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Old 4th March 2010, 06:58 AM   #1
ref
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9/11 Truth: Now or Never? A Look Through Nine Years of TM Claims, Releases and Media

I have done something similar before. I have written about the history of 9/11 claims, made a timeline, etc. This time, however, I combined a couple of my earlier works, analysed each year more carefully, and took a look at what exactly have the truthers achieved. And where are they going. I have already given up debunking some while ago, so to me it's interesting to take one more look at what this has been all about. This is very possibly the last piece I will ever write here, so here goes.

I start with the year-by-year analysis. First there is a short introduction to each year. Then I have included the notable book and DVD releases, as well as several website launches. Later I have listed notable claims that emerged in the particular year. Finally, each year I present the notable media coverage the truth claims have received.

At the end of the article there is more analysis of the entire 9 years. But first, let's start from the beginning.


2001

In 2001 there were no book or video releases. This was the time of short articles, multiple new claims, and time when the foundation for the entire movement was built. Main focus was to show 9/11 was an inside job.

Notable claims that emerged in 2001: Controlled demolition, NORAD stand-down, Remote controlled planes, No hijackers involved, Downplaying of Hani Hanjour's piloting skills, Global Hawk at Pentagon, Passports found almost intact are fake, Flight 93 was shot down, Atta's luggage findings are fake, 8 mile debris area at Shanksville is suspicious, No Arabs on the passenger lists, Bin Laden video is fake, Jet fuel can’t melt steel, Black smoke indicates a died down fire either low on temperature or starved for oxygen, Falling into own footprint, The tops of the towers should have toppled over, Everything has to fail simultaneously (WTC towers), First fire-collapses in the history of tall city buildings, Pulverized concrete, The core should have been left standing, Design loads (the towers should have been able to support the weight), Insider trading and put options, 9/11 was a US government false flag operation (Operation Northwoods), etc.



2002

2002 was the year of the huge success of Thierry Meyssan. His first book was an international success, and he very quickly followed with a second book on the same subject. His books sold hundreds of thousands of copies, and were widely translated to other languages. The focus was largely on Pentagon.

March 2002: Thierry Meyssan releases the book 9/11: The Big Lie
June 2002: Thierry Meyssan releases the book The Pentagate
September 2002: Eric Hufschmid releases the book Painful Questions and soon later a DVD Painful Deceptions

Notable claims that emerged in 2002: WTC 7 demolition & squibs, Collapses at free-fall speeds, A cruise missile and no plane at the Pentagon, Osama Bin Laden is a fabrication of US intelligence, No film footage of the Pentagon explosion exists, Eyewitness testimonies of the Pentagon crash are suspicious or contradictory or flatly incredible, Pentagon photos offer no evidence of the debris typical of an airplane crash, The area of destruction to the Pentagon is impossibly small given the size and span of the craft, Plane swaps, Voice simulation used to fake the phone calls, "Mom, this is Mark Bingham." -line is fake, The low passenger count on each flight is suspicious, POD theory, Seismic evidence contradicts the official story, Pyroclastic flows, Other than just conventional explosives were used, Thermite, WTC Nukes, Many of the hijackers are alive, no planes at WTC, etc.

Notable media coverage:
French TV channels
Time Magazine


2003

In 2003 the conspiracy theories continued to sell well in Europe. Andreas Von Bülow's book was a best seller in Germany, selling over 100 000 copies. In a German poll 31% of people under 30 years old believed the USG was behing the attacks. Germany's leading newsmagazine, Der Spiegel, ran a cover story, giving a point-by-point rebuttal to the most widely spread myths, and another leading newspaper, the Suddeutsche Zeitung in Munich, published a lengthy piece ridiculing the ideas. Also in Italy and Spain, authors hit the bestseller charts by claiming that the U.S. was hiding the truth about 9/11. Canadian TV company CBC airs a program titled "The fifth estate: Conspiracy Theories"

Middle of 2003: Jim Hoffman lauches first of his three 9/11 sites
June 2003: Andreas Von Bülow releases the book The CIA and September 11
Multiple other book releases in different countries.

Notable claims that emerged in 2003: The infamous "Pull It" claim.

Notable media coverage:
Germany's leading broadcaster ARD
Der Spiegel
Suddeutsche Zeitung
CBC


2004

In 2004 the truth movement started to get mainstream coverage also in the US. There was dissatifaction with the 9/11 commission, and the first demands for a new independent investigation were made. A commonly made reference was to a Zogby poll, which indicated that nearly a half of NYC residents believed the government had foreknowledge of the attacks.

January 2004: Movie In Plane Site released
March 2004: David Ray Griffin releases the book New Pearl Harbor
June 2004: Website 911truth.org launches
October 2004: Michael Ruppert releases the book Crossing The Rubicon
November 2004: David Ray Griffin releases the book The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions

Notable claims that emerged in 2004: William Rodriguez basement explosion claims, 9/11 Commission Report is a whitewash. Underwriters' Laboratories certified the WTC steel.

