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Old 22nd May 2010, 05:46 PM   #1
Cainkane1
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Does the Mahabharata describe an ancient atomic war?

Watching a program about ancient alien commings and going on earth in ancient times I saw Von Daniken describe how the Mahabharata tells of cities destroyed in ancient times by atmic weapons. Its hogwash of course but does anyone know anything about this?
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Old 22nd May 2010, 06:17 PM   #2
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I read several of Von Daniken's books many years ago, and they are still hanging around somewhere in my library. Nobody can be right about everything, but some people can be wrong about everything. Von Daniken is in the latter category.

After Chariots of the Gods, an Australian right wing religious nutter, Clifford Wilson, who dabbles in Archaeology, came out with a book Crash Goes the Chariots, which utterly debunks everything major that was published in the former book.

I agree with Wilson in this case. Von Daniken is, to put it politically correctly, evidence deprived.

Norm.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 06:38 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Its hogwash of course but does anyone know anything about this?
Yes, I know a lot about hogwash - and I learned most of it from von Daniken.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 07:29 PM   #4
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I read "Chariots of the Gods" in 6th grade and I called BS at that young age.

My 6th grade mind was why is this a secret? Why isn't this stuff in my text books? It's bulloney is why.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 09:04 PM   #5
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I have read pretty much the entire Mahabharata.

Lots of wars, but there are hardly any cities being destroyed in that epic. Its been some time, but from what I can remember, they mention divine weapons which can destroy vast areas of land. And the one time one of the said weapons is used, it is used as a precision guided weapon to kill a fetus.

There is one mention of a flying chariot.

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Old 22nd May 2010, 09:48 PM   #6
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Back in the '70's, the PBS show "Nova" did an episode about Von Daniken. He admitted that some of the things in his books aren't true. This is from answers.com:

Quote:
More crucial to his credibility, however, von Däniken admitted to falsifying his presentation. In an interview on the PBS Nova science program on television in 1978, he confessed that he had not really explored an artifact-filled cave in South America as claimed in his book The Gold of the Gods (1973). In fact the artifacts were brass, not gold. He admitted: "No that did not happen, but I think when somebody writes books in my style and in my sense, which are not scientific books, we call it in German 'Sachbucher.' It's a kind of popular book but it's not science fiction, though all the facts do exist but with other interpretations. Then an author is allowed to use effects. So some little things like this are not really important because they do not touch the facts …"
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Old 23rd May 2010, 04:59 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Watching a program about ancient alien commings and going on earth in ancient times I saw Von Daniken describe how the Mahabharata tells of cities destroyed in ancient times by atmic weapons. Its hogwash of course but does anyone know anything about this?
lol. I know everything about this, but first, can you tell me if its this quote that is responsible for the claim

Originally Posted by Mahabharata
Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendor. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas.
then I'll tell you the quotes origins
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Old 23rd May 2010, 05:06 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bolasanibk View Post
There is one mention of a flying chariot.
Isn't there one of those in the Iliad, too?
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Old 23rd May 2010, 05:12 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Isn't there one of those in the Iliad, too?
every ancient culture has them, YHWH even had one

but as you can see, theyre not very aerodynamic

I found a nice illustration of it in a really good book

though the authors name escapes me it does sound very familiar
Originally Posted by EVD
we call it in German 'Sachbucher.'
squirming there wasn't he, Sachbuch in english means "special book". Usually in English thats transliterated like this
sPeShUl

Last edited by LashL; 23rd May 2010 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Removed quoted moderated content and response
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Old 23rd May 2010, 06:39 AM   #10
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I read Erich Von Daniken's books at a very young age and he did teach me some valuable lessons and inspired me. It was then that I learned you could write almost anything and as long as you wrote like you were the top authority on the subject you could sell a ton of books and create a following, no matter how much bs you write. Keeping in mind i was about ten or eleven, I can remember thinking how I could come up with better material and make a fortune, but alas, all my manuscripts still sit on my shelves.

