Merged: Lockerbie bomber alive after 9 months

[Caustic Logic]

If you'll recall, convicted Lockerbie bomber Abdul al Megrahi was released from prison last year on "compassionate grounds." That meant he was likely to die within three months.

Back on May 20 we passed the nine months mark (since release, not the even earlier diagnosis), and he's still alive. Beats the record for convicted killers surviving after release. Suspicions are growing over that diagnosis. BP may as well have written it up.

So what do we do now? Are sporadic boycotts of Scotland sufficient? Should we send in mercenaries? Maybe even into Libya? Was Obama at fault? Can those doctors be jailed? Bomb Libya for good this time? Here are some excellent (if dated) recommendations from Americans from last year, mostly just about Megrahi personally:

Quote:

maybe we can shoot the plane down and speed the process up a bit.

Cut the bastards throat

He should have been taken apart with a pair of pliars and a blowtorch, slowly.

We should have put him down

This beast deserves no compassion, none. Let him die in prison.

I hope the manhunt is on!

Send Blackwater after him.

May the bastard die a painful death in Libya.

No pain medication. He should suffer as his victims did

http://world-news.newsvine.com/_news...7983#c14487983

Anyone with more current ideas, now that the plane has landed and he continues to taunt us with continued breathing? Is it too late for the torture?

Please everyone, refrain from mentioning how this monster might be innocent or this will be sent to the CT forum. Just normal politics as far as this thread is concerned - convicted mass-murdering terrorist Islamist scum set free and what now? Who pays and how?

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

convicted mass-murdering terrorist Islamist scum set free and what now? Who pays and how?

That's the point. He was found guilty and nothing has changed that. Scotland has made a mistake it should be embarrassed about.

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by lionking

That's the point. He was found guilty and nothing has changed that. Scotland has made a mistake it should be embarrassed about.

Good. No conter-measures specified, but some natural indignation.

Also, I mant to note that today is a good day for this thread, being Memorial Day, in remembrance of the US military personnell that died on the dark December night. Megrahi was convicted of killing them, so doesn't everyone agree he should pay the full price?

[quixotecoyote]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

Good. No conter-measures specified, but some natural indignation.

Also, I mant to note that today is a good day for this thread, being Memorial Day, in remembrance of the US military personnell that died on the dark December night. Megrahi was convicted of killing them, so doesn't everyone agree he should pay the full price?

Nah. That case was a travesty.

[The Fool]

Shucks you guys........Is it time to rerun your "feelings" that something just isn't right here.


I'd just like to add I really, really really, hate murderers. which is better than someone who really, really hates murderers but not as good as someone who really, really, really, really hates murderers.


May I also add that I support the concepts of rule of law and an independent Judiciarry. Dammit scotland.....what makes you think you can do that in scotland....applying scottish laws and legal practices.....


plus the diagnosis is a fraud....got no evidence but every so often I like to express it as a feeling.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I say we invade and liberate them from their monarchic oppressors.

I also have really strong condemnations! Very, very outraged! Why did they listen to some "doctor" about his health?! Morons!

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha

I say we invade and liberate them from their monarchic oppressors.

I also have really strong condemnations! Very, very outraged! Why did they listen to some "doctor" about his health?! Morons!

Awesome! You may not be American, but you're okay. Wait - Neverland, like outside LA? Nevermind... I suppose this thread is a little bit fishing. I remember those good ol days threads from last September where people just vent. Wanted to host one of my own, now that there's another nine months worth of indignation.

So far it's not as fiery as I'd hoped, but ah well

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by quixotecoyote

Nah. That case was a travesty.

Please take your doubts to the CT forum. Convicted is all that should matter here, in a world that must be governed by laws. Convicted murderer of fully 270 people, who were largely alive as they fell six miles.

Originally Posted by The Fool

Shucks you guys........Is it time to rerun your "feelings" that something just isn't right here.


I'd just like to add I really, really really, hate murderers. which is better than someone who really, really hates murderers but not as good as someone who really, really, really, really hates murderers.