Notable media coverage (excluding major newspaper ad-campaigns):
ABC News
NY Times
CNN: Anderson Cooper Show


2005

In 2005 the truth movement was dissatisfied with the report from NIST. The prominent truthers were getting some mainstream attention in the US. For example, David Ray Griffin was interviewed by the LA Times, and Steven Jones appeared on MSNBC.

March 2005: Webster Tarpley releases the book 9/11: Synthetic Terror
April 2005: The movie Loose Change is released
April 2005: Website 911blogger.com launches
June 2005: Alex Jones releases a DVD Martial Law 9/11: Rise of the Police State
December 2005: The movie Loose Change 2nd Edition is released

Notable claims that emerged in 2005: The NIST Report on the WTC towers is a whitewash.

Notable media coverage:
LA Times
MSNBC


2006

In 2006 the 9/11 truth really broke through, largely thanks to Loose Change 2nd Edition released in late 2005. The movie was aired on television in 12 countries in 2006. Vanity Fair releases an article featuring the Loose Change creators. Charlie Sheen gets a lot of media coverage, including CNN and FOX, for claiming 9/11 was an inside job. The truther gatherings also start getting media attention. The attendance of NYC anniversary truther gathering was at it's peak.

February 2006: The Scholars for 9/11 Truth is formed
June 2006: Alex Jones releases the DVD Terrorstorm
Sept 2006: The movie 9/11 Mysteries is released
Sept 2006: The movie 9/11: Press for Truth is released
October 2006: Website pilotsfor911truth.org launches

Notable claims that emerged in 2006: The FDR data from Flight 77 proves that the plane was too high to hit the Pentagon, A scientific poll says 84% of Americans reject the official story.

Notable media coverage:
New York Magazine
CNN
FOX
ABC Jimmy Kimmel Show
ABC News
Washington Post
NY Times
Vanity Fair
Time Magazine


2007

In 2007 mainstream documentaries discussing the 9/11 conspiracy theories start emerging. BBC airs "9/11: The Conspiracy Files" in February. In August the History Channel aired “Conspiracy Theories about 9/11, Fact or Fiction?”. Also conspiracy movies continued to get airplay, ORF in Austria airs "9/11 Mysteries". Truthaction, Wearechange and ae911truth are launched, the newest notable organizations/websites to date.

Early 2007: The Pentacon movie and website released
Early 2007: truthaction.org opens
January 2007: Website Scholars for Truth & Justice launches
March 2007: David Ray Griffin releases the book Debunking 9/11 Debunking
March 2007: Website wearechange.org launches
May 2007: Website ae911truth.org lauches
June 2007: NYC ballot initiative launched (later relaunched as NYC-CAN)
September 2007: ae911truth releases the DVD 9/11: Blueprint for Truth
November 2007: The movie Loose Change Final Cut is released

Notable claims that emerged in 2007: North of CITGO flight path of Flight 77.

Notable media coverage:
BBC
History Channel
ORF


2008

In 2008 things started to slow down, especially in the US. Most notable was the airing of BBC's documentary “The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 - The Third Tower”. The movie "Zero" was aired in Russian television and AL Jazeera TV. Richard Gage appears on Spanish TV, and ABC Australia publishes a truther opinion piece.

March 2008: David Ray Griffin releases the book 9/11 Contradictions
June 2008: The movie Zero is released
September 2008: David Ray Griffin releases the book New Pearl Harbor Revisited
September 2008: ae911truth releases the DVD 9/11 Blueprint for Truth 2008 Edition

Notable claims that emerged in 2008: None.

Notable media coverage:
BBC
ABC Australia
Financial Times
Russian TV
AL Jazeera TV
Spanish TV


2009

In 2009 a couple of more mainstream documentaries are aired. In August the National Geographic Channel airs the documentary "9/11: Science and Conspiracy". In November, Canada's CBC airs the documentary "The Unofficial Story: Eight years after 9/11, why are doubts growing about the official record of that day?" A TV-series "Rescue Me" inside job episode was also aired, which lead NY Times and Chicago Sun-Times to cover Daniel Sunjata's views on 9/11.

April 2009: Harrit, Jones et.al release the paper Nanothermitic Material in WTC Dust, and later a dvd on the same subject
May 2009: David Ray Griffin releases the book OBL Dead or Alive
May 2009: ae911truth releases 9/11: Blueprint for Truth DVD in 10 minute, 30 minute and 60 minute versions
September 2009: The movie Loose Change American Coup is released
September 2009: David Ray Griffin releases the book The Mysterious Collapse of WTC 7

Notable claims that emerged in 2009: Nanothermite claims.

