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Old 6th July 2010, 05:33 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Zimmerman does not sound Jewish at all, but refers to an honest 'Aryan' occupation: Carpenter.
I seem to remember a well-known Jew holding that occupation. A lot of Aryans think a lot of him too, though they prefer not to remember he was Jewish. Funny, that.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:38 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by gtm View Post
We do have jewish british citizens - the two things are not mutually exclusive. In the Netherlands you used to have a vibrant jewish community. We all know what happened to them.
I can assure you we still have a vibrant jewish community (working day and night to hand over Holland to the 3rd world).
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:39 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by gtm View Post
We do have jewish british citizens - the two things are not mutually exclusive. In the Netherlands you used to have a vibrant jewish community. We all know what happened to them.

I'm not Jewish (my mother wasn't one) but yes I have jewish antecedents via my fathers family.
911/investigator believes that the Jewish community in the Nederlands were sent by the Nazis to holiday camps for a nice rest.
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:41 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
I can assure you we still have a vibrant jewish community (working day and night to hand over Holland to the 3rd world).
Bollocks.Your posts make me feel nauseous.How did you get to be so sick and twisted? Something in your childhood?

Last edited by dafydd; 6th July 2010 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:43 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I already thought you have no clue about it.

So you bring up the Zimmerman telegram without explaining why the US was justified in declaring war to Germany?

No surprises here.

For the neutral bystander: I am trying to let our friend Dave here make positive statements about this telegram to support his suggested thesis that the US had all the right of the world to declare war on Germany.

Let's see if he takes the bait...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:44 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
I can assure you we still have a vibrant jewish community (working day and night to hand over Holland to the 3rd world).
Good (although the Dutch Jewish community was much reduced during WW11)
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:45 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
I already thought you have no clue about it.

So you bring up the Zimmerman telegram without explaining why the US was justified in declaring war to Germany?

No surprises here.

For the neutral bystander: I am trying to let our friend Dave here make positive statements about this telegram to support his suggested thesis that the US had all the right of the world to declare war on Germany.

Let's see if he takes the bait...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram
Don't take the bait Dave,what is the point? You can't argue with the brain dead.
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:48 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
For the neutral bystander: I am trying to let our friend Dave here make positive statements about this telegram to support his suggested thesis that the US had all the right of the world to declare war on Germany.
Nice piece of goalpost-moving. Let me just remind you that your argument has nothing to do with whether the US was justified in declaring war on Germany.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:51 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Nice piece of goalpost-moving. Let me just remind you that your argument has nothing to do with whether the US was justified in declaring war on Germany.

Dave
Let him stew on that for a while,it will dawn on him sooner or later.
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:53 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Let him stew on that for a while,it will dawn on him sooner or later.
Somehow I doubt that.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th July 2010, 06:05 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Nice piece of goalpost-moving. Let me just remind you that your argument has nothing to do with whether the US was justified in declaring war on Germany.

Dave
Excellent, intelligent answer. So I cannot frame you.

So the question remains: why according to you did the US enter WW1?

Or are you simply going along with my Balfour conspiracy theory?

For the sake of the length of this thread I hope you don't.

Last edited by 9/11-investigator; 6th July 2010 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 6th July 2010, 06:07 AM   #372
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The USA joined the war because the Germans were killing our civilians and attacking our ships.
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Old 6th July 2010, 06:52 AM   #373
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Because German Unrestricted Submarine Warfare was sinking American ships and killing American sailors. One can read President Wilson's speech to Congress on the matter here, made on 2nd April 1917, and it's quite clear what the justification is. If you're not interested in clicking the link, here's an excerpt.

Quote:
I have called the Congress into extraordinary session because there are serious, very serious, choices of policy to be made, and made immediately, which it was neither right nor constitutionally permissible that I should assume the responsibility of making.


