IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags cit , jeff hill , ron wieck

Reply
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:17 PM   #1
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Recovering Truther Jeff Hill Repents For His Sins In The Name Of The Truth Movement

The following email exchange is posted with permission from both correspondents. I have gotten rid of the email addresses for the sake of the two, though neither asked me to do so. It is the only edit I have done to the original exchange. I am posting it, not FOR someone, but because I felt it needed to be posted. The emails are in reverse order, so read them from bottom to top.

Quote:
From: SHURE Dj [mailto:*****]
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:42 AM
To: Ronald Wieck
Subject: RE: I have a qestion!



Hey Ron,

Post whatever you want.

Take care,
Jeff


From: ******
To: ******
Subject: RE: I have a qestion!
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:51:24 -0400

Dear Jeff,



Would you grant me permission to have your e-mail posted on the JREF? I have two purposes: to confound the idiot “bill smith” who persists in citing you as a no-planer and to show that you are serious about learning the truth about the 9/11 attacks.



Best,

Ron



From: SHURE Dj [mailto:*****]
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 5:22 PM
To: Ronald Wieck
Subject: RE: I have a qestion!



Hey Ron,

Thanks for the response!

I believe a plane hit the Pentagon because I have recenlty talked to many witnesses that saw it hit with their own eyes.

Since I started talking to Pentagon witnesses I have been getting attacked by Craig and his flyover followers who are babbling NOC is scientifically proven fact that a plane did not hit.

I am also being attacked by Rob Balsamo for the same thing. I also called him out on the "impossible speed" garbage telling him he misrepresented it as I did.

I just can't understand how these people can be so stupid to believe the stuff they are pushing because they come across as pretty smart people. I admit I was stupid for believing the stuff I did, but at least I have admitted I was wrong. I don't think they can use stupidity as an excuse!

Sorry for the arguments we had in the past. You were right and I was wrong, but I still don't believe the official story. Who knows, maybe someday I will, but I doubt it.

Take care,
Jeff


From: *****
To: *****
Subject: RE: I have a qestion!
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:35:47 -0400

Jeff,



Ranke’s flyover nonsense does not rise to the level of a theory as it fails on every level.



First, imagine someone proposing the plan to the council of super-villains:



“We aim the Boeing 757 straight at the Pentagon, then pull up at the last second and fly over the building.”



“How many G’s would the pilot be pulling?”



“Uh, how should I know?”



“Is this maneuver aerodynamically possible?”



“Beats the hell out of me.”



“I’ve got a better question. Wouldn’t EVERYBODY notice a plane just missing the Pentagon? How could we possibly sell the idea that the plane crashed when hundreds, if not thousands, of people would have seen with their own eyes that it didn’t, that it flew over the building instead?”



“That part of the plan needs some work.”



“Back up for a moment. Isn’t the idea to make it appear as though a commercial airliner crashed into the Pentagon?”



Yeah, that’s the idea.”



“So, you’re saying that we DON’T crash a commercial airliner into the Pentagon??”



“Um….”



The second stumbling block is that absolutely NOBODY phoned a call-in radio show or wrote a letter-to-the-editor to protest that the plane didn’t crash. NOBODY actually saw a flyover.



That brings us to the biggest stumbling block—the statistical improbability.



On September 11, 2001, events in NYC and Washington, D.C. were unfolding during rush hour. Thousands of people were on their way to work. How many witnesses do you suppose there were to the final moments of AA77? Three thousand? Two thousand? Only a thousand? Pick the lowest estimate you’re comfortable with. Then visualize the flight path of the plane, as determined by the FAA and the NTSB, as an arrow on a map. Finally, imagine that each witness represents a dot on that map and ask yourself what you’d expect to see. I’ll help: you would expect to see a cluster of a few hundred dots surrounding the arrow describing the actual flight path, with dots diminishing in volume as they spread out in either direction. At the two extremes to the right and left of the arrow, we’d see a handful of outliers.



