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Old 2nd July 2010, 11:57 PM   #1
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Please read earlier threads tagged with "JVPLand" before reading this one.

STOPJAMESVANPRAAGH ========== RSL IN JVPLAND - CHAPTER 6: GRANT'S PASS? ==========

On June 8th I sent the following email to JVP:

Quote:
James (I'm still rudely assuming it's okay to call you that):

Someone in chat mentioned Grant's Pass, and it reminded me that I had yet to respond to

your kind offer of tickets for Susan and I to see you there.

We are hoping to be there, but cannot commit to it just yet.

I still cannot drive, so must rely on Susan, My Lovely

chauffer/nurse/cook/smoocher/everything to get me there.

GP is about 150 miles south of us (Salem), meaning about a five-hour round trip. We'll

see if Susan feels up for it (I hope so).

Assuming we will be there (if your offer still stands, that is), a few thoughts:

You joked on the JVP message board that you would "go easy on me" in GP.

I hope that means. among other things, that you will not have us escorted from the

premesis by security, as Sylvia did to us when we saw her at the Excalibur in Vegas.

I/We have no intention of being confrontational with you there. We will be your guests,

and plan to behave accordingly.

Others in JVP chat will be there, and they know I hope to be there, so I hope you don't

intend to make a spectacle of me. I for one promise to do no "psychic baiting" (giving

the psychic bad information to intentionally draw a bad reading out of them) or anything

of that nature.

I will take notes in case I wish to write about the experience later (on your forum,

Randi's forum or elsewhere).

Which reminds me: are audio or video recording devices allowed in the venue?

If not, I understand, and will not try to sneak one in.

Speaking of Randi: I emailed him recently about my recent experiences with you and your

site, and asked him what he thought of my going to see your show. He suggested that I

not do so, noting that it would be YOUR show, under YOUR control, in front of YOUR fans,

who will have paid good money to see YOU.

While not his exact words, he was basically saying "Don't meet the enemy on THEIR turf."

I do not think of you as The Enemy, James, and hope you do not think of me that way

either. But it will certainly be an odd situation.

Please let me know if the offer still stands, and also what you hope to get out of the

evening, and what you hope I will get out of it.

Also, if I do end up writing about the evening for an article on my site about you

(assuming I go ahead with that), I will first run that article by you to get your

feedback on it.

My best to [husband's name] and [dog's name].

Robert
I never received a reply.

A week or more after this, Susan told me that, due to her arthritis and some problems

with our minivan, there was no way she was going to drive us down to Grant's Pass for

the show.

I emailed JVP again. politely declining his offer of the tickets and explaining why I

could not attend.

I never received a reply.

Since there were those on his site who had been following the story - one of whom had

offered to meet me at the show, I posted a copy of that email on his site's message

board with the topic "To JVP: Decline to attend."
Others started replying to the topic, giving me suggestions of ways they felt it would

be "easy" for me to attend, with or without Susan! (by bus or train, for example).

One went so far as to say that if I were "really serious" about my skepticism, I would

find a way to be there!

Tiring of this, I made this reply:

Quote:
Before I was stuck in this chair, I thought I had some idea what wheelchair users go

through.

I didn't have a clue.

I don't think anyone who hasn't been in a chair can appreciate it. Even their

caregivers, who see a lot more of the issues than others, don't truly understand. Even

My Susan, who sees more of what I go through than anybody, still says things that show

me she doesn't really appreciate how difficult certain things are for me to do.

And of course, I'm sure I don't understand all of what she goes through as a caregiver,

either. But I see her frustration when others tell her "why don't you just do

such-and-such?" when they have absolutely no concept of what "such and such" would

entail for us.
JVP replied on the topic, saying:

Quote:
Robert,

I am very sorry you and your beloved Susan won't be attending. I was looking forward to

meeting you, not to heckle you (as I am a gentleman), but for you to have the

experience. I wish you well and think maybe working on a site that could help bring

more awareness to wheelchair bound people would be extremely beneficial. I would be

very happy to assist you in that endeavor.

All the best, James
I replied:

Quote:
James, thanks for that. I am confident that you and I will meet some day, whether in a

reading setting or not.

A site about "wheelchair awareness" is an idea I had not considered, thanks. I am such

a newbie at it that I don't know that I could do the topic justice. Someday though, I

bet I could! I have thought of (and i think I mentioned this to Cammy at one point)

creating a "Stop Strokes" site as a place to gather information on stroke awareness,

recovery, prevention and more. My Susan and I certainly would have appreciated a site

like that when we suddenly found ourselves curious about what strokes were all about.