Notable media coverage:
National Geographic Channel
CBC


2010

In February 2010 Washington Times runs a story on Richard Gage.

Notable media coverage:
Washington Times



The Truth Movement and the Mainstream Media

A common claim is, that mainstream media refuses to cover the truth movement. This is not the case. The media attention has been diverse, see above. It first started in Europe in 2002-2003, when conspiracy theories started gaining much European attention. In 2004 the media started to give more coverage to the truth movement in the US as well. The US media interest peaked in 2006, and it is fair to say that so did the popularity of the truth movement. Since 2007 many mainstream documentaries have countered the conspiracy theories, and the media interest in the US has diminished rapidly. Nowadays the biggest media interest once again comes from outside US whenever some prominent truther figures visit foreign countries. Conspiracy theorists have received their share of mainstream attention, but it has gotten them nowhere, except to claim that they have not been treated fairly.

David Ray Griffin stated in 2005: "Once I started reading that (Paul Thompson timeline) and saw all those stories drawn from mainstream sources that contradicted the official account, I decided I needed to look into it more carefully, and the more I looked, the worse it got." The mainstream articles turned Griffin a truther. The mainstream television aired the events on TV and released the photos in newspapers, videos and photos which were later analysed by truthers claiming demolition, Pentagon theories, etc. Mainstream media reported the warnings, the eyewitness testimonies, the hijacker suspects, the passenger lists, and so on and so on. If it wasn't for mainstream media, the truth movement wouldn't have much to talk about.


9/11 Truth: Now or Never?
As some of you might remember, now or never was the title of the main truth movement event in September 2008. It wasn't then. Is it now, or is it never?

Emergence of new claims is very much concentrated to the first couple of years. This is natural, since there is only a limited amount of theories that one can come up with. At some point almost every alternative theory has already been invented. This was already the case in 2003. Only a couple of new claims have emerged in the last 7 years. So for new claims the answer is never.

When is the last time the truth movement presented something new? That was in April 2009, when the nanothermite article flopped. And even that wasn't such a new thing. It was just a development from an old thermite hypothesis. For anything new at all, it's more and more likely to be never.

When was the last time you saw the release of a completely new truther movie? The latest we have seen were the release of the fourth LC movie and the many different length third editions of Richard Gage's Blueprint for Truth in 2009. The lastest completely new videos (with same old claims) were the Blueprint for Truth and a movie called Zero in 2008 (Steven Jones's nanothermite lecture DVD not counting). For new movies, maybe never. For new edits of old material, probably.

When was the last time you saw a significant new website launch? That was ae911truth.org back in early 2007. For new websites, never at least in the scale they used to be.

This doesn't mean, that the already existing claims couldn't get more supporting evidence, which they to this day haven't. This doesn't mean, that the already existing websites aren't enough. This doesn't mean, that the more new movies the better. It just shows, that they have absolutely nothing new to present. And the boredom shows. Diminishing media coverage. Attendance of truther gatherings plummeting year after year, at least in the US. For bigger audiences and media breakthrough, never.

And when is the last time they didn't fail in their attemps to bring truth further? NYC-CAN failed. Gage failed to get the much hyped 1000 A&E's in 2008, then he failed again to reach the same goal in 2009. In 2008 Gage promised to take the list of 1000 A&E's to the Congress in DC, but when he finally reached that number in 2010 he failed to go to the Congress, and held a press conference instead, which failed since no press showed up. The latest LC movies failed to have any impact. The Truthburn failed. The examples of failures are numerous. The successes are nowhere to be seen. For failures, now, for successes, never at least in the past 9 years.

But they are still trying. David Ray Griffin has released five new books in three years. Gage goes on speaking tours. NYC-CAN still think they somehow can. They like it as it is, nothing changing. It keeps the false hope alive, that some day something will happen. It's much better than admitting a failure. For still trying, now. For admitting a failure, never.
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Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

Last edited by ref; 4th March 2010 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 4th March 2010, 07:59 AM   #2
SatansMaleVoiceChoir
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I wonder if all of the above would fit on a headstone?

Good work, fella.
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Old 4th March 2010, 12:14 PM   #3
dudalb
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It's gonna be never.
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Old 4th March 2010, 12:24 PM   #4
tfk
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ref,

Excellent & very useful summary.

Thanks.


Tom
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Old 4th March 2010, 01:03 PM   #5
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You have the makings of a book here, ref. I would add to your list a compilation of the fringe and discarded notions - DEW, no-truss theory, and so on. Some of these are quite entertaining and show the extremes and the mental instabilities of their adherents.
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Old 4th March 2010, 03:06 PM   #6
Jackanory
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Originally Posted by ref View Post
I have done something similar before. I have written about the history of 9/11 claims, made a timeline, etc. This time, however, I combined a couple of my earlier works, analysed each year more carefully, and took a look at what exactly have the truthers achieved. And where are they going. I have already given up debunking some while ago, so to me it's interesting to take one more look at what this has been all about. This is very possibly the last piece I will ever write here, so here goes.

