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Tags cures , healing , health , health care

View Poll Results: Do you think the body can cure itself of incurable diseases?
yes 8 5.67%
no 133 94.33%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 30th April 2010, 08:43 AM   #1
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How powerful is human immune system?

I'm new here and because this seems like it might be a place open to discussing the body's natural ability to eliminate disease causing pathogens without any help from modern technology, gimmicks or gadgets I thought I would kick it around some here.

It is my opinion Keven Trudeau has paved the way for a whole new alternative world of gimmicks and scams. I believe he is the worst thing to happen to truth and understanding of the truth about health and healing.

Certainly everyone here is aware that most if not all alternative medicine continually fails double and triple blind studies, but when used by a trained alternative specialist the methods tend to get results, some better than others.

Anyone willing to discuss how the body is designed to eliminate all pathogens and remain disease free without the use of modern technology or Kevin Trudeau?

Possible discussion points.

Is there any truth to Western Medicine. (Relevant because they claim there are no cures for diseases the body is designed to cure.)

Is there any truth to Alternative Medicine? (Or is it all placebo effect?)

Does the body have an immune response designed to kill disease causing pathogens and if so what is getting in the way?

Does a person have the ability to direct their immune response the same as they direct their conscious activities?

How much of the 90 or 95% of the brain not used is responsible for our health and well being? (If we are designed to heal, clearly we are not using the program.)

That's a good start.
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Old 30th April 2010, 08:46 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
I'm new here and because this seems like it might be a place open to discussing the body's natural ability to eliminate disease causing pathogens without any help from modern technology, gimmicks or gadgets I thought I would kick it around some here.

It is my opinion Keven Trudeau has paved the way for a whole new alternative world of gimmicks and scams. I believe he is the worst thing to happen to truth and understanding of the truth about health and healing.

Certainly everyone here is aware that most if not all alternative medicine continually fails double and triple blind studies, but when used by a trained alternative specialist the methods tend to get results, some better than others.

Anyone willing to discuss how the body is designed to eliminate all pathogens and remain disease free without the use of modern technology or Kevin Trudeau?

Possible discussion points.

Is there any truth to Western Medicine. (Relevant because they claim there are no cures for diseases the body is designed to cure.)

Is there any truth to Alternative Medicine? (Or is it all placebo effect?)

Does the body have an immune response designed to kill disease causing pathogens and if so what is getting in the way?

Does a person have the ability to direct their immune response the same as they direct their conscious activities?

How much of the 90 or 95% of the brain not used is responsible for our health and well being? (If we are designed to heal, clearly we are not using the program.)

That's a good start.
I suggest you narrow down your questions. There are way too many random points to cover which could fill several textbooks.

BTW: There is no "western" medicine. There is only medicine. Either it works or it doesn't and the whole "you only use 10% of your brain" is nonsense. You use 100% of your brain.
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Old 30th April 2010, 08:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by paximperium View Post
I suggest you narrow down your questions. There are way too many random points to cover which could fill several textbooks.

BTW: There is no "western" medicine. There is only medicine. Either it works or it doesn't and the whole "you only use 10% of your brain" is nonsense. You use 100% of your brain.
I think it will work out. You believe you use 100% of your brain, can you qualify that? Are you disease free? Or do you not believe the body cannot cure diseases said to be incurable by "western" medicine?

If a person believes the body does not have the ability to cure incurable diseases it would suggest they do not use 100% of their brain.
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Old 30th April 2010, 08:55 AM   #4
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Kevin Trudeau is evil.

He makes money knowingly peddling lies to sick people.
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Old 30th April 2010, 08:57 AM   #5
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Poll question makes no sense. If a disease is incurable, it cannot - by definition - be cured, whether by the body or by anything else.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:01 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Complexity View Post
Kevin Trudeau is evil.

