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Old 2nd April 2010, 01:03 AM   #1
Chase_the_Bass
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The Red Shoe OOBE

In Philosophy today the professor brought up a supposedly true account of a woman who died on the operating table (or something) in a hospital, and then felt herself rise up through the building and saw a red shoe on the roof. After being brought back to life she mentioned what she saw and later a staff member went to the roof and found a red shoe.

That can't be real, can it?

I thought that this would have already been in a thread but my search didn't show anything.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 01:33 AM   #2
Garrette
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Unverified rubbish.

There are actual two "Red Shoe" OOBEs; one in Seattle in 1984 and one in Hartford in 1985.

You can read short descriptions of them here. Scroll down almost halfway and read the two entries for Dr. Kenneth Ring. Both accounts originated through his reporting, though he did nothing to verify the reports except cursory interviews.

Note the summary of the Seattle account which indicates that the person who verified the presence of the red shoe on the window ledge as Ring's co-author on a book; no indication why she would be in the hospital to begin with.

Feel good flummery.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 03:35 AM   #3
Aepervius
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1) what Garette said, in addition there is no way to check that the woman did not take a walk in the roof before and incidentally saw the red shoe, or even put it there intentionally (would I be a bit evil, I would certainly do it, the money from the book proceed afterward would certainly be nice).
2) Some professor put some random image on top of his op above the light, and he operated the people for bypass and heart. None of the OOb reported the image. I Can't provide a link.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 05:01 AM   #4
Garrette
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
1) what Garette said, in addition there is no way to check that the woman did not take a walk in the roof before and incidentally saw the red shoe, or even put it there intentionally (would I be a bit evil, I would certainly do it, the money from the book proceed afterward would certainly be nice).
I almost suggested this in my post, and it is certainly something that would need ruling out before true OOBE was established. Among other things.

Which leads to why something like this:
Originally Posted by Aepervius
2) Some professor put some random image on top of his op above the light, and he operated the people for bypass and heart. None of the OOb reported the image. I Can't provide a link.
Is important and so much more closer to the mark for real evidence.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 07:52 AM   #5
ExMinister
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
2) Some professor put some random image on top of his op above the light, and he operated the people for bypass and heart. None of the OOb reported the image. I Can't provide a link.
Here's some information on it, though it's from 2008. I don't know if anyone has published any results yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7621608.stm

Interesting, I hadn't heard of the red-shoe story.

The Seattle tennis-shoe story originated with Kimberly Clark Sharp. She was a hospital social worker and the patient's name was Maria.

An article that mentions it (woo slanted) - http://www.newtimes.org/issue/9704/97-04-zara.html :

Quote:
Kimberly Clark Sharp has studied others who have had these experiences, thousands of them. Her work with NDE survivors began with a woman named Maria, a Hispanic migrant worker. After her recovery from a massive heart attack in Harborview's CCU, Maria began to describe, in halting English, what she had seen while she had been floating around the hospital, out of her body. One detail, a tennis shoe on a high ledge, intrigued Sharp. After considerable detective work, going from room to room throughout the hospital looking out of windows, the tennis shoe was discovered on a ledge that would only be visible from above. Nowhere Maria had been was above the ledge. Maria's agitation over this incident convinced Sharp that doctors and patients both needed to be educated about the near death experience.
From what I understand, Sharp did not obtain any other witnesses to the story, and no one knows who or where Maria is, so we only have her word on it.
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Old 2nd April 2010, 08:27 AM   #6
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For a critical look at near-death related experiences, this is very good.

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...ine/HNDEs.html
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Old 3rd April 2010, 06:21 PM   #7
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Barry Beyerstein co-authored a piece on exactly this incident in the Skeptical Inquirer (Vol 20, No. 4 (1996)), titled Maria's Near-Death Experience: Waiting for the Other Shoe to Drop. It's a pretty thorough investigation--among other things, they documented that the ledge on which the shoe was found was clearly visible from several different places, including both the emergency entrance and the bed in Maria's room. A fun read.
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