Reading this thread I see I wasn't the only kid who, at an early age, knew what the definition of "proof" was and how EvD didn't have any, not one iota, of it.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 06:49 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Starthinker View Post
I read Erich Von Daniken's books at a very young age and he did teach me some valuable lessons and inspired me. It was then that I learned you could write almost anything and as long as you wrote like you were the top authority on the subject you could sell a ton of books and create a following, no matter how much bs you write. Keeping in mind i was about ten or eleven, I can remember thinking how I could come up with better material and make a fortune, but alas, all my manuscripts still sit on my shelves.

Reading this thread I see I wasn't the only kid who, at an early age, knew what the definition of "proof" was and how EvD didn't have any, not one iota, of it.
This forum can't make you productive. It can make your bulloney detector go off earlier than it would.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 07:00 AM   #12
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This is not "You Know You are Getting Old When" thread but I actually heard Von Daniken speak once. ISTR he was somewhat on in years at the time. He spoke to an audience of computer professionals and possibly no one but me knew who he was.

As far as the OP is concerned, the best evidence that no atomic weapons were used is the lack of any radioactive areas in India that would have resulted and existed to this day.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 07:42 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
As far as the OP is concerned, the best evidence that no atomic weapons were used is the lack of any radioactive areas in India that would have resulted and existed to this day.
I would have thought the best evidence was that there is no evidence at all that any artificial nuclear explosion occurred anywhere on earth before 1945.
Pseudo authors have often lied about the Radioactive after effects of ancient nukes,

David Hatcher Childress for instance stated in one of his books that radioactive skeletons were found in the ruins of Harappa around 1900 which proves the city was destroyed by an alien nuclear explosion, This is one of those claims held up as proof by pseudo history lovers all the time. A mention of the fact that the geiger counter wasn't invented until 1928 usually kills that one pretty quick.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 07:47 AM   #14
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Oh my f-word-ing anthropomorphic deity!

Marduk's first picture, bottom right-

I SEE CHARLES DARWIN!
At least through the cell phone screen...

Its proof! Darwin received knowledge form aliens! Gonna write a book and make amillion bucks!
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Old 23rd May 2010, 07:52 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
Oh my f-word-ing anthropomorphic deity!

Marduk's first picture, bottom right-

I SEE CHARLES DARWIN!
At least through the cell phone screen...

Its proof! Darwin received knowledge form aliens! Gonna write a book and make amillion bucks!
Too late, its already a tenet of Jehovahs Witnesses that Jehovah travelled here from the pleaides on a rocket chair
http://www.bible.ca/Jw-changes.htm#JehovahOnPleiades
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Old 23rd May 2010, 07:55 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Isn't there one of those in the Iliad, too?
Have you actually seen a literal translation of the Illiad The Mahabharata filled up my quota of long, overwinded , boring epics filled with pointless descriptions.

But seriously, as has already been mentioned there are plenty of mythologies which refer to flying chariots. My point was that if they were in common use, in the Mahabharata there would be lot more references to it. Not just one.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 07:55 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mahabharata
Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendor. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas.

Apparently the so called race that was destroyed was of the human race. The intact skeletons I saw looked pretty human to me and not alien at all. These people were often seen hugging and holding hands as they died and I think they were overcome by fire and smoke from a burning city. Nothing atomic about it. Citys get burned in wartime.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 07:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
I read several of Von Daniken's books many years ago, and they are still hanging around somewhere in my library. Nobody can be right about everything, but some people can be wrong about everything. Von Daniken is in the latter category.

After Chariots of the Gods, an Australian right wing religious nutter, Clifford Wilson, who dabbles in Archaeology, came out with a book Crash Goes the Chariots, which utterly debunks everything major that was published in the former book.

I agree with Wilson in this case. Von Daniken is, to put it politically correctly, evidence deprived.