He makes money knowingly peddling lies to sick people.
Yes he is and yes he does but he is not as evil as those who see to it that people are gullible enough to fall for the lies. Kevin belongs under a rock but the people who paved the way for him deserve worse. That would be both western and alternative medicine.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:02 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
You believe you use 100% of your brain, can you qualify that?
I don't believe, I know I use 100% of my brain. You just never use all at the same time. The entire literature in Neuroscience says so.
Quote:
Are you disease free?
And this is relevant...how?
Quote:
Or do you not believe the body cannot cure diseases said to be incurable by "western" medicine?
Sure. I don't believe having half of your brain shot off by a gun is curable or having a massive aortic dissection is curable in any way or form.
Quote:
If a person believes the body does not have the ability to cure incurable diseases it would suggest they do not use 100% of their brain.
So you believe that you can cure Congestive Heart Failure and a a ruptured aorta? Do tell.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:03 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle View Post
Poll question makes no sense. If a disease is incurable, it cannot - by definition - be cured, whether by the body or by anything else.
It makes sense. A disease said to be incurable is only opinion. Do you believe the body can cure diseases said to be incurable. I will see about editing it so there is nothing that can be misconstrued.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
Yes he is and yes he does but he is not as evil as those who see to it that people are gullible enough to fall for the lies. Kevin belongs under a rock but the people who paved the way for him deserve worse. That would be both western and alternative medicine.
Help me out please. What is western Medicine?
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:05 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
I think it will work out. You believe you use 100% of your brain, can you qualify that? Are you disease free? Or do you not believe the body cannot cure diseases said to be incurable by "western" medicine?

If a person believes the body does not have the ability to cure incurable diseases it would suggest they do not use 100% of their brain.
Emphasis added... if you do not use 100% of your brain, why are brain injuries such a big deal? Why does even minor damage to the brain have a profound effect on the person? If you only needed 15% (or whatever) of your brain, you could whack off huge chunks of it and not affect the person at all. In fact, that is not the way it works.

I agree with Paximperium that you should trim the questions down a bit. Otherwise it will be really tough to stay on topic.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:07 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Amapola View Post
Emphasis added... if you do not use 100% of your brain, why are brain injuries such a big deal? Why does even minor damage to the brain have a profound effect on the person? If you only needed 15% (or whatever) of your brain, you could whack off huge chunks of it and not affect the person at all. In fact, that is not the way it works.

I agree with Paximperium that you should trim the questions down a bit. Otherwise it will be really tough to stay on topic.
Well, you can in fact whack off quite a bit of the brain without any ill affect because the brain has a certain amount of plasticity. Neurosurgeons count of that when the remove huge chucks of the brain during surgery.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:08 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
It makes sense. A disease said to be incurable is only opinion. Do you believe the body can cure diseases said to be incurable. I will see about editing it so there is nothing that can be misconstrued.
Well that depends on in whose opinion is it incurable....

I certainly don't believe that the body could have cured my niece's congenitally deformed heart. "Western medicine" did very nicely with the heart transplant though. I don't think my mam's body could have cured her Addison's disease either, but again medicine is providing the missing hormones to enable her to live a normal life.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:09 AM   #13
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Theres a term for the immune system seemingly and miraculously healing from what appeared to be a fatal disease but hose instances are few and far between. Some very few people seem to be immune to aids and such but i have never heard of someone infected with say herpes getting completely over the disease.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:10 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by paximperium View Post
Well, you can in fact whack off quite a bit of the brain without any ill affect because the brain has a certain amount of plasticity. Neurosurgeons count of that when the remove huge chucks of the brain during surgery.
Wow, no kidding! That's pretty cool.

So why do strokes and things have such a profound effect on people? Is it just certain parts of the brain? I wear a helmet when taking part in certain activities just to keep my brain safe. I'm not keen on getting concussions and so on as I had always heard they can really mess you up.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by paximperium View Post
I don't believe, I know I use 100% of my brain. You just never use all at the same time. The entire literature in Neuroscience says so.
And this is relevant...how?
Sure. I don't believe having half of your brain shot off by a gun is curable or having a massive aortic dissection is curable in any way or form.
So you believe that you can cure Congestive Heart Failure and a a ruptured aorta? Do tell.
Aren't we a little argumentative?

