Navy Seal vs. Israeli commando

Navy Seal vs. Israeli commando

  • Navy Seal

    Votes: 10 22.7%

  • Israeli commando

    Votes: 10 22.7%

  • Shemp

    Votes: 24 54.5%
  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .

applecorped

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applecorped
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It will be decided on Deadliest Warrior Tuesday night at 10pm est.


Who do you think will win?
 
Israeli commando hands down.


The Navy Seals are.....not that wonderful for a modern fighting force. The Israeli Commandos are among the best soldiers in the world.
 
Considering the level of training each group receives, it would come down to the individual.

Those of us who have some knowledge of things martial seem to be of the opinion that this "deadliest warrior" series is just plain silly and often misinformed.
 
Bikewer said:
Considering the level of training each group receives, it would come down to the individual.

Those of us who have some knowledge of things martial seem to be of the opinion that this "deadliest warrior" series is just plain silly and often misinformed.
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I'm not sure about martial arts, but it seems to me the show assigns the weapons strength points based more on coolness than effectiveness.

Given that special ops very rarely have anything that could be considered 'standard issue for special ops', I'm wondering how they're going to pick each side's weapons for this episode. SEALs won't be using Yank equipment on a real op, and I imagine the Israelis wouldn't use anything made in Israel either.
 
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Checkmite said:
I'm not sure about martial arts, but it seems to me the show assigns the weapons strength points based more on coolness than effectiveness.
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I don't know. They typically do measure what they think would be kill shots versus non-kill shots, relative damage, ability to penetrate armor, etc. It is, obviously, rather dependent on the skill of the person using the weapon on the show, but they do seem to measure some sense of effectiveness.

When you set aside the "warrior vs. warrior" setting they insert, the show is pretty much just comparing the effectiveness of various historical weapons, which I think is kind of neat. Everything else is just window dressing, really.

Obviously, in real life, combat is much more than the sum of weapons capabilities.
 
Roadside bomb.

A breath of wind, a Border bullet's flight,
A draught of water, or a horse's fright–
The droning of the fat Sheristadar
Ceases, the punkah stops, and falls the night
 
The show's aim is to appeal the the majority of the masses. Obviously the full combat capacity of a particular warrior can't be measured because of too many un-assessed variables. The shows still really fun to watch, well at least to me. :D.

The match-up is not particularly the greatest. It would be much better if the SEALS were pitted against a different, more similar tactical style group like SAS.
Since the show is based on weaponry, I'll guess the SEALS will win.
 
Compared to third world 12 year olds with slingshots and AKs they can't clear when they jam yet alone having any training or real practice using, Isreali commandos are fierce! Up against real world professional soldiers, yet alone elite, well-trained and equipped forces, ...laughably not even close.
 
If the battle is an amphibious landing, I bet the seals win. There ARE differences in the types of training different soldiers get.

As fierce as Kamehameha's troops were in the jungles of Hawaii, they'd get pwnt quite handily fighting in the Swiss Alps with the locals
 
pipelineaudio said:
If the battle is an amphibious landing, I bet the seals win. There ARE differences in the types of training different soldiers get.
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Yeah, the show isn't that sophisticated. They really just compare the effectiveness of each side's main weapons and draw a conclusion that way. It's basically a simulation of, if you took a Navy Seal and an Israeli Commando, put them in a large field, and had a round of combat with their respective long-rang, medium-range, and close-quarters weapons.

It's not really a combat simulation, even though they show it that way -- it's more like an equipment comparison.
 
TShaitanaku said:
Compared to third world 12 year olds with slingshots and AKs they can't clear when they jam yet alone having any training or real practice using, Isreali commandos are fierce! Up against real world professional soldiers, yet alone elite, well-trained and equipped forces, ...laughably not even close.
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They did pretty good at Entebbe, the hostage situation um in Germany? and you won't ever know where else. They probably do more active assignments than any other elite force in the world- but we'll never know for sure.