On the third of February last I officially laid before you the extraordinary announcement of the Imperial German Government that on and after the first day of February it was its purpose to put aside all restraints of law or of humanity and use its submarines to sink every vessel that sought to approach either the ports of Great Britain and Ireland or the western coasts of Europe or any of the ports controlled by the enemies of Germany within the Mediterranean.


That had seemed to be the object of the German submarine warfare earlier in the war, but since April of last year the Imperial Government had somewhat restrained the commanders of its undersea craft in conformity with its promise then given to us that passenger boats should not be sunk and that due warning would be given to all other vessels which its submarines might seek to destroy, when no resistance was offered or escape attempted, and care taken that their crews were given at least a fair chance to save their lives in their open boats.


The precautions taken were meagre and haphazard enough, as was proved in distressing instance after instance in the progress of the cruel and unmanly business, but a certain degree of restraint was observed. The new policy has swept every restriction aside. Vessels of every kind, whatever their flag, their character, their cargo, their destination, their errand, have been ruthlessly sent to the bottom without warning and without thought of help or mercy for those on board, the vessels of friendly neutrals along with those of belligerents.
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Old 6th July 2010, 06:56 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
So the question remains: why according to you did the US enter WW1?
I can't add much to Uzzy's explanation of why, according to the US, the US entered the war, except to say that protection of maritime trade has always been a major concern of the USA; they even went to war with us over it once.

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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th July 2010, 07:00 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Whatever The Hague says.
Well, there you have it: "My reality is better than yours."
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Old 6th July 2010, 07:08 AM   #376
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Fortunately we do not have to entirely rely on the utterings of a no doubt 'self-hating Jew' Benjamin Freedman somewhere in the 60s or 70s. Here is another 'self-hating Jew', Samuel Landman who simply confirms the link between Balfour and the US-war entry, despite the pathetic attempt of my Anglo opponents who keep on rambling about 'evil Germans' sinking innocent American ships (filled with war material).

http://www.heretical.com/miscella/plandman.html

Quote:
However, in March 1936, a Zionist Jew named Samuel Landman published a work called Great Britain, The Jews and Palestine under the auspices of the Zionist Association, which deals with Zionism and the entry of the United States into the war. As the preface of the book clearly states, the author is a very well-known English Zionist. He was the honorary secretary of the Zionist Council of the United Kingdom in 1912, editor of The Zionist from 1913 – 1914, and author of various Zionist publications which came out during the war. From 1917 – 1922 he was the solicitor and secretary of the Zionist organization, and later became its legal adviser. As a Jewish document, therefore, it may be considered to carry official weight.

Mr. Woodrow Wilson, for good and sufficient reasons, always attached the greatest possible importance to the advice of a very prominent Zionist (Mr. Justice Brandeis, of the US Supreme Court); and was in close touch with Mr. Greenberg, Editor of the Jewish Chronicle (London); and knew that several important Zionist Jewish leaders had already gravitated to London from the Continent on the qui vive awaiting events; and appreciated and realized the depth and strength of Jewish national aspirations; spontaneously took the initiative, to convince first of all Sir Mark Sykes, Under-Secretary to the War Cabinet, and afterwards M. Georges Picot, of the French Embassy in London, and M. Goût of the Quai d'Orsay (Eastern Section), that the best and perhaps the only way (which proved so to be) to induce the American President to come into the War was to secure the co-operation of Zionist Jews by promising them Palestine, and thus enlist and mobilize the hitherto unsuspectedly powerful forces of Zionist Jews in America and elsewhere in favour of the Allies on a quid pro quo contract basis. Thus, as will be seen, the Zionists, having carried out their part, and greatly helped to bring America in, the Balfour Declaration of 1917 was but the public confirmation of the necessarily secret 'gentleman's' agreement of 1916 made with the previous knowledge, acquiescence and/or approval of the Arabs and of the British, American, French and other Allied Governments, and not merely a voluntary altruistic and romantic gesture on the part of Great Britain as certain people either through pardonable ignorance assume or unpardonable ill-will would represent or misrepresent.
Translation: the Jews in the US already owned Wilson (they earlier had him blackmailed in giving the FED to them, a topic for a different thread) and used this influence to push him into war. The Lusitania arms issue (the delivery was possibly a secret deal between American arms manifacturers and the British overnment) was merely used to sell the war to the American public. No Jews involved here.