Since we are so bold about what we "know" I do happen to know that there is no "incurable" disease. As for you asking if I can cure a ruptured aorta, no reply needed, argumentative with no logic or reason. I could have prevented it though.

I suggest that you do not use 100% of your brain and if you have diseases that PROVES it. Had you used your natural immune response you would still have all your aorta? Judging by your argumentative nature here you are probably lucky to be alive. I suspect you are on the verge of a cerebral hemorrhage now.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:14 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by learner View Post
Help me out please. What is western Medicine?
"western medicine" can probably be easiest defined as all medicine governed and powered by pharmaceutical companies. You know use a drug to control signs and symptoms but be damn sure you don't cure the disease.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:14 AM   #17
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@ShareCures: so you think the brain is the immune system?
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:16 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
Since we are so bold about what we "know" I do happen to know that there is no "incurable" disease. As for you asking if I can cure a ruptured aorta, no reply needed, argumentative with no logic or reason. I could have prevented it though.
So that's a no in curing an actual incurable disease.
Quote:
I suggest that you do not use 100% of your brain and if you have diseases that PROVES it.
That is called a logical fallacy or in the real world, plain old nonsense.
Quote:
Had you used your natural immune response you would still have all your aorta?
Nah. The patient is fine. Saved his life. He has a nice Gortex aorta at the moment. Nothing beats real medicine.
Quote:
Judging by your argumentative nature here you are probably lucky to be alive. I suspect you are on the verge of a cerebral hemorrhage now.
How cute. Are you claiming you can cure a Grade 4 subarachnoid hemorrhage with cerebral herniation too?
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:18 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Theres a term for the immune system seemingly and miraculously healing from what appeared to be a fatal disease but hose instances are few and far between. Some very few people seem to be immune to aids and such but i have never heard of someone infected with say herpes getting completely over the disease.
BINGO! Thanks for staying on topic.

There we go, it is known that the body can cure diseases said to be incurable. Often the cures are linked to placebo treatments.

They are rare indeed but why are they rare? I suggest it is because people are educated to accept medicine, medicine's word and lies which has lead people to totally disregard their natural immune response and it's intended functions of what........................immunity.

People do not use their immune response and as such they do not use all their natural capabilities and as such they do not use 100% of their brain.

There is no incurable disease only incurable people.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:19 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Amapola View Post
Wow, no kidding! That's pretty cool.

So why do strokes and things have such a profound effect on people? Is it just certain parts of the brain? I wear a helmet when taking part in certain activities just to keep my brain safe. I'm not keen on getting concussions and so on as I had always heard they can really mess you up.
It depends on the location of the stroke. Some small strokes are catastrophic while many strokes are "silent" because they occur in none critical parts of the brain.

However long term damage from such problems lead to dementia down the road.

You've probably heard of hemispherectomy where half the brain is removed in patient's with severe seizures? This can be done to children with decent results(they are not exactly 100% normal) because the remaining brain is extremely plastic and can take over the function of the removed part.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:20 AM   #21
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My niece hadn't been conditioned to accept medicine, she was born with the deformed heart. Why didn't her body just cure it while she was still in the womb?
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:21 AM   #22
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If illness is caused by people being conditioned to accept medicine, then why did medicineappear in the first place? Before medicine there would have been no illnesses to cure so no need to develop medicine.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:22 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
There we go, it is known that the body can cure diseases said to be incurable. Often the cures are linked to placebo treatments.

They are rare indeed but why are they rare? I suggest it is because people are educated to accept medicine, medicine's word and lies which has lead people to totally disregard their natural immune response and it's intended functions of what........................immunity.

People do not use their immune response and as such they do not use all their natural capabilities and as such they do not use 100% of their brain.

