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Tags Amega wands , crystals , zero point energy

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Old 26th April 2010, 03:18 PM   #241
Akhenaten
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Driving his Chevy Shillverado down Shilling Blvd, like he was mayor of Shillverton.


You did skepticism proud, but there's only so much one Ferengi can do.

Welcome to the Dark Side.

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Old 3rd May 2010, 11:29 AM   #242
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Hey all,
Wow, it seems there has been much discussion about this "wand". I'm trying to convince my dad to do the bind test but he still insists "no need, it's been proven". He refuses to do a true blind test. I've been so busy that I haven't been looking at this page for weeks. I hope someone really does do the test and lays this silliness to rest.
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Old 3rd May 2010, 03:24 PM   #243
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Lay it to rest? It's been pushing up daisies since February.

Do you really think you'll trick the members of this Forum into taking this stick seriously enough to organise some kind of test? Really?

You're selling these things, mate, so it's pretty much your responsiblity.
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Old 3rd May 2010, 03:39 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
Hey all,
Wow, it seems there has been much discussion about this "wand". I'm trying to convince my dad to do the bind test but he still insists "no need, it's been proven".
His perspective does make sense. Right now, he has a device that reduces his pain. If he took a blinded test that showed that the whole thing was placebo, then he would have nothing. He have less than nothing because he would be out $250. I would guess that he could recoup about half of that by selling it on eBay.

If it is important for you to win the argument, try to convince him that there is $1,000,000 waiting for him if he can pass a couple of blinded tests.


Quote:
He refuses to do a true blind test. I've been so busy that I haven't been looking at this page for weeks. I hope someone really does do the test and lays this silliness to rest.
This silliness will never be laid to rest. There are people who will always desire a mystical healing wand and as long as there are con-artists to sell them, there will be people who buy them.

I have no statistics to back up this assertion, but I believe there are a lot of people over 50 who would choose the wand if given a choice between a goose that laid golden eggs and a wand that heals all illnesses and makes one feel young again.
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Old 6th May 2010, 01:26 AM   #245
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Well I certainly wont be buying another of those geese... that was a right royal rip off!

ETA: DAMMIT!!! I just realised, I bumped this thread.... sorry.
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Old 7th May 2010, 02:27 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
Well I certainly wont be buying another of those geese... that was a right royal rip off!
Can I borrow your wand when you've finished with it...?
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Old 9th May 2010, 11:14 PM   #247
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Selling these?

If I was selling these "wands" I would try to sell them directly because I believe it is some kind of pyramid scheme. So obviously I'm not selling them. So please don't tell me what I am or am not doing. I'm not telling what you are or aren't doing. It seems someone on this thread has bought one, let me know the results. I'm waiting with excitement.

One test that seems popular is wanding lemon slices. Apparently it reduces the acidity. So you could try that test and then have someone taste wanded and unwanded slices.
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Old 9th May 2010, 11:36 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
If I was selling these "wands" I would try to sell them directly because I believe it is some kind of pyramid scheme. So obviously I'm not selling them. So please don't tell me what I am or am not doing.


I won't tell you that you are wasting your time then, or that you are not managing to convince anyone here that these "sticks" have any value.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
I'm not telling what you are or aren't doing.


That's because you don't know.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
It seems someone on this thread has bought one, let me know the results.


No.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
I'm waiting with excitement.


My hovercraft is full of eels.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
One test that seems popular is wanding lemon slices. Apparently it reduces the acidity. So you could try that test and then have someone taste wanded and unwanded slices.


How do you know this? Who are you talking to? Why?
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Old 10th May 2010, 12:02 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
If I was selling these "wands" I would try to sell them directly because I believe it is some kind of pyramid scheme.
You are trying to convince people because it is some kind of pyramid scheme.

Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
So obviously I'm not selling them.
Very clearly wrong.

Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
So please don't tell me what I am or am not doing. I'm not telling what you are or aren't doing.
I'm doing exactly that. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
It seems someone on this thread has bought one, let me know the results. I'm waiting with excitement.
The other shill? He outed himself already.

Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
One test that seems popular is wanding lemon slices. Apparently it reduces the acidity. So you could try that test and then have someone taste wanded and unwanded slices.
In no way whatsoever is that a test. That is a lemon tasting. That is meaningless for your ridiculous piece of junk.
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Old 10th May 2010, 12:15 AM   #250
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Counting down to next unsolicited but very concerned newbie poster testimonial..... 10..... 9..... 8.....
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Old 10th May 2010, 03:46 AM   #251
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much exiting to buy amega wand! i wave over bord and she grow back feathers!!!!! father try on his back and now can run jump and dance where before had no legs.
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Old 10th May 2010, 04:02 AM   #252
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I was blind, and now I can see!


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE



It's a miracle!
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Old 10th May 2010, 06:30 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
One test that seems popular is wanding lemon slices. Apparently it reduces the acidity. So you could try that test and then have someone taste wanded and unwanded slices.
You're the one with the wand - you could easily try a blinded test on this with your dad's wand. Just give him (or someone else) the wanded & unwanded lemon slices without him knowing which is which and ask him which seem most acid.