Landman continues:

Quote:
The fact that it was Jewish help that brought USA into the War on the side of the Allies has rankled ever since in German – especially Nazi – minds, and has contributed in no small measure to the prominence which anti-Semitism occupies in the Nazi programme.’
That's the Jews for you: without any regard for interests of others they pursue their self-interest without any sense of measure. Even if they have to destroy others, like in this case Germany, who had treated them good.

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Old 6th July 2010, 07:12 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
That's the Jews for you: without any regard for interests of others they pursue their self-interest without any sense of measure.
your bigotry is disgusting.

oh, and btw, you have still failed to prove that "the Jews" forced Wilson to declare war on Germany.

once again, did "the Jews" force Germany to attack the Lusitania and two more ships before Wilson declared war?

thought not.

your theory, that "the Jews", brought the USA into WW1, is crap...and debunked.

Last edited by Thunder; 6th July 2010 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 6th July 2010, 07:15 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Excellent, intelligent answer. So I cannot frame you.
All the same, I must admit to a morbid curiosity as to what bizarre construction you were intending to place on the Zimmerman Telegram by which you would argue that Germany's threat to sink American cargo ships without warning and assist Mexico in an invasion of America was in fact an act of aggression by America against Germany.

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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th July 2010, 07:19 AM   #379
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Your obsession over the Lusitania would be more relevant if it wasn't for the two year gap between it's sinking and the American deceleration of war.
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Old 6th July 2010, 07:19 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Zimmerman does not sound Jewish at all, but refers to an honest 'Aryan' occupation: Carpenter. Jewish names often refer to money: Goldman, Silverstein, Rubin, Pearl, Safire, Lendman, etc.
My great-Aunt's last name is Zimmerman. She is a Jew.
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Old 6th July 2010, 07:22 AM   #381
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Bob Dylan aka Robert Allen Zimmerman is Jewish
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Old 6th July 2010, 07:24 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Uzzy View Post
Your obsession over the Lusitania would be more relevant if it wasn't for the two year gap between it's sinking and the American deceleration of war.
ok..fine.

got any evidence that the Zimmerman Telegram was part of a Zionist plot to get the USA into WW1?

thought not.
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Old 6th July 2010, 07:25 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
ok..fine.

got any evidence that the Zimmerman Telegram was part of a Zionist plot to get the USA into WW1?

thought not.
Woah there, I was responding to 9/11 guy, not you. His obsession over the Lusitania is what I'm on about.
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Old 6th July 2010, 07:32 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Country A delivering war material to country B, which is at war with country C, is a clear act of war of country A towards country C.

From American Secretary of State Robert Lansing's August 12, 1915 reply to an Austro-Hungarian diplomatic note:

Quote:
The Government of the United States notes with satisfaction the recognition by the Imperial and Royal Government of the undoubted fact that its attitude with regard to the exportation of arms and ammunition from the United States is prompted by its intention to "maintain the strictest neutrality and conform to the letter with the provisions of international treaties," but is surprised to find the Imperial and Royal Government implying that the observance of the strict principles of the law under the conditions which have developed in the present war is insufficient, and asserting that this Government should go beyond the long recognized rules governing such traffic by neutrals and adopt measures to "maintain an attitude of strict parity with respect to both belligerent parties." . . .

In this connection it is pertinent to direct the attention of the Imperial and Royal Government to the fact that Austria-Hungary and Germany, particularly the latter, have during the years preceding the present war produced a great surplus of arms and ammunition, which they sold throughout the world and especially to belligerents. Never during that period did either of them suggest or apply the principle now advocated by the Imperial and Royal Government.