And the same goes for the Seals. We'll never know just how sharp the pointy end is, don't expect a "reality" show to tell us.
 
Quad4_72 said:
What is this based on?
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They're going to give a team of SEALs and team of IDF commandos a 9mm pistol with 15 rounds of ammo and a knife and lock them in a gymnasium, whoever comes out alive wins.
 
Deadliest Warrior is based purely on firepower which allowed the LAPD SWAT team to defeat GSG9:rolleyes:
It's dumb, it's on Spike TV.
 
casebro said:
They did pretty good at Entebbe, the hostage situation um in Germany?
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Supports my statement

Entebbe opponents = 8 palestinian pissants and a few tens Ugandan thugs vs 100 Israeli "commandoes." no wonder they wear superman capes, without them no one would know they were elite combat forces!

German hostage "situation"?(presumably referring to the Munich Massacre in '72) not sure exactly what you think happened there, but perhaps you should look that up before we talk about it.


And the same goes for the Seals. We'll never know just how sharp the pointy end is, don't expect a "reality" show to tell us.
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Only an idiot would think otherwise,...with regards to TV that is, SEALs (It is an acronym, they aren't cute fuzzy sea cats), have actual combat records against other elite, well-trained and well-equipped combat forces.

Any jackboot with a couple months training and decent equipment can look like sgt. Rock when the majority of their activities revolve around confronting half-starved, poorly trained and equipped teenage gangbanger wannabes.

Seriously, I'm sure there are probably some fine examples of well-trained and knowledgable commandoes in the IDF, but as a fighting force, overall, we have to judge the capability of the overall troop in the light of the enemies they regularly face and defeat. IMO, a much more relevent and accurate comparison would probably be between the average LA or NY SWAT team member and an Israeli commando (and my money would be on the home team - primarily because many of the larger metropolitan rapid response/SWAT team members are ex-US-military, who are, without any question, among the very best trained professional soldiers on the planet).

SEALs, that's a whole other universe of combat training, skill and experience.
(not saying this to swell the heads of any glorified swabbies, it is just a simple fact)
 
Aren't there more seals than Israeli commandos simply because the United States is a bigger nation than Israel? Israel is about the size of a smallish American state abet surrounded by folk who don't like her a whole lot.
 
Nosi said:
Aren't there more seals than Israeli commandos simply because the United States is a bigger nation than Israel? Israel is about the size of a smallish American state abet surrounded by folk who don't like her a whole lot.
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Surrounded more by allies than enemies. The majority of Israel is bordered by Egypt and Jordan.
 
By way of contrast, try to catch episodes of "Warrior" with Terry Schappert. Ran on the History channel a couple of seasons ago, then they apparently dropped it.

Very well done, each episode profiled the historic group of warriors, showed not only the weapons but the training methods used.
The Zulu segment was particularly good.
 
If Navy Seals are that good, why did they let Charlie Sheen play on in a film, hmmmm? :confused:
 
Quad4_72 said:
What is this based on?
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Relative success of their campaigns.

I admit I may have been understating the ability and success of the SEALs, but I would consider them to be maybe third in the world in terms of commando forces (by ability, obviously) behind the SAS/SBS and the Israeli's in third. The fact that the Israeli commandos are so spectacularly efficient (example) is what puts me to place them top.

Of course, individuals in all forces vary to some degree, so the best SEAL may well be the best special forces soldier in the world. I suppose it depends on what you want them to do. One thing I will give the SEALs though, they were the best fighting force in the Vietnam War. They practically single handedly won that war (in terms of military success, the US and allies were wiping the floor with the NVA) and quite possibly would have contributed greatly to a possible eventual victory had they not been pulled out.
 
Nosi said:
Aren't there more seals than Israeli commandos simply because the United States is a bigger nation than Israel? Israel is about the size of a smallish American state abet surrounded by folk who don't like her a whole lot.
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Who has said anything about the size of the force?