My opinion on evaluating this product is that it's pointless - because the pseudo-scientific gibberish that is claimed to be the mechanism of action is clearly nonsense. If anything, it 'works' on belief - the placebo effect. Ironically, if they had presented the wand without any claims of how it worked, they would have a (slightly) better case for evaluation.
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Old 10th May 2010, 05:51 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
I won't tell you that you are wasting your time then, or that you are not managing to convince anyone here that these "sticks" have any value.





That's because you don't know.





No.





My hovercraft is full of eels.





How do you know this? Who are you talking to? Why?
I told you my father bought one, this is the test he does to people at his work. My family tried to test the difference between wanded and unwanded lemon slices at a family get together(for fun, because they all think he's crazy). Of course he told them which one was wanded and which one wasn't and it was only a 1 to 1 test, so obviously doesn't meet scientific standards. But this is the test he likes to do. Some of my aunts and cousins said they could taste a difference but I told them it's not a true test. These relatives are very educated and don't lie, however I told them the test needed to be proper. My Father then of course doesn't want to go through with it. So I don't believe it's real, but it is kinda fun watching people's reactions and think it actually does something. Other relatives at the party think it's absurd.
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Old 10th May 2010, 06:16 PM   #255
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I think I also figured out the appropriate equation for this situation.
I'm a skeptical person challenging believers.
Many on this forum are cynical people challenging a skeptic(me).
Remember, our goal is to be skeptical, not cynical. Once we cross that line, we have lost all objectiveness.
FYI, Believe it or not, I am a Christian. This may upset many of you, but I still look to science because I believe that God too must obey the laws of the universe, physics, etc.
These "magic wands" have no place in Christianity and that's why I am particularly interested in proving it false. It's kind of like witchcraft and hocus pocus. I believe there is no such thing until proven otherwise.
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Old 10th May 2010, 06:54 PM   #256
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Fine. It's false. They don't work. Is there any chance you can let this drop now?
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Old 10th May 2010, 08:04 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
I think I also figured out the appropriate equation for this situation.
I'm a skeptical person challenging believers.
Many on this forum are cynical people challenging a skeptic(me).
Remember, our goal is to be skeptical, not cynical. Once we cross that line, we have lost all objectiveness.
FYI, Believe it or not, I am a Christian. This may upset many of you, but I still look to science because I believe that God too must obey the laws of the universe, physics, etc.
These "magic wands" have no place in Christianity and that's why I am particularly interested in proving it false. It's kind of like witchcraft and hocus pocus. I believe there is no such thing until proven otherwise.
And virgin birth, walking on water, coming back from the dead, water to wine, and eating the flesh of the cult leader are right at home in this world where magic wands are taboo? I guess you have proven all of the former true? So you don't believe in the wand or do you? You say you don't, but just keep hinting that it has to be proven false. I don't get it. Prove pixies false first.

Dude, it is up to you to tell us your theory of the wand. How it could possibly work, what mechanism is involved...the physics of it. Otherwise you look pretty silly when you keep going on about it. Do you just believe anything anyone tells you? I have magic fairies under my bed! Believe that? Some people look at the entrails of chickens to predict the future. Sound reasonable?

So how does this magic wand work? Energy, vibrations, frequency, resonance....take your pick. All nonsense. Do you believe in dowsing too? Noah's ark? Jonah and the whale?

You get to believe whatever you want. Just don't expect sane people to go along with you.

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Old 10th May 2010, 08:12 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
I think I also figured out the appropriate equation for this situation.
I'm a skeptical person challenging believers.
Many on this forum are cynical people challenging a skeptic(me).
Remember, our goal is to be skeptical, not cynical. Once we cross that line, we have lost all objectiveness.
FYI, Believe it or not, I am a Christian. This may upset many of you, but I still look to science because I believe that God too must obey the laws of the universe, physics, etc.
These "magic wands" have no place in Christianity and that's why I am particularly interested in proving it false. It's kind of like witchcraft and hocus pocus. I believe there is no such thing until proven otherwise.
See Sledge's advice. Go dally in another thread. You'll never convince certain, um, musty old dead Pharoahs of certain things. You'll be okay once you make a few other posts in areas that interest you. (We have a number of Christian skeptics on board; we're not formally an Atheist Organization.)

But we have a history of posters who make their first post on a subject just to get hits on their website or spread the word on their exciting new MLM opportunity. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as you don't seem to follow that pattern. Prove me right. Have the sense to just let this thread peter off (oh gawd, did I just use "peter" in a JREF thread?) into oblivion where it belongs. Quite a few of our regulars here went through the baptism under fire of being "spotted" for a woo when they first arrived. Pay it never no mind, we're a little bit on the paranoid side, sometimes. What? Paranoid? No? Not really? Behind me? Are you sure?
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Old 10th May 2010, 10:46 PM   #259
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A while back I requested that someone tell me what you would accept as evidence of the efficacy of the wands. (It was either this thread or one from a different bulletin board - I just don't recall.)

I haven't done my part in regards to that.

I couldn't get the nerve to ask people to allow me to videotape them. This lack of nerve occurred partly because my first neighbor, the one with Alzheimer's, would not allow me to wand her. She was dead set against the whole wanding concept. So I didn't want to blow my chances of being able to work with my other neighbors by introducing the video aspect.

