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Tags software , telepathy

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Old 12th July 2010, 05:45 AM   #1
BenRayfield
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Cool I offer everyone the ability to do telepathy, a software design to make it happen

I've explained in technical detail how to build a software that will create a telepathy network between the people who use that software, using body-language (seen through webcam) as inputs and controlling the small delays in video (of the people you're doing video chat with) as outputs, and how to create a "Telepathy API" software to access, read, and write it statistically.

Its explained in my post:
http://spacecollective.org/GabrielSh...11/comment6054
in this thread:
http://spacecollective.org/GabrielSh...the-Social-API

If anyone wants to build it, they can use it to do telepathy between probably any 2 people who use the software for long enough (if theres enough people using the software, maybe 10 would be needed?). You want what most people call magic? There it is. Build it and do what you want. But I don't believe in magic. Its all physics and logic. It can be explained and calculated, and thats exactly what the software would do if you built it. I have more important things to build right now.

To James Randi, ignoring your skepticism for now, if theoretically you could do telepathy (an ability created by the software, or whatever other way), would you want to, just to learn more about how the universe works? Thats why I chose to learn it 8 years ago, and it took lots of practice, and I still am not good at it, but can beat random odds a little. Its good to be skeptical, but some people take it too far. Better that than to have faith/assumptions. Both are statistical errors.
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Old 12th July 2010, 05:48 AM   #2
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Also I'll quote my post in that thread:

I don't believe in magic. Its all physics and logic. But I do believe what I've had enough experience with to know some of how it works. I'm trying to do this in a logical and scientific way, using the highest quality statistics tools (bayesian network)...

This is about creating a better "social API", which means a way to create social-networking software in a more flexible and self-referencing way, to use the "social API" to define the next version of itself, and other improvements. That is a great idea, but if you want to skip a few steps and build the thing that will obsolete it (for some people who prefer telepathy over video/audio communication, some will choose not to), I'll explain below...

...how to create a Telepathy API,
which means a software that causes its users to read eachothers minds, to put thoughts into eachothers minds, and for the software to know when that is happening, in what ways, who is is being done between, and the statistics of what will probably happen in the next few seconds in that same system. Its a completely logical software interface.

QUOTE: "Junto: an Amplifier for the Power of Networks
Unlike Twitter, the live-video medium allows us the fullest range of expression of our innate communication abilities, including the critical layers of non-verbal communication, gesture, tone, facial-expression, etc."

Telepathy API:

Using that network of people doing video chat, with a software to interpret body-language (software interprets video to know how much you are smiling, which way your head is turned, and other body language as numbers between 0 and 1), all of that, for all people in the system, for all such body-language measurements, and a separate input for 2 seconds ago, for 1 second ago, for now, and a separate set of inputs from speed and current position (of each body-language input), connect all of that to 1 global bayesian-network (an intelligent statistics tool).

The body-language is the inputs to the bayesian-network.

The outputs of the bayesian network will be to delay the video between any 2 people by 1/10 of a second, or to not delay it, resulting in them seeing a 0.5 or 0.6 second delay in the video, which they will not notice except unconsciously. The bayesian network will choose to add that small delay or not many times per second and for each pair of people sharing video. It will have subtle effects, and we do not know who will be affected or how many seconds it will take, but the theory of the Telepathy API is it will affect people's body-language who are not sharing video and do not have any path of video on a chain of people that is short enough for the video to get there before the bayesian-network notices the far-apart people's body language changes together. That would be a telepathy effect. If there is a chain of people doing video chat then that can not be assumed to be telepathy because body-language can transfer across many people indirectly.

