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Tags Anita Ikonen , challenges , iig , Mark Edward , VisionFromFeeling

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Old 19th April 2010, 06:09 PM   #1
Susan Gerbic
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Put a Fork in her she's done! VfF

Just finished writing this blog about Mark Edward "testing" Anita Ikonen last Saturday night.

I have 8 videos showing the events as they unfolded.

http://montereycountyskeptics.blogsp...sion-from.html

Really welcome comments
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Old 19th April 2010, 06:29 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by sgf8 View Post
Just finished writing this blog about Mark Edward "testing" Anita Ikonen last Saturday night.

I have 8 videos showing the events as they unfolded.

http://montereycountyskeptics.blogsp...sion-from.html

Really welcome comments

Classic...

Originally Posted by Monterey County Skeptics
After scanning him for sometime she gave him a clean bill of health, she said "I can not detect any diseases". When he asked her why she didn't see the "life-threatening disease" he has, she said "she wasn't checking for that". She explained that the scan could go on for hours and she didn't have a check list with her. In her defense she said, "I did not fail, because I didn't say you had something that you did not have".

... simply classic material here.
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Old 19th April 2010, 06:50 PM   #3
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Well, the videos were enlightening, a bit boring but a very good example of just how ineffectual Anita Ikonen is. I wonder if Mark Edward will blog about it.
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Old 19th April 2010, 06:54 PM   #4
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How funny!

Her excuse on the video for missing diabetes is that she doesn't know where diabetes would manifest. However, on her website she writes, "I detect many of what I call "precursors" for diseases that can be present before the problem has become severe enough to be considered an illness, such as breast cancer precursors, and the very common diabetes precursor."

She also told Mark it would take "hours" for a complete work-up. However, she has told us already:
Quote:
I think it depends on the strength of the vibrational information that forms the perceptions. Perceptions that come to me on their own, from more severe health problems, appear immediately. And in cases where I have to search for information it takes a while longer for the perceptions to form, since the vibrational information is not as strong. Typically it takes from "no time" to a few seconds. Sometimes I spend up to a minute forming images very carefully, if I picked up on a hint of a health problem and want to work on forming the entire perception of it. It really takes very little time. But on a test I want to be allowed more time than it normally takes, just in case.
She also took less than 15 minutes per person in her so-called Study where she was completing a health questionnaire. The readings at the F-A-C-T meetings didn't take hours.

She said she didn't check is his eyes, but she told us before, "I would definitely want to try a test in detecting which out of a group of people is color blind or deaf." She had told us she can see and hear what other see and hear. Her "study" form lists blurry vision as something she can detect.

I wonder if three days from now she will send him an e-mail telling him that she really, really, really, did detect the diabetes but was too afraid of being wrong to say it. This is called the Carslon Maneuver after Dr. Carlson of missing kidney fame.
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Old 19th April 2010, 06:58 PM   #5
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I imagine we'll hear the excuse that counting fingers under a serviette is "remote viewing", which is not the same as "Vision from Feeling" and therefore not a fair test of Anita's abilities.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:15 PM   #6
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After watching her on the opening video I think Anita does have some connection with the paranormal. Yet she can't really explain it.

From her body language she's seen something out of the ordinary.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
After watching her on the opening video I think Anita does have some connection with the paranormal. Yet she can't really explain it.

From her body language she's seen something out of the ordinary.
Yes. She's seen extraordinary failure.
Much like you have.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by JimBenArm View Post
Yes. She's seen extraordinary failure.
Much like you have.
Her body language indicates otherwise.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
Her body language indicates otherwise.
No. It doesn't.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
Her body language indicates otherwise.
No, you're reading it backwards.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:29 PM   #11
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Her body language portrays someone who is uncomfortable in the situation.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Audible Click View Post
Her body language portrays someone who is uncomfortable in the situation.
Because someone stuck a fork in her, duh!
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:33 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
After watching her on the opening video I think Anita does have some connection with the paranormal. Yet she can't really explain it.

From her body language she's seen something out of the ordinary.


You might want to do some actual research into this whole matter, lest you make an even more embarrassing post.


Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
Her body language indicates otherwise.