My second neighbor did experience dramatic improvement in her pain levels from vascular necrosis of the hips and severe osteoporosis of the L-5 spine. with about 20 minutes of wanding. On the second day her pain came back, but then her pain has gradually lessened again.

My third neighbor with moderately advanced Parkinsons, showed zero improvement in the first 3 days. On the fourth day, his tremors had stopped the whole time I was there.

Between the 4th and 5th days he had an endoscopy with anesthesia or whatever it is they use to put the patient to sleep. I was afraid he would regress from the stress and irritation.

But on my fifth visit, his tremors were still gone. He said he had some earlier in the morning. Previously he had tremors almost constantly.

After the 5th visit, he still had the Parkinson's leg slide. But four days later, I saw him walking from his car to his apartment. He was back to driving. He walked like a normal person, rather quickly actually, with no evidence of his condition in his legs or arms.

I saw him the next day in his car when I pulled into the grocery store parking lot. He held his arm out in front of me parallel to the ground. There were no tremors.

His speech had improved to where he could say three words in succession with only a one or two second delay before starting to speak. A week earlier, it took him 10-15 seconds to utter a single word at a time.

I haven't seen him in the last five days, so I don't know if he has gotten better or worse.

I wanded a woman who lot her eyesight 7 years ago from a reaction to a medication (Topherol?) Her irises were frozen open as a result, so that she experienced light as constant bright flood lamps up against her eyes. This causes her to have excruciating pain and monthly migraine intensity level headaches particularly when her period comes.

After the second session, she experienced a lot of pain for about 24 hours.

After two sessions of 10 to 20 minutes, she is now able to go outside with only one pair of sunglasses AND to keep her eyelids open, something she couldn't do before. Sometimes when she is inside, she will take off the other sunglasses.

She also has repeated fluid build up and blisters on her eyeballs especially from pollen, and the like. This time, however, her blisters did not fill up with fluid. In fact, she could not feel her blisters at all.

Her period came with no headache. She was able to wand herself a third time on Saturday, about 10 days after the other two wandings. (She lives about 200 miles from me, so we can only do this when one of us is visiting the other.)

For the third wanding, she mostly used it to quell her monthly cramps. She said it worked. She didn't wand her eyes much because she didn't want a replay of the temporary worse feelings in her eyes since we had important work to do that day.

All in all, I'm finding that these episodes are making an impression on those around them as it has on me.

I've been able to stand for ten minutes without cause for worry when before I could only stand for 1 minute at a time due to a combination of back problems and arthritis.

It's pretty clear to me that it would take a great deal of my time to persuade those of you who come here. It's my fault because I'm just not willing to take the time or maybe it's because I don't have the nerve to try to persuade those who are sick and vulnerable and perhaps embarrassed about how they look, etc.

Given that I only have so much time and assertiveness, I'd rather work with the people who are emenable to what they experience. In the short and long run, I can reach ten times as many people that way, perhaps a thousand times as many.

Someday, someone else with more skill will surely give you the data you need. For your sake, I hope that is sooner rather than later. Each person has their own criteria before they are persuaded to a new idea. I am already convinced. You will be, too, when your standards are met.

Until then, happy skepticism!

Last edited by Wanderer; 10th May 2010 at 10:48 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10th May 2010, 11:43 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
A while back I requested that someone tell me what you would accept as evidence of the efficacy of the wands. (It was either this thread or one from a different bulletin board - I just don't recall.)
Why can't you recall? Do you go around plugging this LiarStickTM on every forum you can find?


Quote:
I haven't done my part in regards to that.
So you'll have nothing to report, then. Oh, wait.........

Quote:
I couldn't get the nerve to ask people to allow me to videotape them. This lack of nerve occurred partly because my first neighbor, the one with Alzheimer's, would not allow me to wand her. She was dead set against the whole wanding concept. So I didn't want to blow my chances of being able to work with my other neighbors by introducing the video aspect.
Horsecrap! She's got Alzheimer's. So does my mother-in-law. She won't remember tomorrow that she told you she was against it today. And naturally, since Neighbor A is against wanding, that means that the other neighbors will be against video taping. Yeah, I can see the logic in reaching that conclusion.

Quote:
My second neighbor did experience dramatic improvement in her pain levels from vascular necrosis of the hips and severe osteoporosis of the L-5 spine. with about 20 minutes of wanding. On the second day her pain came back, but then her pain has gradually lessened again.
And you have proof of this, of course. Why, no! In fact, we just have to take your word for it. That's because we know you for such a long time and have such a meaningful relationship with you, I guess. (Why is it I see an old dead pharoah in your future?)

Quote:
My third neighbor with moderately advanced Parkinsons, showed zero improvement in the first 3 days. On the fourth day, his tremors had stopped the whole time I was there.
And again, you have the proof of this? No? Why am I not surprised? We'll just have to take your word for it..... again?
Do you think people with Parkinsons shake non-stop 24/7? If you do, you're mistaken. And we're to believe that this LiarStickTM is actually curing Parkinsons? Why, no, you're not going to be dumb enough to state that because that could actually get your scamming butt investigated, couldn't it?