May I also add that I support the concepts of rule of law and an independent Judiciarry. Dammit scotland.....what makes you think you can do that in scotland....applying scottish laws and legal practices.....


plus the diagnosis is a fraud....got no evidence but every so often I like to express it as a feeling.

I'm likeing the elipses!

American family members WERE led to believe, once by someone (I hear), that Megrahi would definitely die in jail there, hopefully in misery. If those weren't Scotlands rules, shouldn't they have been changed? After all, this is Susan Cohen et al, American, proud, loud, and righteously bereaved. I've heard that around. What does anyone say?

[DC]

well considering only that he is convicted, i say he should die in jail.

but it might be that there is indeed real doubt about that conviction.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by DC

but it might be that there is indeed real doubt about that conviction.

Jeez, read the OP. Take that to CT.

[Professor Yaffle]

Well I never had any problems believing the diagnosis and prognosis estimate were kosher, but I hate that one of the main docs involved seems to be so dodgy... The dodginess doesn't seem to be in the arena of faking a diagnosis but it does make it harder for me to put faith in him.

[GlennB]

A patient in that condition in the UK would be on palliative care only for the primary condition. There are reports - hard to confirm - that he's been receiving active treatment on the cancer, including chemotherapy. If true this might have slowed down its progress.

In the end such diagnoses aren't a precise science.

[Caustic Logic]

DC: That doubt was just general enough, but it is OT to go further.

On death for killers I'm not real strong either way. I don't personally think it helps anything, but if someone who's really hurting from a murder thinks it'll help THEM, I won't stand in the way.

That was always out with Megrahi, if I'm not mistaken. Life was the harshest option, and as I gather in Europe that usually means 20ish years usually, or until you're olld, or about to die. Generally, one isn't to actually die in jail. So ...

Originally Posted by Professor Yaffle

Well I never had any problems believing the diagnosis and prognosis estimate were kosher, but I hate that one of the main docs involved seems to be so dodgy... The dodginess doesn't seem to be in the arena of faking a diagnosis but it does make it harder for me to put faith in him.

I have not studies the details of that prognosis (or wasn't it plural?). But from a distance, the things i hear, I'm not really trusting. It seems less like good science and more like some kind of deal. To discuss what I suspect was traded for this early ticket home would take us off topic. But I suspect a deal. That said...

Originally Posted by GlennB

A patient in that condition in the UK would be on palliative care only for the primary condition. There are reports - hard to confirm - that he's been receiving active treatment on the cancer, including chemotherapy. If true this might have slowed down its progress.

In the end such diagnoses aren't a precise science.

Exactly as well. When three months passed, people were being silly to get mad that he was still alive. You do have to admit that gets less silly each month, but the principle still holds. For all we know that was a good prognosis and he's just defied it with unexpected changes. Being home and in better spirits is miracle medicine.

But does Megrahi deserve better spirits when he was convicted of plotting the deaths of hundreds?

I was liking the Buddha's idea above. To the shores of tripoli again?

[Beerina]

Originally Posted by The Fool

Shucks you guys........Is it time to rerun your "feelings" that something just isn't right here.


I'd just like to add I really, really really, hate murderers. which is better than someone who really, really hates murderers but not as good as someone who really, really, really, really hates murderers.


May I also add that I support the concepts of rule of law and an independent Judiciarry. Dammit scotland.....what makes you think you can do that in scotland....applying scottish laws and legal practices.....


plus the diagnosis is a fraud....got no evidence but every so often I like to express it as a feeling.

This was mocked at the time, that they were dupes. IIRC, I even posted something wondering what the dupes (many of you here) would say when, not if, he doesn't die on schedule.

Science. Theory. Prediction. Results in accordance with prediction. Umm, yey. QED: Scottland was a bunch of dupes.

[Cicero]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...64#post5047264

Suppose the two oncologists and two urologists who provided written documentation about al-Megrahi's condition were wrong. Suppose al-Megrahi double crosses them and lives years instead of months?

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by Beerina

This was mocked at the time, that they were dupes. IIRC, I even posted something wondering what the dupes (many of you here) would say when, not if, he doesn't die on schedule.

