StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 8: Epilogue

[RSLancastr]

This thread should be used for discussion realated to "StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand", Chapters 1 - 8.

Posted By:Locknar

Please read earlier posts tagged "JVPLand" before reading this one.

STOPJAMESVANPRAAGH ========== RSL IN JVPLAND: cHAPTER 8: EPILOGUE ==========

I have written, and sent to JVP, an email in which I repond to his "Answer" from the Pink Panther topic.

My question, his reply, and my analysis of his reply will make up what I plan to be the first article on www.StopJamesVanPraagh.com.

The second planned article will focus on the whole "Barbara Walters" prediction, including comments he has made about it on his message board.

I wish to stress again here that I was treated, for the most part, very well over in "JVPLand." The users, Ops, Administrator, and even JVP himself (until he turned into the Red Queen yelling "Off with his head!") were very tolerant, and even supportive of my participation over there. Not everything I did over there was skeptical in nature. I created many Message board topics over there, many of which were duplicates of earlier threads I created here (such as "Uncle Everett", "Memories of Dorothy" and others). others I duplicated from there over to here (such as "May is Stroke Awareness Month").

I posted a fair amount there about my stroke - JVP expressed an interest in it, saying that his mother had suffered from a stroke for some time). I was in the chat rooms there enough to get to know several of the regulars, even developing "inside jokes" with some of them. I unexpectedly came to think of them as my "JVP family," and I do miss visiting with them. I'd like to think that some of them miss me, too.

I know that when I open StopJamesVanPraagh.com it will upset many of them, and that saddens me - but not enough to keep me from going ahead with it.

One of the hardest things about that month was missing you guys over here. You have been so incredibly supportive of my Stopefforts, and I felt I should be telling you all about what I was doing there, but I feared that, in spite of my pleas for you not to follow me over there, some of you might do so anyway, which would have likely led to my being shown the door much earlier.

You remember the "Wow. Just...wow," thread I posted here recently, thanking you all for what you have done for us in the past two years? I copied it to the message board over there. I hoped it would give them some insight into why I feel so strongly about skepticism, and show them that skeptics are generous and supportive too.

One of them posted in one of my threads "I can't help but notice that you show such PRIDE when you use the word "skeptic."

I guess that I do. It's an odd concept to them, since, more often than not, the word "skeptic" to them has meant "insufferable know-it-all jerk." I'd like to think that I showed some of them that "skeptic" can sometimes mean something else, but perhaps, with my "Pink Panther" question, I just confirmed their earlier definition!

My thanks to all who read this series of threads. I hope that it was interesting and enjoyable.

I'm back. I missed you guys!

[Amapola]

Great story!

One impression that I had: I believe that when JVP suggested that you write a site about wheel chair difficulties (or however it was phrased) that he was hoping you'd spend your time doing that instead of a Stop JVP site. I think when he offered to sit down with you and come up with some "stop" sites, he was hoping to deflect your energies into something that *he* would not get into hot water for. Maybe I'm wrong.

And if I'd been a person on the JVP board, after all the cordiality etc. I hope I would have been disturbed by the abrupt manner in which you were dismissed.

[ExMinister]

You are always one step ahead of me when I ask these kinds of questions, but something caught my eye in chapter 7, when Van Praagh accuses you of not bothering to respond to him twice when he claims to have asked your skeptical take on something or given you something to investigate.

Could you talk more on that?

Obviously, a believer reading that is going to be sympathetic toward Van Praagh, feeling as though you chose to ignore the evidence he DID attempt to give you.

So just wondered what those threads were about, on his forum, and how that all transpired.

At any rate, what a fascinating story! Thanks for sharing it here. I'm excited to see you moving forward on the Stop Sites.

[RSLancastr]

Originally Posted by Amapola

Great story!

Thanks!

Quote:

One impression that I had: I believe that when JVP suggested that you write a site about wheel chair difficulties (or however it was phrased) that he was hoping you'd spend your time doing that instead of a Stop JVP site. I think when he offered to sit down with you and come up with some "stop" sites, he was hoping to deflect your energies into something that *he* would not get into hot water for. Maybe I'm wrong.

Definitely a possibility that had occured to me.

Quote:

And if I'd been a person on the JVP board, after all the cordiality etc. I hope I would have been disturbed by the abrupt manner in which you were dismissed.

Some were. Others probably wondered what took JVP so long in showing me the door! I think that most probably never even saw my Pink Panther post, it only being there for a brief time, so, who knows how the rumor mill has spun what caused my abrupt exit.