Quote:
Between the 4th and 5th days he had an endoscopy with anesthesia or whatever it is they use to put the patient to sleep. I was afraid he would regress from the stress and irritation.

But on my fifth visit, his tremors were still gone. He said he had some earlier in the morning. Previously he had tremors almost constantly.
You're probably all prepared for my question, here, right?
Your proof of this? That would be in your word and bond as a Certified Woo LiarStickTM Therapist?

Quote:
After the 5th visit, he still had the Parkinson's leg slide. But four days later, I saw him walking from his car to his apartment. He was back to driving. He walked like a normal person, rather quickly actually, with no evidence of his condition in his legs or arms.
Ho hum! Your proof of this event? You only saw him walking from his car to his apartment? You don't happen to have a long lens for your camera, do you? You could've actually filmed this without him or your other neighbors knowing it.
But ya didn't, didja? And all we have to go by is your word?

Quote:
I saw him the next day in his car when I pulled into the grocery store parking lot. He held his arm out in front of me parallel to the ground. There were no tremors.
<snip> blah blah blah blah blah... bunch of worthless anecdotal testimony from an anonymous poster on the interwebs

Quote:
I wanded a woman who lot her eyesight 7 years ago from a reaction to a medication (Topherol?) Her irises were frozen open as a result, so that she experienced light as constant bright flood lamps up against her eyes. This causes her to have excruciating pain and monthly migraine intensity level headaches particularly when her period comes.

After the second session, she experienced a lot of pain for about 24 hours.

After two sessions of 10 to 20 minutes, she is now able to go outside with only one pair of sunglasses AND to keep her eyelids open, something she couldn't do before. Sometimes when she is inside, she will take off the other sunglasses.

She also has repeated fluid build up and blisters on her eyeballs especially from pollen, and the like. This time, however, her blisters did not fill up with fluid. In fact, she could not feel her blisters at all.

Her period came with no headache. She was able to wand herself a third time on Saturday, about 10 days after the other two wandings. (She lives about 200 miles from me, so we can only do this when one of us is visiting the other.)

For the third wanding, she mostly used it to quell her monthly cramps. She said it worked. She didn't wand her eyes much because she didn't want a replay of the temporary worse feelings in her eyes since we had important work to do that day.
This is just another quilt of lies. You have proof of this? I want to see proof. I do not want you to go away. I want you to stay right here with this merry band of skeptics and sceptics and convince us. You can't, of course, but I want to keep you away from the more gullible sites where you might actually harm people with these lies.

Quote:
All in all, I'm finding that these episodes are making an impression on those around them as it has on me.
Lies. The viral spread of information on this from person to person would've been so fast that it would've circled the globe four times over since the first reports of this LiarStickTM And you know the only place you see such information? You got it.... Woo sites on the internet and trolls/spammers trying to sucker people into buying a rung on their pyramid.

Quote:
I've been able to stand for ten minutes without cause for worry when before I could only stand for 1 minute at a time due to a combination of back problems and arthritis.
Well, you certainly can't have any objection to videotaping yourself, can you? Just get to work, then!

Quote:
It's pretty clear to me that it would take a great deal of my time to persuade those of you who come here. It's my fault because I'm just not willing to take the time or maybe it's because I don't have the nerve to try to persuade those who are sick and vulnerable and perhaps embarrassed about how they look, etc.
The nerve? To convince yourself to be videoed(viddy-owed) filmed? You ought to surely be able to convince yourself? Why you're trying to convince us to buy into this scam - and doing a wonderful job of it, too! So I'll bet you can sell yourself if you just work on it a little harder.
And, of course, you could just give us copy of your medical records that show that you actually have/had these conditions you purport to have cured.
Quote:
Given that I only have so much time and assertiveness, I'd rather work with the people who are emenable to what they experience. In the short and long run, I can reach ten times as many people that way, perhaps a thousand times as many.
Nonsense. Want the translation to that? "I'm looking for gullible suckers." How can you reach those people if you can't even convince a woman with Alzheimer's to allow you to wand her, come up with the courage to ask your other neighbors to be filmed, or convince yourself to present your evidence of your own miracle cure? You're spinning a web of lies.

Quote:
Someday, someone else with more skill will surely give you the data you need. For your sake, I hope that is sooner rather than later. Each person has their own criteria before they are persuaded to a new idea. I am already convinced. You will be, too, when your standards are met.
So, you have such a person as your "diamond" in this pyramid scheme/scam? Send him or her over. Must be real convincing, eh? Why look how they convinced you, what with all your critical thinking credentials.

Quote:
Until then, happy skepticism!
You're quite welcome. Come back any time. This has been a casual debunking brought to you by Foolmewunz Leisure Services Ltd. Had this been an actual debunking, I'd have called out the doctors and scientists, but this amateur spamming doesn't merit the big guns.
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Old 11th May 2010, 02:58 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I couldn't get the nerve to ask people to allow me to videotape them.
Try waving the wand over your groin until you grow huge, plentiful balls.
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Old 11th May 2010, 04:04 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
I told you my father bought one, this is the test he does to people at his work. My family tried to test the difference between wanded and unwanded lemon slices at a family get together(for fun, because they all think he's crazy).


