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Old 12th August 2010, 03:46 AM   #2001
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
I'm still a little confused about why the Jews -- whose cultural work-ethic allows them to make out like bandits in the capitalist system -- would want to destroy that system by establishing a regime that does away with individual wealth and divides all the resources equally among the people.
Every society has a pyramidal power structure. The genius of the Jews is that they come up with a program, suitable for that society at a given point in time, that will ensure them a position at the top of that power structure. The content of that program is irrelevant, in one society they promote Bolshevism (Russia), capitalism and neoconservatism in another (USA) and Turkish nationalism in yet another (Turkey). Obviously the intelligence level of the host society will determine how high they will get in that society. That's why they rule(d) the US, the UK and Russia and were kicked out from Germany (initially). The IQ-level in the US, UK and Russia is below 100, that of Germany 108. Jews operate at 115. You will get my point.

The Jews could use the relatively dummer people of the UK and US to destroy the core/pinacle of the white race, Germany. Now every white person, either in Europe and America, is in deep s*** because of this state of affairs. These poor British veterans will never understand by what truck they were hit. The multicultural desaster that befell the British Isles would never have happened under Hitler (or a British variant of him). Under present conditions and trends Britain is finished as a British society and will descend into chaos, civil war and genocide. It will become one big Iraq, Yugoslavia, Ruanda. Rivers of blood.

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Oh, and can you name some of the Jews who led the coup d'état, and if so, explain why it is relevant that they were Jewish?
I gave you the IHR links.

Last edited by 9/11-investigator; 12th August 2010 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:10 AM   #2002
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
Do you think that by constantly repeating the above falsehood it'll somehow become true? It was false before and it's still false. Not only does the claim fail on facts, it fails on logic too.
He responded to me with a quick-and-sloppy google list of nutbags with the same delusion. Doesn't seem to care for my reply, however.
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:17 AM   #2003
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
He responded to me with a quick-and-sloppy google list of nutbags with the same delusion. Doesn't seem to care for my reply, however.
You really think I am going to read 20,000 pages from 1946, written by the party that committed the treacherous act itself?

Get real.
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:32 AM   #2004
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
As is the North of England. We were a Viking Kingdom you know, up until 1066 when Harold defeated the Vikings at the Battle of Stamford bridge. We were later colonised by the Normans. they get their name becuase they are also Norsemen.

So I would think Norway would feel more affinity with England then germany.
Scotland surely? The king of Scotland used to be the king of Norway too,and vice versa.
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:39 AM   #2005
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
You really think I am going to read 20,000 pages from 1946, written by the party that committed the treacherous act itself?

Get real.
Thanks, I thought you'd fall for that. The material I listed is largely from 1941, original documents related to the events leading up to the attack. The bulk of the remainder is testimony before Congress during their investigation of the attack. And if you think testifying before Congress is a walk in the park, remember that the Republicans wanted to hang the blame on FDR as badly as you did (though without the obvious psychiatric issues.)

You just proved you are pathetic at even exploring a link, leave alone learning from the information provided. AGAIN.
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:23 AM   #2006
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Every society has a pyramidal power structure. The genius of the Jews is that they come up with a program, suitable for that society at a given point in time, that will ensure them a position at the top of that power structure.
I really hate to keep harping on this, but can you define what you mean when you say "the Jews"? All Jews, everywhere? A Jewish cabal? A few individuals who happen to be Jewish?

Quote:
The content of that program is irrelevant, in one society they promote Bolshevism (Russia), capitalism and neoconservatism in another (USA) and Turkish nationalism in yet another (Turkey).
Evidence?

Quote:
Obviously the intelligence level of the host society will determine how high they will get in that society. That's why they rule(d) the US, the UK and Russia and were kicked out from Germany (initially). The IQ-level in the US, UK and Russia is below 100, that of Germany 108. Jews operate at 115. You will get my point.
That isn't obvious to me at all. People who are smart enough to run things are too smart to get mixed up in politics.

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The Jews could use the relatively dummer people of the UK and US to destroy the core/pinacle of the white race, Germany. Now every white person, either in Europe and America, is in deep s*** because of this state of affairs.
I'm white. I'm a person. I'm in America. I'm doing fine.

Quote:
These poor British veterans will never understand by what truck they were hit. The multicultural desaster that befell the British Isles would never have happened under Hitler (or a British variant of him). Under present conditions and trends Britain is finished as a British society and will descend into chaos, civil war and genocide. It will become one big Iraq, Yugoslavia, Ruanda.
It will become three completely dissimilar nations?
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:44 AM   #2007
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Every society has a pyramidal power structure. The genius of the Jews is that they come up with a program, suitable for that society at a given point in time, that will ensure them a position at the top of that power structure. The content of that program is irrelevant, in one society they promote Bolshevism (Russia), capitalism and neoconservatism in another (USA) and Turkish nationalism in yet another (Turkey).
Kemal Ataturk was Jewish?!


Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
...Rivers of Blood link...
Considering the UK (and London in particular, as a microcosm if you like) has been a cultural melting pot for over 2 centuries, and Enoch was predicting this disaster in the 60s and we still haven't had it, forgive me in...well...not believing a word of it.
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:52 AM   #2008
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
- The Jews were responsible for the US entry of WW1, leading to the defeat of Germany; the sinking of the Lusitania/Zimmermann telegram were merely a pretext, Balfour/Palestine was the real reason for US war entry.
Name the Jews responsible, or admit you're making it up.

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- The Versailles Treaty was a 'Carthaginian Peace' instigated mainly by France and provoked the rise of a Hitler, just as Lloyd George predicted.
Well, duh.

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- WW2 as 'The Good War' is a myth invented by the victors of that war. The holocaust needs an urgent review just to make sure that it was not an invention of the Allies to make themselves look good and to draw the attention away from the many crimes the Allies committed themselves.
If you apply the same standards of evidence to the holocaust as you do to your "evil Jewish puppet-masters" fantasy, I think you'll find that the reality of the holocaust has been pretty well established.

Historians from every nation, including the former Allies, show no aversion to revealing horrendous moral lapses made by the Allies during the war. If you want to learn about these lapses, then open a history book. It's right there for everyone to see.

Do you know what the good thing about that is? You tend not to repeat history. After the 9/11 attacks, when there was a strong anti-Muslim sentiment percolating just beneath the surface of American society, we were all reminded of our despicable treatment of Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor. Reprisal against Muslims was, except for the actions of a few nutjobs, nipped in the bud.

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- Britain blundered it's way into the war by giving a war garantee to the Poles. It lost it’s empire as a consequence. Nobody wanted that, not even Berlin. Britain could have ruled the world (as in ’being the dominant force’) together with Germany, instead the British decided to commit suicide and hand over the world to the extra-European powers USA and USSR without any necessity.
What's so great about ruling the world? It's more trouble than it's worth.

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- Intensive negotiations were going on between Berlin and London using the Swede Dahlerus as a mediator in August 1939 to prevent an outbreak of war, clearly showing that the invasion of Poland was not a done deal for the Germans. They wanted Danzig back, a corridor and protection for the German minority and that was it.
They why did the Germans find it necessary to deceive Dahlerus?

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- One week before the invasion in Poland, Roosevelt knew about the secret annex to the Molotov-Ribbentrop accord and the very real possibility of the immanent division of Poland between Russia and Germany. He did nothing to inform and hence moderate the Poles. Roosevelt and his Jewish clique saw their chance to destroy the core of Europe that had managed to dethrone the Jews by helping (not preventing) a war in Europe.
Define "the Jews", please.

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- On October 6, 1939, Hitler again offered peace in all directions. Versailles Poland was gone, but the restauration of an ethnic rump Poland was still in the cards.
You're right...Poland was just...gone. It wasn't anyone's fault. It just happened. Yeah, that's the ticket.

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- Hitler never sought war with western Europe, it was forced upon him by the actions of Churchill, March 1940, by preparing for an invasion of Norway.
Sounds like Germany should have stayed the hell out of Poland.

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- Britain started the bombing of civilian targets in Germany as soon as Churchill became PM; the so-called 'Blitz' constituted not more than 5% of what the Allies dropped on Germany.
Sounds like Germany should have stayed the hell out of Poland.

By the way...the "Blitz" was a stupid strategy that showed how Hitler let his emotions get the better of him. While the Germans were dropping bombs on women, children, and old men, it gave the RAF the crucial break they needed to come back from the edge of defeat.

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- The flight by Rudolf Hess to Britain was a last and desperate attempt by Germany to establish a peace and alliance with Britain. Hess was murdered in Spandau by British agents to prevent that Hess would be able to tell this to the world upon his immanent release as proposed by Gorbachov. Typical British perfidy in action.
If you think you know why Hess went to Britain, then you are seriously deluded. NO ONE knows why he did it. It made absolutely no sense from any reasonable point of view.

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- Roosevelt knew Pearl Harbor was about to happen but let it happen anyway.
Wrong. The US wasn't even focused on Japan. Roosevelt and the military had a "Germany First" policy in place. If they wanted a "false flag" to give them a pretext to enter the war, then it would have involved Germany, not Japan. Germany might not have been involved -- at least, not right away -- if Hitler hadn't stupidly declared war.

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- WW2 was in the deepest sense a war about who should control European Civilization; Jews won, Europeans lost.
Really...? Then why did so many of them have to leave Europe and go to either Palestine or refugee camps?

(Not to mention this question: If the Jews controlled Britain, then how and why did the British try to stop them from immigrating to Palestine?)

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Yet to be investigated: Barbarossa (probably another Allied lie). Possibility that that war was also forced upon Hitler (Icebreaker theory).
Right. Hitler was FORCED to attack a completely ineffectual army that was ordered to stand down by Stalin in order to prevent even the perception that they were provoking the Germans. He was FORCED to blockade Leningrad for 900 days, resulting in the starvation of up to a million civilians...a MUCH greater disaster than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, and on a target with virtually no military significance.

