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Old 20th June 2010, 02:52 AM   #41
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Given who posted the list, it is quite obvious that this was not a mistake, but intentional. That poster has his the typical Nazi delusions about history, which of course do not permit him to accept that WW1 was started by part of his "Master Race", and that WW2 began halfway around the world. In his mind, there is only space for the Evil Communist Jewish World Conspiracy aimed at destroying his "Master Race".
I resent the notion that he has a mind, but agree with the rest.

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Old 20th June 2010, 02:56 AM   #42
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Naziquiz sucks
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Old 20th June 2010, 03:15 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
All you have to do is read the Protocols.
Or the "Hitler Diaries", if your tastes in "books gullible Nazis love" are a little more au courant.
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Old 20th June 2010, 03:18 AM   #44
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The World Wars were a dastardly British plot to lose a million men, most of the Empire, virtually bankrupt the nation, and tip geopolitical power in the direction of the USA and Russia.

This mostly worked, with the caveat that the British film industry - and Sir John Mills in particular - did rather well out of it.
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Old 20th June 2010, 07:34 AM   #45
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My grandfather started both wars as a joke. He was a son of a bitch.
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Old 20th June 2010, 07:43 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
All you have to do is read the Protocols.
Haha, good one...
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Old 20th June 2010, 07:55 AM   #47
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Het Nederlands has had a history of covert racism, and the education has been slipping.

I blame the socialidienst, they pay people far too much, they can't be bothered to get off their arses for any job, so the 'foreigners' are taking over.

I worked illegally in Amsterdam for nearly three years. It was easy to get a job due to all the young Dutch people on welfare.
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Old 20th June 2010, 07:56 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
All you have to do is read the Protocols.

You think they were started by Napoleon III?
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Old 20th June 2010, 08:09 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Germany.

Next.
Only for the second one. The first was more complicated than that, but if I had to pick one it would be the Austro-Hungarians, for that ridiculous list of demands they sent Serbia.
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Old 20th June 2010, 10:42 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
Only for the second one. The first was more complicated than that, but if I had to pick one it would be the Austro-Hungarians, for that ridiculous list of demands they sent Serbia.
I think Austro-Hungary, Russia and Germany all deserve a major kick to the butt for that one. If not for their respective boneheadedness and warmongering...
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Old 20th June 2010, 10:47 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
I think Austro-Hungary, Russia and Germany all deserve a major kick to the butt for that one. If not for their respective boneheadedness and warmongering...
Don't forget Serbia.

Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
Only for the second one. The first was more complicated than that, but if I had to pick one it would be the Austro-Hungarians, for that ridiculous list of demands they sent Serbia.
As Hans said, that list of demands wasn't really unreasonable considering the circumstances. The 48 hours delay was a bit too short, though. But Serbia should have accepted the terms.
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Old 20th June 2010, 11:19 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
Only for the second one. The first was more complicated than that, but if I had to pick one it would be the Austro-Hungarians, for that ridiculous list of demands they sent Serbia.
It'll be Mariah Carey that starts World War Three.
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Old 20th June 2010, 12:26 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by plumjam View Post
It'll be Mariah Carey that starts World War Three.
Only because my grandfather is dead.
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Old 20th June 2010, 01:38 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
Don't forget Serbia.
Good point.
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Old 20th June 2010, 01:53 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
Don't forget Serbia.
And then Serbia goes and beats Germany 1-0.
Just shows you how short memories are these days.
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Old 20th June 2010, 02:21 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
The whole idea that "the Jews" are responsible for BOTH WW1 and WW2 is just pathetic and stupid.
Nobody says that 'the Jews' were responsible for BOTH WW1 and WW2.

There is a kosher consensus building here about the causes of WW1 and so far no mentioning of the Jews.

Relax.

Or rather wait until Balfour comes up.