Your family has a strange idea of fun party games, however, I can certainly support some of their judgements.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
Of course he told them which one was wanded and which one wasn't and it was only a 1 to 1 test, so obviously doesn't meet scientific standards.


Or, in fact, any meaningful standard at all. What the devil is a "1 to 1 test" anyway?


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
But this is the test he likes to do. Some of my aunts and cousins said they could taste a difference but I told them it's not a true test.


Aren't they lucky to have you there, keeping them on the straight and narrow? Goodness knows what might have happened otherwise.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
These relatives are very educated and don't lie, however I told them the test needed to be proper.


Very educated ≠ honest. Surely you know this.

Nor is an education any kind of safeguard against confirmation bias, although I might have thought that very educated people would not need to be told this. Again, they sure are lucky you were there.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
My Father then of course doesn't want to go through with it. So I don't believe it's real, but it is kinda fun watching people's reactions and think it actually does something. Other relatives at the party think it's absurd.


Multiple anecdotes are boring enough but repeating this same one over and over is really, really wearing thin. I'm sure we all get the point, whatever it is.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
I think I also figured out the appropriate equation for this situation.


Me too, months ago. Here it is:

Probability of a stick changing the acidity of a lemon = 0

Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
I'm a skeptical person challenging believers.


Umm . . .


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
Many on this forum are cynical people challenging a skeptic(me).


You worked this out all by yourself? Astounding!

No question about there being some wicked, nasty cynics about, but I think you might need to review your working definition of 'skeptic'.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
Remember, our goal is to be skeptical, not cynical. Once we cross that line, we have lost all objectiveness.


Not quite, Kemo Sabe. 'Our' goals might not be unilateral as you think.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
FYI, Believe it or not, I am a Christian.


No strain on my credulity whatsoever, as a matter of fact.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
This may upset many of you, but I still look to science because I believe that God too must obey the laws of the universe, physics, etc.


Nothing like having a quid each way, is there? Unfortunately for you, you're eventually going to have to pick one and only one of these mutually exclusive possibilities.
Protip: The laws of physics can be shown to work. God, not at all.

Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
These "magic wands" have no place in Christianity and that's why I am particularly interested in proving it false. It's kind of like witchcraft and hocus pocus.


You appear to be saying that your belief in magic sky fairies prevents you from believing in magic sticks.

I don't see how you're any better off one way or the other.


Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
I believe there is no such thing until proven otherwise.


Like wow, that's really deep, man.
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Old 11th May 2010, 04:14 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
See Sledge's advice.


Seconded.


Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Go dally in another thread. You'll never convince certain, um, musty old dead Pharoahs of certain things.


I'm not dead yet! Apart from that, no argument.




Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
You'll be okay once you make a few other posts in areas that interest you.


Okay-er, at least. Good advice though, no question.


Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
(We have a number of Christian skeptics on board; we're not formally an Atheist Organization.)


I've even identified a few Osirists. They're only a bit skeptical though.


Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
But we have a history of posters who make their first post on a subject just to get hits on their website or spread the word on their exciting new MLM opportunity. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as you don't seem to follow that pattern. Prove me right. Have the sense to just let this thread peter off (oh gawd, did I just use "peter" in a JREF thread?) into oblivion where it belongs. Quite a few of our regulars here went through the baptism under fire of being "spotted" for a woo when they first arrived. Pay it never no mind, we're a little bit on the paranoid side, sometimes. What? Paranoid? No? Not really? Behind me? Are you sure?


Wise words and good advice.

Yes, behind you. Don't look!!!
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Old 11th May 2010, 04:44 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by alawaiman View Post
... I believe that God too must obey the laws of the universe, physics, etc.
WTF? How does that make sense? You could start a thread on this in Religion & Philosophy...
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Old 11th May 2010, 05:12 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Given that I only have so much time and assertiveness, I'd rather work with the people who are emenable to what they experience. In the short and long run, I can reach ten times as many people that way, perhaps a thousand times as many.

Someday, someone else with more skill will surely give you the data you need. For your sake, I hope that is sooner rather than later. Each person has their own criteria before they are persuaded to a new idea. I am already convinced. You will be, too, when your standards are met.

Until then, happy skepticism!
The problem is that people are influenced by their expectations. We all are, and there is no way to avoid this. If we expect to have less pain, we will report less pain. This expectation also has been shown to alter how we remember our prior symptoms. We remember our pain before we received relief as worse than it really was. All the evaluations you presented to us were simply based on your subjective impressions and the subjective impressions of your neighbours - exactly the kind of evaluations which will be altered by expectation. Also, you chose measures which are not valid. For example, the tremors from Parkinson's Disease are decreased or absent when they hold out their hands, so the absence of tremors when your neighbour held his hands out would be expected.

It's not that we need to have these experiences in order to be convinced, it's that we realize that the kind of experiences you describe are an unreliable way to be convinced, since our minds will inevitably fool us under these circumstances.

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Old 11th May 2010, 05:15 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
A while back I requested that someone tell me what you would accept as evidence of the efficacy of the wands. (It was either this thread or one from a different bulletin board - I just don't recall.)