Bummer. Too late.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
Her body language indicates otherwise.
Please for the love of Mahavishnu Orchestra, PLEASE explain how 'body language' can possibly be an indicator of the supernatural.

If that's the case, Jamiroquai's got paranormal ability in SPADES.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
If that's the case, Jamiroquai's got paranormal ability in SPADES.
I suspect the large hat hides some kind of antennae.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:43 PM   #16
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That is awesome stuff, I linked to it on my new blog.

Warning: if you visit, be aware that I swear a lot and I harbor no notions of maturity on my blog, and all commenters are welcome to do the same. The gloves are off there
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:45 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
After watching her on the opening video I think Anita does have some connection with the paranormal. Yet she can't really explain it.

From her body language she's seen something out of the ordinary.

Seeing something that isn't really there doesn't indicate "some connection with the paranormal". It's called a hallucination.
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Old 19th April 2010, 07:54 PM   #18
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I call it attention seeking, a clear case of daddy issues.
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Old 19th April 2010, 08:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
If that's the case, Jamiroquai's got paranormal ability in SPADES.

http://www.lvcontortionist.com/photo...s/page_43.html
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:16 PM   #20
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The open reading

After a lovely dinner with Mark Edward and several other California-based Skeptics last Saturday, I decided to ask Mark if I could try a "vision from feeling" reading with him as the volunteer. I have a paranormal claim in which when I look at a person I feel a pattern across them that then in my mind translates into images of internal health information, which in itself is perhaps not interesting, but what makes it a claim that I still investigate is the accuracy in description of internal information that one should not have access to just by looking at a person.

I asked Mark to turn around and explained that I not only do not need eye contact but that it is distracting to me and for a volunteer to turn around also eliminates a lot of the potential cold reading that we do not want. We did not have a pen and paper at hand so I started collecting my impressions in my mind. I start from the head and work my way downwards, feeling into one part of the body at a time and noting if I feel something out of balance that would indicate a health problem, at which I would then look closer to form a description of what I feel.

I use no interaction with the person such as speaking or touching. I also like to write down my impressions as I read the person and to then put my pen away once I am done and that way nothing can be added or removed from my reading when I reveal my conclusions. But we had no paper this time.

There are hundreds of things to look at and to consider in a person when doing this kind of a reading. Even just the head has so many things to look at. The brain, eyes, ears, etc, and then there is a whole body to look at. It quickly becomes overwhelming and I always end up having to skip parts. When I do a reading it is not like having a blank sheet of paper with the few interesting bits of information already written on it and ready to pull out. Rather, it is like having to read a whole book with one chapter for each part of the body and searching for a particular keyword in amidst a vast amount of text. You end up not reading the whole book in the matter of minutes available after a dinner occasion and right before several of you are about to be in a hurry to catch the movie afterwards. You end up turning the pages and skimming and skipping parts and gathering what little you come up with, but knowing that you did not do a complete job.

A full and thorough head-to-toe reading takes from my experience a minimum of half an hour up to an hour or two. Imagine how much time it takes to do an autopsy examination of a person, or even to investigate an MRI. I did not do a complete reading of Mark, nor did I claim to have done. Therefore if I miss information that is there, this should by no means be held against my claim.

What made matters worse was that, in my impressions, Mark had the most fascinating intestines and I found myself gazing at them for the longest time and describing them in great detail to Mark. Even though, as I explained, there was no health problem there. It was just different, that's all it was. In most people, the way I see it, the outer surface along their intestines looks glossy and has a thick layer of the fluid that covers internal organs and reduces friction. Also, the color of the exterior of intestines tends to have darker colors. The outside of his intestines looked lacking in this layer of fluid, looked less inflated with fluid within the intestinal walls themselves, the color was more yellow across the outside, and there was more of the fat covering than I have seen in others. The fat was like soap or lard and I was describing its texture. It just looked so significantly different from "everybody else" that I ended up looking at that and describing it time after another. It also doesn't help that the small intestine is one of my favorite things to see.

After some time I decided to stop reading into him and to give him the information that I had so far. Before beginning to describe what I had seen or felt, I did tell him that if I don't mention something it does not mean that it is not there. I did try to explain, before sharing my impressions, that I had not done a complete reading, and that there may be things that he does have but that I had not seen or searched for. None of what I described should be of a personal or private nature so I can assume Mark does not mind it if I share it here, besides it is only the impressions of a woo and not an actual medical diagnose.