During the Boer War between Great Britain and the South African republics the patrol of the coast of neighbouring neutral colonies by British naval vessels prevented arms and ammunition reaching the Transvaal or the Orange Free State. The allied republics were in a situation almost identical in that respect with that in which Austria-Hungary and Germany find themselves at the present time.

Yet, in spite of the commercial isolation of one belligerent, Germany sold to Great Britain and the other belligerent, hundreds of thousands of kilos of explosives, gunpowder, cartridges, shot and weapons; and it is known that Austria-Hungary also sold similar munitions to the same purchaser, though in small quantities. [bolding mine]


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Old 6th July 2010, 08:16 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
From American Secretary of State Robert Lansing's August 12, 1915 reply to an Austro-Hungarian diplomatic note:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...efd47d7e6b.jpg
I am not going to read all these links until you have made your point in a few lines first. If your point is interesting than maybe I will read these links.

Just maybe.
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Old 6th July 2010, 08:20 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
I am not going to read all these links until you have made your point in a few lines first. If your point is interesting than maybe I will read these links.

Just maybe.
Translation:
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Old 6th July 2010, 08:21 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
ok..fine.

got any evidence that the Zimmerman Telegram was part of a Zionist plot to get the USA into WW1?

thought not.
Got any evidence that I ever said so?

Thought not.
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Old 6th July 2010, 09:04 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
your bigotry is disgusting.
Corrected.
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Old 6th July 2010, 09:15 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Translation: the Jews in the US already owned Wilson (they earlier had him blackmailed in giving the FED to them, a topic for a different thread) and used this influence to push him into war. The Lusitania arms issue (the delivery was possibly a secret deal between American arms manifacturers and the British overnment) was merely used to sell the war to the American public.
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that your quote is both accurate and authoritative, and that there was a Jewish lobby that sought to bring America into the war on the Allied side. All this means is that some British Jews acted in their country's national interest, and that some American Jews were politically active in determining the policies of their nation; neither of these is in any way illegal, immoral or even unusual. Yet your argument is that this made all German Jews into traitors, despite the total absence of evidence that they were involved in, or even aware of, any such actions. And this is your justification for the murder of millions of German, Polish, French, Greek, Italian, Russian Jews - that a group of British Jews acted in such a way as to align their personal interests with their national interest.

It seems that, at the heart of all your arguments, is the circular argument that the actions of individual Jews prove the existence of an international Jewish conspiracy, provided that one first accepts the existence of an international Jewish conspiracy. If one starts from the view of the Jewish people as human beings, capable of independent thoughts and actions, none of their actions are in the least suggestive of any such thing. It's only your insistence on thinking of them as a monolithic, groupthinking power bloc that leads you to conclude that that's what they are; ironically, even that reasoning requires you to ignore or discard the overwhlming majority of evidence that makes is clear that no such thing is true.

But, while we're at it, let's apply your logic to a different situation. The Germans had, up till 1915, been treated relatively well by America. We know that America took no action against Germany other than actions that Germany had itself taken in respect of other belligerents, and which therefore could be taken to have Germany's official seal of approval. And yet, in response to this entirely fair treatment, Germany took it upon itself to murder American citizens by sinking their ships without warning, and to collude with another nation to bring about the invasion of America. Surely this is sufficient justification, according to your logic, for America to embark on a program of genocide against the German people, isn't it? Because that's no more than you claim the Jews were planning to do to Germany, and Germany did it first.

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th July 2010, 09:17 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Got any evidence that I ever said so?
No, you've been suspiciously silent about the Zimmerman Telegram. Almost as if you were trying to ignore a piece of evidence that didn't prove what you wanted it to prove.

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 6th July 2010, 09:52 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Hans markets himself as a clearvoyant.