He was FORCED to occupy lands whose people saw the Wehrmacht as liberators from Stalin, only to begin a campaign of terror against the very people who could have been invaluable in the fight against Russia.

I get it.
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Old 12th August 2010, 07:13 AM   #2009
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Guilty as charged
You know, I'm usually not proud to grant someone's claim when it highlights a flaw of mine.
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Old 12th August 2010, 07:15 AM   #2010
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Almost there. What remains to be investigated is why Hitler invaded Russia and what exactly happened around Pearl Harbor. Then you're rid of me as far as this thread is concerned.
He was an evil bastard.

The Japanese attacked.

Thread over.

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Every society has a pyramidal power structure. The genius of the Jews is that they come up with a program, suitable for that society at a given point in time, that will ensure them a position at the top of that power structure.
Maybe they deserve to rule, then, if they're so smart.
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Old 12th August 2010, 07:35 AM   #2011
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He was an evil bastard.

The Japanese attacked.

Thread over.



Maybe they deserve to rule, then, if they're so smart.
They are certainly smarter than our resident Hitler groupie.
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Old 12th August 2010, 11:46 AM   #2012
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So, nein/11, how long have you wished you were Jewish?
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Old 12th August 2010, 12:26 PM   #2013
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
the so-called 'Blitz' constituted not more than 5% of what the Allies dropped on Germany.

I have already explained why that is so; need I do it again? Moreover, so what? What is the point of you quoting this 5% statistic?


Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
By the way...the "Blitz" was a stupid strategy that showed how Hitler let his emotions get the better of him. While the Germans were dropping bombs on women, children, and old men, it gave the RAF the crucial break they needed to come back from the edge of defeat.

In regards to the bolded, sorry, but the RAF was never close to defeat during the Battle of Britain. It's a popular myth that it was on the verge of collapse when the Luftwaffe shifted from airfield attacks to hitting London, but it isn't true. While certainly Fighter Command faced some issues at various times, notably a shortage of pilots (which in reality has as much to do with administrative inefficiency as combat losses), it was never on the edge of defeat. Indeed, Fighter Command emerged from the Battle stronger than it had entered it, in spite of the losses it endured.

Most analysis these days shows the Luftwaffe actually stood relatively little chance of ever winning the Battle given the limitations of the aircraft it possessed and the tactics and strategies it chose to pursue.
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Old 12th August 2010, 12:57 PM   #2014
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
Most analysis these days shows the Luftwaffe actually stood relatively little chance of ever winning the Battle given the limitations of the aircraft it possessed and the tactics and strategies it chose to pursue.
I stand corrected. That'll teach me to get my facts from the History Channel.
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Old 12th August 2010, 01:12 PM   #2015
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One of the advantages was fighting over home soil. If a pilot was shot down he could sometimes be backk in the air again the same day. If a German pilot was shot down he usualy became a prisoner.
Some of the airfileds in the South East did get a pasting and pulling back to more northerly fields was considered. Some of the Radar stations were bombed but only one was put out of action, the gap in its coverage was plugged by a Mobile unit until it was up and running again.
Radar Pages Good description and history of RAF Radar.
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Old 12th August 2010, 01:19 PM   #2016
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Kemal Ataturk was Jewish?!




Considering the UK (and London in particular, as a microcosm if you like) has been a cultural melting pot for over 2 centuries, and Enoch was predicting this disaster in the 60s and we still haven't had it, forgive me in...well...not believing a word of it.
The theory that the Young Turks were Jews is old,old,old. It was created circa 1913 by a attache at the British embassy in Constantinople who was a violent Anti Semite and saw Jewish conspiracies everywhere. Sadly, he was beleived by a great many people at the British Foreign Office, and might have had a role in the break between Britain and Turkey in 1914.
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Old 12th August 2010, 01:34 PM   #2017
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Question for 9/11: Why, if Hitler didn't want to invade the West, did Gen. Halder think he was crazy for ordering the Heer to get ready for this in SUMMER 1939? (BS about "just in case" can be inserted here, btw, but only if you have Halder's (and the other German generals who felt the same way) words available to support that.
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Old 12th August 2010, 02:09 PM   #2018
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The theory that the Young Turks were Jews is old,old,old. It was created circa 1913 by a attache at the British embassy in Constantinople who was a violent Anti Semite and saw Jewish conspiracies everywhere. Sadly, he was beleived by a great many people at the British Foreign Office, and might have had a role in the break between Britain and Turkey in 1914.
'a attachee'... names please?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2176239/Cr...ho-Were-They-2

The Jewish Component

Quote:
The Donmè ("convert" in Turkish), was a Hebrew heresy whose followers converted [?] to Islam in the 18th century. They were most heavily concentrated in Thessaloniki. According to the Great Hellenic Encyclopedia[Megali Elliniki Enkiklopethia]: "It is generally accepted that the Donmè secretly continue to adhere to the Hebrew religion and don't allow their kind to intermarry with the Muslims."