And Versailles.
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Old 20th June 2010, 02:25 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by plumjam View Post
The World Wars were a dastardly British plot to lose a million men, most of the Empire, virtually bankrupt the nation, and tip geopolitical power in the direction of the USA and Russia.

This mostly worked, with the caveat that the British film industry - and Sir John Mills in particular - did rather well out of it.
Basically correct.

The rest of the thread will mainly consist in fine tuning the definition of 'British'
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Old 20th June 2010, 02:28 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Tatyana View Post
I worked illegally in Amsterdam for nearly three years. It was easy to get a job due to all the young Dutch people on welfare.
Are your name and avatar indicative for the nature of your illegal job?
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Old 20th June 2010, 02:30 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
My grandfather started both wars as a joke. He was a son of a bitch.
I find that hard to believe.

Churchill's love life was virtually non-existent.
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Old 20th June 2010, 03:00 PM   #60
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Going back to WW I .... it is an astounding testament to the complete stupidity of human beings and societies that I doubt that 1 % of the population in the 'developed' countries could provide a coherent account of how the war started, and I unfortunately have to include myself with the blockheaded 99%.

That said ... from this thread there is a consensus that the war started between Germany/Austria and the Serbs backed by Russia, and that the context was that the major nations of Europe were already on a collision course with an emerging Russia.

Is that right? How did the alliances develop after the war started?

And, to get the Jewish angle involved, how were the wars financed? Who/what were the major national and international financial institutions? What role did they play? And who is the fellow to read on this? Niall Ferguson? Watch the PBS version?
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Old 20th June 2010, 03:23 PM   #61
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9/11 -Investigator, who would you prefer to have won World War II (in the west)?
The Axis powers or the Allies?

Please do not dodge the question.
(Dodging the question will also include trying to argue that both the Axis powers and the Allies were suffering unbeknowing puppets in the hands of the Jews)

Last edited by plumjam; 20th June 2010 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 20th June 2010, 03:46 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by plumjam View Post
9/11 -Investigator, who would you prefer to have won World War II (in the west)?
The Axis powers or the Allies?

Please do not dodge the question.
(Dodging the question will also include trying to argue that both the Axis powers and the Allies were suffering unbeknowing puppets in the hands of the Jews)
Tertium non datur?

I would have preferred that the war(s) had not occured in the first place. In my view (and this is pretty conventional) the rise of a Hitler was provoked in Versailles. The wars resulted in the end of European global dominance which had lasted since 1492 and allowed peripheral parvenue entities like the USSR and USA to set food in Europe. The USSR in the meantime has collapsed so the job of undoing the result mentioned is now half done. The job will be finalized if the US has packed it's bags, all the Atlantic institutions resulting from WW2 (NATO, IMF, Worldbank, etc, etc.) have been abolished and a new alliance between Europe and Russia has been erected. In this new constellation 'race' will not be a forbidden concept, albeit not as explicit as was the case with the Nazis. I accept the Russians, unlike the Nazis.

To give you an idea of my position, for a large part I agree with the analysis made by Patrick Buchanan.

I believe it is usance in your circle to have a shower of acetone after such a revelation, but so be it (I doubt it is a healthy exercise this type of shower)

But to further answer your question, if WW2 was to happen anyway than I agree with Buchanan that France and Britain should have let the two totalitarian states murder each other. There is no justification for Britain and the US in choosing sides with the Soviets. At least not if you want to call this 'the good war' with a straight face.

Patrick Buchanan calls WW2 'the unnecessary war' in contrast to what Chris Hitchins and Victor Hanson call the 'good war'. In this video these two discuss the latest book by Buchanan. Likely many here agree with what they have to say

However I tend to be much more radical than Buchanan. I can afford that since I do not have a position to lose at MSNBC. Buchanan goes as far as you can go in the US, although you will have to endure sneers from the youknowwhos that 'they liked the German original better'.