Norm.
Like many young impressionable teenagers I was fascinated by the "Ancient astronauts" theories. Then I read "The Space Gods Revealed" by Ronald Story which set about debunking Von Daniken's "evidence" and showing him up to the be the deceptive crook he was.

http://www.amazon.com/Space-Gods-Rev...tt_at_ep_dpt_4
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Old 23rd May 2010, 07:58 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
lol. I know everything about this, but first, can you tell me if its this quote that is responsible for the claim



then I'll tell you the quotes origins
I am curious, could you tell me the origin of the quote?
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Old 23rd May 2010, 08:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by bolasanibk View Post
I am curious, could you tell me the origin of the quote?
It was invented by David Hatcher Childress for his book entitled "Vimana Aircraft of Ancient India & Atlantis" which was published in 1991, he claimed it was from the Mahabarararatatattat, but it isn't.

where do you want to go now ?
Volcanic Libyan Nuclear desert Glass, weathervanes flying bird models from the tombs of the ancient pharoahs or Mesoamerican delta winged insects aircraft jewellery


btw, did you know the common depiction of Shiva can only be possible with time travel, the F.T's claim that he was armed with a trident nuclear missile, shown here holding it in his back right hand
http://smsjokes.co.in/wp-content/upl...0/02/shiva.gif

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Old 23rd May 2010, 08:28 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
It was invented by David Hatcher Childress for his book entitled "Vimana Aircraft of Ancient India & Atlantis" which was published in 1991, he claimed it was from the Mahabarararatatattat, but it isn't.

where do you want to go now ?
Volcanic Libyan Nuclear desert Glass, weathervanes flying bird models from the tombs of the ancient pharoahs or Mesoamerican delta winged insects aircraft
Thanks. I already knew it wasnt in the Mahabharata. I could not place the source with a google search.

As for which theory to destroy examine next, let me just check in with my NWO handler and I will get back to you.

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Old 23rd May 2010, 08:34 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
btw, did you know the common depiction of Shiva can only be possible with time travel, the F.T's claim that he was armed with a trident nuclear missile, shown here holding it in his back right hand
Naah, he just stole it from Neptune.

F.T's ???
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Old 23rd May 2010, 08:53 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
Oh my f-word-ing anthropomorphic deity!

Marduk's first picture, bottom right-

I SEE CHARLES DARWIN!
At least through the cell phone screen...

Its proof! Darwin received knowledge form aliens! Gonna write a book and make amillion bucks!

Observe the alien patiently explaining the theory of species diversity to the primitive Victorian, scissor-tailed flycatcher in hand, various branching symbols describing its evolution, no doubt.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 08:55 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by bolasanibk View Post
Naah, he just stole it from Neptune.
Who stole it from Poseidon, who stole it from Bel Marduk

with whom it is known as the storm weapon
for obvious reasons


Originally Posted by bolasanibk View Post
F.T's ???
Fringe Theorist
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Old 23rd May 2010, 09:04 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Isn't there one of those in the Iliad, too?

Why do you hate the Iliad?
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Old 23rd May 2010, 09:13 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Cos its a poem
thats enough surely
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Old 23rd May 2010, 09:16 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Watching a program about ancient alien commings and going on earth in ancient times I saw Von Daniken describe how the Mahabharata tells of cities destroyed in ancient times by atmic weapons. Its hogwash of course but does anyone know anything about this?

Well I don't "know" anything about it because I wasn't there.

But I do know that the up-close "UFO" that a friend and I saw looks a hell of a lot like a UFO depicted in some renaissance art.

As for Von Daniken, I never read him. I got the gist of his idea though.

I've read Alien Identities : Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena, and it was very interesting. I recommend it.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 09:20 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post

But I do know that the up-close "UFO" that a friend and I saw looks a hell of a lot like a UFO depicted in some renaissance art.
.
Would you like UFOs in renaissance art explained or are you happy believing that religious artists who belonged to religious orders would start painting non religious technology in religious themed paintings ?

http://sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_eng.htm

Last edited by Marduk; 23rd May 2010 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 09:32 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Would you like UFOs in renaissance art explained or are you happy believing that religious artists who belonged to religious orders would start painting non religious technology in religious themed paintings ?