The disproportionate power and influence (in light of their number) that theDonmè had on both the Ottoman Empire and on the Young Turk movement has been the subject of a great deal of commentary by many observers and researchers. The eminent British historian, R. Seton Watson, in his book, The Rise of Nationality in the Balkans. London, 1917 (H Gennisi tou Ethnikismou sta Valkania), wrote the following: "The real brains behind the [Itihàt] movement were Jews or Islamic-Jews. The wealthy Donmè and Jews of Thessaloniki supported [the Young Turks] economically, and their fellow Jewish capitalists in Vienna and Berlin -- as well as in Budapest and possibly Paris and London -- supported them financially as well.
Any revolutionary situation is an opportunity for the Jews to catapult themselves into positions of power. Likewise the Kemalistic revolution.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/Overthrow-of-Ottoman.html

Quote:
Of course, Ataturk himself was born in Salonica and was from a Donme(h) family of Jews. His embracing of Freemasonry occurred in 1909 and even the wikipedia acknowledges under its “list of Freemasons” that Ataturk was a member of the Rissorta Lodge (Number 80) of Salonica.
Again the Armenians were the only serious competitors to take over the dying Ottoman empire. These 'Young Turks' (compare with Bolshevists in Russia or Neocons in the US, as you remember those that organized 9/11) organized a little genocide (just like 'they' did with the Ukrainian during the Holomodor) against these competitors and Turkey is the only 'Islamic' friend Israel ever had. Not really a coincidence.
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Old 12th August 2010, 02:16 PM   #2019
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Question for 9/11: Why, if Hitler didn't want to invade the West, did Gen. Halder think he was crazy for ordering the Heer to get ready for this in SUMMER 1939? (BS about "just in case" can be inserted here, btw, but only if you have Halder's (and the other German generals who felt the same way) words available to support that.
Don't know about Halder, but Hitler was determined to get Danzig back with whatever means. We have already seen that Hitler went almost beserk during the last days of the Dahlerus mediation when he saw happenening what he feared that would happen all along: that no agreement with Britain would be achieved and that war with Britain was possible on the very day that he would invade Poland. And that indeed happened, albeit Britain waited for 7-8 months to start a real invasion (in Norway). And Germany was prepared for that eventuality, as the events have shown. The key consideration here was not to let a British expedition army enter mainland Europe. That had been the beginning of the end of Germany during WW1.

P.S. currently working on Pearl Harbor
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Old 12th August 2010, 02:23 PM   #2020
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Don't know about Halder, but Hitler was determined to get Danzig back with whatever means. We have already seen that Hitler went almost beserk during the last days of the Dahlerus mediation when he saw happenening what he feared that would happen all along: that no agreement with Britain would be achieved and that war with Britain was possible on the very day that he would invade Poland. And that indeed happened, albeit Britain waited for 7-8 months to start a real invasion (in Norway). And Germany was prepared for that eventuality, as the events have shown. The key consideration here was not to let a British expedition army enter mainland Europe. That had been the beginning of the end of Germany during WW1.
Diversions don't count as answers.
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P.S. currently working on Pearl Harbor
Good luck, I started my research in 1964.
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Old 12th August 2010, 03:35 PM   #2021
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Good luck, I started my research in 1964.
Hmmm, I needed only a few hours to learn about the truth concerning PH. But then again, I can use German quality sources.

Do we have a treat for you! As a special service to Gawdzilla here a translated summary of 7 video’s (together more than an hour) of a speech about Pearl Harbor by Dr. Walter Post (in German)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVFae...eature=related
Wer wollte den Krieg? (10 von 16)

Start video at 4:52 - Until 1854 Japan had been a almost completely closed agrarian country when A flottilia under Commodore Matthew Perry forcefully opened Japan.

Before 1850 there was hardly any industralism in Japan. Revolution from the top to industrialize Japan after 1850. 50 years later Japan was able to beat Russia 1904-1905. Reason war: domination of Manchuria (NE-China). This was to the turning point for Japan in becoming a great power.

Japan had little natural resources and a rapidly increasing population. China was politically weak, Japan consider Korea/Manchuria as its natural backyard. Most European powers had colonies on the Chinese coast as well, but not the US.

1899 US formulated the 'open door policy' to be adopted by China. Grew out to be the central policy motive towards China.