I said to him that I was highly surprised because I felt that his brain is mostly frontal lobe active and not occipital lobe. Frontal lobe deals with logical thinking and occipital with the more intuitive or visualized. Had I had to guess, since Mark has worked a great deal with giving, although knowingly fraudulent ones, psychic readings of many forms, that his brain would be very intuitive and emotional in its way of analyzing things, but here I was feeling that he rather uses his intellect and logic when forming conclusions. (In the first picture I am actually pointing to my frontal lobe and describing this!)

I said that he is well-nourished, and I rarely get to make that conclusion about a person. In my impressions, most people do not eat healthy enough to come across as what I would feel defines to be well nourished. It takes a lot of eating and not skipping meals and to make wise food choices to get all of the essential nutrients, and most people do not eat well enough.

I also said that another thing I rarely get to say, is that his spine is perfect. No back ache or issues with his spine. And that the inner lining of his stomach is thicker and better than in anyone I have ever seen before, therefore he has no stomach ulcers or problems with his stomach. I think that is all I said.

To hold my claim accountable for missed information is like asking you to quickly read an entire book in a matter of minutes, when you have not the time to read it nor the inclination as it was right after a dinner and before a movie, and to then quiz someone on virtually any part of the content of the book. "Here, have a book right after dinner, and take only a few minutes to read all of it, we don't have all night to let you sit and read it. Now, what was written on page 473, in the second paragraph, about the man's blood sugar regulation?" Could you do it? I am not a speed-reader.

Or, it is like going to the cardiologist, who runs plenty of tests on your heart and concludes on the health of your heart, and then you criticise their medical competence since they missed that you have skin cancer when they did not even test for it! I did not specifically check his blood sugar, nor pancreas, or other indications of diabetes, so how would I have known? Had I said that Mark does not have diabetes, that would have been evidence against the claim.

I look at a person and describe what I see from what I feel and my claim is then evaluated based on those descriptions. The accuracy or inaccuracy of the impressions that I have is what this claim must be evaluated against. My claim has never been that "I see all health information in a person". My claim is, and always has been since the very start, that, "when I look at people I perceive health information, and that health information would be accurate". I have never claimed to access all health information "that is considered to be there". This was even clearly stated in my very first letters to the IIG where I first described my claim even before joining this Forum several months later.

My claim is not falsified if I missed some information. My claim is falsified if the health information that I do describe with confidence and claim to have perceived, is confirmed to be inaccurate. I hope that I have made this distinction clear to those for whom it was not already clear.

Last edited by VisionFromFeeling; 19th April 2010 at 10:36 PM. Reason: ETA
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:19 PM   #21
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Oh I so hope that now will be the time that the "black out" comes into effect

Last edited by Trent Wray; 19th April 2010 at 10:46 PM. Reason: left out preposition :(
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:24 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Trent Wray View Post
Oh I so hope that now will the time that the "black out" comes into effect
I think Anita is beautiful.So what else is there to discuss.
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:34 PM   #23
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VfF, why didn't you just take longer to do the readings properly then? Tell someone at the time you needed more time. Otherwise this is just post-hoc rationalisation (i.e. making up excuses).

Also, if any physician failed to diagnose a condition accurately, anyone would surely say "he got that diagnosis wrong". And so did you for exactly that reason. So don't try to weasel-word your way out of your failures, please.
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:41 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
I think Anita is beautiful.So what else is there to discuss.
Don't tempt me Frodo !
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:41 PM   #25
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Well at least he has fascinating intestines. That would indicate that they were "out of the ordinary". Can that be verified?
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:42 PM   #26
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Amazing. Diabetes effects many things in the body, not just blood sugar regulation. The resulting problems impact the kidneys, blood vessels in the eyes, blood pressure, and even the nervous system. Of all the diseases to claim, "It wasn't apparent" she certainly picked an unlikely one!

Anita seems to be retreating further and further with her goalposts. I'm disappointed; there was a time when I thought she honestly wanted to see what was going on with her 'perceptions' but it's now clear she will only accept one explanation, and will explain away anything else.