Here's the intelligent part that generates the telepathy effect: Bayesian networks are a statistics tool, and one of their main purposes is to figure out what is causing what else, how much it affects it, and what you could change (that the network is connected to) to cause any arbitrary thing (that the network is connected to). At that statistics task, it is far smarter than the smartest Human, and it will figure out who is influencing who else in ways other than seeing the video (and other parts of the chat). In a very logical way, the bayesian network will calculate whose video to delay by 1/10 of a second to cause who else to have the specific body-language that the Telepathy API is trying to make happen, but it does not work every time, just statistically more than you would expect by random actions, which is enough to make it work after a few minutes or an hour maybe. The most important part is to have the bayesian network choose some set of outputs and have it DESIGN EXPERIMENTS (change some of the inputs 1/2 second from now and see how the outputs change) to balance the chance of all expected outputs, like if there was a 2/3 chance some person would smile and 1/3 they would not, have the bayesian network try to balance that at 1/2 chance each as the result of somebody far from them in the network receiving video with a 1/10 second delay (or not delayed, depending on what the bayesian network thinks will have that effect). Do that many times in many ways at once in many combinations, and a telepathy network will form between those users of the software, and the Telepathy API will be the software that can access the telepathy network between the people using the software.

If anyone chooses to build this "Telepathy API", theoretically if it works (I think it will), then it could be used to create consciousness in the internet, flowing across its wires, independent of the people using it. Since we're close to creating Human level robots/softwares/technology, I would not want to leave out consciousness and be left with machines that don't really understand all parts of how we think. Most of how we think is already known by science, but there is this small influence.

Also, I think it would be really funny if we got James Randi to use this video chat system to win his own million dollar paranormal challenge.
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Old 12th July 2010, 05:50 AM   #3
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I read your description but I don't understand what exactly is being transmitted by "telepathy." Also, if you have not built this system, how do you know it works?
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Old 12th July 2010, 05:51 AM   #4
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http://spacecollective.org/GabrielSh...11/comment6054


from your link: "Since we're close to creating Human level robots/softwares/technology..."

How close is 'close'?
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Old 12th July 2010, 06:01 AM   #5
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How close? You can rent a robot for around $300k/year (I hear, not verified) that can walk up and down stairs, follow people, serve drinks, etc. I'm an artificial intelligence programmer and a mad-scientist, and I'm designing some software to do it as a hybrid mind of many people and many computers thinking kind of like 1 mind, but without any brain implants or other medical devices, just psychology software as a user-interface. Realtime generated music as output, and mouse movements as input. That will be the main user-interface. The root software is http://HumanAINet.com which I have divided into modules. You can also get all of those at http://sourceforge.net Its really not hard to beat Human intelligence when you start with thousands of Humans interacting through the internet. It becomes only a collective-intelligence problem. Theres lots of people working on similar softwares (without the hybrid human/AI parts, just AI), but theres lots of things that could get in our way. I'd say between 1 and 30 years.
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Old 12th July 2010, 06:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
I read your description but I don't understand what exactly is being transmitted by "telepathy." Also, if you have not built this system, how do you know it works?
Any information could be transmitted through telepathy. The software is only interested in body-language, which would be measured by normal code that interprets the webcam videos as they change. That's just to bootstrap the telepathy between the people using the software, and its to measure and influence it. API means "application programming interface". Its a "Telepathy API", if you build what I described.

How do I know it will work? I know bayesian-networks and telepathy well enough to predict what their combination would do. I learned how all the parts of my proposed system work, so I can know what it would do before building it.
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Old 12th July 2010, 06:09 AM   #7
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I know telepathy enough to know this won't work.
Why?
Telepathy would have to actually exist first.
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Old 12th July 2010, 06:11 AM   #8
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So don't call it telepathy. Call it generating quantum entanglement between brains by using intelligent statistics software to observe then balance certain chances in the whole system at once. You believe in physics, don't you?
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Old 12th July 2010, 06:14 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
Any information could be transmitted through telepathy. The software is only interested in body-language, which would be measured by normal code that interprets the webcam videos as they change. That's just to bootstrap the telepathy between the people using the software, and its to measure and influence it. API means "application programming interface". Its a "Telepathy API", if you build what I described.
Ok, let me see if I got this straight. Somebody builds this system, then two people sit in front of webcams, in different rooms, and they can trasnmit any information they want telepathically? And you are not building this system and winning a million dollars because?

Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
How do I know it will work? I know bayesian-networks and telepathy well enough to predict what their combination would do. I learned how all the parts of my proposed system work, so I can know what it would do before building it.
Oh I see. So telepathy can exist without this system. You are not having this tested because?
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Old 12th July 2010, 06:19 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
I'm an artificial intelligence programmer and a mad-scientist...