November 1908: Root-Takahira agreement, giving Japan a free hand in Manchuria. The US basically confirmed that Japan could annex Korea and Manchuria. Theodore Roosevelt wanted Japan as a counterweight against Russia in the east. American corporations however were afraid to be pushed aside by Japan in trade and later Wilson intervened against Japan.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ZxPJtei-Q&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (11 von 16)

Because of WW1 the US became temporarily somewhat friendlier to Japan. A lot of Chinese, looking back upon 4-5000 years of history, considered that state of their country as a humiliation. In 1905 first revoluationary Sun Yat-sen. Wanted parliamentary republic after Western example. 1911 massive uprising. Sun Yat-sen elected as preliminary president. 1916 China disintegrated. Warlords. 1912 Kuomintang, moderate socialist party. Leader again Sun Yat-sen. 1917 he founded a government in Kanton directed against northern warlords. 1920 national government. Social reform, trying to get rid of European colonialists. Wanted to make Great Power of China. 1923 pact Kuomintang with Bolshevists in Moscow. Weapon deliveries. The Bolshevists wanted to undermine the colonialists and to push for a communist revolution in China. In 1921 pact Kuomintabg with communist party to counter the nationalists. 1925, after death Sun Yat-sen succeeded by Chiang Kai-shek. 1926 war against warlords and capturing of Peking. 1927 breaking with communists. Chiang Kai-shek ended cooperation with Moscow. Bloody revolts in shang-Hai. Communists had to go underground and build partizanships. Establishment of Soviets in the countryside. One of them led by Mao-Ze Dong,

Many warlords cooperated with Chiang Kai-shek. In 1928 all territory south of the Chinese wall nominally under Chiang Kai-shek control. Japan disliked that Chiang Kai-shek brought ever more Chinese territory under his command, because Tokyo could expect to be challenged in Manchuria. Japanese nationalist even pleaded for further expansion of sphere of influence in Northen China. 1937 clash between Japanese and Chinese nationalists near Peking, unleashing a war that would last until 1945. In 1938 the Japanese conquered chinese coastal provinces.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQv3dtkbgy0&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (12 von 16)

1935 Chiang Kai-shek had pushed the communists in the defensive. Retreat is known as Long March. Both Japanese as nationalists understood that a war would only benefit the communists.

FDR wanted to restore world trade to recover from the depression. He wanted to cooperate with the USSR. Roosevelt aspired a NOW under American leadership (2:45). In his view there should be close cooperation between USA, UK, USSR and China. Authoritarian states like Germany, Italy and Japan were seen as the antipodes of a liberal world order and ’danger to world peace’. Roosevelt had no problem with the marxist USSR. Roosevelt was sure that the USSR would develop itself to become more democratic, while New Deal America would slowly adopt more socialist principles (convergence theory). Roosevelt was decidedly pro-Chinese in it’s conflict with Japan. Nevertheless, at the outbreak of the war declared the US itself as neutral, to the disappointment of the Chinese. Roosevelt had to consider strong isolationalist tendencies of the opposition in Congress resulting from WW1. In 1937 hiwever Roosevelt wanted to put agressor nations (’gangster states’) into 'quarantaine', meaning political and economic isolation in order to realise a 'regime-change' in the long run. Germany had concentrated itself since the 1920’s on China. At the same time their was German-Japanese raprochement. The Germans tried to mediate between china and Japan when in 1937 the war between Japan and China broke out but failed with negative consequences for all 3 parties (7:10). Churchill as early as september 1939 had suggested that the US should enter the European war via the Japanese back door (8:10). But without permission of Congress could Roosevelt not intervene in Europe, unless of course America itself would be attacked. In 1939 the relations with Japan had futher deteriorated. In july embargo on plane and equipment. Beginning 1940 further measures. The american ambassador in Tokyo Joseph Grew already warned in autumn 1939 against an oil embargo, otherwise Japan would be forced to get the oil from British or Dutch colonies elsewhere in Asia. In order to prevent this Roosevelt ordered to move his Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor in jan 1940. As a result Japan, Germany and Italy in 27 september 1940 agreed on an alliance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLbwXGse12w&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (13 von 16)

The 3 parties agreed to help each other if one of them would be attacked by the US. The goal was deterrence. But at the same time opened this pact the door to war, what Roosevelt had wanted all along. Jan 1941 Japanese proposals to restore good relations with the US. Japan proposed to de facto cancel the Tripartite Pact and to withdraw all it’s troops from Asia except Manchuria, a far reaching proposal. Roosevelt and Cordell Hull were hardly interested.

In August 1940 American decrypters were able to break an important code (purple code) Mid 1941 the Americans were able to read the messages between the Japanese foreign ministery and Japanese ambassies. Code name Magic.