And, at almost two years into it, I think I am at a point where my knowledge on the

subject, combined with my writing and website-construction abilities, could help many.

Of course, if I do create such a site, you can bet I will get hate mail from some

contingent of "pro-stroke" people. And there will also be some who will tell me that I

shouldn't put all life-threatening medical conditions into the same boat. "Sure,

strokes are bad. But heart attacks - now THERE'S a great condition!" And no, i am not

putting you in the same category as strokes! The "Stop" theme is just what I am known

for...
JVP replied, and get ready for this:

Quote:
Robert,

Why don't we come up with a list of "Stop...issues" to start website or websites about

which will have a benefit to many. I will assist you and work closely with you on that.

In this way you will get to really know who I am as a person and not some one who is on

television who skeptics try and attack without knowing who I am or what abilities I

have. How does that sound? (By the way...this was an offer I was going to make to you at the show.

I've got to go walk [dogs' names]

Yes, you read that right: Van Praagh offered to help me choose topics for future "Stop"

sites! I'm guessing "Stop James Van Praagh" would NOT have been one of his suggestions!

Just one more "chapter" to go, in which I will describe my exit from his site.

Mod InfoThread closed; for continued discussion see: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=179581
Posted By:Locknar
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Last edited by Darat; 6th July 2010 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 12:08 AM   #2
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Interesting series, Robert. I look forward to The Final Chapter.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 12:22 AM   #3
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RSL, if you do decide to do anything like a disabled awareness site, I'd be happy and honored to collaborate.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 02:03 AM   #4
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*glued to these threads*
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Old 3rd July 2010, 02:40 AM   #5
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What would you have done if you had been able to attend... and Van Praagh would have asked you 'on his turf' to cooperate on the STOP-sites?
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Old 3rd July 2010, 05:00 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by NobbyNobbs View Post
RSL, if you do decide to do anything like a disabled awareness site, I'd be happy and honored to collaborate.
This is an AWESOME idea.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 05:02 AM   #7
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BTW, this thread hasn't been tagged.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 05:52 AM   #8
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Tag needed

I was going to point out the same thing as Arthwollipt. Perhaps a mod could add the JVPLand tag to this thead for Robert. (I don't want to distract him from his completion of this series.)
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Old 3rd July 2010, 06:00 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by NobbyNobbs View Post
RSL, if you do decide to do anything like a disabled awareness site, I'd be happy and honored to collaborate.
Excellent! Excellent idea!!!!!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 06:50 AM   #10
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JVP may have given you an indication of what was in store for you at his show, had you gone. Just think how much of a jerk you would have looked if you wouldn't agree to forego StopJVP in favour of StopWorldHunger. Like you, I was initially disappointed in Randi's advice, but he doesn't fail to account for deviousness like I sometimes do.

Linda

ETA: Oops, I missed Anthem's similar suggestion.

Last edited by fls; 3rd July 2010 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 08:05 AM   #11
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Well don't forget.... Robert is a very smart person. He's worked and studied and learned more about psychics in the past few years than we will ever know. He doesn't go into any of this without a complete knowledge of how they think and work.

Deep down, he knows, as we should all keep in mind...these people are heartless. They know they are fake, they make money off people in pain, and they are masters at playing the guilt card all the while smiling on the way to the bank. In a way, people can't believe they KNOW they are fake because what they do is so so so so wrong. If you'd seen the video Randi has of JVP giving a reading to a grieving parent... you would know. Honestly, remember, it's rarely ONE reading with a case like a dead child. It's multiple readings for as long as JVP or any psychic can keep mining the money. The worse the tragedy or personal loss, the more the psychic knows he can keep them coming back. My friend paid a psychic over $40,000 to keep talking to her dead son.

Robert knows all this. He never forgets it. Thank you Robert.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 08:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by NobbyNobbs View Post
RSL, if you do decide to do anything like a disabled awareness site, I'd be happy and honored to collaborate.
Thanks, Nobby! You were on the shortlist of those I was thinking of asking.

Also, my Occupational therapist, who has been in a chair for 25 years.

