The evil on the political right and left is not equally egregious at the moment

Skeptic Ginger

Nasty Woman
Skeptic Ginger
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Feb 14, 2005
Messages
96,955
Bob Klase said:
So to sum it up: politicians spin things in their favor, political parties lie and misrepresent facts to get elected, and no matter how stupid an idea is at least of the political parties will have no shortage of members who are stupid enough to accept it.
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And the right wing slime machine is no different than the left? :rolleyes:

McCarthy was just one of the flock. They all do it.

Honest political points are the same as dishonest political points because after all, if you have a political point of view, you must be an unethical lying promoter of that view.


This 'criticize the sides equally' attitude is not consistent with the facts and reminds me of the news media treating junk science on par with good science because they feel the need to report both sides of every issue. When the media shows thousands of protesters, they give equal time to the dozen or less counter-protesters on the corner at the event.
 
Bob Klase said:
So to sum it up: politicians spin things in their favor, political parties lie and misrepresent facts to get elected, and no matter how stupid an idea is at least of the political parties will have no shortage of members who are stupid enough to accept it.
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Obviously the left has its problems, but can you think of anything promoted by the left in recent times that is anywhere as false and malicious as this Sherrod issue, the ACORN smearing, calling Van Jones a "convicted felon," birtherism, death panels, the "New Black Panthers," Climategate, and that's without going back to the Clinton years. You do realize that there were 2 weeks of Congressional hearings over who was on the Clinton Christmas list, don't you?

I don't want to pretend like one side is good and the other is bad, but clearly one side is waaaaay worse. The most offensive BS on the left is alt-med, anti-vaxx stuff, but save the Huffington Post, no body is promoting that crap like the right funnels its BS from Drudge through Fox.
 
dudalb said:
Yeah, and I have a feeling it has been like this going back to Ancient Greece.
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I don't want to sidetrack this thread, because it is another important topic the news media is just discovering. But you have not addressed the suggested problem with your position that, "they all do it". That problem is the difference in unethical means and degree of dishonesty that exists in the CURRENT political atmosphere in the US.

The two sides are not currently equally unethically bashing each other. The Democratic Party has not embraced left wing whack-jobs or enlisted their enthusiasm on the political battlefront.

It is not equally appalling on both sides. Are you suggesting it is? Because if you are then let's start a thread on that and let's see your evidence.
 
This has come up in numerous threads. When the outrageous actions of a dishonest right wing is brought up, some people post that they believe the egregious behavior is equal on both sides. Some of us on the left don't see it that way.

There are plenty of examples of unethical campaigning on the right. The latest is a slew of fake outrage stories that Fox news has been promoting about evil minorities. The fact the right embraces the most radical elements of the Tea Party is a very public affair.

Yes, the left has MSNBC, but where are the falsified stories that the Democratic Party embraces? Where is the left courting the radical left extremists? Where is the left refusing to condemn anyone who is akin to spewing the vile rhetoric of Limbaugh only with a left wing slant? The left wing radio nut jobs are not part of the left wing mainstream.

I'm asking for current evidence please.
 
TraneWreck said:
Obviously the left has its problems, but can you think of anything promoted by the left in recent times that is anywhere as false and malicious as this Sherrod issue, the ACORN smearing, calling Van Jones a "convicted felon," birtherism, death panels, the "New Black Panthers," Climategate, and that's without going back to the Clinton years. You do realize that there were 2 weeks of Congressional hearings over who was on the Clinton Christmas list, don't you?

I don't want to pretend like one side is good and the other is bad, but clearly one side is waaaaay worse. The most offensive BS on the left is alt-med, anti-vaxx stuff, but save the Huffington Post, no body is promoting that crap like the right funnels its BS from Drudge through Fox.
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I guess we do need a thread on this and let this one stay with the Department of Agriculture problems the Sherrod case is bringing to the forefront.

So I started a thread to discuss the issue.
 
TraneWreck said:
Obviously the left has its problems, but can you think of anything promoted by the left in recent times that is anywhere as false and malicious as this Sherrod issue, the ACORN smearing, calling Van Jones a "convicted felon," birtherism, death panels, the "New Black Panthers," Climategate, and that's without going back to the Clinton years. You do realize that there were 2 weeks of Congressional hearings over who was on the Clinton Christmas list, don't you?

I don't want to pretend like one side is good and the other is bad, but clearly one side is waaaaay worse. The most offensive BS on the left is alt-med, anti-vaxx stuff, but save the Huffington Post, no body is promoting that crap like the right funnels its BS from Drudge through Fox.
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Oh, I'd love to see this fight happen. BAC and Cicero on one side, Skeptic Ginger and leftysarge on the other.
 
Thank you!

I'm so tried of the arguement that they are just as bad as each other.

How? Why? What measurement do we use?

are leftyies 51.6% bad and right wing 48.4% ?

Why are they exactly the same?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Yes, the left has MSNBC... <snip>
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I question this. MSNBC might have Maddow and Olberman on for two hours in the evening (four if you count the repeats), but it also has three hours a day of former GOP congressman Joe Scarborough. Yeah, it's more liberal than Fox, but who isn't?
 