Not a good look, for a number of reasons.


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I haven't done my part in regards to that.


If you mean that you haven't even bothered to check your posts in this thread to see whether you've asked your question, then no, you haven't

If you mean that you haven't done much to avoid the apearance of being a multi-site spammer then no, you double haven't.

Looking worse by the minute, isn't it?


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I couldn't get the nerve to ask people to allow me to videotape them. This lack of nerve occurred partly because my first neighbor, the one with Alzheimer's, would not allow me to wand her. She was dead set against the whole wanding concept. So I didn't want to blow my chances of being able to work with my other neighbors by introducing the video aspect.


I like your neighbour, and I note that apparently her Alzheimer's doesn't keep her from seeing the obvious thing that you are missing. Does that concern you at all?


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
My second neighbor did experience dramatic improvement in her pain levels from vascular necrosis of the hips and severe osteoporosis of the L-5 spine. with about 20 minutes of wanding. On the second day her pain came back, but then her pain has gradually lessened again.


I'm going to abandon the Cynic's Code™ for a second and not deny outright that this happened. I'll content myself with pointing out that correlation ≠ causation.


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
My third neighbor with moderately advanced Parkinsons, showed zero improvement in the first 3 days. On the fourth day, his tremors had stopped the whole time I was there.

Between the 4th and 5th days he had an endoscopy with anesthesia or whatever it is they use to put the patient to sleep. I was afraid he would regress from the stress and irritation.

But on my fifth visit, his tremors were still gone. He said he had some earlier in the morning. Previously he had tremors almost constantly.

After the 5th visit, he still had the Parkinson's leg slide. But four days later, I saw him walking from his car to his apartment. He was back to driving. He walked like a normal person, rather quickly actually, with no evidence of his condition in his legs or arms.

I saw him the next day in his car when I pulled into the grocery store parking lot. He held his arm out in front of me parallel to the ground. There were no tremors.

His speech had improved to where he could say three words in succession with only a one or two second delay before starting to speak. A week earlier, it took him 10-15 seconds to utter a single word at a time.

I haven't seen him in the last five days, so I don't know if he has gotten better or worse.


According to the evidence at hand, none of this happened.


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I wanded a woman who lot her eyesight 7 years ago from a reaction to a medication (Topherol?) Her irises were frozen open as a result, so that she experienced light as constant bright flood lamps up against her eyes. This causes her to have excruciating pain and monthly migraine intensity level headaches particularly when her period comes.

After the second session, she experienced a lot of pain for about 24 hours.

After two sessions of 10 to 20 minutes, she is now able to go outside with only one pair of sunglasses AND to keep her eyelids open, something she couldn't do before. Sometimes when she is inside, she will take off the other sunglasses.

She also has repeated fluid build up and blisters on her eyeballs especially from pollen, and the like. This time, however, her blisters did not fill up with fluid. In fact, she could not feel her blisters at all.

Her period came with no headache. She was able to wand herself a third time on Saturday, about 10 days after the other two wandings. (She lives about 200 miles from me, so we can only do this when one of us is visiting the other.)

For the third wanding, she mostly used it to quell her monthly cramps. She said it worked. She didn't wand her eyes much because she didn't want a replay of the temporary worse feelings in her eyes since we had important work to do that day.


Utter rubbish. At least make up something marginally believable, will you? This is just insulting.


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
All in all, I'm finding that these episodes are making an impression on those around them as it has on me.


Me too. I'm getting the impression that the whole lot of this nonsense is a complete fabrication.


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I've been able to stand for ten minutes without cause for worry when before I could only stand for 1 minute at a time due to a combination of back problems and arthritis.


I'm surprised you're doing such an amazing job as the neighbourhood healer given the extent of your own disabilty.

In fact, I don't believe a word of it.


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
It's pretty clear to me that it would take a great deal of my time to persuade those of you who come here. It's my fault because I'm just not willing to take the time or maybe it's because I don't have the nerve to try to persuade those who are sick and vulnerable and perhaps embarrassed about how they look, etc.


No amount of time will help you make your case. No amount of personal courage will help either.

What you need is some of that evidence stuff that the skeptics like so much.


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Given that I only have so much time and assertiveness, I'd rather work with the people who are emenable to what they experience. In the short and long run, I can reach ten times as many people that way, perhaps a thousand times as many.


You really are just a spammer, aren't you?


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Someday, someone else with more skill will surely give you the data you need. For your sake, I hope that is sooner rather than later. Each person has their own criteria before they are persuaded to a new idea. I am already convinced. You will be, too, when your standards are met.


Why on Earth did you even post all this nonsense? Was there any purpose at all?


Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Until then, happy skepticism!


No way, José.
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Old 11th May 2010, 07:20 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Someday, someone else with more skill will surely give you the data you need. For your sake, I hope that is sooner rather than later. Each person has their own criteria before they are persuaded to a new idea. I am already convinced. You will be, too, when your standards are met.

Until then, happy skepticism!
You have produced not one shred of evidence. It has been repeated explained in this thread that unless it is a double blind test, then it has absolutely no evidentiary value.

