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Tags disarmament , publication 7277 , state department

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Old 16th August 2010, 06:49 AM   #1
Ladewig
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One World Gov't; seizing guns; and State Dept. publication 7277

I see the one of the purposes of the Conspiracy sub-forum as debunking false interpretations of past events, quotes, and documents.

While researching the number of guns in the U.S.,1 I came across the claim that in 1961, the U.S. government actually announced its desire to remove all guns from the hands of Americans before turning the military over to the U.N.

The conspiracists are referring to Department of State Publication 7277 (Disarmament Series 5) Released September 1961. The entire text can be found on this semi-official government site (run by University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC)). The document is genuine, but should be taken in context. The U.S. and the Soviet Union were looking for a formal approach to disarmament talks. They finally agreed that the U.N. could be helpful in this respect. The state department wrote this U.N. proposal which was introduced to the U.N. Quite, obviously,as the negotiations progressed, neither side decided that this particular plan was going to meet their needs, so both sides backed away from it. Fortunately, however, the discussions from this U.N. proposal paved the way for nuclear weapon treaties in the next 20 years. The document does not (as some claim) carry the weight of law and was not a goal of any administration in the past 25 years.

The document does not specifically mention removing guns from the hands of Americans not in the military, but some might interpret the phrase "national arsenal" to include privately owned guns.


.................................................. .........
1) estimates with an identifiable, but not necessarily good methodology range from 192 to 283, estimates with no discernible methodology range from 150 to 370.
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Last edited by Ladewig; 16th August 2010 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 16th August 2010, 06:52 AM   #2
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Gee, peace is a bad thing, ain't it?

BTW, I own more guns than the Hezzbolah, so don't go there.
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Old 16th August 2010, 07:43 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
While researching the number of guns in the U.S.,1

1) estimates with an identifiable, but not necessarily good methodology range from 192 to 283, estimates with no discernible methodology range from 150 to 370.
I'm reasonably sure there are more guns than that in the US.
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Old 16th August 2010, 07:47 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Gee, peace is a bad thing, ain't it?

BTW, I own more guns than the Hezzbolah, so don't go there.
Don't go where? I just wanted to know how many guns were in the U.S. I had no intention of arguing in favor of or against any gun policies.
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Old 16th August 2010, 08:23 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I just wanted to know how many guns were in the U.S.
Does "a lot" not suffice as an answer?
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Old 16th August 2010, 12:33 PM   #6
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A major reason I quit the NRA despite my strong support for The Right of citizens to own a firearm is that they push conspiracy crap like this.
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Old 16th August 2010, 02:00 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Don't go where? I just wanted to know how many guns were in the U.S. I had no intention of arguing in favor of or against any gun policies.
Not you in particular, just bud-nipping somebody who would want to call me a tree-hugger/anti-gun nut. I know this forum.
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Old 16th August 2010, 02:01 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Charnel Expanse View Post
Does "a lot" not suffice as an answer?
"a whole bleeping lot", not to put too fine a point on it.
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Old 16th August 2010, 03:13 PM   #9
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Well, I own 5. One of my friends owns 3, another 2, and one of my professors 10. So that's 20/370, or roughly 5% of all guns in the U.S. between 4 people.
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Old 16th August 2010, 03:30 PM   #10
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Um, when we're talking "guns" here, we're talking those with two wheels or less, right? If not I gotta change my total.
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Old 16th August 2010, 03:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TheRedWorm View Post
Well, I own 5. One of my friends owns 3, another 2, and one of my professors 10. So that's 20/370, or roughly 5% of all guns in the U.S. between 4 people.
While I usually bitch at the pedants, I will accept that you are absolutely correct and I was absolutely wrong to leave the "million" off of each figure.
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Old 16th August 2010, 04:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Um, when we're talking "guns" here, we're talking those with two wheels or less, right?


Only if you're a liberal wuss.


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Old 16th August 2010, 04:54 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by gawdzilla View Post
not you in particular, just bud-nipping somebody who would want to call me a tree-hugger/anti-gun nut. I know this forum.
you're just a tree-hugging anti-gun nut!