In this thread I will base 'my' story on Buchanan's latest book supplemented with more esotherical items like the role of the Jews in establishing communism (Buchanan only mentions the Jews as holocaust victims, the holocaust about which I have grave doubts), the Balfour declaration, Suvorov's Icebreaker theory (I do not endorse it, just want to explore it) and of course the Jewish influence on Churchill.

Is is a general accepted fact that history is written by the victors. But this version of history is used as a tool in the hands of those who want to degrade my society and to destroy the fabric of my civilization and hence is no longer in my interest. So the task is to come up with a different interpretation that is more in line with my interests and obviously more in line with the truth. Or at least sellable as such since nobody can claim the possession of the absolute truth. You will call this propaganda. I will not object. The preparation for rewriting 20th century history is initiated in anticipation of a more or less immanent collapse of the US. To fill in a vacuum so to speak.

Last edited by 9/11-investigator; 20th June 2010 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 20th June 2010, 04:03 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
*looks at 9/11's character sheet, spots the Dodge feat*
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Old 20th June 2010, 04:21 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Uzzy View Post
*looks at 9/11's character sheet, spots the Dodge feat*
The usual Anglo moronic juvenile impotence to frame a serious counter argument longer then a one-liner smear. I called the US and USSR peripheral, but that includes the post 1945 UK, the heartland of Laddism, 6000 km below the level of Germany.

Now back on the ignore.
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Old 20th June 2010, 04:37 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post

I would have preferred that the war(s) had not occured in the first place.
I don't believe you on this. I think you love the whole subject of war, the two world wars, geopolitics etc.
Without the world wars what would you be doing now? Mucking out your racing pigeons?

Quote:
In my view (and this is pretty conventional) the rise of a Hitler was provoked in Versailles.
Hitler as passive victim. Cool.

Quote:
The wars resulted in the end of European global dominance which had lasted since 1492 and allowed peripheral parvenue entities like the USSR and USA to set food in Europe. The USSR in the meantime has collapsed so the job of undoing the result mentioned is now half done. The job will be finalized if the US has packed it's bags, all the Atlantic institutions resulting from WW2 (NATO, IMF, Worldbank, etc, etc.) have been abolished and a new alliance between Europe and Russia has been erected. In this new constellation 'race' will not be a forbidden concept, albeit not as explicit as was the case with the Nazis. I accept the Russians, unlike the Nazis.
As hodgepodges go, this one is admirably nonsensical.

Quote:
To give you an idea of my position, for a large part I agree with the analysis made by Patrick Buchanan.

I believe it is usance your circle to have a shower of acetone after such a revelation, but so be it (I doubt it is a healthy exercise this type of shower)
You aren't making sense. And he's usually referred to as Pat Buchanan.

Quote:
But if the war was to happen anyway than I agree with B. that France and Britain should have let the two totalitarian states murder each other. There is no justification for Britain and the US in choosing sides with the Soviets. At least not if you want to call this 'the good war' with a straight face.
Not answering the question, are you. Instead you seek to invalidate my question based on real history by introducing alternative hypothetical scenarios that are not available.
My goodness, why would you do that, I wonder?
It couldn't be becuase you'd have preferred Hitler to have won the war, would it? (Shock, horror)... but haven't the guts to plainly say so (more shock, horror).

Quote:
Patrick Buchanan calls these wars the unnecessary wars in contrast to what Chris Hitchins and Victor Hanson call the 'good war'. In this video these two discuss the latest book by Buchanan.

However I tend to be much more radical than Buchanan. I can afford that since I do not have a position to lose at MSNBC. Buchanan goes as far as you can go in the US, although you will have to endure sneers from the youknowwhos that 'they liked the German original better'.

In this thread I will base 'my' story on Buchanan's latest book supplemented with more esotherical items like the role of the Jews in establishing communism (Buchanan only mentions the Jews as holocaust victims, the holocaust about which I have grave doubts), the Balfour declaration, Suvorov's Icebreaker theory (I do not endorse it, just want to explore it) and of course the Jewish influence on Churchill.
Why is any of this relevant?