Sigh.

MK
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:48 PM   #27
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusional
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Old 19th April 2010, 10:49 PM   #28
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Mark Edward has an excellent blog that invites controversial conversations about psychics. In his Sex in the Seance Room he discusses the close relationship researchers and mediums share throughout history. In this article VFF "outted" herself as the person he was writing about and admitted having a relationship with a prominent skeptic. She said, "I did begin dating a Skeptic. Not because I am a woo trying to infiltrate the skeptical community and plant chaos, but because beside all the other things that I am, I am also just a woman."

I have since come to learn that this skeptic Anita is now dating is Spencer Marks of the IIG. Some of you may recall this post from the discussion of Anita's IIG test:

Quote:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...16#post5346616
Only one member of the IIG was involved in the recruiting/organizing of test subjects, Spencer Marks. This was so that only one person would know who did, or did not, have a missing kidney.
(emphasis added)

The only mention of Marks by Anita in the immediate aftermath of the test was the following:
Quote:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...64#post5341064
If I remember correctly, no one else at the IIG received a hug from me. But Spencer gave me a hug. Spencer wore a shirt with the text Wrangler written on it.
To the best of my knowledge there was no relationship before the test, and there is no evidence whatsoever that anything inappropriate was done during the test. As a skeptic, though, I have to confess that I roll my eyes even more now when I think about the one "correct" answer she got. Not only was she aware of that person's existence before the test, but that person is a friend of a member here (Bookitty) who also participated in the IIG test. Bookitty says she did not reveal any information to Anita, and there's no evidence to indicate she's not being truthful.

Now we learn that Anita is in a long distance relationship with the only person who knew the targets and decoys for the test. Apparently she flew to California this past weekend and attended the IIG meeting with Spencer Marks, so while not publicized it's not a secret either. They are both certainly allowed whatever personal relationships they want.

However, I'm sure some skeptics other than myself find it all a bit curious. I have been assured that the IIG is aware of their relationship, and they are comfortable that the relationship began after the test was completed. There is no evidence that Marks and VFF had met or communicated prior to the test.

I have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with the situation, but there is no evidence that any leakage occurred. I think it's only fair to bring it up for the purposes of evaluating the results and the subsequent discussion about the test by Marks. Anita's love life is not a topic for discussion beyond its immediate potential impact in these limited areas. It seemed appropriate for this thread considering Mark Edward's blog entry.
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:02 PM   #29
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Replies...

Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
After watching her on the opening video I think Anita does have some connection with the paranormal. Yet she can't really explain it. From her body language she's seen something out of the ordinary.
Nonsense! Where did you lose your skepticism? Even if your assertion were correct, and I agree, it is entirely irrelevant for the investigation of my claim, whose outcome will be based solely on facts and evidence and any outward impressions or body language of the claimant is simply irrelevant.

Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
I think Anita is beautiful.So what else is there to discuss.
Irrelevant. Join Senex.

Originally Posted by Robo Sapien View Post
I call it attention seeking, a clear case of daddy issues.
Not attention seeking. From what I thought it was going to be just an informal dinner with friends and a quick investigation of my claim with a skeptic, until one of them pulled the camera out and started taking pictures.

Originally Posted by Zep View Post
VfF, why didn't you just take longer to do the readings properly then?
Because it was right after a late evening dinner and after a long fun-filled day of skepticism and right before some of us were about to run out to make it to the movie.

Originally Posted by Zep View Post
Tell someone at the time you needed more time. Otherwise this is just post-hoc rationalisation (i.e. making up excuses).
No. It is not post-hoc. Because I gave this explanation before sharing my impressions, that I had not taken the time to do a complete reading. And I would rather just check what little I had gathered so far for accuracy and still make it to the movie than to sit there all night and until the lights are turned off and everybody else goes home.