[fls]

I noticed the same thing as ExMinister. Can you elaborate on what JVP was talking about with offering you the chance for inquiry?

Linda

[RSLancastr]

Originally Posted by ExMinister

You are always one step ahead of me when I ask these kinds of questions, but something caught my eye in chapter 7, when Van Praagh accuses you of not bothering to respond to him twice when he claims to have asked your skeptical take on something or given you something to investigate.

Could you talk more on that?

I talk a bit about that in my analysis of his reply, which I hope to be the first article on the site.

I have a vague memory of him saying in one of my threads something like "how do you explain my knowing the logo on the shirt a boy had been wearing when he died?" It was nothing but an unsubstantiated claim, and my first impulse was to reply "how do you explain my being able to flap my arms and fly to the moon?" But I may well have just let it go - I was trying to keep on top of several of my threads there at once, and couldn't respond to everything. But I would imagine that some there took it to mean that I HAD no answer to that.

[quote]Obviously, a believer reading that is going to be sympathetic toward Van Praagh, feeling as though you chose to ignore the evidence he DID attempt to give you.

So just wondered what those threads were about, on his forum, and how that all transpired.

Quote:

At any rate, what a fascinating story! Thanks for sharing it here. I'm excited to see you moving forward on the Stop Sites.

Glad you enjoyed it!

[Just_Me]

nice to have you back . those chapters made interesting reading . it is very informative to see how these psychics work .looking forward to seeing your site when it is assembled

[RSLancastr]

Thanks, Just Me! Nice to be back.

[ugot2bekidding]

That was an excellent read, thank you ( I would buy your book! ). I'm looking forward to your new site.

[RSLancastr]

Thanks, ugot!

[Gilmar]

Good series, showing your approach, thought processes, and research. At least JVP and John Edwards don't run churches as a side venture (I hope).

[arthwollipot]

Wonderful story. Would make an excellent chapter of your book.

I think you may have dropped the ball a little with your Pink Panther email. You let your negative emotions show. It was the fact that you didn't show your negative emotions to JVPLand that made you the "nice skeptic" over there. When you mentioned the coffee mug, you blew it with JvP. I think that if your email direct to him had been more in the vein of your message board post, the situation might not have disintegrated the way it did.

But what can you do? JvP seemed like a really nice guy until you started questioning his methods, and then he turned into a jerk. Either he's terribly insecure, or he knows that you were spot-on in your analysis of his method.

[Reno]

Robert, I just received in the mail yesterday, a little thing I posted to you just after your stroke. It's marked, as that old Evis song relates: "return to sender" (first time I've ever seen that :0)

It's addressed to your old home and it must have been bouncing around for some time. If you would care to PM me an address, I'll repost it

Reno

[RSLancastr]

Just PM'd you. sorry and thanks!

[RSLancastr]

Originally Posted by Gilmar

Good series, showing your approach, thought processes, and research. At least JVP and John Edwards don't run churches as a side venture (I hope).

Not that I'm aware of, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least! They have people buying everything that comes out of their mouths, and asking them every day for "spiritual advice," so I can see how starting a church, or even a new religion, would be very tempting, especially given the tax advantages and such. I would not be surprised to learn that Browne only started her church/religion after her follower/fans asked her to do so.

[RSLancastr]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Wonderful story. Would make an excellent chapter of your book.

"Chapter"? It's enough to be the third volume in the "Stop Them" Trilogy" (Volumes 1 and 2 being "Kaz" and "Sylvia Browne."

Quote:

I think you may have dropped the ball a little with your Pink Panther email. You let your negative emotions show. It was the fact that you didn't show your negative emotions to JVPLand that made you the "nice skeptic" over there. When you mentioned the coffee mug, you blew it with JvP. I think that if your email direct to him had been more in the vein of your message board post, the situation might not have disintegrated the way it did.

I have wondered the same thing. That "Pink Panther" reading so deeply offended me that it definitely brings negative emotions out, almost ten years later. But hey, if I hadn't sent that email, I might still be in JVPLand, and wouldn't have been back here to share the story with you guys!

Quote:

But what can you do? JvP seemed like a really nice guy until you started questioning his methods, and then he turned into a jerk. Either he's terribly insecure, or he knows that you were spot-on in your analysis of his method.

Or both. My guess is "both".

[Kopji]

Whew!
I'm glad I decided to wait and read them all at once. A page turner.