Science. Theory. Prediction. Results in accordance with prediction. Umm, yey. QED: Scottland was a bunch of dupes.

Nonsense they just have incompetent doctors. Look at the put up job Steven Hawking has been doing for years. Like anyone with ALS lives that long.

Also, how is this an issue for American politics?

[commandlinegamer]

Ronnie Biggs, released at about the same time, also still alive. He only thumbed his nose at the law, rather than taking his punishment like a man though, so there's no real fuss made about him.

[tyr_13]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Nonsense they just have incompetent doctors. Look at the put up job Steven Hawking has been doing for years. Like anyone with ALS lives that long.

Also, how is this an issue for American politics?

It's showing off the dangers of socialized health care.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Beerina

This was mocked at the time, that they were dupes. IIRC, I even posted something wondering what the dupes (many of you here) would say when, not if, he doesn't die on schedule.

Yes, how telling that medical science is inaccurate on that point.

Quote:

Science. Theory. Prediction. Results in accordance with prediction. Umm, yey. QED: Scottland was a bunch of dupes.

Explain this to me. Which doctor, exactly was duping them? All of them?

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Cleon

Yes, how telling that medical science is inaccurate on that point.

Explain this to me. Which doctor, exactly was duping them? All of them?

You mean witch doctor.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Cicero

You mean witch doctor.

Ha! Ha! You're so clever.

So can you tell me which doctors were part of this conspiracy?

[Ocelot]

<anecdote>My Grandad's 6 month prognosis lasted 6 years.</anecdote>

Now wouldn't it be interesting to collect cancer prognoses and compare them to actual survival times so that we could obtain a probability that the prognosis was given in good faith. Anyone?

[Professor Yaffle]

I found this review of the performance of prognostic models in cancer, but I don't know whether it will tell us anything relevant:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/8/21

[WildCat]

So how many business contracts have British firms been awarded since the release?

[Skeptic]

Originally Posted by Ocelot

Now wouldn't it be interesting to collect cancer prognoses and compare them to actual survival times so that we could obtain a probability that the prognosis was given in good faith. Anyone?

That many people outlive their prognosis is one thing. That this man in particular does is something else. I might be wrong, of course, but I will bet on him living a long and productive infidel-killing life yet. He's going to be a regular medical miracle, this man. Remember: it's the good who die young.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

That many people outlive their prognosis is one thing. That this man in particular does is something else.

Is he somehow special in that the prognosis was expected to be more accurate than they generally are?

Quote:

I might be wrong, of course, but I will bet on him living a long and productive infidel-killing life yet. He's going to be a regular medical miracle, this man. Remember: it's the good who die young.

So perhaps you can explain which of the doctors that examined him is lying.

[Cleon]

A recent report on his health. Yeah, sounds like he's doing just fan-dam-tastic.

[willhaven]

Regardless, he should have died in prison.

[Ocelot]

Originally Posted by Caustic Logic

Please everyone, refrain from mentioning how this monster might be innocent or this will be sent to the CT forum. Just normal politics as far as this thread is concerned - convicted mass-murdering terrorist Islamist scum set free and what now? Who pays and how?

So the conspiracy to avoid the unsafe conviction being examined in court belongs in the CT forum, but doctors being secretly paid by Libyans/Big Oil, to offer a false prognosis isn't a conspiracy?

Surely if we have to accept the conviction because the courts said so, then we have to accept that he was lucky to survive over 6 months for exactly the same reason.

End of discussion or take it to CT...

[funk de fino]

Originally Posted by lionking

That's the point. He was found guilty and nothing has changed that. Scotland has made a mistake it should be embarrassed about.

Scotland did what they always do and what England does.

They gave my mother one day and she survived three.

[funk de fino]

Originally Posted by willhaven

Regardless, he should have died in prison.

Not your decidion to make. I could say so should have that US serviceman prosecuted for the massacre in Vietnam.

[funk de fino]

Originally Posted by WildCat

So how many business contracts have British firms been awarded since the release?

I work for a US comany and we have loads of contracts with Mr Gaddafi.