I'll cut to the chase. One million dollars awaits you if you can repeat those exact stories under controlled conditions. You don't even have to repeat them with those people. Simply having someone recognize the difference between a magical wand and a regular wand will earn you 7 figures.

Here is the part where you explain that you have no use for $1,000,000. Have at it.
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Old 11th May 2010, 07:22 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
A while back I requested that someone tell me what you would accept as evidence of the efficacy of the wands. (It was either this thread or one from a different bulletin board - I just don't recall.)

....<snip anecdotes>
Someday, someone else with more skill will surely give you the data you need. For your sake, I hope that is sooner rather than later. Each person has their own criteria before they are persuaded to a new idea. I am already convinced. You will be, too, when your standards are met.

Until then, happy skepticism!
Looks like it was just 3 days and 6 posts ago. Try wanding the temporal lobes, short term memory. You are convinced by nothing more than coincidence.

Question: Why have these folks you describe in the various anecdotes not bought wands if they are so effective?

Question: Why is your avatar name "WAND-erer"? Coincidence?

Question: What is your hypothesis to explain how the wand works. What principle does it use? Which of the 4 forces of nature is at play?
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Old 11th May 2010, 04:17 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Counting down to next unsolicited but very concerned newbie poster testimonial..... 10..... 9..... 8.....
Can I go for half-a-million of the challenge? It was a mere 22 hours, after all.
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Old 11th May 2010, 10:15 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Can I go for half-a-million of the challenge? It was a mere 22 hours, after all.

I say "Go for it!"

Do we count as academics for affadavit-signing purposes (I went to school once) and this Forum as 'Media Presence'?

It's amazing how much better the sceptics (and cynics) are at these predictions than the woos are. Quite ironic.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 06:21 PM   #271
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Hello all,

I've been a card carrying member of JREF (and CSICOP) for several years, but just wandered (slight pun indented) into this forum for the first time in search for discussions on this very topic - the Amega AMWand.

As a brief intro, I've been a consumer advocate, or "watchdog", serving the direct sales industry since 1990. I am currently one of only seven "court certified" experts in the field of multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes (there is a distinction, but I will not digress). Inquiring minds may Google my company, MarketWave, Inc., if you want more details as to who I am and my agenda for being here.

I am also working on an article and video documentary regarding Amega's wand. I am, of course, quite skeptical. However, I do intend to perform a number of well designed tests (controlled, double blinded) and will pragmatically report what ever the results are.

To that end, I'd love to get some feedback on what type of tests I can perform and how I should properly set them up. For example, I think I've got the "lemon test" figured out. Notice, the lemon half that's wanded is always known to the subject, and always the first half that's handed to them to taste. Try this at home: Take a bite from two slices of lemon about 15 seconds apart. The first half will almost always taste better - with or without wanding. My test will prevent the subject from knowing which half has been wanded, will alternate which half is tasted first, and I will be out of view from the subject to eliminate any subtle, subconscious cues.

I already know the kinesthetic trick behind the strength tests (Randi exposes them well on YouTube) and how to conduct those tests. But what would be some other good tests to perform, and how?

Thanks.

Len Clements
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Old 23rd May 2010, 03:54 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by MWave View Post
Hello all,

<snip>

Thanks.

Len Clements


Hello Len.

Care to explain these links?

Quatloos

The Fraud Files Blog

The Fraud Files Blog again

OneUnites.com

Also, what can you tell us about Yoli.


Thanks.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 04:05 AM   #273
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Your idea of googling the name Len Clements leaves me breathless with envy, my Pharaoh.

(Actually it just shows that I should get out on the internet more often)
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Old 23rd May 2010, 04:31 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Maybe he felt that at least one response was too hostile to merit sticking around.
But that's his own fault for not lurking for a year before posting!
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Old 23rd May 2010, 05:28 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Hello Len.

Care to explain these links?
Quatloos

The Fraud Files Blog

The Fraud Files Blog again

OneUnites.com
Also, what can you tell us about Yoli.


Thanks.
Indeed, I immediately smelled fish (or was it squid?) when I read Len's post last night.
What better way to fake a test to sell a scam to someone than by being able to claim the test was suggested by the JREF?

I maybe wrong, time will tell and if history is correct Len will soon be back to either clear his name or dig his grave.

Enquiring minds (at Squid Fishing Monthly) need to know.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 09:17 AM   #276
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The Amega Wand seems to have an incredible power to draw drive-by woos to a thread.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 09:40 AM   #277
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I've got to know.

Originally Posted by MWave View Post
I am currently one of only seven "court certified" experts in the field of multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes (there is a distinction, but I will not digress).
1) Why the quotation marks? Are you using them for emphasis to highlight your legal status or are you using them to show that you do not have any real legal status?

2) If the former, how did you get certification? Is it like engineering expert witness certification in which there is a governing body that provides this certification?

3) Who are the other six?

4) Does this certification apply to both federal and state courts?
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Old 23rd May 2010, 10:15 AM   #278
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Wanderer:
Quote:
It's pretty clear to me that it would take a great deal of my time to persuade those of you who come here. It's my fault because I'm just not willing to take the time or maybe it's because I don't have the nerve to try to persuade those who are sick and vulnerable and perhaps embarrassed about how they look, etc.
It would take hardly any time at all.