21 July 1941 Japanese invaded French Indo-China (Vietnam). In reaction Roosevelt frooze Japanese assets in the US and began an oil embargo. Earlier in April 1941 there had been a secret agreement between the US, British and Dutch government in exile that their would be a common militairy response if British or Dutch colonial territory would be invaded by the Japanese (3:35). During the Atlantic Conference August 14, 1941, Roosevelt promised Churchill that the US would soon enter war in Asia. 27 Jan 1942 Churchill declared in Parliament confirmed this while adding that war entry would even happen if the US was not attacked, which garantees our final victory. The Japanese proposed a summit with the US in August 1941. Roosevelt doubted but Hull was against. At the time Roosevelt’s main foreign policy goal was entering war with Germany (5:40). One of the tactics was to provoke a German U-boat attack on American vessels. But the German navy avoided any confrontation and accepted considerable disadvantages in the process. 11 September Roosevelt ordered explicit shooting of German U-boats. In the Atlantic an undeclared war now prevailed. It was obvious for the Americans the Germany would not declare war. The only way that remained to engage in war was via Japan (7:00). In the mean time Japan got a military government. Since Japan had a GBP of only 10% of that of the US, the Japanese realized that their chances of winning a war with the US were minimal. Yamamoto had internally declared that Japan could withstand the US for maybe a year. The new military government prefered a negotiated settlement over war for this reason. November 1, 1941 Japanese high level internal meeting about the critical condition of the industry if the oil embargo is to be continued. Concensus was reached that if negotiations with the US would fail that Japan had to go to war. On November 4 a cable to the Japanese ambassy in Washington said that the limit was reached. A last attempt to negotiate should be undertaken. If that fails, the relation between Japan and US will be on the edge of the abyss (The Americans as said before knew the content of this message).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWmkXm9z9Oc&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (14 von 16)

Chiang Kai-shek in the mean time warned the US for an agreement with Japan, because this would undermine Chinese moral in battling the Japanese. Marshall and Stark were angered by this attempt to influence because they thought that the US was not yet ready to fight Japan.

November 5 cable from Japanese FM to amb. that 25 November was the dead line. This msg was also intercepted by the Americans. It was obvious that a war would start after November 25.

On November 21 last offer to State Department. Content: 6 month truce to come to an allcompassing solution. Again offer to cancel Tripartite Pact with Berlin and Rome. Next day message to Japanese negotiators that deadline had postponed for 4 days (November 29) but that after that events would folloow automatically. Msg again intercepted by Americans. November 25 Japanese naval units coursed for Pearl Harbor. November 25, meeting in the White House between Roosevelt, Hull, Stark, Marshall, Stimson. All knew that November 29 was the dead line. Stimson wrote in his diary that Roosevelt had said that the US probably would be attacked, maybe already next Monday. The Japanese are notorious for surprise attacks. The question was how we could manouver them in a position that they shoot first, without endangering ourselves too much. Hull was in favor of halting the negotiations. The pressure from British and Chinese was decisive. It was Hull who answered the Japanese negotiators the same day that the Japanese should withdraw all troops from entire China, including Manchuria, recognition of the Chiang-Kai-shek regime and public cancelling Tripartite Pact. This was unacceptable for Japan. Everybody understood war was now immanent (6:10). Next day Stimson called Hull, who literally said that from now on it was a matter of navy and army.

13 Feb 1932 admiral Harry Yarnell had demonstrated the possibility to surprise attack Pearl Harbor from aircraft carriers. The leadership of the Navy realised the vulnerable position of it’s fleet. On 8 October 1940 had admiral Richardson already advised Roosevelt not to permanently station the Pacific fleet in PH.

On that same meeting Richardson had asked the president when he thought that the US would enter the war. Roosevelt had answered that at some point the Japanese would make a mistake and at that moment would the US enter the war (8:33). Feb 1 1941, Richardson was replaced by admiral Kimmel.

Jan 1941 Yamamoto started to draw the first plans for a surprise attack on PH. PH was only part of a larger strategic plan. The July 1941 oil embarbo forced the Japanese to capture the Dutch East Indies. US and UK diplomats had already told the Japanese that such a move would mean war. A Japanese assault would be threatened in the flank by the Pacific fleet. Hence the decision to attack PH.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDkt9l2jRGw&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (15 von 16)

Kimmel and Short were hardly informed about the political situation by Washington. They knew nothing about Magic. They got no warning. Instead they were summoned to send away 2 aircraft carriers Enterprise and Lexington on November 27 to the islands of Wake and Midway, with the task of transporting airplanes to those locations. In this way the rest of the fleet was deprived of it’s strongest means of protection. December 7 was planned as the date of attack.

October 1940 Americans had also succeeded in breaking the code of Kaigun. Despite that Yamamoto had ordered strict radio silence several Japanese ships communicated encrypted their positions. This data was captured in Hawaii, Seatlle and other American locations (4:10). The American leadership was complete aware of what was coming.

On November 28 a telegram went from Japan to the embassy in Washington explaining why the Japanese government could not accept the humiliating American conditions. This meant that for the Japanese the deadline had passed.

On November 30, the Japanese ambassy in Berlin was informed likewise. The amb was told to inform Hitler that there was the utmost chance of a war between Japan and the Anglo-saxons and that it could happen faster than anyone could imagine.

December 6, 10:40, Roosevelt received a msg from American ambassador in London that 2 Japanese naval units, as observed by the British, had crossed the line that should trigger action as agreed upon with the British and the Dutch (ABCD). This meant that the US, UK and The Netherlands were at war, even before one shot was fired.