There is no incurable disease only incurable people.
So do tell about how your immune pseudo-nonsense can be used to cure an aortic dissection or how about Down's Syndrome? Or perhaps Sickle Cell Disease? Or how about Fulminant Hepatitis B? Or gangrene? Do tell.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:23 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
"western medicine" can probably be easiest defined as all medicine governed and powered by pharmaceutical companies. You know use a drug to control signs and symptoms but be damn sure you don't cure the disease.
Antibiotics. You fail.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by paximperium View Post
So that's a no in curing an actual incurable disease.
That is called a logical fallacy or in the real world, plain old nonsense.
Nah. The patient is fine. Saved his life. He has a nice Gortex aorta at the moment. Nothing beats real medicine.
How cute. Are you claiming you can cure a Grade 4 subarachnoid hemorrhage with cerebral herniation too?
No I am saying you personally don't use 100% of your brain. I'm saying you don't want people to know they can use 100% of their brain to improve their health and cure diseases YOU can't cure.

I'm saying you are scared of the truth and nothing I can say to you will make you even remotely interested in the body's natural ability to engage its own immune system and response in order to eliminate diseases caused by pathogens even disease said to be incurable.

For the record, the body can cure diseases said to be incurable if the body uses it's immune system and response as intended.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:23 AM   #26
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
"western medicine" can probably be easiest defined as all medicine governed and powered by pharmaceutical companies. You know use a drug to control signs and symptoms but be damn sure you don't cure the disease.
...and there we have it.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:25 AM   #28
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Go on then, enlighten us.

How exactly would the immune system fix a structural defect, for example a single ventricle heart condition?
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:26 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
No I am saying you personally don't use 100% of your brain. I'm saying you don't want people to know they can use 100% of their brain to improve their health and cure diseases YOU can't cure.
Reality falsifies your claim. Name a single part of the brain that is not used.
Quote:
I'm saying you are scared of the truth and nothing I can say to you will make you even remotely interested in the body's natural ability to engage its own immune system and response in order to eliminate diseases caused by pathogens even disease said to be incurable.
Sorry. But please stop projecting your own insecurities at others. People actually are educated in the nonsense you are spewing.
Quote:
For the record, the body can cure diseases said to be incurable if the body uses it's immune system and response as intended.
So your claim that it can cure incurable diseases is false.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:27 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
No I am saying you personally don't use 100% of your brain. I'm saying you don't want people to know they can use 100% of their brain to improve their health and cure diseases YOU can't cure.
Every part of this is factually false, sorry. It's also a logical fallacy, the appeal to motive.

Quote:
I'm saying you are scared of the truth and nothing I can say to you will make you even remotely interested in the body's natural ability to engage its own immune system and response in order to eliminate diseases caused by pathogens even disease said to be incurable.
Appeal to motive.

Quote:
For the record, the body can cure diseases said to be incurable if the body uses it's immune system and response as intended.
Evidence?
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:28 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
I suggest that you do not use 100% of your brain and if you have diseases that PROVES it.
I must have missed one or two steps in this proof. Would you care to elaborate?

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Old 30th April 2010, 09:28 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by paximperium View Post
So do tell about how your immune pseudo-nonsense can be used to cure an aortic dissection or how about Down's Syndrome? Or perhaps Sickle Cell Disease? Or how about Fulminant Hepatitis B? Or gangrene? Do tell.
Are you having problems with your own superiority? I'm not concerned with curing aortic dissection, down's syndrome sickle cell disease.

I'm concerned with curing the underlying cause for them and preventing the permanent damage you must work with, and god bless you for helping these people but you could have helped prevent them if you were inclined to put less importance on yourself and your title and more emphasis on the truth.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:29 AM   #33
paximperium
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Originally Posted by devnull View Post
...and there we have it.
Just about.
Back to a more relevant point.
The mind/brain does have an effect on the immune system. Partially from hormonal and some specialized endocrine functions of the brain. A severe depressed person with significant stress hormones(cortisol being one of them) can lead to a depressed immune function.

However, the immune system is basically autonomous. You can place someone under full anesthesia and shut down the brain and the immune system with chug along just fine without it.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:30 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
"western medicine" can probably be easiest defined as all medicine governed and powered by pharmaceutical companies.
Oh. I'm a physician and I don't know anyone who practices "western medicine", then. Isn't it kind of pointless to ask about a form of medicine that probably nobody here practices or has little contact with?