Mad? Check.

Scientist? Not so much.
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Old 12th July 2010, 06:20 AM   #11
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Wait, are we talking about telepathy (direct mind-to-mind communication) or interpretation of body language, verbal tone, etc? The latter is not telepathy.
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Old 12th July 2010, 06:20 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
So don't call it telepathy. Call it generating quantum entanglement between brains by using intelligent statistics software to observe then balance certain chances in the whole system at once. You believe in physics, don't you?
Can I call it fanciful delusions of grandeur instead?
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Old 12th July 2010, 06:59 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
So don't call it telepathy. Call it generating quantum entanglement between brains by using intelligent statistics software to observe then balance certain chances in the whole system at once. You believe in physics, don't you?

Yes, but I don't believe in entanglement other than on the quantum scale.
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Old 12th July 2010, 07:00 AM   #14
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What?....what?
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Old 12th July 2010, 07:27 AM   #15
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Its not telepathy if any cameras or microphones are involved. That's just reading body language.

If it were telepathy, there would be no cameras, no mics, no text boxes, and you'd be able to tell me exactly what I look like, what I'm wearing, and what I am thinking right now.

Actually, I predict that many of the people reading this know EXACTLY what I'm thinking right now...
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Old 12th July 2010, 07:29 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by GregInAustin View Post
Its not telepathy if any cameras or microphones are involved. That's just reading body language.

If it were telepathy, there would be no cameras, no mics, no text boxes, and you'd be able to tell me exactly what I look like, what I'm wearing, and what I am thinking right now.

Actually, I predict that many of the people reading this know EXACTLY what I'm thinking right now...
Well he did say any information could br transmitted. So if by just staring at you I could figure out the name of your parents for instance, that would be interesting. But of course, that ain't happening with this (or any other) setup.
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Old 12th July 2010, 08:03 AM   #17
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Just to humour the (obviously delusional / naive) OP -

What you are talking about is not telepathy, its non-verbal visual communication.

You are suggesting that someone's body language can be recognised by a webcam and software (check, very boring (often inaccurate) but unremarkable tech here)
What I don't understand is what you are suggesting when you talk about when you describe how that recorded information is transmitted to the other person - something to do with delaying frames? How does their brain turn that back into the original information?

I think your main problems are these:
1) Even if it works, its not telepathy
2) No software can reliably turn recorded body language into useful information in a different format
3) Its hard, or even impossible, to accurately control body language
4) Body language is not consistant with intended conveyed meaning.
5) Your method of 'receiving' the information is gobbledy gook.
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Old 12th July 2010, 08:14 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
To James Randi, ignoring your skepticism for now, if theoretically you could do telepathy (an ability created by the software, or whatever other way), would you want to, just to learn more about how the universe works? Thats why I chose to learn it 8 years ago, and it took lots of practice, and I still am not good at it, but can beat random odds a little. Its good to be skeptical, but some people take it too far. Better that than to have faith/assumptions. Both are statistical errors.
I don't understand. did you learn telepathy eight years ago?
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Old 12th July 2010, 08:17 AM   #19
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To the OP, if he's willing to answer questions:

Quote:
To James Randi, ignoring your skepticism for now, if theoretically you could do telepathy (an ability created by the software, or whatever other way), would you want to, just to learn more about how the universe works?
How would your machine teach more about how the universe works? It sounds like a sophisticated parlor trick, based on non-verbal cues. No great secrets of the universe will be uncovered because Bob squinted his eyes and crossed then quickly uncrossed his legs while he was trying to telepathically send the answer "My favorite colour is green."
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Old 12th July 2010, 08:30 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
If anyone wants to build it, they can use it to do telepathy between probably any 2 people who use the software for long enough.
Please explain more clearly how your software leads to telepathy, because I don't understand what you mean.
Quote:
I have more important things to build right now.
More important than building something which it appears only you understand and which could win you $1,000,000?
Quote:
To James Randi, ignoring your skepticism for now, if theoretically you could do telepathy, would you want to, just to learn more about how the universe works? ... Its good to be skeptical, but some people take it too far.
I strongly suspect you misunderstand what skepticism is.
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Old 12th July 2010, 08:47 AM   #21
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He doesn't even seem to understand what the forum is for, if he thinks this is the best place to ask James Randi questions.
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Old 12th July 2010, 09:05 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by GregInAustin View Post
Actually, I predict that many of the people reading this know EXACTLY what I'm thinking right now...