Simply arrange for a group of people with different kinds of pain from bunions to hangnails, to be administered to with the wand .. ( half of them with a shish kebab disguised to look like the wand )

Neither the people or the operators would know which is the real wand ..

Collect the million $$ ..

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Old 23rd May 2010, 11:04 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Hello Len.

Care to explain these links?

quatloos.com...

sequenceinc.com.../len-clements-usana-distributor-with-seasoned-associate-number

sequenceinc.com...pressing-questions-for-mlm-supporter-len-clements

oneunites.com...Learn-How-to-Up-Your-Income-The-Len-Clements

Also, what can you tell us about Yoli.

Thanks.
Normally I'd take offense to this cynical guilty until proven innocent approach, buy hey, it's a skeptics forum, which is likely full of skeptics. So I'll indulge this for one round. Then I hope you all might actually try to assist me.

Quatloos, as I'm sure most of you know, is a haven for haters, anti-MLM zealots, and run of the mill internet trolls. Surely no one here actually considers this forum a credible source of information. Yes? And yes, I've recently been made an admin of the Scam.com board as part of the owner's and other moderator's efforts to clean out all the anonymous haters and trolls and actually make it what it's suppose to be - a forum to expose scams.

Tracy Coenen (Sequenceinc.com) is a cohort of Barry Minkow (Google him). The two links you provided refers to propaganda posted on Usana's Yahoo stock board by Steve Rotolante (alias terminatedramp - a name he came up with to proudly declare his account had previously been terminated by Yahoo) who is also an accomplice in Minkow's stock shorting scheme, and who hates me because I keep exposing his lies and mistakes. Coenen just took what ever garbage Rotolante posted and repeated it in her blog. When I went in to refute these claims and provide verifiable facts to support my rebuttal, Coanan, who claims to be a devout advocate of freedom of speech and defender of the First Amendment, deleted my responses and blocked my ability to comment on any of her blog entries.

As for oneunites.com, although I appreciate her promotion of me and my company, I have no idea who this person is, and have nothing what-so-ever to do with her lead generation program.

In the process of exposing scams and frauds over the last 20 years I have pissed a lot of people off. I'm sure you'll find a lot of their rantings on line.

If you want to know who I am and why I'm here, why not post links to the schemes I've exposed and/or criticized? There are numerous examples on my website. Apparently I can't post links here until I've posted 15 times (odd rule), so just add these extensions to a URL that begins with MarketWaveInc.com...

/viewalert.asp?id=129
/viewalert.asp?id=121
/viewalert.asp?id=102
/viewalert.asp?id=96
/viewalert.asp?id=87
/viewalert.asp?id=85
/viewalert.asp?id=73
/viewalert.asp?id=70
/viewalert.asp?id=67
/viewalert.asp?id=16
/viewarticle.asp?id=3
/viewarticle.asp?id=2
/viewarticle.asp?id=44
/viewarticle.asp?id=38
/viewarticle.asp?id=24
/viewarticle.asp?id=27
/viewarticle.asp?id=15
/viewarticle.asp?id=12
/viewarticle.asp?id=45

While doing your online investigation of me, you might also want to start by taking a look at the legal case list on my resume here:

marketwaveinc.com/about.asp

You'll find that in most cases I've testified against MLM companies, including three cases on behalf of distributor plaintiffs against Equinox, one of the largest and most notorious pyramid schemes.

As I said, I'm extremely skeptical of the Amega wand. My intention is to expose it as a fraud. However, I will not slant the data. What ever it shows is what I will report. That's why I want to make sure I design and conduct tests that cannot "validate" the wand due to the placebo effect or kinesthetic tricks.

If I'm in the wrong place, no problem. I'll leave. Just let me know.

Len

Last edited by MWave; 23rd May 2010 at 11:08 AM. Reason: Typos
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Old 23rd May 2010, 11:24 AM   #280
MWave
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I've got to know.

1) Why the quotation marks? Are you using them for emphasis to highlight your legal status or are you using them to show that you do not have any real legal status?

2) If the former, how did you get certification? Is it like engineering expert witness certification in which there is a governing body that provides this certification?

3) Who are the other six?

4) Does this certification apply to both federal and state courts?
1) Because it is very common for people, especially within the MLM industry, to refer to themselves as "experts". I prefer to distinguish myself as a "court certified" expert. That is, I've been deemed as such by a person or organization of authority to make such a declaration (in this case a judge in a court of law).

2) It is difficult to be declared an "expert" in something that there is no post graduate degree in, which often times can make such a designation virtually automatic and uncontested in a court of law. In my case, the opposing council made a case to the judge that I was not an expert in my field, and the attorney for the side I was to represent made a case that I was. The judge ultimately rules that I was. Usually, if you've been designated as an expert once it's never again contested. In my case, again due to the field of my expertise (multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes), I was contested a second time and again was deemed an expert by a judge and allowed to testify as such in a jury trial. It is no longer contested.

3) To my knowledge, Rod Cook, Keith Laggos, Charles King, Mike Sheffield, Gerald Nehra, and Debbi Ballard. There are a few others who are still living but are no longer active in this field.

4) Yes.

Len
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