Actually, I believe there are more IDF commandoes than there are SEALs, But I guess a lot of this depends upon how you define IDF Commandoes. As I've been using the term, I'm referring to the more generic "Commando" training as were/are typically exemplified by the Palsar and now, Gadsar (basically recce units). Which largely involves a bit of extra training and some specialized weaponry. If the focus of the term is toward some of the more specialized task/mission groups, basically the equivilant of the IDF special forces units (i.e. the various Sayeret units) then I'm not sure that this applies, of course neither do many of the other comments I've made which are directed more at the most typical example of the term "Israeli/IDF commando," who is basically a normal IDF line trooper with a few weeks extra training and a broader kit selection.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Relative success of their campaigns.

I admit I may have been understating the ability and success of the SEALs, but I would consider them to be maybe third in the world in terms of commando forces (by ability, obviously) behind the SAS/SBS and the Israeli's in third. The fact that the Israeli commandos are so spectacularly efficient (example) is what puts me to place them top.

Of course, individuals in all forces vary to some degree, so the best SEAL may well be the best special forces soldier in the world. I suppose it depends on what you want them to do. One thing I will give the SEALs though, they were the best fighting force in the Vietnam War. They practically single handedly won that war (in terms of military success, the US and allies were wiping the floor with the NVA) and quite possibly would have contributed greatly to a possible eventual victory had they not been pulled out.
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I think my main point is you can't really measure who is better. I could cite you a bunch of missions that the SEALs pulled off that were pretty amazing as well. I think it is probably safe to say that most special forces groups are pretty efficient at their jobs and you can't really put one as hands down better than the other.
 
WildCat said:
They're going to give a team of SEALs and team of IDF commandos a 9mm pistol with 15 rounds of ammo and a knife and lock them in a gymnasium, whoever comes out alive wins.
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Seems reasonable. I would like to get in on this, except I get to use my tank :D
 
They don't take mission profiles or specialty training into consideration. They just choose what weapons would look cool and pit them 1 on 1 or 6 on 6.
 
Quad4_72 said:
I think my main point is you can't really measure who is better. I could cite you a bunch of missions that the SEALs pulled off that were pretty amazing as well. I think it is probably safe to say that most special forces groups are pretty efficient at their jobs and you can't really put one as hands down better than the other.
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Which is fair enough. I was only expressing my opinion anyway. :)
 
Bikewer said:
Considering the level of training each group receives, it would come down to the individual.

Those of us who have some knowledge of things martial seem to be of the opinion that this "deadliest warrior" series is just plain silly and often misinformed.
Click to expand...


Seen a couple of episodes and you're right. Eye-rolling material.
 
All of the high level counter-terrorist and special forces in the world regularly train together. They work out of the same playbook. Obviously, tactics, equipment, and trainin vary from time to time, but you are pitting the best against the best here.

In a real contest between Naval Special Warfare Operators and the Sayaret Matkal, what each guy had for breakfast in the morning could make the difference. These guys are all high-speed, low-drag, ass kickers.

I can't imagine a situation where the Sayeret and the SEALs would be squaring off against each other...so it makes about as much sense as any of the other matchups they've made. Like an Apache against a gladiator for example.
 
In reality, the result should end in a draw.
There are more factors to be an ultimate warrior then only having the best, biggest, advanced and coolest weapon in the universe.
Navy seals might have some good stuff and have been trained in a special way, etc etc.. But when it comes down to it, the best warrior or fighter would be the person who has the best skills and has the necessary experience in combat. A group cannot be defined by one man, nor can one man define an entire group.

I quite like the show for the few historical details they give away but that would be about it. Inaccuracies during "the fights" would include the weather and place in which is being fought, the place and envirronement the warrior/fighter is used to, known and dressed for, use of materials and background culture. All factors which should be taken in consideration.

If the special forces were that special and the soldiers the best in the world as always has been claimed, then I am still wondering the 10-year old beef in the middle-east is about and the losing in Vietnam...
 
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Sun Tzu shot a flaming arrow at Vlad the Impaler (who, true to form, ended up impaling Tzu).

That is all kinds of awesomeness.
 
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