Oh how can I resist? Please do explain it to me Marduk.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 09:40 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Oh how can I resist? Please do explain it to me Marduk.
You lose 5 points there for not saying "oh Marduk"

I posted the link in my previous post, I wasn't being clever, actually I was being stupid because I couldn't remember the name of the webpage, so it lagged behind my text a little


my favourite is sputnik

http://sprezzatura.it/Arte/Trinita_S..._Montalcin.jpg

Edited by LashL:  Removed breach of Rule 5, hotlinked image



which appears in the "ESALTATION OF THE EUCARISTY"

Last edited by LashL; 23rd May 2010 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 10:02 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
You lose 5 points there for not saying "oh Marduk"

Oh woe is me!

Well, then you lose 5 points for assuming you or that link can explain anything to me. What arrogance! You lose 5 more for assuming you grok my beliefs about all this. More arrogance! You think you know me or this subject well enough to be of any use to me? Ha! Not bloody likely.

You lose 5 more for assuming that I am happy believing what I do believe. I have mixed feelings. I might be happier having the simple beliefs and mundane experiences of people like you.
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"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

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Old 23rd May 2010, 11:18 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Oh woe is me!

Well, then you lose 5 points for assuming you or that link can explain anything to me.
Weren't the pictures simple enough for you to understand. I can get a five year old in to explain it to you if neccesary

Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
What arrogance! You lose 5 more for assuming you grok my beliefs about all this.
You have beliefs ?
how quaint, do you mind if the rest of us sane people stick with fact based empirical data
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
More arrogance! You think you know me or this subject well enough to be of any use to me? Ha! Not bloody likely.
Well thats why I linked to a page written by a famous Italian renaissance art expert, do you think you know more about renaissance art than he does ?
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
You lose 5 more for assuming that I am happy believing what I do believe. I have mixed feelings. I might be happier having the simple beliefs and mundane experiences of people like you.
youre beliefs are simplistic I agree, most of them see to have been developed over years of research on the sci fi channel


but yanno, next time someone offers to post you a very well produced and enlightening website written by an expert on a subject youre discussing please refuse politely and remind them that youre an idiot, in case, like me they had given you an oppotunity to prove otherwise

btw Richard L. Thompson is not an author I would recommend to anyone, as he is in fact a Hindu OEC, who has a qualification in mathematics which he thinks entitles him to fabricate evidence from the ancient world which gullible retards who don't know anything buy into because of their vast ignorance of the subject matter


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Old 23rd May 2010, 11:36 AM   #33
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Quote:
You have beliefs ?
how quaint, do you mind if the rest of us sane people stick with fact based empirical data

Yes, I do. For instance I believe that the "UFO" I saw was not 'only in my head' because my friend saw it too. I don't believe that some sort of mass or shared "hallucination" is the explanation. We were not under the influence of any mind altering substances.

I believe that the best way to understand the UFO phenomenon is in terms of a mixture of comparative mythology and Jungian psychology and parapsychology. Part of understanding the UFO phenomenon is through art, which Jung does in his book about it.

Quote:
btw Richard L. Thompson is not an author I would recommend to anyone, as he is in fact a Hindu OEC, who has a qualification in mathematics which he thinks entitles him to fabricate evidence from the ancient world

Can you give me an example of something specific from that book which you think he fabricated?
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"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 23rd May 2010 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 11:44 AM   #34
Marduk
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Yes, I do. For instance I believe that the "UFO" I saw was not 'only in my head' because my friend saw it too. I don't believe that some sort of mass or shared "hallucination" is the explanation. We were not under the influence of any mind altering substances.
By your own admission you saw a UFO, what makes you think it was anything alien ?

Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Can you give me an example of something specific from that book which you think he fabricated?
I will, as soon as you show me where I said I'd read that book, I stated that hes happy to fabricate evidence, this based on my experience of another book he co authored, discussion of which is unfortunately off topic for this thread, but feel free to start your own. Might help if you read through Rramjets UFO thread here before you do though. Most of anything you could possibly say has been covered already
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=156375

Last edited by Marduk; 23rd May 2010 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 11:48 AM   #35
Limbo
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
By your own admission you saw a UFO, what makes you think it was anything alien ?