Quote:
Is is a general accepted fact that history is written by the victors.
Here is something which - to some extent - you and I agree on.
Certainly, if Hitler had won, then WWII history textbooks would have been very different for perhaps up to a few decades.
So I think it's fair enough to apply healthy skepticism to the official history of events, particularly when "we" (the writers of that history) identify as those who were initially threatened and then came through the adversity to triumph over it.
But there also needs to be some balance.

In other words it doesn't give you the right to deny perfectly good evidence for all sorts of, say, racially motivated laws, abuses, seizure of property, exclusion from areas of employment, forced separation and ghettoisation, executions, death marches, slave labour, transportation to concentration camps, medical experimentation, planned extermination etc..etc..

Not that that will have any effect on you, because I can see that for you this is a deeply entrenched ideological and world-view issue.
You probably won't change at all before death.

Quote:
But this version of history is used as a tool in the hands of those who want to degrade my society and to destroy the fabric of my civilization
What constitutes the fabric of your civilization?
Seeking to pretend that enormous amounts of human suffering never happened because it doesn't fit well with your political position?
That would be quite a ****** self-serving fabric of civilization to have, wouldn't it?


Quote:
and hence is no longer in my interest. So the task is to come up with a different interpretation that is more in line with my interests and obviously more in line with the truth. Or at least sellable as such since nobody can claim the possession of the absolute truth. You will call this propaganda. I will not object. The preparation for rewriting 20th century history is initiated in anticipation of a more or less immanent collapse of the US. To fill in a vacuum so to speak.
Still dodging the question.

Last edited by plumjam; 20th June 2010 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 20th June 2010, 04:47 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
The usual Anglo moronic juvenile impotence to frame a serious counter argument longer then a one-liner smear. I called the US and USSR peripheral, but that includes the post 1945 UK, the heartland of Laddism, 6000 km below the level of Germany.

Now back on the ignore.
I resent the impotence remark.
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Old 20th June 2010, 11:26 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
The rest of the thread will mainly consist in fine tuning the definition of 'British'
I think we need to consult a dental organization for assistance with identifying Britons.
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Old 21st June 2010, 12:05 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
They basically confirm my original thesis, namely that there was no war in the west.
The Saar Offensive during the Phoney War
However, the French did not take any action that was able to assist the Poles. Eleven French divisions advanced along a 32 km line near Saarbrücken against weak German opposition. The French army had advanced to a depth of eight kilometres and captured about 20 villages evacuated by the German army, without any resistance. However, the half-hearted offensive was halted after France seized the Warndt Forest, three square miles of heavily-mined German territory.

Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Can somebody explain to Matthew the difference between mobilisation and war?
Sending 11 divisions into Germany along a 32 kilometre front is called war. Generally you don't "mobilise" divisions in another country you are at war with. Let me know if there are any other basic facts I need to explain to you.
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Old 21st June 2010, 06:02 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
So who started WW1 and WW2?
Ooh! It was the Jews, right? It's always the Jews.

There's everyone, living together peacefully in harmony, and those pesky Jews keep starting World Wars just to entertain themselves.
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Old 21st June 2010, 07:42 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Going back to WW I .... it is an astounding testament to the complete stupidity of human beings and societies that I doubt that 1 % of the population in the 'developed' countries could provide a coherent account of how the war started, and I unfortunately have to include myself with the blockheaded 99%.

That said ... from this thread there is a consensus that the war started between Germany/Austria and the Serbs backed by Russia, and that the context was that the major nations of Europe were already on a collision course with an emerging Russia.

Is that right?
Using your post as a convenient jumping off point...
"Blame" lies largely with Austria/Hungary, as mentioned above, for pushing the terms of the damages (for want of a better word) beyond what may be considered reasonable. They did this on the basis that Germany would back them should it go to war and Russia mobilise to support Serbia...that's the alliances coming in.