I'll definitely give it some thought.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 08:53 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
BTW, this thread hasn't been tagged.
Oops! Fixed, thanks.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 08:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is an AWESOME idea.
Agreed. Now if I could just come up with a good "Stop" name for it. StopWheelchairUnawareness just doesn't have a ring to it.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 08:58 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Burning Beard View Post
*glued to these threads*
Your user name frightens me (shudder)

Thanks!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 09:00 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
What would you have done if you had been able to attend... and Van Praagh would have asked you 'on his turf' to cooperate on the STOP-sites?
Probably would have thanked him for the offer, but say that I needed some time to consider it.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 09:02 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Gr8wight View Post
I was going to point out the same thing as Arthwollipt. Perhaps a mod could add the JVPLand tag to this thead for Robert. (I don't want to distract him from his completion of this series.)
Too late! Now I'm all distracted!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 09:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by fls View Post
JVP may have given you an indication of what was in store for you at his show, had you gone. Just think how much of a jerk you would have looked if you wouldn't agree to forego StopJVP in favour of StopWorldHunger. Like you, I was initially disappointed in Randi's advice, but he doesn't fail to account for deviousness like I sometimes do.

Linda

ETA: Oops, I missed Anthem's similar suggestion.
Yes, I imagine Randi has seen more deviousness than the rest of us combined have seen.

I do get SSB emails from time to time saying things like "aren't there more important things that need "Stopping?" I address this on the site's FAQ page. If JVP had tried the tactic you describe, I would have responded to it much like I do on the FAQ page.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 09:28 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by kittynh View Post
Well don't forget.... Robert is a very smart person. He's worked and studied and learned more about psychics in the past few years than we will ever know. He doesn't go into any of this without a complete knowledge of how they think and work.
Thanks, Kitty! But, although I have been knee-deep in Stop activities in recent years, I don't know that I am all that more knowledgeable than the average poster here. You sum it up well:

Quote:
Deep down, he knows, as we should all keep in mind...these people are heartless. They know they are fake, they make money off people in pain, and they are masters at playing the guilt card all the while smiling on the way to the bank.
Anything else is just window-dressing.

Quote:
In a way, people can't believe they KNOW they are fake because what they do is so so so so wrong. If you'd seen the video Randi has of JVP giving a reading to a grieving parent... you would know. Honestly, remember, it's rarely ONE reading with a case like a dead child. It's multiple readings for as long as JVP or any psychic can keep mining the money. The worse the tragedy or personal loss, the more the psychic knows he can keep them coming back.
Quote:
My friend paid a psychic over $40,000 to keep talking to her dead son.

Robert knows all this. He never forgets it. Thank you Robert.
And thank YOU, Kitty. I need to PM you about your friend.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 04:35 PM   #20
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I'm the ADA auditor for our company and if such knowledge will be of use please let me know.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 04:44 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
I'm the ADA auditor for our company and if such knowledge will be of use please let me know.
Regarding the wheelchair awareness web site? Thanks!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 06:54 PM   #22
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Since this reads so much like an adventure novel I almost expected you to attend the Grant's Pass show "undercover". I guess it would be harder to conceal you identity because of your wheelchair and your internet presence.

Ultimately, of course, I am glad that you were upfront with your willingness to attend and your plan to behave like a guest of JVP. It adds credibility to the future StopJVP site that you were so frank about your research.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 07:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Allecher View Post
Since this reads so much like an adventure novel I almost expected you to attend the Grant's Pass show "undercover". I guess it would be harder to conceal you identity because of your wheelchair and your internet presence.
Yeah, my beard and girth werekinda hard to disguise, but the beard and the wheelchair - even more so.

Quote:
Ultimately, of course, I am glad that you were upfront with your willingness to attend and your plan to behave like a guest of JVP. It adds credibility to the future StopJVP site that you were so frank about your research.
I hope so, Allecher!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 11:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by RSLancastr View Post
Agreed. Now if I could just come up with a good "Stop" name for it. StopWheelchairUnawareness just doesn't have a ring to it.
The opposite of stop is start, so how about
www.StartWheelchairawareness.com ?

It is not yet taken.
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Old 4th July 2010, 04:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by RSLancastr View Post
Agreed. Now if I could just come up with a good "Stop" name for it. StopWheelchairUnawareness just doesn't have a ring to it.
No, I don't think it should be a "stop" site. It should be a separate thing from that.