Originally Posted by Zep View Post
Also, if any physician failed to diagnose a condition accurately, anyone would surely say "he got that diagnosis wrong". And so did you for exactly that reason. So don't try to weasel-word your way out of your failures, please.
None of the "diagnoses" I made were confirmed inaccurate, although some perhaps not possible to check the accuracy of. Meanwhile there was information considered there that I did not present neither as there or as not there but that is not inaccuracy. A physician who does not run a particular and specific test has not done accuracy or inaccuracy in terms of that particular health information. They have simply not looked into it nor presented a conclusion regarding it. Please try to see how it is not a failure to say absolutely nothing, for or against, regarding a particular health information that is not checked for. Or I will explain it again.

Last edited by VisionFromFeeling; 19th April 2010 at 11:08 PM. Reason: privacy and ETA
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling View Post
Because it was right after a late evening dinner and after a long fun-filled day of skepticism and right before some of us were about to run out to make it to the movie.
You should have deferred the test then.

Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling View Post
No. It is not post-hoc. Because I gave this explanation before sharing my impressions, that I had not taken the time to do a complete reading. And I would rather just check what little I had gathered so far for accuracy and still make it to the movie than to sit there all night and until the lights are turned off and everybody else goes home.
Well, there you go. You were simply fishing for confirmation from the subject and not doing diagnosis at all. It is a classic form of cold-reading. Excuses aside...

Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling View Post
None of the "diagnoses" I made were confirmed inaccurate, although some perhaps not possible to check the accuracy of. Meanwhile there was information considered there that I did not present neither as there or not there but that is not inaccuracy. A physician who does not run a particular and specific test has not done accuracy or inaccuracy in terms of that particular health information. Please try to see how it is not a failure to say absolutely nothing, for or against, regarding a particular health information that is not checked for. Or I will explain it again.
No, you gave enough explanation. And sorry, but that is no excuse whatever. FAILURE TO DIAGNOSE is a failure, regardless of the reasons.

Again, if any doctor did not run a test that would have determined an accurate diagnosis, that would be a failure. If a doctor ran a test and failed to take notice of the findings or lack of findings*, that would be a failure. If a doctor diagnosed something but failed to tell anyone (or act), that would be a failure. Is that not clear to you?


*Pertinent example: An X-ray would probably make it clear if a patient has only one kidney instead of two, i.e. one missing. This would probably be deemed particularly relevant in cases of renal failure, nephritis, etc.

Last edited by Zep; 19th April 2010 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling View Post
No. It is not post-hoc. Because I gave this explanation before sharing my impressions, that I had not taken the time to do a complete reading. And I would rather just check what little I had gathered so far for accuracy and still make it to the movie than to sit there all night and until the lights are turned off and everybody else goes home.
I quoted you elsewhere where you say the perceptions come to you almost instantly and at most a minute or two. You shared a story where you allegedly detected a diaphragm in a woman who merely walked by a classroom door. At the IIG test you were able to verify the control subject was missing a kidney in just a matter of seconds. For the test you only required 4.5 minutes per subject. We could see a glimpse of your worksheet on the video, and it was quite clear that you were making multiple readings per subject in that 4.5 minutes. Clearly you are just making excuses about time.

You also state on your website that you are able to detect "common precursors" to diabetes, yet you missed it here. You've been around Mark far longer than the time you took to do a reading. You have told us before that serious health problems come to you "immediately."

When you first came here, you claimed you could detect ailments via photographs and video. When we tested you here (twice), you failed and withdrew the claim without bothering to explain how you could differentiate "real" perceptions from the ridiculously inaccurate ones you described.


The F-A-C-T group dismissed your readings on their members as meaningless and unimpressive. In your so-called "study" two of the three controls scored better than you. Your "survey" results contained factually inaccurate perceptions. You failed to complete the crushed pill study. You failed the IIG challenge.

And now we see yet another failure. You're not special. You're an ordinary human, not a 350 year old star person. Every claim we've been able to independently examine has demonstrated that there's nothing to be seen, and this includes your ridiculous ghost stories that are factually inaccurate and purely a figment of your imagination.

It's time to call it quits. Your claims have been given far more attention than they deserve. The skeptical part of the investigation is over whether you care to admit it or not.

Last edited by Uncayimmy; 19th April 2010 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:26 PM   #32
Trent Wray
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Why does anyone bother to engage her whatsoever?