I was surprised to hear of an open animosity between James and Sylvia. With the ordinary psychic, healers, energy work people I see almost daily I always see the opposite - either there is silence (like in if you can't say anything nice about them don't say anything...), or they are all in a very wide happy circle that eventually recommends each other's skills or products in some way.

If people start doubting one famous psychic, they could all be targets of uncomfortable questions. Better to even grudgingly support each other (yeah, she's a witch but she has skilz) than imply that she might be a 'fake'.

It could be that more than one person runs the JVP username but I'm not sure it matters.

The 'psychic business' facinates me a little - it is a libertarians paradise. If you feel like you are receiving value for the product you are getting, you come back, if not, go somewhere else. BUT DON'T LEAVE THE ROOM. Sheesh, I spent most of my life in religion before it ever occured to me that 'none of the above' was even a choice option. Likewise, their welcoming of your intent with the stopsylvia site seems almost bizzare to me. Maybe at the superstar level, ego comes into play more.

James definitely runs a business (actually probably several related businesses). I think that from your very first forum posts the business plan for how it would go could have been already laid out. You would continue on friendly 'skeptic track' until it started to go off the rails. If your entire site presence was removed, it is not unreasonable to assume that others have met that fate too.

[ExMinister]

Originally Posted by Kopji

I was surprised to hear of an open animosity between James and Sylvia. With the ordinary psychic, healers, energy work people I see almost daily I always see the opposite - either there is silence (like in if you can't say anything nice about them don't say anything...), or they are all in a very wide happy circle that eventually recommends each other's skills or products in some way.

If people start doubting one famous psychic, they could all be targets of uncomfortable questions. Better to even grudgingly support each other (yeah, she's a witch but she has skilz) than imply that she might be a 'fake'. (snipped for brevity)

I think the exceptions happen when one of them is discredited. I have noticed that the others are then quick to come forward and criticize in what is probably an attempt to separate themselves, and also an attempt to capitalize on the opportunity to make themselves look superior. So immediately they come forward to bash on that person and point out how "real" mediums (like themselves) operate. No loyalty there whatsoever.

[RSLancastr]

Originally Posted by Kopji

Whew!
I'm glad I decided to wait and read them all at once. A page turner.

Thanks, Kopji!

Quote:

I was surprised to hear of an open animosity between James and Sylvia. With the ordinary psychic, healers, energy work people I see almost daily I always see the opposite - either there is silence (like in if you can't say anything nice about them don't say anything...), or they are all in a very wide happy circle that eventually recommends each other's skills or products in some way.

In that same chat I had with JVP, he mentioned to me that he had once been "rude" to Sylvia on the the Howard Stern Show. I recall reading about that some time back, but don't recall the details.

It could be, as ExM says, a matter of distancing one's self from someone who has already been discredited (I think Browne's support within "woo" circles in general has waned in recent years), in an effort to seem "better" than them (abandoning the wounded one in the herd, lest you be taken down with them), or it could be as simple as hoping to absorb the other person's fan base - people already proven to be vulnerable to their typeof con)

Quote:

If people start doubting one famous psychic, they could all be targets of uncomfortable questions. Better to even grudgingly support each other (yeah, she's a witch but she has skilz) than imply that she might be a 'fake'.

Up until the other psychic has been pretty well "outed" as a fraud, at which point you have to cut ties with her or be dragged down with her.

Quote:

It could be that more than one person runs the JVP username but I'm not sure it matters.

Possibly, but I did not get that feeling.

Quote:

The 'psychic business' facinates me a little - it is a libertarians paradise. If you feel like you are receiving value for the product you are getting, you come back, if not, go somewhere else. BUT DON'T LEAVE THE ROOM. Sheesh, I spent most of my life in religion before it ever occured to me that 'none of the above' was even a choice option. Likewise, their welcoming of your intent with the stopsylvia site seems almost bizzare to me. Maybe at the superstar level, ego comes into play more.

James definitely runs a business (actually probably several related businesses). I think that from your very first forum posts the business plan for how it would go could have been already laid out. You would continue on friendly 'skeptic track' until it started to go off the rails. If your entire site presence was removed, it is not unreasonable to assume that others have met that fate too.

I don't know if all traces of my stay have been scrubbed from the site, but they may have.

[Kopji]

Thanks both. I suppose that I should not try to ascribe motivations...

If I have a point it would be that JVP is running a business, and some things are probably done with a general business strategy in mind.