Correction. By my own admission I and a friend saw a "UFO". Note the scare quotes? Do you think I bother with them for my health?

Scare quotes is a term for a particular use of quotation marks. In this application, quotation marks are placed around a single word or phrase to indicate that the word or phrase does not signify its literal or conventional meaning.

What I want to know is why you assume that I think "UFO"s are alien even after I said I take a Jungian approach. Marduk, you are a sloppy skeptic.

Quote:
I will, as soon as you show me where I said I'd read that book, I stated that hes happy to fabricate evidence, this based on my experience of another book he co authored, discussion of which is unfortunately off topic for this thread, but feel free to start your own. Might help if you read through Rramjets UFO thread here before you do though. Most of anything you could possibly say has been covered already
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=156375

Uh-huh.
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"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 23rd May 2010 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 11:50 AM   #36
Marduk
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
What I want to know is why you assume that I think "UFO"s are alien even after indicating I take a Jungian approach. Marduk, you are a sloppy skeptic.
well I am assuming that because youre mentioning it in a thread about aliens, lol

Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Uh-huh.
what your attempt to move the burden of proof failed ?
what a shame

Last edited by Marduk; 23rd May 2010 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 11:58 AM   #37
Limbo
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
well I am assuming that because youre mentioning it in a thread about aliens, lol

My simple friend, we are also talking about ancient myth. That means we are talking about gods. From a Jungian perspective, both of these are archetypes in symbolic form. "Alien" is a mythological term, but you are too close to the modern mythology to recognize it as such.

Quote:
what your attempt to move the burden of proof failed ?
what a shame

I will wait for you to make and back up an accusation that he fabricated evidence in the Alien Identities book. I'll be patient, so you can go ahead and order yourself a copy and do your analysis. I am looking forward to your report.
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"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 23rd May 2010 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 12:01 PM   #38
Marduk
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
My simple friend, we are also talking about ancient myth. That means we are talking about gods. From a Jungian perspective, both of these are archetypes in symbolic form.
What if everyone else isn't talking about a "jungian" perspective, is it still valid in a conversation ?
what if were actually discussing a written word, how does the jungian perspective prove anything ?
e.g. if youre saying that a Vimana was an imaginary concept which was used to explain the ancients needs to travel the heavens how does that hold up against the evidence that Vimana doesn't nor has ever meant aircraft and those texts that say otherwise have been deliberately mistranslated with an agenda ?


Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
I will wait for you to back up your accusation that he fabricated evidence in the Alien Identities book. I'll be patient, so you can go ahead and order yourself a copy and do your analysis. I am looking forward to your report.
Sure, and as soon as you post where I said I read that book and wasn't actually referring to his work in general (which I already stated) I'll do that for you........

Last edited by Marduk; 23rd May 2010 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 12:11 PM   #39
Limbo
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
What if everyone else isn't talking about a "jungian" perspective, is it still valid in a conversation ?
what if were actually discussing a written word, how does the jungian perspective prove anything ?
e.g. if youre saying that a Vimana was an imaginary concept which was used to explain the ancients needs to travel the heavens how does that hold up against the evidence that Vimana doesn't nor has ever meant aircraft and those texts that say otherwise have been deliberately mistranslated with an agenda ?

What sort of philosophical overtones am I meant to read into your use of the word 'imaginary'? What sort of implicit assumptions about reality are you hiding behind that word? I doubt you mean it in the same way I do. And don't get me started on the word 'heavens'.

Quote:
Sure, and as soon as you post where I said I read that book and wasn't actually referring to his work in general (which I already stated) I'll do that for you........

OK, fine. If you decide to read it let me know.
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"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 23rd May 2010 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 01:40 PM   #40
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I have nothing much to offer in the thread but wanted to link to the appropriate part of Bad Archaeology:

http://www.badarchaeology.net/extrat...rial/index.php
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