Maybe the airconditioner is not working in Bahrain?
Schwieger had no idea that the ship was carrying arms. They attacked a liner which they ran into by accident at the end of their patrol.
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Old 6th July 2010, 01:43 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
No, you've been suspiciously silent about the Zimmerman Telegram. Almost as if you were trying to ignore a piece of evidence that didn't prove what you wanted it to prove.

Dave
I never heard of it before. You brought it up, remember. I had a short look at the wikipedia entry and saw some interesting pointers. Then I tried to make you make positive statements about the telegram because I had an intuition as to what you were going to say. Then you stopped elaborating about it, probably afraid as you were to make mistakes.

So here the question to you: what according to you is the significance of the Zimmermann telegram for the US war entry?

You may use a calculator for this exercise.
Good luck.
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Old 6th July 2010, 01:45 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Schwieger had no idea that the ship was carrying arms. They attacked a liner which they ran into by accident at the end of their patrol.
Schwieger was the U-boat commander I presume?

Have any links to back this up?
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Old 6th July 2010, 02:01 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
I never heard of it before. You brought it up, remember. I had a short look at the wikipedia entry and saw some interesting pointers. Then I tried to make you make positive statements about the telegram because I had an intuition as to what you were going to say. Then you stopped elaborating about it, probably afraid as you were to make mistakes.

So here the question to you: what according to you is the significance of the Zimmermann telegram for the US war entry?

You may use a calculator for this exercise.
Good luck.
All I can say is somebody who pontificates on World War One and then turns out not to have heard of the Zimmerman Telegram has shot themsleves in the foot big time.
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Old 6th July 2010, 02:12 PM   #395
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Quote:
My reference points are one toe into libertarianism, another in 19th century conservatism, post-Christian, post-Holocaust, very Nietzschean, Euro-centric, Archaism (Guillaume Faye). Very anti-modern, Jew-wise, some remote sympathy for Islam (gender roles). Huntington as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Supportive of the EU (not very common for right wingers) but with the aim to transform it from within. Political/military axis Berlin-Moscow-Paris. Gladly bringing about the Death of the West.
So our little investigator is a Sexist Male Surpemist as well? Why am I not surprised?
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Old 6th July 2010, 03:51 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I can't add much to Uzzy's explanation of why, according to the US, the US entered the war, except to say that protection of maritime trade has always been a major concern of the USA; they even went to war with us over it once.
And the first wars the USA declared as a sovereign state: the Barbary Wars, were just about that.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
All I can say is somebody who pontificates on World War One and then turns out not to have heard of the Zimmerman Telegram has shot themsleves in the foot big time.
Seconded.

What was the German government smoking when they transmitted this explosive information by cable? Had they forgotten the effect of their own (edited) publication of the Emser Depesche?
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Old 6th July 2010, 04:25 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
I never heard of it before.

So here the question to you: what according to you is the significance of the Zimmermann telegram for the US war entry?
you consider yourself a worthy commentator on World history and affairs, and yet you have NEVER heard of the Zimmerman Telegram?????

back to ignore you go.
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Old 6th July 2010, 04:43 PM   #398
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I am a worthy commentator on WWII!



Who's that Hitler guy again?
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:05 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So our little investigator is a Sexist Male Surpemist as well? Why am I not surprised?
In your freak lefty progressive world women are deprived of chances of motherhood. In western countries the average child per woman ration is aproaching 1.0.

Dudalbs idea of a 'liberated' women: a 45 year old maiden with 10 'relationships' behind her, without a family, hacking away on a computer.

Don't for a moment assume that the average 'suppressed' muslim women are unhappier than their 'liberated' feminist white counterparts.

But your game is over anyway.
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Old 6th July 2010, 05:11 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
All I can say is somebody who pontificates on World War One and then turns out not to have heard of the Zimmerman Telegram has shot themsleves in the foot big time.
Have you ever written anything longer than a one line sneer dudalb?

Do you want to say that you know everything there is to know about WW1?

Well here is your chance: enlighten us about the role of the Zimmermann telegram in bringing the US into WW1.
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