I think that making online friends and then being 'deleted' from their midst would bother most of us and seems harsh, but is not a reflection on their forum members, just the mechanics of how JVP wants to run his site - ultimately a tool to bring new business in.

Sylvia's books still seem to be popular. It is surely good to own your publishing company (Hay House). Saw her doing something on TV the other day, infomercial or something like that. Maybe she's making a comeback after the mine debacle. (Truthfully, I always turn the channel or leave the room when she's on.)

The 'Pink Panther' story is sad. I can attest it goes on all the time in one form or another - it is not an isolated incident. On getting something right like a logo... IMHO really good 'cold reading' is much more complex than we think. Even a skilled magician 'performer' does not do it hundreds of times - and with believers. I can't do it but I've seen it done, and after hundreds of people - patterns emerge.

Good luck with the JVP site. To some extent I don't think they fear skeptics as much as each other. Criticism by skeptics... eh, heck, in their own minds they are always right.

[Maia]

Wow! It was a fascinating, suspenseful page-turner. Thanks, RSL.

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

I have wondered the same thing. That "Pink Panther" reading so deeply offended me that it definitely brings negative emotions out, almost ten years later. But hey, if I hadn't sent that email, I might still be in JVPLand, and wouldn't have been back here to share the story with you guys!

The same thing occurred to me too. But... his reaction wouldn't really have been any different in the long run no matter how tactful you were. It just might have been more drawn out, and not as dramatic. The facts are still the same: he uses ridiculous cold reading techniques to prey on grief-stricken people, and if you call him on it, whether you're particularly nice about it or not, what can he possibly say?

People like JVP always remind me of a scene in The Dead Zone. Remember when Johnny Smith wakes up from the coma for the first time, and the reporter hands him a St. Christopher medal and dares him to tell him all about his sister? Johnny actually does tell him every conceivable detail immediately without any prompting, questions being asked, claims being made, hints, encouragement, etc., etc. So it's not a cold reading, and because he didn't know anything about the sister before getting the medal, it isn't a hot reading, either. This being fiction, he's actually psychic. The reporter punches him, which I think is the way that I think someone would be more likely to actually react in this situation. Anyone who was genuinely psychic in this area would come across as incredibly creepy and disturbing, because manipulation and putting on a act would play no part in what they would do.

This would be a good scenario for fiction, obviously... but I don't think that a (completely hypothetical) person who could actually do what JVP, Sylvia Browne, etc. claim to do could compete with them. Their gifts (and I do think that they have considerable gifts) are in the area of manipulation and telling people what they want to hear. Imagine if a real psychic told the grieving parents "Well, your child was being abused by your cousin-- you know, the one you allowed to babysit her?", and she used to cry at night because she didn't think you'd believe her, and her Pink Panther toy was her one friend, and-- oops. They're running out screaming again. I wish I didn't have to always tell the truth about these things..."

[RSLancastr]

Yikes! There's a Stephen King plot right there. The Truthful Psychic.

[Maia]

That gives me an idea...

[RSLancastr]

[Aepervius]

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

By popular demand (translation: One or two people suggested it),

here are links to all of the "RSL in JVPLand" threads in order:

StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 0: Prologue
StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 1: Down The Rabbit Hole
StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 2: RSLQ&A
StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 3: Meditations
StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 4: "JVP's New Best Buddy"
StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 5: The Two Jameses
StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 6: Grant's Pass?
StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 7a: The "Pink Panther" Reading
StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 7b: The "Pink Panther" Anther?
StopJVP - RSL in JVPLand - Chapter 8: Epilogue

all chapter in 1 post.

[RSLancastr]

By the way, I did a little peeking over there last night - seems that several of my message board topics are still there, so they have not tried to scrub all traces of my visit away, which makes me feel a bit better. I have also emailed links to all of my "RSL in JVPLand" posts here to a few of the people I met there, and, so ar, the response has been positive. Not rave reviews, but - mildly positive. They still hope that some day I have a "spiritual awakening," but that is to be expected.

[RSL's better half]

The cynic in me says Van Praagh knew who RSL was before he ever encountered him in the chat room. His mention of the Stop Sylvia site was calculated and timed, and he knew Robert was the author of the site. It was a little shmoozing, and perhaps a way to let RSL know "I know who you are. I am informed and have studied-up on you." I think it was his "shot across the bow" until he could determine RSL's true motives for being on his site. I think he is likely sneaky and underhanded, two-faced, a real conman. And he is conceited enough to believe nobody can touch him. Well, RSL may not be able to do much more than bring awareness and reason to those who will read the site, but he definitely can have a detremental effect in JVP's income.