What do Ranke and Marquis show us? BINGO! They show us one set of outliers. By concentrating entirely on the nine or ten outliers who describe an impossible north-of-CITGO path, they leave out EVERYBODY ELSE. The reason nobody takes the CIT-heads seriously is that they are incapable of figuring out what is wrong with their fantasy. They always tell you about the ten people whose accounts fit their pre-conceived hypothesis (note that NONE of their own witnesses observed a flyover), but they simply ignore everybody else.



Why don’t they have five hundred north-of-CITGO witnesses? Why do they have ZERO flyover witnesses? Visualizing their theory, the map shows ten outliers and NOTHING ELSE. Where did everybody go?



No, they will never get it. How about you?



Ron

























From: SHURE Dj [mailto:******]
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:18 PM
To: Ronald Wieck
Subject: I have a qestion!



Hey Ronaldo,

What do you think about Craig Ranke and his flyover theory at the Pentagon on 9/11?

Thanks,
Jeff
The exchange, obviously, is between former JREF member Ron Wieck, and Former Truther (likely still to some degree...as he admits) Jeff Hill.

Any comments, debunkers, truthers?

TAM

Last edited by T.A.M.; 23rd September 2010 at 04:18 PM.
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:22 PM   #2
Miragememories
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,473
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
The following email exchange is posted with permission from both correspondents. I have gotten rid of the email addresses for the sake of the two, though neither asked me to do so. It is the only edit I have done to the original exchange. I am posting it, not FOR someone, but because I felt it needed to be posted. The emails are in reverse order, so read them from bottom to top.



The exchange, obviously, is between former JREF member Ron Wieck, and Former Truther (likely still to some degree...as he admits) Jeff Hill.

Any comments, debunkers, truthers?

TAM
Originally Posted by Jeff Hill
"I still don't believe the official story. Who knows, maybe someday I will, but I doubt it."
MM
Miragememories is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:25 PM   #3
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
MM
where is your commentary? I indicated that he was likely still a truther, and that is why...he admits to not still believing the official story. Is that the only rebuttal you can come up with? Weak. Almost as weak as CIT theory.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:29 PM   #4
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
 
ElMondoHummus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,279
The actually relevant quote to highlight is:
Quote:
I just can't understand how these people can be so stupid to believe the stuff they are pushing...
So he's less a Ranke believer and more towards Gregory Urich's evidence-based thought process. That's a good thing, because say what you will, Gregory lets evidence form his conclusions, not the other way around.

Just because someone hasn't let go of a delusion yet, despite admitting it's flaws, it doesn't mean that the delusion is validated. It just means the person is still making the journey. That's all it means.
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."

Last edited by ElMondoHummus; 23rd September 2010 at 04:30 PM. Reason: Clarified the Urich reference
ElMondoHummus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:34 PM   #5
Miragememories
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,473
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
where is your commentary? I indicated that he was likely still a truther, and that is why...he admits to not still believing the official story. Is that the only rebuttal you can come up with? Weak. Almost as weak as CIT theory.

TAM
I want to hear more from Jeff and less from his private email exchange.

My response will be honest and not a kneejerk reaction like most people
produce here.

MM
Miragememories is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:36 PM   #6
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
I want to hear more from Jeff and less from his private email exchange.

My response will be honest and not a kneejerk reaction like most people
produce here.

MM
WHy? You do not believe he is telling the truth in his email? Why would he lie to such a debunkr as Ron Wieck?

That is SUCH, SUCH a dodge.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:39 PM   #7
Miragememories
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,473
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
WHy? You do not believe he is telling the truth in his email? Why would he lie to such a debunkr as Ron Wieck?

That is SUCH, SUCH a dodge.

TAM
Ron Wieck is the last worm I would speak openly to.

MM
Miragememories is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:41 PM   #8
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
Ron Wieck is the last worm I would speak openly to.

MM
dig the hole deeper MM. If Ron was such a "worm" and to be abhored, Jeff could have simply responded with a "go **** yourself" and that would have been that.