It's working!!!




Welcome to the zoo, Greg.
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Old 12th July 2010, 09:36 AM   #23
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Having re-read the first couple of posts, I think the plan is;

Use software to analyse body language in a video webchat
Use that to apply a variable delay to the video feed
???
Telepathy!


Needs further explanation, to say the least.
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Old 12th July 2010, 09:49 AM   #24
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Wonder if the OP will attempt to use this over chat roulette? He'll be surprised to find the "Body Language" they use there.
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Old 12th July 2010, 09:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by GregInAustin View Post
Its not telepathy if any cameras or microphones are involved. That's just reading body language.

If it were telepathy, there would be no cameras, no mics, no text boxes, and you'd be able to tell me exactly what I look like, what I'm wearing, and what I am thinking right now.

Actually, I predict that many of the people reading this know EXACTLY what I'm thinking right now...
.
And for some of the more aggravating posters on some threads, the number of fingers being held up.
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Old 12th July 2010, 10:09 AM   #26
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I can cause quantum entanglement by measuring the subtle changes in larynx, lungs, lips and tongue and conveying a person's thoughts over an electrical or fiber network.

---A. G. Bell
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Old 12th July 2010, 10:20 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
I can cause quantum entanglement by measuring the subtle changes in larynx, lungs, lips and tongue and conveying a person's thoughts over an electrical or fiber network.

---A. G. Bell


I wonder if there's an app for that.
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Old 12th July 2010, 10:22 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
I wonder if there's an app for that.
Would it be limited to iPhone, or could I get it for my Samsung Reclaim too?
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Old 14th July 2010, 06:57 AM   #29
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If I go phone shopping and certain Google powered phones had an option to have the app pre-installed, but I didn't want the app, could I be told "Those aren't the Droids you're looking for"?

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Old 14th July 2010, 07:05 PM   #30
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How I expect it to work

Many of you think I intend the webcams and body-language to be a substitute for real telepathy, but thats not what its for, and the bayesian-network will be programmed to ignore all such inputs when detecting and influencing the telepathy.

The webcams and body-language and small delays in webcam videos are only the inputs and outputs between certain people and certain other people, and those connections will be isolated from any telepathy tests and experiments.

There has to be some inputs and some outputs that the computers have access to, so please stop assuming that I'm planning to call the inputs and outputs telepathy. I'm not. As bayesian-networks have been used for many times in many softwares, the 1 bayesian-network for the whole software globally will detect what causes what else, and that includes the ability to isolate influences that could not have been caused by webcams, body-language (inputs), or delays in video speed (outputs).

The bayesian-network can adjust those isolated cause/effect combinations and amplify them on the network all at once for an exponentially increasing statistical influence between people's brains who have no webcam connection to eachother, and that will be telepathy.

Last edited by BenRayfield; 14th July 2010 at 07:14 PM. Reason: caused instead of causes
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Old 14th July 2010, 07:11 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
I'm an artificial intelligence programmer and a mad-scientist,.
I like you already
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Old 14th July 2010, 07:16 PM   #32
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New drinking game!

Bayesian Blotto... throw back a shot whenever Ben throws out a Bayesian.

So... chug 16 shots to get caught up and we'll go from there.
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Old 15th July 2010, 04:01 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
Many of you think I intend the webcams and body-language to be a substitute for real telepathy, but thats not what its for, and the bayesian-network will be programmed to ignore all such inputs when detecting and influencing the telepathy.

The webcams and body-language and small delays in webcam videos are only the inputs and outputs between certain people and certain other people, and those connections will be isolated from any telepathy tests and experiments.