Roosevelt was now in a precarious situation (9:35). He was at war on the basis of a secret agreement, wothout knowledge, let alone aprovement of Congress. A huge scandal now threatened to occur, unless of course if the Japanese would fire the first shot. For this reason alone PH could not be warned. Because that would have meant big alarm and ships sailing out of the harbor.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM_p3aYyPzQ&NR=1
Wer wollte den Krieg? (16 von 16)

The scandal probably had implied impeachment of Roosevelt. As a consequence Kimmel and Short did not receive serious warnings resulting in that they were held responsible for the desaster. On December 6 Roosevelt got an intercepted msg on his deks meaning that war was inevitable. Advisor Harry Hopkins who was with Roosevelt said that it was too bas that the war would start with an advantage of the Japanese. Roosevelt replied that we cannot hit first. 'We are a democracy. We are a pieaceloving nation. We have a good reputation'.

Outbreak of the war was only a matter of hours. On December 7, the Japanese ambassy received the instruction to hand over a declaration of war on 13:00 Washington time to the state department. Leading officers who intercepted the message had little doubt that Pearl Harbor would be the target. They advised Stark to warn Hawaii (3:10). Stark said that he needed the permission of Marshall. Marshall however could not be reached, he was on a trip that lasted two-and-a-half hours. When Marshall returned and read the msg he wrote a very general phrased warning to general Short. He used a commercial RCA radio connection rather than military lines. Every sense of urgency was ommited. The result was that the ‘warning’ reached Hawaii 7 hours after the attack. We can assume that the delay was deliberate.

On 7:55 AM, 350 planes attacked in 2 waves. The surprise was complete. 2400 people killed. The oil storage was not destroyed. No carrier was destroyed and proved to be the most potent weapon of the Pacific war. The interventionist press did it’s work, and the until then leading isolationists were silenced over night. Hitler was completely surprised. On December 8, the German navy received orders to attack American ships without restraint.

Roosevelt decided to leave the declaration of war to the Germans (December 11, 1941).

The American were not yet ready to intervene in Europe. Hitler calculated that he had another year to defeat the Soviets. The war had turned in a World War.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Still anybody here who wants to maintain the ludicrous idea that Roosevelt knew nothing in advance?

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Old 12th August 2010, 03:37 PM   #2022
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Nice copy pasta. Did you read any of it.

And save the diversions.
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:16 PM   #2023
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Nice copy pasta. Did you read any of it.
Zero copy and paste. Listening, translating and typing.
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:25 PM   #2024
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Zero copy and paste. Listening, translating and typing.
Should have added "thinking" to the listen, then. All those old tired myths have been dealt with years ago. Repeating them just makes your sources look stupid. And by inference . . .
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:27 PM   #2025
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Should have added "thinking" to the listen, then. All those old tired myths have been dealt with years ago. Repeating them just makes your sources look stupid. And by inference . . .
But you are not going to say where the errors are?

Should be 'peace of cake' for you after 46 years of study.

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Old 12th August 2010, 04:34 PM   #2026
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
But you are not going to say where the errors are?

Should be 'peace of cake' for you after 46 years of study.
I'm not going to bother disassembling yet another conspiracy nut rant. You read the Hearing, find the smoking gun and tell us about it.

(If anybody else has a question, please post.)
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:37 PM   #2027
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
I'm not going to bother disassembling yet another conspiracy nut rant. You read the Hearing, find the smoking gun and tell us about it.

(If anybody else has a question, please post.)
That's discrimination!

I suspect that you are afraid to engage in a debate with me.
Asking to read 20,000 pages is ridiculous. I gave you 3 pages instead, representating the latest in Pearl Harbor research.

So where is the error?
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:39 PM   #2028
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
That's discrimination!
Actually, it's a complete and utter lack of respect for you.
Quote:
I suspect that you are afraid to engage in a debate with me.
Asking to read 20,000 pages is ridiculous. I gave you 3 pages instead, representating the latest in Pearl Harbor research.

So where is the error?
In believing that crap. It has been debunked hundreds of times before, and I no longer debate with UFO nuts, religious fanatics or Nazi creeps.
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:46 PM   #2029
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Discussion won without a fight.

Tomorrow I am going to concentrate on Barbarossa.

Material:

New Evidence on the 1941 'Barbarossa' Attack: Why Hitler Attacked Soviet Russia When He Did
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n3p40_Michaels.html

Examining Stalin's 1941 Plan to Attack Germany
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n6p40_Michaels.html

Stalin Prepared for Summer 1941 Attack
By Mark Weber
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p501a_Weber.html

Stalin's War
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p222_Smith.html

Exposing Stalin's Plan to Conquer Europe
How the Soviet Union 'Lost' the Second World War
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n4p30_Michaels.html

Suvorov - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n4p30_Michaels.html
Exposing Stalin's Plan to Conquer Europe

Hitler's 'Barbarossa' Proclamation - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n6p50_Hitler.html

President Roosevelt's Campaign To Incite War in Europe:
The Secret Polish Documents - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html

Defeat in the East: Russia Conquers -- January to May 1945 - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v03/v03p-91_Thorwald.html

Der Zweite Weltkrieg: Ursachen Und Anlass - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v05/v05p408_Granata.html

The Eastern Front: The Soviet-German War, 1941-45 - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p244_Lutton.html

Russian Specialist Lays Bare Stalin's Plan to Conquer Europe
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p22_Bishop.html

The Origins of the Second World War
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p-95_Franz-Willing.html

Soviet Russia's Persecution of Latvia, 1918 to the Present
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p-25_Berkis.html
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:48 PM   #2030
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Discussion won without a fight
Disdain earned in full measure.
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:53 PM   #2031
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
In believing that crap. It has been debunked hundreds of times before, and I no longer debate with UFO nuts, religious fanatics or Nazi creeps.
Yes you do, you did for more than 2000 posts.