One thing worth noting is that the German Staff were very conscious of Russia's increased industrialisation, especially with respect to railroads. This meant an ever reduced time for mobilisation. The German war plan was reliant on a (relatively) slow Russian mobilisation, allowing Germany to focus on France. In August 1914 Russia mobilised faster than expected (can't quote exact times, I'm afraid), which was why Moltke (the German CinC) redirected 3 Corps from the West to the East.

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
How did the alliances develop after the war started?
Italy swapped sides. That is, they didn't go with their ostensible allies Germany and Austria, but sided with the Entente in 1915. Turkey sided with Germany in November 1914, though that was no surprise. Bulgaria also sided with Germany in 1915, seeing German successes against Russia (and a chance to grab bits of Serbia) as an opportunity.

Romania joined up with the Entente in 1916, after Russian successes...but was in a rubbish position and was overrun in no time at all.

And a Franco/British army sat in Salonika, Greece, so dying of various diseases.

Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
And, to get the Jewish angle involved, how were the wars financed? Who/what were the major national and international financial institutions? What role did they play? And who is the fellow to read on this? Niall Ferguson? Watch the PBS version?
Before the war (and I don't have the figures handy) Britain and France were creditor nations...after the war they were in debt, and the US was the words creditor. At least for a while. Blimey, I hope that last bit doesn't give the eejit ammunition.

As for books, Hew Strachan's (still?) in the throes of a 3 volume history, but only the first one is out, and that was nearly a decade ago now. He does have a smaller one volume one, called The First World War. That's if you want something that isn't simply battles.
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Old 21st June 2010, 07:52 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
So you support the official story v1.0 as proposed in the first post without any modifications?
It seems that you support the official story v1.0 as generated by the Nazi German government without any modifications; your preferred explanation could have been lifted verbatim from a Goebbels speech. Why, exactly, does your parroting of a received explanation supersede (what you characterise as) anyone else's?

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Old 21st June 2010, 09:11 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
So who started WW1 and WW2? 'Easy', the average Anglo will say, 'The Germans!'...
The average anglo isn't educated to the degree to be able to come to an informed decision on this event. Fact is that both world wars were started by the English

heres the guardian from 5th August 1914
Quote:
Great Britain declared war on Germany at 11 o'clock last night.
The Cabinet yesterday delivered an ultimatum to Germany. Announcing the fact to the House of Commons, the Prime Minister said: "We have repeated the request made last week to the German Government that they should give us the same assurance in regard to Belgian neutrality that was given to us and Belgium by France last week. We have asked that it should be given before midnight."

Last evening a reply was received from Germany. This being unsatisfactory the King held at once a Council which had been called for midnight. The declaration of war was then signed. The Foreign Office issued the following official statement:-
and heres Neville Chamberlains radio broadcast speech from September 3rd 1939
Quote:
"I am speaking to you from the Cabinet Room at 10, Downing Street.

This morning the British Ambassador in Berlin handed the German Government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11.00 a.m. that they were prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland, a state of war would exist between us.

I have to tell you that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Germany.
see don't mess with the Brits, otherwise we will declare war on Germany, theres a double precedent
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Old 21st June 2010, 09:21 AM   #73
Ethan Thane Athen
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
blah blah....

The biggest losers were the Europeans. Obviously the Germans, but certainly also the Eastern Europeans who got enslaved by Bolshevism, courtesy Churchill. And of course Britain as well, which lost its empire. Only because they let an half-american traitor control their government.
Er, Churchill argued vehemently about the dangers of communism (he coined the phrase 'Iron Curtain') and actually tried to persuade Roosevelt to take on the Russians after the defeat of Germany.
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Old 21st June 2010, 09:59 AM   #74
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Er, Churchill argued vehemently about the dangers of communism (he coined the phrase 'Iron Curtain') and actually tried to persuade Roosevelt to take on the Russians after the defeat of Germany.
You're again doing the mistake of letting mere facts stand in the way of The Twoof (TM).