Your immune system deals with the vast majority of problems thrown at it. Only a few slip through - most of which can be prevented, cured, treated or managed by medicine in its current form (not "western medicine"), and presumably more as medicine progresses. There are also many conditions which the immune system has no effect on - an aortic dissection would serve as a good example.

Quote:
You know use a drug to control signs and symptoms but be damn sure you don't cure the disease.
There are many drugs which cure disease. Antibiotics cure infections. Chemotherapy cures cancer. Vitamin supplements cure deficiency syndromes. Corticosteroids cure glomerulonephritis. Immunosuppressive drugs cure Wegener's. The list goes on.

Linda
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:31 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
BINGO! Thanks for staying on topic.
You mean "Thanks for saying something I could misconstrue as agreement."

Disagreement and being off-topic are different things.

Quote:
There we go, it is known that the body can cure diseases said to be incurable. Often the cures are linked to placebo treatments.

They are rare indeed but why are they rare? I suggest it is because people are educated to accept medicine, medicine's word and lies which has lead people to totally disregard their natural immune response and it's intended functions of what........................immunity.

People do not use their immune response and as such they do not use all their natural capabilities and as such they do not use 100% of their brain.

There is no incurable disease only incurable people.
I'm waiting for the sales pitch:

"And I can tell you how to access your brain's NATURAL healing ability for a small donation to my Expose the Lies of Western Medicine Foundation..."
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:31 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
Are you having problems with your own superiority? I'm not concerned with curing aortic dissection, down's syndrome sickle cell disease.
I kind of got that.
Quote:
I'm concerned with curing the underlying cause for them and preventing the permanent damage you must work with, and god bless you for helping these people but you could have helped prevent them if you were inclined to put less importance on yourself and your title and more emphasis on the truth.
Emphasis on the truth is why I find your simplistic uneducated claims insulting.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:32 AM   #37
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OK then, how would the immune system go about curing the underlying cause of a congenital heart deformity, or sickle cell disease?

Please, I really want you to educate me.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:34 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by IXP View Post
I must have missed one or two steps in this proof. Would you care to elaborate?

IXP
Though it has been ignored completely the body has the ability to eliminate all pathogens and because disease is not genetic pathogens are the only cause of disease. If you eliminate pathogens before the cause irreversible damage there is no need for the doc above.

The only thing between a disease and a cure is the same thing that gets between any one and a task they do or do not do. The only thing preventing someone from curing a disease said to be incurable is the lack of applying oneself appropriately.

You have the natural design to cure any pathogen and because diseases thought to be genetic are indeed diseases brought on by pathogens passed from one generation to the next often in the womb these diseases can be cured to. One must use what they have been designed with and that means using SOMETHING YOU HAVE NOT USED IN THE PAST.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:34 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
You know use a drug to control signs and symptoms but be damn sure you don't cure the disease.
Isn't that their job though? To have ways to help people no matter the underlying reason why, like diet? It's not like it's a state secret that being overweight is a bad thing. We're inundated everywhere with this knowledge. It's not like doctors can tell smokers that they can't get operated on because the cancer was preventable. People who run gyms, trainers, dietitians, et cetera; it's their job to help people get in shape.

Last edited by Harry Lime Juice; 30th April 2010 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 30th April 2010, 09:35 AM   #40
paximperium
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Originally Posted by fls View Post
Your immune system deals with the vast majority of problems thrown at it. Only a few slip through - most of which can be prevented, cured, treated or managed by medicine in its current form (not "western medicine"), and presumably more as medicine progresses. There are also many conditions which the immune system has no effect on - an aortic dissection would serve as a good example.
Well to nitpick, aortic dissection actually involves more than the shearing forces that tear the aorta. There appears to be a significant inflammatory response that lead to the original injury that created the channel. Whether it is contributory or a result of the dissection is question at present....well except for Marfan's Disease, that' purely genetic and mechanical.
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