Brought to you by Zep, living up to expectations since 2002!

Last edited by Zep; 16th August 2010 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 16th August 2010, 04:55 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Only if you're a liberal wuss.


Oh, good! And tracked vehicles? (M114 in the garage.)
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Old 17th August 2010, 04:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I see the one of the purposes of the Conspiracy sub-forum as debunking false interpretations of past events, quotes, and documents.

While researching the number of guns in the U.S.,1 I came across the claim that in 1961, the U.S. government actually announced its desire to remove all guns from the hands of Americans before turning the military over to the U.N.

The conspiracists are referring to Department of State Publication 7277 (Disarmament Series 5) Released September 1961. The entire text can be found on this semi-official government site (run by University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC)). The document is genuine, but should be taken in context. The U.S. and the Soviet Union were looking for a formal approach to disarmament talks. They finally agreed that the U.N. could be helpful in this respect. The state department wrote this U.N. proposal which was introduced to the U.N. Quite, obviously,as the negotiations progressed, neither side decided that this particular plan was going to meet their needs, so both sides backed away from it. Fortunately, however, the discussions from this U.N. proposal paved the way for nuclear weapon treaties in the next 20 years. The document does not (as some claim) carry the weight of law and was not a goal of any administration in the past 25 years.

The document does not specifically mention removing guns from the hands of Americans not in the military, but some might interpret the phrase "national arsenal" to include privately owned guns.


.................................................. .........
1) estimates with an identifiable, but not necessarily good methodology range from 192 to 283, estimates with no discernible methodology range from 150 to 370.
The start of a good Conspiracy Theory:
  1. Find yourself a Gov't document with suitable title.
  2. Don't read the full document, NEVER read it in full
  3. Post document on some favourable CT website.

Bingo, within a short time other retards...thickos....misguided CTers will latch on to said document as proof of whatever they are trying to prove and in next to no time "You done got yourself honest to goodness proof of........."

There was one on a Chemtrail(eeuugh!!) thread with a PDF from a Parliament sub committee meeting on regulation of airborne aerosols and discussion of Geoengineering and subsequent introduction of regulations etc. This quickly became proof that the Gov't were indeed sparaying and generally messing up the skies.

I'll try and find the PDF if I can.
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Old 17th August 2010, 06:16 AM   #16
Ladewig
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Originally Posted by talkie toaster View Post
The start of a good Conspiracy Theory:
  1. Find yourself a Gov't document with suitable title.
  2. Don't read the full document, NEVER read it in full
  3. Post document on some favourable CT website.

Bingo, within a short time other retards...thickos....misguided CTers will latch on to said document as proof of whatever they are trying to prove and in next to no time "You done got yourself honest to goodness proof of........."

There was one on a Chemtrail(eeuugh!!) thread with a PDF from a Parliament sub committee meeting on regulation of airborne aerosols and discussion of Geoengineering and subsequent introduction of regulations etc. This quickly became proof that the Gov't were indeed sparaying and generally messing up the skies.

I'll try and find the PDF if I can.
Well, it is easier if you start in the 1960's when the only way to find the publication was to contact the government and pay fifteen cents for it. Granted that is not a very high bar, but apparently it was high enough for some people.
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Old 17th August 2010, 07:39 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Well, it is easier if you start in the 1960's when the only way to find the publication was to contact the government and pay fifteen cents for it. Granted that is not a very high bar, but apparently it was high enough for some people.
Thus the origin of the expression "Nickel and diming us to death".
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Old 17th August 2010, 03:50 PM   #18
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I have a shotgun and a pistol.
The shotgun you get for free as part of living in the South.
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Old 17th August 2010, 04:33 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ShadowSot View Post
I have a shotgun and a pistol.
The shotgun you get for free as part of living in the South.
I went to a formal wedding in Arkansas once. I could tell it was a high-falutin' affair, even the shotguns were white.
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Old 19th August 2010, 02:19 PM   #20
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I live in WA. It is one of those states that only bans the guns rarely associated with crime and allows you to own certain others, but not use some of them. And most gun owners think that is just fine.

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