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Old 21st June 2010, 10:03 AM   #75
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I wonder if the answers could be more multi-layered and complex than pointing at a single nation, group or event and declaring them or it wholly culpable? I wonder if the world is infinitely more complicated than this simplistic, that-or-this mentality allows? I wonder....
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Old 21st June 2010, 10:09 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Spin-off from the holocaust thread.

So who started WW1 and WW2? 'Easy', the average Anglo will say, 'The Germans!'... and he will continue to chew on his bagel and listen to the monotonous rap on his iPod.

Is that true? Let's start a little quiz. Here a list of possible candidates:

1) Germany
2) England
3) France
4) Poland
5) America
6) 'The Jews'
7) Hitler
8) Churchill
9) Norway
10) Kazakhstan (according to the latest insights as proposed by carlitos and TSR a European country)
11) Other, namely...

Good luck.
Money has stated the last 20 wars. Its the biggest business there is.



In 1917 Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild was the addressee of the Balfour Declaration to the Zionist Federation,[18] which committed the British government to the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people. Lord Victor Rothschild was against granting asylum or even help to Jewish refugees during the Holocaust.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family

The IG Farben Building or the Poelzig Building, was built from 1928 to 1930[1] as the corporate headquarters of the IG Farben conglomerate in Frankfurt am Main, Germany.

The building was the headquarters for research projects relating to the development of Nazi wartime synthetic oil and rubber, and the production administration of magnesium, lubricating oil, explosives, methanol, and Zyklon B, the lethal gas used in concentration camps.[4][5]

The IG Farben Building was developed on land known as the Grüneburggelände in Frankfurt's Westend District. In 1837, the property belonged to the Rothschild family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Farben_Building

IG Farben went on to build a plant at Auschwitz so massive that it consumed more electricity per day than Berlin. It was in effect a privately run death camp, where inmate workers' life expectancy was only a few months.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...7098922518.htm

In 1941, an investigation exposed a "marriage" cartel between John D. Rockefeller's United States-based Standard Oil Co. and I.G. Farben.[15][16]
wikipedia

"The modern American economy was the creation of four men: Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Jay Gould, and J. P. Morgan. They were the giants of the Gilded Age, a moment of riotous growth that established America as the richest, most inventive, and most productive country on the planet. "
http://us.macmillan.com/thetycoons

"The Rothschilds' have several agents which their money got started and who still serve them well, the Morgans(JP Morgan) and the Rockefellers. The Rockefellers were Marrano Jews. The original Rockefeller made his money selling narcotics, (they weren't illegal then). After acquiring a little capital he branched out in oil. But it was the Rothschild capital that made the Rockefeller's so powerful. "They also financed the activities of Edward Harriman (railroads) and Andrew Carnegie Steel."

The Rothschild family (known as The House of Rothschild,[1] or more simply as the Rothschilds) is a European dynasty of German Jewish origin that established European banking and finance houses from the late 1700s. They are reputed to posses half the worlds wealth, 500 trillion dollars, with the bulk of the remaining being the wealth of Queen Elizabeth.

The Rothschild Mahzor (Jewish Museum, New York), made in Florence in 1492, displays in ten places the arms of the prominent Jewish family of Norsa
wikipedia

Siemens had a plant in Auschwitz, too. It employed about 100,000 people. Not all at once, though, there being heavy turnover.

I can imagine being a foreman looking for my best workers and learning that they'd all died from starvation, typhus, or taking a shower. I'd be more than irritated.
The Indo-European Telegraph Company was the brainchild of Werner von Siemens. This enabled the Rothschilds to know a day ahead of the war news that allowed them to take over the London Banking system and establish the Crown Corporation.