There has to be some inputs and some outputs that the computers have access to, so please stop assuming that I'm planning to call the inputs and outputs telepathy. I'm not. As bayesian-networks have been used for many times in many softwares, the 1 bayesian-network for the whole software globally will detect what causes what else, and that includes the ability to isolate influences that could not have been caused by webcams, body-language (inputs), or delays in video speed (outputs).

The bayesian-network can adjust those isolated cause/effect combinations and amplify them on the network all at once for an exponentially increasing statistical influence between people's brains who have no webcam connection to eachother, and that will be telepathy.
For a post titled "How I expect it to work" there is not a lot of hows in there. It's all vague speculation.
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Old 15th July 2010, 04:19 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
(...)

To James Randi, ignoring your skepticism for now, if theoretically you could do telepathy (an ability created by the software, or whatever other way), would you want to, just to learn more about how the universe works? Thats why I chose to learn it 8 years ago, and it took lots of practice, and I still am not good at it, but can beat random odds a little. Its good to be skeptical, but some people take it too far. Better that than to have faith/assumptions. Both are statistical errors.
Just for fun... Let's not ignore James Randi's skepticism for a second. You wouldn't be interested in a cool million dollars, would you? Or are you already making millions stopping by the occasional casino to "beat random odds" there?
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Old 15th July 2010, 07:04 AM   #35
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So Ben, can you run us through a typical use-case?

Let's say someone builds this, and gets it working. Suppose there are, say, five people running the software that are online and all have each other's social networking site pages/addresses/URLs, or whatever is needed. What do those individuals do to experience this telepathy? What would they say or see or type? what do they experience, for example?

How would this stuff actually be used initially? Give us a story-board example.
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Old 15th July 2010, 07:21 AM   #36
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
I wonder if there's an app for that.
There is, but if you're on an iPhone 4 it won't work if you're holding it!
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Old 15th July 2010, 12:30 PM   #37
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Giggywig
Quote:
For a post titled "How I expect it to work" there is not a lot of hows in there. It's all vague speculation.
M-theory http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_%28M-Theory%29 is the M-dimensional version of string-theory http://wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

I don't know how well those physics models fit what I'm trying to do here, but they appear to be the closest idea to it. Think of each particle/wave/whatever-it-is as a string, and combinations of them as a "membrane" (a combination of strings, 1 for each vibrating dimension), where dimensions are not restricted to flat space and time but can go any directions in spacetime, and many directions and locations at once in the same way Schrodinger's Cat http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrodingers_cat can be alive and dead at the same time.

This "Telepathy API" software will be an experiment in multiverse physics. The theory of multiverse physics it is most similar to is http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse...imate_Ensemble and that can be written simpler as "The Kolmogorov-Complexity of the universe is 0". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity

This telepathy software will use the inputs and outputs (described above) to statistically influence each user's brain, which will statistically influence how an exponential number of M-Branes ( M-theory http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_%28M-Theory%29 ) align with eachother, where most of those M-Branes (membranes in physics) are in quantum superposition http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_superposition and start to influence the brains of the users when they align more with eachother and therefore start to have consistent patterns of cause and effect between brains, and that is telepathy.

Is that specific enough? You said it was vague speculation. I have reasons for my mad-scientist theories, but if people do not know enough about the science and logic and software involved, then they think its vague.

Ririon
Quote:
Just for fun... Let's not ignore James Randi's skepticism for a second. You wouldn't be interested in a cool million dollars, would you? Or are you already making millions stopping by the occasional casino to "beat random odds" there?
People who win at casinos probably have as much skill at telepathy as me, which is just a little. They may not know it, but I think everyone has some small amount of it, and those who win more at gambling are more likely to have more of it. If I had this telepathy software working now, it would not be hard for any user of it to win at casinos or to win James Randi's million dollar paranormal challenge, but after that is proven, there are much more important things to do than get a million dollars. For example, with a million people highly skilled in telepathy, we could expose all corrupt politicians (by knowing where to look, not by having people believe us based on telepathy) and solve huge global problems caused by them. A million dollars is small compared to that.

dlorde
Quote:
So Ben, can you run us through a typical use-case?