Keep your friends close, JVP, and RSL closer. Don't say I never warned you. I warned a lot of you, by name, almost 2 years ago in my RSL Progress and News thread. RSL has more time for you now . . . he's baa-ack!

[RSLancastr]

Yes, My Better Half, I wondered if he knew who I was in that chat room. I had spelled out who I was in that "Who is RSL?" post, which the administrator had already told me she had sent to JVP for his approval. In fact,during our chat (I sure wish I had saved a log of it!) after he said "yours? No way- it was brilliant!" I said "I thought you knew - Cammy said she had emailed you my post about it" He replied that he had yet to go through all of his emails for that day. I recognized that he might be playing up to my ego - flattering me about my web site. In following days, he did some more flattery - again, a cornerstone of cold reading (tell them what they want to hear), such as a time in chat when he asked me what my astrological sign was. when I replied that I was an Aquarius, he said something like "that's funny - I was going to guess that you were either an Aquarius or a (some other sign)." He went on to say that Aquariuses are the scientists and thinkers of the zodiac - playing up to what he (correctly) assumed was part of my self-image. Not hard to guess about someone who introduces themself as a "skeptic." I recognized these things as flattery at the time, but I suppse they still worked, to some degree, for all that. Perhaps because I thiunk I am "too smart" to fall for such obvious tactics!

[Just_Me]

when you first met him he comes across to me as a resonably good buissness man . don;t out right insult a person who might become a customer . ( is my post making sense at all !)
surely if he was a real pyschic he would'nt have to ask about your star sign espeically if he was going to guess it !

after reading your stop silvia page i went and looked at both the web site and you tube page of silvia brown . did'nt she wrote a book about "fake psychics" i have vauge recollections of a you tube film, or a film on her site where she said a book she had written would not make her popular with others in her "trade"( i paraphrase her words but that was the upshot ) is it a case of knock the oposition ?

i also went to the jvp web site only to have a look at who he is ( i did'nt go near the forum or chat room ) until i came here i had never heard of him ( even in my christian days i would run a mile from anyone calling themselves psychic) another thing that makes me think you are right in taking the course of action you are now on is that if you look under the faq at the grief support section all he tires to do is sell 2 books . there is no help on that section at all . also he has written a bok on how he is visited by the people who sadly perished on 9/11 and he says that they are telling him they are "very much alive "

[RSLancastr]

Yes, one of Browne's most recent books is titled (IIRC) Secrets of the Psychics But there is only a couple of paragraphs in one chapter about how to spot a "phony psychic." Not much of a threat to anyone. And she has always had a blurb on her web site warning about "phony psychics" who offer to cure you of a curse, etcetera. I think she hopes that, by acknowledging that there are some frauds in her trade, she makes herself look more "legit." I saw a brief blurb about JVP's new book on 9/11 "spirits." Yikes.

[RSLancastr]

I just received a message from one of the folks I met in JVPLand. In a previous message Ihad asked her what was new over there, and she replied that she rarely went there, saying that it was pretty boring there now that I wasn't there any more.

[Susan Gerbic]

Okay I've made it through all the threads. Awesome work Robert as usual. I'm supposed to be cleaning out my closet today, thanks for allowing me an hour reprieve.

I'm fascinated with your experience. Wish you had kept a copy of your chat discussions also. Would have loved to see the one where you give him your sign and he says, "yeah cause I was going to say you were an Aquarius". HAHAHAHAHAHA

He sure did seem nice at the beginning, and what a venomous snake at the end "have a nice day". Worm

I suppose he is lurking here reading these threads? Welcome to the JREF forum JVP!

I'm sure you will cover this in his stop site, but do you think he is a con-man or a believer? Maybe a bit of both?

Susan, the other one!

BTW ~ Can't wait to see you both at TAM8 in a couple days!

[RSLancastr]

Originally Posted by sgf8

Okay I've made it through all the threads. Awesome work Robert as usual. I'm supposed to be cleaning out my closet today, thanks for allowing me an hour reprieve.

Well, thanks for wading through them. It only took you an hour?

Quote:

I'm fascinated with your experience. Wish you had kept a copy of your chat discussions also. Would have loved to see the one where you give him your sign and he says, "yeah cause I was going to say you were an Aquarius". HAHAHAHAHAHA

At least it wasn't "because your dead loved one is telling me you're an Aquarius."