Quote:
The Indo-European Telegraph Company was registered and projected on April 8, 1868 to complete a line from London to Calcutta in competition with a planned all-submarine route. The circuit extended from Lowestoft to Emden in Prussia, then to Berlin to Thorn on the Vistula river in West Prussia, into Russia to reach Warsaw, Zhitomir, Odessa, Kertch, Suchum, Tiflis, Erevan, then to Djulfa in Persia through Tabreez to Teheran, then to Bushire on the Gulf, underwater to Karachi, through India to Calcutta on the Gulf of Bengal. Of the capital of £450,000, 80% was taken up in Britain and 20% by the Siemens companies in London and Berlin. Siemens financed their shareholding through the Rothschild, Schaafhausen and Mevissen banks.
http://atlantic-cable.com/CableCos/Indo-Eur/index.htm

Quote:
Preceding World War II Siemens was involved in funding the rise of the Nazi Party and the secret rearmament of Germany. During the Second World War, Siemens supported the Hitler regime, contributed to the war effort and participated in the "Nazification" of the economy. Siemens had many factories in and around notorious concentration camps [8][9] to build electric switches for military uses.[10] In one example, almost 100,000 men and women from Auschwitz worked in a Siemens factory inside the camp, supplying the electricity to the camp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens

Last edited by brantc; 21st June 2010 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 21st June 2010, 10:32 AM   #77
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For the First World War, there is plenty of blame for everybody, but ,in the end, you have to put the greater amount of guilt on Austra Hungry,which had wanted a war with Serbia for some time, and the Assisanation of Archduke Ferdinand gave it an excuseThat Austra rejected the Serbian offer which Gave Austria almost everything it wanted shows that. It was a desperate attempt to use military force to prop up a falling empire..interesting parrlels with the start of the 30 Years War here.
. But Germany is certainly second place with "The Blank Check" to Austria-Hungary,which removed any possibility that fear of war with Russia might restrain Austria from an attack on Serbia.
With World War 2, it was Japanese aggresion in China, and German Aggresion in Europe that started the war.
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Old 21st June 2010, 10:36 AM   #78
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
I wonder if the answers could be more multi-layered and complex than pointing at a single nation, group or event and declaring them or it wholly culpable? I wonder if the world is infinitely more complicated than this simplistic, that-or-this mentality allows? I wonder....
With Most wars yes, but in the case or World War 2 it was a pretty clear case of Germany and Japan wanting to dominate Europe and Asia .
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Old 21st June 2010, 10:46 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
The average anglo isn't educated to the degree to be able to come to an informed decision on this event. Fact is that both world wars were started by the English

heres the guardian from 5th August 1914

and heres Neville Chamberlains radio broadcast speech from September 3rd 1939


see don't mess with the Brits, otherwise we will declare war on Germany, theres a double precedent
And I'm sorry, Marduk, I guess you're kidding here, but the bolded assertion above is just silly. The UK declared war on Germany on August 3rd 1914, but Germany had already declared war on Russia (with whom the UK had an alliance) on August 1st, the same day France mobilized against Germany. Two days before that, on July 30th, Germany had begun to mobilize its own troops; the day before that, July 29th, Russia had ordered a partial mobilization in support of Serbia; because the day before that, July 28th, Austria-Hungary had declared war on Serbia for failing to accede to two of its ten intentionally unacceptable ultimata. These had been issued several days before that as a result of the July Crisis which had arisen among all the states of Europe when the Archduke, heir to Austria-Hungary, had been assassinated in Bosnia on June 28th, by a Yugoslav nationalist angry over the disposition of the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913, itself precipitated by Austria-Hungarian annexation of Bosnia in 1908...

... and so on and on and on, back through time. As an English journalist wrote in 1920:
... [W]e mutually agreed to call it The First World War in order to prevent the millennium folk from forgetting that the history of the world was the history of war.
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Old 21st June 2010, 10:55 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
And I'm sorry, Marduk, I guess you're kidding here,
Either I am kidding or I am making the nationalistic point that it isn't a World War until the UK is involved. I haven't decided which yet as on the whole this is a pretty pointless thread and the OP is an obvious troll
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