I start with the year-by-year analysis. First there is a short introduction to each year. Then I have included the notable book and DVD releases, as well as several website launches. Later I have listed notable claims that emerged in the particular year. Finally, each year I present the notable media coverage the truth claims have received.

At the end of the article there is more analysis of the entire 9 years. But first, let's start from the beginning.


2001

In 2001 there were no book or video releases. This was the time of short articles, multiple new claims, and time when the foundation for the entire movement was built. Main focus was to show 9/11 was an inside job.

Notable claims that emerged in 2001: Controlled demolition, NORAD stand-down, Remote controlled planes, No hijackers involved, Downplaying of Hani Hanjour's piloting skills, Global Hawk at Pentagon, Passports found almost intact are fake, Flight 93 was shot down, Atta's luggage findings are fake, 8 mile debris area at Shanksville is suspicious, No Arabs on the passenger lists, Bin Laden video is fake, Jet fuel can’t melt steel, Black smoke indicates a died down fire either low on temperature or starved for oxygen, Falling into own footprint, The tops of the towers should have toppled over, Everything has to fail simultaneously (WTC towers), First fire-collapses in the history of tall city buildings, Pulverized concrete, The core should have been left standing, Design loads (the towers should have been able to support the weight), Insider trading and put options, 9/11 was a US government false flag operation (Operation Northwoods), etc.



2002

2002 was the year of the huge success of Thierry Meyssan. His first book was an international success, and he very quickly followed with a second book on the same subject. His books sold hundreds of thousands of copies, and were widely translated to other languages. The focus was largely on Pentagon.

March 2002: Thierry Meyssan releases the book 9/11: The Big Lie
June 2002: Thierry Meyssan releases the book The Pentagate
September 2002: Eric Hufschmid releases the book Painful Questions and soon later a DVD Painful Deceptions

Notable claims that emerged in 2002: WTC 7 demolition & squibs, Collapses at free-fall speeds, A cruise missile and no plane at the Pentagon, Osama Bin Laden is a fabrication of US intelligence, No film footage of the Pentagon explosion exists, Eyewitness testimonies of the Pentagon crash are suspicious or contradictory or flatly incredible, Pentagon photos offer no evidence of the debris typical of an airplane crash, The area of destruction to the Pentagon is impossibly small given the size and span of the craft, Plane swaps, Voice simulation used to fake the phone calls, "Mom, this is Mark Bingham." -line is fake, The low passenger count on each flight is suspicious, POD theory, Seismic evidence contradicts the official story, Pyroclastic flows, Other than just conventional explosives were used, Thermite, WTC Nukes, Many of the hijackers are alive, no planes at WTC, etc.

Notable media coverage:
French TV channels
Time Magazine


2003

In 2003 the conspiracy theories continued to sell well in Europe. Andreas Von Bülow's book was a best seller in Germany, selling over 100 000 copies. In a German poll 31% of people under 30 years old believed the USG was behing the attacks. Germany's leading newsmagazine, Der Spiegel, ran a cover story, giving a point-by-point rebuttal to the most widely spread myths, and another leading newspaper, the Suddeutsche Zeitung in Munich, published a lengthy piece ridiculing the ideas. Also in Italy and Spain, authors hit the bestseller charts by claiming that the U.S. was hiding the truth about 9/11. Canadian TV company CBC airs a program titled "The fifth estate: Conspiracy Theories"

Middle of 2003: Jim Hoffman lauches first of his three 9/11 sites
June 2003: Andreas Von Bülow releases the book The CIA and September 11
Multiple other book releases in different countries.

Notable claims that emerged in 2003: The infamous "Pull It" claim.

Notable media coverage:
Germany's leading broadcaster ARD
Der Spiegel
Suddeutsche Zeitung
CBC


2004

In 2004 the truth movement started to get mainstream coverage also in the US. There was dissatifaction with the 9/11 commission, and the first demands for a new independent investigation were made. A commonly made reference was to a Zogby poll, which indicated that nearly a half of NYC residents believed the government had foreknowledge of the attacks.

January 2004: Movie In Plane Site released
March 2004: David Ray Griffin releases the book New Pearl Harbor
June 2004: Website 911truth.org launches
October 2004: Michael Ruppert releases the book Crossing The Rubicon
November 2004: David Ray Griffin releases the book The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions

Notable claims that emerged in 2004: William Rodriguez basement explosion claims, 9/11 Commission Report is a whitewash. Underwriters' Laboratories certified the WTC steel.