And on that note .... my 2500th post was in a Mayday thread, and my 2501st post was in this one
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:45 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by VisionFromFeeling View Post
Nonsense! Where did you lose your skepticism? Even if your assertion were correct, and I agree, it is entirely irrelevant for the investigation of my claim, whose outcome will be based solely on facts and evidence and any outward impressions or body language of the claimant is simply irrelevant.
So you have self experienced a very small amount of paranormal tendencies which come and go without you having the power to control at will.So the 64 million dollar question is,how is your ability relevant to the helping of people in general?
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:51 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
So you have self experienced a very small amount of paranormal tendencies which come and go without you having the power to control at will.So the 64 million dollar question is,how is your ability relevant to the helping of people in general?
Others have told you to do some homework on her species' abilities (yes the irony is obvious). I think you'll find even a cursory examination of her attempts to be bogus .... now if you want to understand her psyche, this might help some:

Quote:
The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it -- really, how could you think they'd ever have said that? You need to have your head examined! They will contradict FACTS. They will lie to you about things that you did together. They will misquote you to yourself. If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying, making stuff up, or are crazy. [At this point, if you're like me, you sort of panic and want to talk to anyone who will listen about what is going on: this is a healthy reaction; it's a reality check ("who's the crazy one here?"); that you're confused by the narcissist's contrariness, that you turn to another person to help you keep your bearings, that you know something is seriously wrong and worry that it might be you are all signs that you are not a narcissist]. NOTE: Normal people can behave irrationally under emotional stress -- be confused, deny things they know, get sort of paranoid, want to be babied when they're in pain. But normal people recover pretty much within an hour or two or a day or two, and, with normal people, your expressions of love and concern for their welfare will be taken to heart. They will be stabilized by your emotional and moral support. Not so with narcissists -- the surest way I know of to get a crushing blow to your heart is to tell a narcissist you love her or him. They will respond with a nasty power move, such as telling you to do things entirely their way or else be banished from them for ever. ^
If you're like me, you get into disputes with narcissists over their casual dishonesty and cruelty to other people. Trying to reform narcissists by reasoning with them or by appealing to their better nature is about as effective as spitting in the ocean. What you see is what you get: they have no better nature. The fundamental problem here is that narcissists lack empathy.
Lacking empathy is a profound disturbance to the narcissist's thinking (cognition) and feeling (affectivity). Even when very intelligent, narcissists can't reason well. One I've worked with closely does something I characterize as "analysis by eggbeater." They don't understand the meaning of what people say and they don't grasp the meaning of the written word either -- because so much of the meaning of anything we say depends on context and affect, narcissists (lacking empathy and thus lacking both context and affect) hear only the words. (Discussions with narcissists can be really weird and disconcerting; they seem to think that using some of the same words means that they are following a line of conversation or reasoning. Thus, they will go off on tangents and irrelevancies, apparently in the blithe delusion that they understand what others are talking about.) And, frankly, they don't hear all the words, either. They can pay attention only to stuff that has them in it. This is not merely a bad habit -- it's a cognitive deficiency. Narcissists pay attention only to themselves and stuff that affects them personally. However, since they don't know what other people are doing, narcissists can't judge what will affect them personally and seem never to learn that when they cause trouble they will get trouble back. They won't take other people's feelings into consideration and so they overlook the fact that other people will react with feeling when abused or exploited and that most people get really pissed off by being lied to or lied about. ^
Narcissists lack a mature conscience and seem to be restrained only by fear of being punished or of damaging their reputations -- though, again, this can be obscure to casual observation if you don't know what they think their reputations are, and what they believe others think of them may be way out of touch with reality [see remarks on John Cheever elsewhere on this page]. Their moral intelligence is about at the level of a bright five- or six-year-old; the only rules they recognize are things that have been specifically required, permitted, prohibited, or disapproved of by authority figures they know personally. Anyhow, narcissists can't be counted on not to do something just because it's wrong, illegal, or will hurt someone, as long as they think that they can get away with it or that you can't stop them or punish them (i.e., they don't care what you think unless they're afraid of you). ^
Just so you know incase you want to compliment her again
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:04 AM   #35
VisionFromFeeling
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
So you have self experienced a very small amount of paranormal tendencies which come and go without you having the power to control at will.
I have experienced interesting cases of accurately describing health information that one should not have known during the circumstances at hand and I have failed to reasonably deny or to find explanations to this experience, therefore I formed a paranormal claim around this experience.