I don't know how I can help (being completely able-bodied and with limited technical skills) but I am willing to do whatever I can to promote the site.
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Old 4th July 2010, 05:11 AM   #26
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robert what about sending someone else who is not as recognisable as your good self . in my opinion that person should not get involved in the show just to go and write down what they have seen . i recall someone doing the same thing for a taping of an appercane of silvia browne on the montel show that you mentioned on your stop silvia site . i am sure you have thought of this but i would be interested i knowing your opinion on this being a good idea or not . i can imagine it would depend on if a person is willing to buy a ticket to a show .

by the way what about calling your site wheelchair awarness.com . as arthwollipot says keep it away from the idea of your stop sites as it would be a different issue .

as to jvp helping you with further stop sites is that not just him trying to get rid of the competition if he is talking about stop sites in terms of psychics at all .

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Old 4th July 2010, 08:40 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
The opposite of stop is start, so how about
www.StartWheelchairawareness.com ?

It is not yet taken.
- thanks!

An interesting thought
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Old 4th July 2010, 08:41 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No, I don't think it should be a "stop" site. It should be a separate thing from that.

I don't know how I can help (being completely able-bodied and with limited technical skills) but I am willing to do whatever I can to promote the site.
Thanks, Arth!
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Old 4th July 2010, 08:44 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post
robert what about sending someone else who is not as recognisable as your good self . in my opinion that person should not get involved in the show just to go and write down what they have seen . i recall someone doing the same thing for a taping of an appercane of silvia browne on the montel show that you mentioned on your stop silvia site . i am sure you have thought of this but i would be interested i knowing your opinion on this being a good idea or not . i can imagine it would depend on if a person is willing to buy a ticket to a show .

by the way what about calling your site wheelchair awarness.com . as arthwollipot says keep it away from the idea of your stop sites as it would be a different issue .

as to jvp helping you with further stop sites is that not just him trying to get rid of the competition if he is talking about stop sites in terms of psychics at all .
In this case, sending someone else would not have worked. The two main purposes in going were to 1) experience it for myself, and 2) to address possible future criticisms of "you can't judge him until you've seen him yourself."
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Old 4th July 2010, 08:49 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by RSLancastr View Post
In this case, sending someone else would not have worked. The two main purposes in going were to 1) experience it for myself, and 2) to address possible future criticisms of "you can't judge him until you've seen him yourself."
ah i see . as you said yourself it is not easy for you to just sit at the back of the hall people would notice you .
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Old 4th July 2010, 08:55 AM   #31
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Pretty much. I think my unobstrusive days are behind me - if I ever had them.
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Old 4th July 2010, 09:38 AM   #32
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is it a case of when you how one works the other all work the same way ?
p.s i agree with arth . i may not live in the same country as yourself but i am a member of a couple of different forums on different topics . if you need help promoting any of your sites just ask and i will do my level best to help .

Last edited by Just_Me; 4th July 2010 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 4th July 2010, 12:20 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post
is it a case of when you how one works the other all work the same way ?
You mean cold readers? Yes and no. They all have certain traits and behaviors in common, but each seems to have a few quirks which set them apart in - usually - subtle ways.

Quote:
p.s i agree with arth . i may not live in the same country as yourself but i am a member of a couple of different forums on different topics . if you need help promoting any of your sites just ask and i will do my level best to help .
We all live in the same country - the Internet! And thanks so much!
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Old 4th July 2010, 04:31 PM   #34
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i appricate you taking the time to answer my questions . as a person who is newer then most to the skeptic world i do have a lot of them
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Old 4th July 2010, 04:41 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post
i appricate you taking the time to answer my questions . as a person who is newer then most to the skeptic world i do have a lot of them
I enjoy answering the questions! It's part of why I create the threads!

And always remember, if a question occurs to you, it probably has occured to others as well - and if one of you doesn't ask it, you'll all still be in the dark, and I will be totally unaware that I was unclear about something! So your asking the question helps you, me, and those other folks too! Never hesitate to ask me about anything in these threads, please.
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Old 5th July 2010, 01:15 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by RSLancastr View Post
In this case, sending someone else would not have worked. The two main purposes in going were <snip> 2) to address possible future criticisms of "you can't judge him until you've seen him yourself."
I wonder if people who say that also think that
- To be a good midwife you also need to have given birth yourself.
- To treat a person's illness you need to have had that illness yourself.
- To detect a con artist you need to have seem them in action yourself.
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Old 5th July 2010, 01:40 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by RSLancastr View Post
all chapter in 1 post.

Last edited by Aepervius; 5th July 2010 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 5th July 2010, 10:18 AM   #38
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Thanks, Aepervius!

I wish I could edit the OP to add that at the top - sort of a table of contents!
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