Notable media coverage (excluding major newspaper ad-campaigns):
ABC News
NY Times
CNN: Anderson Cooper Show


2005

In 2005 the truth movement was dissatisfied with the report from NIST. The prominent truthers were getting some mainstream attention in the US. For example, David Ray Griffin was interviewed by the LA Times, and Steven Jones appeared on MSNBC.

March 2005: Webster Tarpley releases the book 9/11: Synthetic Terror
April 2005: The movie Loose Change is released
April 2005: Website 911blogger.com launches
June 2005: Alex Jones releases a DVD Martial Law 9/11: Rise of the Police State
December 2005: The movie Loose Change 2nd Edition is released

Notable claims that emerged in 2005: The NIST Report on the WTC towers is a whitewash.

Notable media coverage:
LA Times
MSNBC


2006

In 2006 the 9/11 truth really broke through, largely thanks to Loose Change 2nd Edition released in late 2005. The movie was aired on television in 12 countries in 2006. Vanity Fair releases an article featuring the Loose Change creators. Charlie Sheen gets a lot of media coverage, including CNN and FOX, for claiming 9/11 was an inside job. The truther gatherings also start getting media attention. The attendance of NYC anniversary truther gathering was at it's peak.

February 2006: The Scholars for 9/11 Truth is formed
June 2006: Alex Jones releases the DVD Terrorstorm
Sept 2006: The movie 9/11 Mysteries is released
Sept 2006: The movie 9/11: Press for Truth is released
October 2006: Website pilotsfor911truth.org launches

Notable claims that emerged in 2006: The FDR data from Flight 77 proves that the plane was too high to hit the Pentagon, A scientific poll says 84% of Americans reject the official story.

Notable media coverage:
New York Magazine
CNN
FOX
ABC Jimmy Kimmel Show
ABC News
Washington Post
NY Times
Vanity Fair
Time Magazine


2007

In 2007 mainstream documentaries discussing the 9/11 conspiracy theories start emerging. BBC airs "9/11: The Conspiracy Files" in February. In August the History Channel aired “Conspiracy Theories about 9/11, Fact or Fiction?”. Also conspiracy movies continued to get airplay, ORF in Austria airs "9/11 Mysteries". Truthaction, Wearechange and ae911truth are launched, the newest notable organizations/websites to date.

Early 2007: The Pentacon movie and website released
Early 2007: truthaction.org opens
January 2007: Website Scholars for Truth & Justice launches
March 2007: David Ray Griffin releases the book Debunking 9/11 Debunking
March 2007: Website wearechange.org launches
May 2007: Website ae911truth.org lauches
June 2007: NYC ballot initiative launched (later relaunched as NYC-CAN)
September 2007: ae911truth releases the DVD 9/11: Blueprint for Truth
November 2007: The movie Loose Change Final Cut is released

Notable claims that emerged in 2007: North of CITGO flight path of Flight 77.

Notable media coverage:
BBC
History Channel
ORF


2008

In 2008 things started to slow down, especially in the US. Most notable was the airing of BBC's documentary “The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 - The Third Tower”. The movie "Zero" was aired in Russian television and AL Jazeera TV. Richard Gage appears on Spanish TV, and ABC Australia publishes a truther opinion piece.

March 2008: David Ray Griffin releases the book 9/11 Contradictions
June 2008: The movie Zero is released
September 2008: David Ray Griffin releases the book New Pearl Harbor Revisited
September 2008: ae911truth releases the DVD 9/11 Blueprint for Truth 2008 Edition

Notable claims that emerged in 2008: None.

Notable media coverage:
BBC
ABC Australia
Financial Times
Russian TV
AL Jazeera TV
Spanish TV


2009

In 2009 a couple of more mainstream documentaries are aired. In August the National Geographic Channel airs the documentary "9/11: Science and Conspiracy". In November, Canada's CBC airs the documentary "The Unofficial Story: Eight years after 9/11, why are doubts growing about the official record of that day?" A TV-series "Rescue Me" inside job episode was also aired, which lead NY Times and Chicago Sun-Times to cover Daniel Sunjata's views on 9/11.

April 2009: Harrit, Jones et.al release the paper Nanothermitic Material in WTC Dust, and later a dvd on the same subject
May 2009: David Ray Griffin releases the book OBL Dead or Alive
May 2009: ae911truth releases 9/11: Blueprint for Truth DVD in 10 minute, 30 minute and 60 minute versions
September 2009: The movie Loose Change American Coup is released
September 2009: David Ray Griffin releases the book The Mysterious Collapse of WTC 7

Notable claims that emerged in 2009: Nanothermite claims.

Notable media coverage:
National Geographic Channel
CBC


2010

In February 2010 Washington Times runs a story on Richard Gage.