And now when the subject turns to a field on which you are a self-described expert of 46 years, you chicken out.

Cannot be because of my perceived 'Nazism', UFO-worshipping of being a 'religious fanatic', because I have not changed during my last 2 posts.

The reason is that you don't want to be exposed as an incompetent fraud, because that's what you are.

And that's why you run for the hills.

You can run but you cannot hide. The internet is everywhere, exposing the Anglos for... ah well, I am going to sleep...
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:54 PM   #2032
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Disdain earned in full measure.
Exactly. People who do not fight should be disdained.

You.
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Old 12th August 2010, 04:54 PM   #2033
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
Yes you do, you did for more than 2000 posts.

And now when the subject turns to a field on which you are a self-described expert of 46 years, you chicken out.

Cannot be because of my perceived 'Nazism', UFO-worshipping of being a 'religious fanatic', because I have not changed during my last 2 posts.

The reason is that you don't want to be exposed as an incompetent fraud, because that's what you are.

And that's why you run for the hills.

You can run but you cannot hide. The internet is everywhere, exposing the Anglos for... ah well, I am going to sleep...
You only have to read the sites in my sig to know what I've done. If you can't do that, I really don't care.
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:02 PM   #2034
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Although the posts 9/11 have made in this thread are false, dumb and extremely offensive, I suppose we owe him thanks for demonstrating one of the motivations behind 9/11 conspiracy delusions: good ol' fashioned antisemitism.

Thanks, nazi.
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:03 PM   #2035
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
You only have to read the sites in my sig to know what I've done. If you can't do that, I really don't care.
I am completely uninterested in documents produced by the criminal himself, which can't be anything else than white washing.
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:05 PM   #2036
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
I am completely uninterested in documents produced by the criminal himself, which can't be anything else than white washing.
You play the role of fool nicely. Those are all primary source documents, originals. Now run along and read all 750,000 pages on those three sites and come back so we can talk intelligently about this.

Or not, I don't care.
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:05 PM   #2037
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Although the posts 9/11 have made in this thread are false
The idea of a discussion forum is to point out why the ideas posted are false.

Not to throw with mud.

But I guess that is difficult if you are defending the weaker case, namely that of a non-existing Anglo sainthood.
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:10 PM   #2038
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
The idea of a discussion forum is to point out why the ideas posted are false.

Not to throw with mud.

But I guess that is difficult if you are defending the weaker case, namely that of a non-existing Anglo sainthood.
The idea of the discussion is to point out neo-Nasties are the lower end of the food chain. With your help, we've succeeded.
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:11 PM   #2039
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Originally Posted by 9/11-investigator View Post
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2176239/Cr...ho-Were-They-2

http://www.iamthewitness.com/Overthrow-of-Ottoman.html

"Of course, Ataturk himself was born in Salonica and was from a Donme(h) family of Jews"
There's no "of course" about it. Do you have anything to support the credibility of those sources, or is this just a circle of nutcases who write made-up nonsense and then quote each other to provide a spurious patina of credibility for their fantasy?
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Old 12th August 2010, 05:15 PM   #2040
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
(If anybody else has a question, please post.)
Not a question, but I did some googling on this Dr. Walter Post. It was quite a burden to find something valuable, as most of the links that turned up came from CODOH, VHO, IHR and Stormfront.

German wiki-page Präventivkriegsthese (preventive war thesis): WP is a Suvorov groupie, and belongs to a group of right-wing or extreme-right authors that publishes in journals like Ostpreussenblatt, Nation und Europa, National-Zeitung.

A comment on AxisHistory:
Quote:
And here is a link to a short biography of Walter Post, author of "Die verleumdete Armee" ("The Slandered Army") which shows him to be at least a nazi sympathizer if not an outright Nazi:
The link does not work anymore, but pointed to an "Information Service against Right-Extremism" (which isn't available on the Wayback machine either...). Furthermore, he seems to whitewash the murder of hostages by the SS in 1941 in Yugoslavia/Serbia.

The Zeitgeschichtliche Forschungsstelle Ingolstadt, the German equivalent of the IHR, has awarded him a prize in 1993.

In 1998, Walter Post published and wrote the introduction for the German translation of George Morgenstern's "Pearl Harbor: The Story of the Secret War", that in the USA is published by the IHR.

Conclusion: yet another revisionist and whitewasher.
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"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf
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