Read the details...he is quite explicit.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:42 PM   #9
quixotecoyote
Howling to glory I go
 
quixotecoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,379
Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
Ron Wieck is the last worm I would speak openly to.

MM
Any other people you'd like to note that you wouldn't tell the truth to? It might make your posts in this forum suddenly make more sense.
__________________
If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.
quixotecoyote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:46 PM   #10
Sword_Of_Truth
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 11,494
Jeff Hill - if you are lurking here and reading this - from another ex-CTer, well done.
Sword_Of_Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 04:52 PM   #11
DC
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
sounds like he is slowly recovering.
DC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 05:09 PM   #12
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
Quote:
Since I started talking to Pentagon witnesses I have been getting attacked by Craig and his flyover followers who are babbling NOC is scientifically proven fact that a plane did not hit.

I am also being attacked by Rob Balsamo for the same thing. I also called him out on the "impossible speed" garbage telling him he misrepresented it as I did.

Once again, we have someone who actually looks for evidence, and lets that evidence persuade him being attacked by the truthers for doing exactly that.

Typical.




Quote:
I just can't understand how these people can be so stupid to believe the stuff they are pushing because they come across as pretty smart people. I admit I was stupid for believing the stuff I did, but at least I have admitted I was wrong. I don't think they can use stupidity as an excuse!

I don't know if Shure will read this, but hey:

Being willing to admit you've been wrong, is a pretty good thing. Being stupid is not the worst thing in the world, being aggressively stupid and continuing to defend a wrong belief in the face of compelling evidence, as CIT and PfT do, is far far worse.

And if you can admit that you've been stupid, you're probably not quite as stupid as you think.


Unlike CIT.


And PfT.






P.S. to DC: nice sig! "It's time! It's time! It's time to hate the Swiss!"
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 05:19 PM   #13
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,031
Listen to the "debate" between Craig and Jeff and you know what's up.
__________________
"They threw the babies out of the incubators!" - Vladimir Z
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 05:19 PM   #14
triforcharity
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,961
Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
Jeff Hill - if you are lurking here and reading this - from another ex-CTer, well done.
SOT, I didn't know you were an Ex-truther!! Holy ****!! Learn something new every day here at the JREF!!
triforcharity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 05:27 PM   #15
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 14,239
Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
SOT, I didn't know you were an Ex-truther!! Holy ****!! Learn something new every day here at the JREF!!
I was as well. Briefly, after watching LC for the first time, before I actually started looking at the evidence. I think that applies to plenty of people.
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 05:40 PM   #16
Sword_Of_Truth
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 11,494
Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
SOT, I didn't know you were an Ex-truther!! Holy ****!! Learn something new every day here at the JREF!!
I was a pre-9/11 truther, actually. Take everything that spews from Alex Jones pie-hole and subtract anything about 9/11 and that was my political philosophy of the mid-1990s.

I described the events leading to my awakening here before. And, ironically, how I returned to where it all happened years before and met the then president of JREF, Dr Phil "The Bad Astronomer" Plait.

Jeff Hill is notorious for his behavior in his phone ambushes of people linked to the events of 9/11. But I sense in his e-mail the start of growth similar to what I have gone through. I hope he carries on with that.
Sword_Of_Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 05:42 PM   #17
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Listen to the "debate" between Craig and Jeff and you know what's up.
why not save us some agony and ear bleeding, and just tell us. I could guess what is on it, but I will refrain.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 05:45 PM   #18
TexasJack
Penultimate Amazing
 
TexasJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,906
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
why not save us some agony and ear bleeding, and just tell us. I could guess what is on it, but I will refrain.

TAM
I read some of the comments, and it appears to be a reflection of his e-mail to Ron.
TexasJack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 05:47 PM   #19
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by TexasJack View Post
I read some of the comments, and it appears to be a reflection of his e-mail to Ron.
really, so why would CLE present it as something to explain the email, or put it in context.

I thought it was going to reveal some falling out between Jeff and Craig, and then CLE was gonna proclaim...see, see, he is just disgruntled...

Oh well, I await further clarification.