Notable media coverage:
Washington Times



The Truth Movement and the Mainstream Media

A common claim is, that mainstream media refuses to cover the truth movement. This is not the case. The media attention has been diverse, see above. It first started in Europe in 2002-2003, when conspiracy theories started gaining much European attention. In 2004 the media started to give more coverage to the truth movement in the US as well. The US media interest peaked in 2006, and it is fair to say that so did the popularity of the truth movement. Since 2007 many mainstream documentaries have countered the conspiracy theories, and the media interest in the US has diminished rapidly. Nowadays the biggest media interest once again comes from outside US whenever some prominent truther figures visit foreign countries. Conspiracy theorists have received their share of mainstream attention, but it has gotten them nowhere, except to claim that they have not been treated fairly.

David Ray Griffin stated in 2005: "Once I started reading that (Paul Thompson timeline) and saw all those stories drawn from mainstream sources that contradicted the official account, I decided I needed to look into it more carefully, and the more I looked, the worse it got." The mainstream articles turned Griffin a truther. The mainstream television aired the events on TV and released the photos in newspapers, videos and photos which were later analysed by truthers claiming demolition, Pentagon theories, etc. Mainstream media reported the warnings, the eyewitness testimonies, the hijacker suspects, the passenger lists, and so on and so on. If it wasn't for mainstream media, the truth movement wouldn't have much to talk about.


9/11 Truth: Now or Never?
As some of you might remember, now or never was the title of the main truth movement event in September 2008. It wasn't then. Is it now, or is it never?

Emergence of new claims is very much concentrated to the first couple of years. This is natural, since there is only a limited amount of theories that one can come up with. At some point almost every alternative theory has already been invented. This was already the case in 2003. Only a couple of new claims have emerged in the last 7 years. So for new claims the answer is never.

When is the last time the truth movement presented something new? That was in April 2009, when the nanothermite article flopped. And even that wasn't such a new thing. It was just a development from an old thermite hypothesis. For anything new at all, it's more and more likely to be never.

When was the last time you saw the release of a completely new truther movie? The latest we have seen were the release of the fourth LC movie and the many different length third editions of Richard Gage's Blueprint for Truth in 2009. The lastest completely new videos (with same old claims) were the Blueprint for Truth and a movie called Zero in 2008 (Steven Jones's nanothermite lecture DVD not counting). For new movies, maybe never. For new edits of old material, probably.

When was the last time you saw a significant new website launch? That was ae911truth.org back in early 2007. For new websites, never at least in the scale they used to be.

This doesn't mean, that the already existing claims couldn't get more supporting evidence, which they to this day haven't. This doesn't mean, that the already existing websites aren't enough. This doesn't mean, that the more new movies the better. It just shows, that they have absolutely nothing new to present. And the boredom shows. Diminishing media coverage. Attendance of truther gatherings plummeting year after year, at least in the US. For bigger audiences and media breakthrough, never.

And when is the last time they didn't fail in their attemps to bring truth further? NYC-CAN failed. Gage failed to get the much hyped 1000 A&E's in 2008, then he failed again to reach the same goal in 2009. In 2008 Gage promised to take the list of 1000 A&E's to the Congress in DC, but when he finally reached that number in 2010 he failed to go to the Congress, and held a press conference instead, which failed since no press showed up. The latest LC movies failed to have any impact. The Truthburn failed. The examples of failures are numerous. The successes are nowhere to be seen. For failures, now, for successes, never at least in the past 9 years.

But they are still trying. David Ray Griffin has released five new books in three years. Gage goes on speaking tours. NYC-CAN still think they somehow can. They like it as it is, nothing changing. It keeps the false hope alive, that some day something will happen. It's much better than admitting a failure. For still trying, now. For admitting a failure, never.
Outstanding post. How did i manage to go through the last 8 years oblivious to all this craziness. Seriously, i only became aware that 911 conspiracies existed last year and only because some kid hyjacked a skydiving thread on youboob. If i wasnt a skydiver and hadnt veiwed that video i would never of heard of the TM. I get about a fair bit too.

Only ever met one truther in the flesh and that was at a DZ in UK. He was a skydive tandem instructor who would purposely leave his laptop open and displaying conspiracy sites about wars for oil etc. The resident jumpers would ignore him but he would make attempts to get the tandem students and their spectators to view these sites. He was generally ridiculed, laughed at and ignored but his godly status as a skydive instructor got him by. He no longer works at our DZ.

Other than those two occasions the TM to me only exists here and remains a larger source of ridicule. I am not familiar with the TM characters of the past and i have no intention of looking but here BS is the best they have. I have become rather bored of it all. The socks just arnt smart enough to get the attention these days i suppose. It is true to say that without the internet they dont exist anywhere in my real life. Great OP. I would hazard a guess that when ref does another in ten years you will see possibly two extra paragraphs. Both highlighting the complete and utter decline of the whats left of an invisible, silent sniff.
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Old 4th March 2010, 03:53 PM   #7
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Now or Never...huh?

well...I guess the answer is Never.