Let's say someone builds this, and gets it working. Suppose there are, say, five people running the software that are online and all have each other's social networking site pages/addresses/URLs, or whatever is needed. What do those individuals do to experience this telepathy? What would they say or see or type? what do they experience, for example?

How would this stuff actually be used initially? Give us a story-board example.
Its mostly non-interactive. Just look at the screen and the webcam, do what you would normally do in a video chatroom, and it will just happen. The video chat has 2 purposes: (1) A distraction from how it really works so people act more normally, and (2) the "control group" experiments to compare the real telepathy to, and to use it to do calculus derivatives between.

THE USE CASE: Use the video-chat. Talk to whoever you want however you want about whatever you want. Turn off your computer. Say whatever you want to a few people not on the computer. They say "I was about to say that. How did you know?" This effect will become stronger as you use the program more, so don't expect it to work immediately.

Last edited by BenRayfield; 15th July 2010 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 15th July 2010, 12:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
Giggywig

M-theory http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_%28M-Theory%29 is the M-dimensional version of string-theory http://wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

I don't know how well those physics models fit what I'm trying to do here, but they appear to be the closest idea to it. Think of each particle/wave/whatever-it-is as a string, and combinations of them as a "membrane" (a combination of strings, 1 for each vibrating dimension), where dimensions are not restricted to flat space and time but can go any directions in spacetime, and many directions and locations at once in the same way Schrodinger's Cat http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrodingers_cat can be alive and dead at the same time.

This "Telepathy API" software will be an experiment in multiverse physics. The theory of multiverse physics it is most similar to is http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse...imate_Ensemble and that can be written simpler as "The Kolmogorov-Complexity of the universe is 0". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity

This telepathy software will use the inputs and outputs (described above) to statistically influence each user's brain, which will statistically influence how an exponential number of M-Branes ( M-theory http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_%28M-Theory%29 ) align with eachother, where most of those M-Branes (membranes in physics) are in quantum superposition http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_superposition and start to influence the brains of the users when they align more with eachother and therefore start to have consistent patterns of cause and effect between brains, and that is telepathy.

Is that specific enough? You said it was vague speculation. I have reasons for my mad-scientist theories, but if people do not know enough about the science and logic and software involved, then they think its vague.

Ririon

People who win at casinos probably have as much skill at telepathy as me, which is just a little. They may not know it, but I think everyone has some small amount of it, and those who win more at gambling are more likely to have more of it. If I had this telepathy software working now, it would not be hard for any user of it to win at casinos or to win James Randi's million dollar paranormal challenge, but after that is proven, there are much more important things to do than get a million dollars. For example, with a million people highly skilled in telepathy, we could expose all corrupt politicians (by knowing where to look, not by having people believe us based on telepathy) and solve huge global problems caused by them. A million dollars is small compared to that.

dlorde

Its mostly non-interactive. Just look at the screen and the webcam, do what you would normally do in a video chatroom, and it will just happen. The video chat has 2 purposes: (1) A distraction from how it really works so people act more normally, and (2) the "control group" experiments to compare the real telepathy to, and to use it to do calculus derivatives between.

THE USE CASE: Use the video-chat. Talk to whoever you want however you want about whatever you want. Turn off your computer. Say whatever you want to a few people not on the computer. They say "I was about to say that. How did you know?" This effect will become stronger as you use the program more, so don't expect it to work immediately.
I can say as someone that has no problem with understanding science, this is vague flim flammery at its finest. Your entire post, especially the " THE USE CASE" bit, is obviously designed to obfuscate and confuse versus inform and is set up with multiple "outs" if it does not work.

Please explain to me, if your legitimate, why you are displaying all the signs of a con man, or someone having a laugh.
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Old 15th July 2010, 12:47 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by BenRayfield View Post
So don't call it telepathy. Call it generating quantum entanglement between brains by using intelligent statistics software to observe then balance certain chances in the whole system at once. You believe in physics, don't you?
I call horse hocky.
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Old 15th July 2010, 12:53 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes View Post
If I go phone shopping and certain Google powered phones had an option to have the app pre-installed, but I didn't want the app, could I be told "Those aren't the Droids you're looking for"?

Ouch.
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