[GlennB]

Originally Posted by Skeptic

That many people outlive their prognosis is one thing. That this man in particular does is something else.

About even money, I reckon.

Originally Posted by Skeptic

I might be wrong, of course, but I will bet on him living a long and productive infidel-killing life yet. He's going to be a regular medical miracle, this man. Remember: it's the good who die young.

Propose your bet in terms of lifespan.
Quote mutliple odds for different lifespans.

I might be interested, but of course it depends on your odds.

Walk the walk? It will be interesting to how your actual odds square up to your bluster.

[Brainster]

I suggest we boycott Scotland. No more haggis for me!

[willhaven]

Originally Posted by funk de fino

Not your decidion to make.

Obviously not.

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by WildCat

So how many business contracts have British firms been awarded since the release?

Good question. This was supposed to open the way to better business dealings and some specifics would be nice (I don;t have them, no time to dig today). In fact, somehow the appalled US is now riding on their coattails it seems. See here and here.

Originally Posted by Skeptic

That many people outlive their prognosis is one thing. That this man in particular does is something else. I might be wrong, of course, but I will bet on him living a long and productive infidel-killing life yet. He's going to be a regular medical miracle, this man. Remember: it's the good who die young.

That's more the spirit I was hoping for. However, if his cancer isn't totally faked and he dies fairlly soon, at what is it, 57? That's fairly young. So that would mean... Also, any evidence that he's killed more infidels? He was only convicted of killing the 270, and not so much for religious reasons AFAIK. I suggest we stick to what's established.

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by Ocelot

So the conspiracy to avoid the unsafe conviction being examined in court belongs in the CT forum, but doctors being secretly paid by Libyans/Big Oil, to offer a false prognosis isn't a conspiracy?

Surely if we have to accept the conviction because the courts said so, then we have to accept that he was lucky to survive over 6 months for exactly the same reason.

End of discussion or take it to CT...

Ooh, excellent. Hmm... well, it's experience that tells me anything with "Megrahi is innocent" reads "Megrahi framed" and gets taken to CT. So it's that specific (and fertile) line of discourse I wanted to cut off here.

Okay and Skeptic's continued Jihad theory, but hey, I'm not the boss. But the diagnosis is coming under increasingly large Q cloud.

[Caustic Logic]

Beerina and Cicero - obviously your predictions were valid. Well, not the years one yet, and I doubt it will go that far unless the whole cancer is faked, which I find hard to accept. But then, medicines... we can only see the future when it's not.

Ponderingturtle: Well I was more concerned with American attitudes over this attack on America and an American plane, but it obviously could go in non-USA (world) politics or as it just did, it go to Social Issues.

I'm just happy with anywhere but CT, and ask everyone to continue keeping the conviction (with or without physical guilt) as the premise of everything else.

[GlennB]

Personally I'm interested in taking Skeptic's money when he gets around to offering odds. But it's a busy forum and there's much to talk about elsewhere .....

p.s. a fun way to offer odds (in a non-commercial environment) is to allow the bettor to take the reverse odds. Brazil 6-1 to win the World Cup, or 1-6 not to win it. It's always a 'fair' proposition.

Fire away Skeptic

p.s. I'm not holding my breath here. Anybody want to offer odds on Skeptic backing off actually offering odds?

[Caustic Logic]

Originally Posted by GlennB

Personally I'm interested in taking Skeptic's money when he gets around to offering odds. But it's a busy forum and there's much to talk about elsewhere .....

p.s. a fun way to offer odds (in a non-commercial environment) is to allow the bettor to take the reverse odds. Brazil 6-1 to win the World Cup, or 1-6 not to win it. It's always a 'fair' proposition.

Fire away Skeptic

p.s. I'm not holding my breath here. Anybody want to offer odds on Skeptic backing off actually offering odds?

I'm not a better usually, but I'd wager 9:1 against any further elaboration of that little "theory."

ETA: Thanks to the mods for the confidence shown in allowing this thread to go where I put it after all. It's not the perfect spot, but nowhere is quite perfect.