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Old 4th March 2010, 05:12 PM   #8
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As it happens, 9-11 Truth Now or Never was the title of the 9-11-08 events in New York with We Are Change.
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Old 4th March 2010, 08:02 PM   #9
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Good stuff, but you forgot the Russia Today "news" spots in 2010.

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Old 4th March 2010, 08:03 PM   #10
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How often can Truthers say "Now or Never"...before they get a clue?
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Old 4th March 2010, 08:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
You have the makings of a book here, ref. I would add to your list a compilation of the fringe and discarded notions - DEW, no-truss theory, and so on. Some of these are quite entertaining and show the extremes and the mental instabilities of their adherents.
Yes. Be sure to include all the discarded theories. Melted steel, OBL the mastermind, oil fire in WTC7, the 9/11 commission stating the tower fell in 10 seconds, and so on.
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Old 4th March 2010, 10:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Profanz View Post
Yes. Be sure to include all the discarded theories. Melted steel,
No one ever said the steel literally melted.

Quote:
OBL the mastermind,
Osama Bin Laden's role as the Al-Queada leader has been proven in a court of law. He has even confessed to the attacks multiple times.

Quote:
oil fire in WTC7,
There was a diesel fuel fire inside WTC7.

Quote:
the 9/11 commission stating the tower fell in 10 seconds.
I don't know where you got this from, but it is wrong. The collapses of WTC1, 2 and 7 all took much longer than 10 seconds.
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Old 5th March 2010, 12:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jackanory View Post
Great OP. I would hazard a guess that when ref does another in ten years you will see possibly two extra paragraphs. Both highlighting the complete and utter decline of the whats left of an invisible, silent sniff.
Thanks. In ten years I might get a couple of additions, mainly a couple of more Griffin books, and maybe another form of thermite (how about picothermite?)

I expect them to get a couple of media appearances every now and then, mainly on anniversaries and while touring. But who cares. It's more about curiosity that this kind of group exists, than about any actual interest towards their theories.

(Nobody commented that it's not actually been a full 9 years yet. I know, but I took the privilege to wrap this year up for them already )
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Old 5th March 2010, 12:35 AM   #14
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Great work as usual, ref!

Are you going to put this on your site? If so, maybe add to the 2006 media Matt Taibbi's brilliant Rolling Stone article. It's a classic.
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Old 5th March 2010, 12:42 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
Great work as usual, ref!

Are you going to put this on your site? If so, maybe add to the 2006 media Matt Taibbi's brilliant Rolling Stone article. It's a classic.
Thanks Orphia!

I'm not going to put this on my site. I already stopped updating the site last year, and nowadays it's only an archive of my past work. (I also found out a couple of days ago, that googlepages has changed their layout and redirects the old pages to a new address. Some of the site's titles now appear a little bit awkward, but the site is still readable, so I won't edit it. It is still accessible from the old googlepages address.)

Well, one can't remember everything, I had completely forgotten the Rolling Stone article. Good that you mentioned it!

To Edx:
I also intentionally "forgot" the Russia Today articles of 2009. I also did't include guardian, daily mail, and other rather big newspaper's articles/stories/commentaries. I also left out the recent appearances in New Zealand media (sorry kiwi's!) and appearances in Scandinavian media. I had to draw the line somewhere, those didn't make my personally defined "notable media" cut. If I had included every release and discussion in every big and small paper and media worldwide, the post would have been multiple times longer.
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Old 5th March 2010, 02:49 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Profanz View Post
Yes. Be sure to include all the discarded theories. Melted steel, OBL the mastermind, oil fire in WTC7, the 9/11 commission stating the tower fell in 10 seconds, and so on.
Although most of these are the usual truth movement lies, one of the reasons the truth movement fails is that it refuses to discard theories that are obviously wrong.

Dave
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Old 5th March 2010, 07:06 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Profanz View Post
Yes. Be sure to include all the discarded theories. Melted steel, OBL the mastermind, oil fire in WTC7, the 9/11 commission stating the tower fell in 10 seconds, and so on.
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Although most of these are the usual truth movement lies, one of the reasons the truth movement fails is that it refuses to discard theories that are obviously wrong.