Random said:
I question this. MSNBC might have Maddow and Olberman on for two hours in the evening (four if you count the repeats), but it also has three hours a day of former GOP congressman Joe Scarborough. Yeah, it's more liberal than Fox, but who isn't?
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Well, since it was my derail that motivated this thread, I'll repost the challenge here:

Can you think of anything promoted by the left in recent times that is anywhere as false and malicious as this Sherrod issue, the ACORN smearing, calling Van Jones a "convicted felon," birtherism, death panels, the "New Black Panthers," Climategate (and global warming denial in general), creationism...and that's without going back to the Clinton years. You do realize that there were 2 weeks of Congressional hearings over who was on the Clinton Christmas list, don't you?

This issue is not one of partisanship. There's nothing wrong with being partisan. Most people on this forum are proud, aggressive partisans in favor of science, skepticism and rationality. If we choose to define the science v. woo as a binary system like we do with politics, then clearly no one here would argue for "balance."

This is an issue of integrity, process, and facts. Anyone seeking to establish an equivalence between Fox and MSNBC (or any other politically polar distinction) needs to answer the challenge above. Find something Maddow or Olbermann pushed that was as absurd as the steady stream of BS coming from Fox, the teabaggers, and the Republicans.

I'm betting that all we'll hear about is some nonsense from Al Sharpton or generally false claims.
 
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TraneWreck said:
Can you think of anything promoted by the left in recent times that is anywhere as false and malicious as this Sherrod issue, the ACORN smearing, calling Van Jones a "convicted felon," birtherism, death panels, the "New Black Panthers," Climategate (and global warming denial in general), creationism...and that's without going back to the Clinton years. You do realize that there were 2 weeks of Congressional hearings over who was on the Clinton Christmas list, don't you?
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Maddow's characterization of AZ SB1070 would be a good start
 
Dan Rather's ridiculous Texas Air National Guard story on Bush? RFK Jr's silly claim that Bush stole Ohio in 2004? The NY Times attempt to smear John McCain with their absurd claim that he had an affair with some lobbyist?

What Skeptic Ginger really means is that she doesn't like it when it's her ox being gored.
 
Random said:
I question this. MSNBC might have Maddow and Olberman on for two hours in the evening (four if you count the repeats), but it also has three hours a day of former GOP congressman Joe Scarborough. Yeah, it's more liberal than Fox, but who isn't?
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I was just trying to head off the claim Fox and MSNBC are equivalent. Of course I don't think they are.

I've had this same discussion before when the right leaners on the board tried to compare FAIR (a right wing propaganda site masquerading as a media watch dog) to Media Matters. MSNBC and Media Matters, regardless of the choice of stories to cover, do so with a high degree of honesty. FAIR and Fox, both, have no commitment to truth, only to persuasion.
 
TraneWreck said:
Well, since it was my derail that motivated this thread, I'll repost the challenge here:
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Actually it was dudalb's which started in the Sherrod thread, but yours did trigger the final motivation. ;)

TraneWreck said:
Can you think of anything promoted by the left in recent times that is anywhere as false and malicious as this Sherrod issue, the ACORN smearing, calling Van Jones a "convicted felon," birtherism, death panels, the "New Black Panthers," Climategate (and global warming denial in general), creationism...and that's without going back to the Clinton years. You do realize that there were 2 weeks of Congressional hearings over who was on the Clinton Christmas list, don't you?

This issue is not one of partisanship. There's nothing wrong with being partisan. Most people on this forum are proud, aggressive partisans in favor of science, skepticism and rationality. If we choose to define the science v. woo as a binary system like we do with politics, then clearly no one here would argue for "balance."

This is an issue of integrity, process, and facts. Anyone seeking to establish an equivalence between Fox and MSNBC (or any other politically polar distinction) needs to answer the challenge above. Find something Maddow or Olbermann pushed that was as absurd as the steady stream of BS coming from Fox, the teabaggers, and the Republicans.

I'm betting that all we'll hear about is some nonsense from Al Sharpton or generally false claims.
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Wow, you are bringing back a lot of memories I had forgotten about. It really is that bad, isn't it.
 
applecorped said:
You're worse then meeeeeee!!!!!!:crowded:
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It serves you well to down play the problem. But I would ask you to put the politics aside for a minute and remember you are posting in a forum of an organization that promotes critical thinking and works against the tactics of anyone, media or church, psychic peddler or Creationist, that pushes false messages for personal gain.

The issue here is not legitimate political differences. The issue is Fox and the right wing consciously promoting false beliefs, promoting lies, and distortions. And on that note, yes, the current right wing mainstream in the US is worse, by far, than the left.
 
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SezMe said:
No, I did not. Or maybe it's better said that I don't remember. Is there any evidence on-line?
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Google brings up quite a bit about it:

Back in the mid-1990s, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, aggressively delving into alleged misconduct by the Clinton administration, logged 140 hours of sworn testimony into whether former president Bill Clinton had used the White House Christmas card list to identify potential Democratic donors.
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http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w...05/11/20/congress_reduces_its_oversight_role/
 
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