Quote:

He sure did seem nice at the beginning, and what a venomous snake at the end "have a nice day". Worm

Which is he? Snake, or worm?

Quote:

I suppose he is lurking here reading these threads? Welcome to the JREF forum JVP!

It would be understandable if he was! Hell, I'm hanging out on a couple of sites where they are talking about me!

Quote:

I'm sure you will cover this in his stop site, but do you think he is a con-man or a believer? Maybe a bit of both?

I don't see how someone can cold read for decades and still believe they are really a "medium."

Quote:

Susan, the other one!

BTW ~ Can't wait to see you both at TAM8 in a couple days!

See you there!

[Quinn]

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

I don't see how someone can cold read for decades and still believe they are really a "medium."

Actually, it's way more common than you might suspect. Cold reading is like any other skill in that the more you do it, the better you get at it, and the less you have to think about it. The "process" fades into the background, and starts happening at a subconscious level where you no longer even notice it. This causes a lot of readers to start believing their own hype, so to speak. Because they've internalized these and techniques and processes to the point where they're no longer aware of them, when they get positive results, it really does seem like information coming in from some "extra-sensory" source. This is how a lot of honest, ethical people end up genuinely believing in their own psychic abilities.

Note that I'm not saying I think that's the case with JVP, who strikes me as way too slick and calculating not to know exactly what he's doing (though I'm constantly amazed at the mind's ability to compartmentalize things, so I may be totally off there).

[RSLancastr]

Originally Posted by Quinn

Actually, it's way more common than you might suspect. Cold reading is like any other skill in that the more you do it, the better you get at it, and the less you have to think about it. The "process" fades into the background, and starts happening at a subconscious level where you no longer even notice it. This causes a lot of readers to start believing their own hype, so to speak. Because they've internalized these and techniques and processes to the point where they're no longer aware of them, when they get positive results, it really does seem like information coming in from some "extra-sensory" source. This is how a lot of honest, ethical people end up genuinely believing in their own psychic abilities.

Yes, I get that. But I find it hard to believe that the lying they have to do to keep it all going could be done unawares.

Quote:

Note that I'm not saying I think that's the case with JVP, who strikes me as way too slick and calculating not to know exactly what he's doing (though I'm constantly amazed at the mind's ability to compartmentalize things, so I may be totally off there).

Yes, it's impossible (for me anyway) to say one way or the other at present. perhaps after further research I will feel more comfortable in doing so.

[steenkh]

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

Yes, I get that. But I find it hard to believe that the lying they have to do to keep it all going could be done unawares.

There was once a persosn here on this forum who said that she had been using cold reading techniques as a living for a long time without realising that that was what it was. She really thought she had a unique ability. Reading about cold reading on the JREF forum made her realise what was happening, and she could not continue doing her routine.

It is - barely - possible that JVP really is not aware that he is using cold reading, but since he is probably often confronted with the claim, and since he is probably not shirking a little hot reading when the opportunity offers itself, it is difficult to believe that he does not realise it at some level.

[pgwenthold]

"How is what you are doing any different from cold reading?"
"Oh, I am REALLY psychic."
"OK, but we have cold reading, and we have what you do, and they are exactly the ame thing. So what are you doing that is different from cold reading?"
"I am really psychic, and am doing it psychically."
"If you are psychic, then why are you using cold reading techniques?"

[RenaissanceBiker]

Robert, have you considered a more general "Stop Cold Reading" site to tie all your works together?

[headscratcher4]

Robert: just as JVP has invited to divert you with alternative sites that could have the effect of making anything you do about him look small, vindictive, etc. Why not suggest to him that he support sites the expose the phonies in the spiritual world? Surely, as a "real" seer, he could have no objection to exposing the rank phonies who prey upon poor people? Maybe he would also have some good ideas on how average joes could test whether a psychic is real (like him) or a faker. Turn the tables!

[RSLancastr]

Originally Posted by steenkh

There was once a persosn here on this forum who said that she had been using cold reading techniques as a living for a long time without realising that that was what it was. She really thought she had a unique ability. Reading about cold reading on the JREF forum made her realise what was happening, and she could not continue doing her routine.

That would be ChillZero. And I took her story into account. I don't recall how long she was cold reading unawares, but I don't think it was as long as JVP has been giving "readings" - 25 years or more.

Quote:

It is - barely - possible that JVP really is not aware that he is using cold reading, but since he is probably often confronted with the claim, and since he is probably not shirking a little hot reading when the opportunity offers itself, it is difficult to believe that he does not realise it at some level.