I investigate to determine two things: does the accuracy of my perceptions occur to a significant extent, and is the information I am describing such that should not be accessible to normal sensory reach ie. is there a possible extrasensory occurrence.

I currently do not have the answer to my claim and my favorite hypothesis is that I visually gather externally detectable information that is normally too subtle for one to notice consciously, and that I do so unintentionally and unknowing, and that it then synesthetically translates into corresponding health images and significance. With that said, there is no reason to consider the investigation I am doing as anything "paranormal", unless proven so, and until so happens or if not, we must consider other normal, and mundane explanations the basis of which we already have within our knowledge of the world.

Paranormal claim, yes, but nothing paranormal until/unless proven so. And currently not proven so.

Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
So the 64 million dollar question is,how is your ability relevant to the helping of people in general?
No ability has been confirmed. We can only talk about a "claim" but not of an "ability". My claim and its investigation I intend to be helpful as a contribution to skepticism and to provide a carefully disclosed and well-documented insight into some of the ideas within the otherwise evasive world of woo. But even if it were confirmed as a real ability of vision into the human body, I would never "use" it, since any medical diagnose that I would make with such a verified ability would still need to be made in the presence of a qualified practitioner of conventional medicine and each case of diagnosis always be confirmed by conventional means of diagnose before any actions be made based on what my perceptions saw.

So, no, the only use of my claim, whether concluded on as a real ability or not, would only come to serve useful in educational purposes and within the realm of skepticism only.

Last edited by VisionFromFeeling; 20th April 2010 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:14 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Trent Wray View Post
Others have told you to do some homework on her species' abilities (yes the irony is obvious). I think you'll find even a cursory examination of her attempts to be bogus .... now if you want to understand her psyche, this might help some:

Just so you know incase you want to compliment her again
I'm not convinced she should be labelled as a narcissist as you are portraying.

It's a definitive NO from me.
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:23 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
From her body language she's seen something out of the ordinary.
I did fnd the body language in the videos interesting.

Perhaps it is coincidence, but the body language of Anita at the start of each of the eight videos displayed at http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...A7A6B43293DF73 provides an intereting story itself.
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:28 AM   #38
VisionFromFeeling
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I have been called many things by internet Skeptics in intent to disqualify my credibility and reliability to present a paranormal claim for investigation. When there is lack of criticism against the claim itself, or when such critique has proven unfruitful in dismaying me from further investigation, attack is targeted at me personally instead.

I must insist that my claim and investigation are not for me to gain attention to myself. It should even be obvious from these most recent videos how shy I am in situations dealing with this claim, and you can imagine how awkward this subject matter is to me considering that my real life involves being just a science student and future research scientist in conventional physics. I present my claim in an impersonal manner, hoping that it be considered for what it is or is not, with no regard to who I am as a person presenting my claim.

Any remarks against me on the personal level that are obviously intended negatively, such as calling me liar, fraud, delusional, or narcissistic, do not accurately depict the nature of this particular claim and from this particular claimant. I consider such remarks to be irrelevant, and any insulting or hurtful effect of these remarks on me, I must also hold as equally irrelevant to the real topic of discussion, that is a true and genuine paranormal claim, which still in spite of your best wishes that it be over, has not reached a final conclusion yet.
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:30 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I did fnd the body language in the videos interesting.

Perhaps it is coincidence, but the body language of Anita at the start of each of the eight videos displayed at http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...A7A6B43293DF73 provides an intereting story itself.
I'm talking about her body language in the opening of the first video.

I've been among people who have used similar body language,and they have paranormal abilities.
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Old 20th April 2010, 12:31 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by likelystory View Post
I'm not convinced she should be labelled as a narcissist as you are portraying.

It's a definitive NO from me.
She's only a half a narcissist

The other half is unknown ... waiting to be reinvented. It's the reason behind the "investigations". Are you going to reinvent Anita for her?

Last edited by Trent Wray; 20th April 2010 at 12:36 AM. Reason: added thought
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