Dave
This is worth emphasizing. Reasonable people allow for the fact that as information develops, the narrative describing what happened evolves. Conspiracy fantasists, on the other hand, are addicted to a static narrative of government conspiracy and work desperately to make things fit into their preconceptions, regardless of the contradictions. To that end, they attack the truth as if it were some mistaken representation of history. Profanz's post is an example of this sort of distortion; note how he 1. Removes context, and 2. Misrepresents the reality of the topics he mentions in order to forward his distortions:

Molten steel was at best a working presumption by some 3rd parties commenting in the press early in the event, and had never been a component of what the truthers call the "Official Story". You'll note that the FEMA Building Peformance Study never mentioned molten steel as a result of extreme temperatures in the tower fires, and noted the only "melting" was the eutectic corrosion we've all discussed and beaten to death in this forum. You'll also note that NIST never mentions the possibility of molten steel as a consequence of the tower fires either, but at most says that if it even happened, it more than likely occurred in the post collapse rubble fires, not in the pre-collapse building fires. Subsequent research has validated this; no recovered steel shows signs of melting, and this not only includes, but targets steel from the collapse initiation areas. On top of that, the Worcester Polytechnic studies confirms eutectic corrosion as being the cause of the "swiss cheese appearance" noted in a small number of components. I don't know if the truther distortion here is that molten steel was disproven, or that molten steel occurred but was ignored by NIST and other researchers, but the point is that there is nothing incorrect about how any of the rational researchers regard the idea of molten steel. The only errors come from the conspiracy addicts.

Regarding diesel fuel contributing to the fires in WTC 7: That was the working presumption in the FEMA Building Performance Report, but was shown to not be the case via subsequent research called for in the very report that mentioned it. The presumption was built on the presence of the diesel tanks and lines, and the size of the fires, but latter recovery of large amounts of the diesel, plus a detailed study of the collapse very clearly showed that even if the diesel that was missing had indeed burned, it would not have contributed to the collapse.

This is what scientific research does: It clarifies.

It's also notable that the other two claims - "OBL the Mastermind" and "9/11 commission stating the tower fell in 10 seconds" are distortions. The 9/11 Commision Report never pretended to be the authoritative source for information regarding the tower's collapse; the commision's charter explains this:
Quote:
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission), an independent, bipartisan commission created by congressional legislation and the signature of President George W. Bush in late 2002, is chartered to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks. The Commission is also mandated to provide recommendations designed to guard against future attacks
The 9/11 Commision Report is one describing the "circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks" i.e. the terrorists, their planning, and their movements in relation to both the planning and execution of the attack. While other aspects of the history are noted - the FAA ATC response, for example - the Commision was dedicated to detailing the attack itself. The engineering study of the towers collapses were separate. Nobody expects the 9/11 Commision Report to be the authoritative source on tower collapse details.

And as far as "OBL the mastermind": Clarification of details about Al Qaeda's planning has shown who actually planned the even (Khalid Sheikh Mohammed) and who concieved of the idea and gave the planning his blessing (Osama Bin Laden). At no time does the documentation of the roles those individuals played negate the fact that Bin Laden was indeed involved. And several meetings - the famous Tora Bora meetings, and subsequent move by KSM to Kandahar - do in fact allow for the possibility of Bin Laden being involved in the actual planning. Regardless, it is a deliberate distortion to claim this, or any of the other points above, are examples of mistakes on the part of those of us who believe in evidence based thinking. In all cases, earlier logical premises were either confirmed, refined, or outright supplanted by more soundly supported narratives. That is what honest, evidence-based research does: It, like scientific research, clarifies.

Contrast all of that to the trutheristic conspiracy peddling: They still claim molten steel. They still claim demolitions. This after both were very clearly shown to not have occurred. Conspiracy peddling is dedicated to obscuring the truth about the history and science in order to peddle alternate, unsupported beliefs that only support anomalies in the 9/11 narrative when those anomalies are divorced from the overall context of the event. When those anomalies are observed and evaluated in their full context, it becomes apparent that the truth is not what the truthers claim it is, but rather what the established narrative says (for an example, look at the correctly identified discrepancies in the Mineta testimony: There were indeed errors, but in the context of all the events, they're clearly due to imperfect recall, not deliberate distortion of the overall narrative).

That's the difference between the rationality based segment of the population and the conspiratorially addicted individuals agigating for "9/11 'Truth'": One accepts what evidence points at. The other posts context free distortions in order to make the majority look like they've made mistakes, when in fact, they've used critical thought to illuminate what is correct, and discard what is not supported.
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Old 5th March 2010, 08:03 AM   #18
Jackanory
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Originally Posted by ref View Post
It's more about curiosity that this kind of group exists, than about any actual interest towards their theories.
That sums it all up in a nut shell. The most curious and gullible being kids with access to the internet. My kids (although not kids anymore) are part of the internet generation. Youtube, bebo, facebook, myspace etc. Yet they constantly tell me and the missus that the internet is full of bull. They are more in tune with what is and isnt happening than me. They are aware of the bull and are accustomed to it. None of them have ever mentioned anything about a 911 conspiracy and i am certain that they would see it for what it is and pity it. 911 conspiracy is obviously reaching some but not through them searching for it. On the whole i think that most kids are more interested in other stuff and can tell if its lies. Curiosity can also sniff out the bull.
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