TAM

Last edited by T.A.M.; 23rd September 2010 at 05:59 PM. Reason: I meant Craig, not Bob
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 05:58 PM   #20
TexasJack
Penultimate Amazing
 
TexasJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,906
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
really, so why would CLE present it as something to explain the email, or put it in context.

I thought it was going to reveal some falling out between Jeff and Rob, and then CLE was gonna proclaim...see, see, he is just disgruntled...

Oh well, I await further clarification.

TAM
I assume you mean Ron, and not Rob. I listened to a little bit (it's a podcast between Jeff and Craig), it sounds like, in a nutshell, Jeff is telling Craig that the fly-over is stupid.
TexasJack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:00 PM   #21
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by TexasJack View Post
I assume you mean Ron, and not Rob. I listened to a little bit (it's a podcast between Jeff and Craig), it sounds like, in a nutshell, Jeff is telling Craig that the fly-over is stupid.
Fixed it...

I was referring to the audio debate link that CLE presented as rebuttal.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:01 PM   #22
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,031
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
why not save us some agony and ear bleeding, and just tell us.

Why should i? You wouldn't believe me anyway. Take it or leave it. It's your topic - and not news at all.
__________________
"They threw the babies out of the incubators!" - Vladimir Z
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:03 PM   #23
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 17,779
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Fixed it...

I was referring to the audio debate link that CLE presented as rebuttal.

TAM
How do you know a rebuttal is in the offing?
CE refuses to commit...
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:03 PM   #24
TexasJack
Penultimate Amazing
 
TexasJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,906
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Fixed it...

I was referring to the audio debate link that CLE presented as rebuttal.

TAM
Yes, that's the one I'm talking about. It's a link to Jeff's site and has the podcast there and posters commenting on it.
TexasJack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:07 PM   #25
T.A.M.
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Why should i? You wouldn't believe me anyway. Take it or leave it. It's your topic - and not news at all.
Well people who I trust more then you are telling me it is essentially nothing, in terms of explaining why Jeff is recanting, so I guess unless you can prove different, I will take their word.

So I guess that is the best you've got. No news at all.

TAM
T.A.M. is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:16 PM   #26
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
really, so why would CLE present it as something to explain the email, or put it in context.

I thought it was going to reveal some falling out between Jeff and Craig, and then CLE was gonna proclaim...see, see, he is just disgruntled...

Oh well, I await further clarification.

TAM

Having listened to about 30 minutes of it, it sounds an awful lot like our debates with CIT, with Shure in the JREF role. That is, pointing out to CIT that they have no witnesses to a flyover, and that they have lots of witnesses to a plane crashing into the Pentagon.


Oh, and at one point Craig asserts that the Truth Movement doesn't believe any crazy ideas.


I'll keep listening, and see if it gets better. I can sleep in tomorrow, and am drinking beer tonight....
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:20 PM   #27
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
"We don't have a theory, what we've done is provide enough evidence to prove it..." -Craig


Prove what, exactly?



__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:27 PM   #28
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,031
Funny thing is that Jeff tried to disprove CIT by phoning the witnesses. Turned out that he obtained more NoC evidence, just like that other Larson guy. No surprise he is a little bit pissed, especially after that "debate" (from May btw), which was not fair at all. Nothing against Jeff, but he's a simpleton compared to Craig.
__________________
"They threw the babies out of the incubators!" - Vladimir Z
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:34 PM   #29
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Nothing against Jeff, but he's a simpleton compared to Craig.

I'd agree that Craig is much more adept at slinging the BS than Jeff, but the "simpleton" question is still open....



"That's 100% scientifically proven" -Craig, completely ignoring everything anyone else has ever said about the levels of certainty in "science".



Oh, and Craig implies he doesn't believe there was a plane at Shanksville.
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:36 PM   #30
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,031
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
I'd agree that Craig is much more adept at slinging the BS than Jeff, but the "simpleton" question is still open...

IIRC, that audio is loooong and redundant. But have fun!
__________________
"They threw the babies out of the incubators!" - Vladimir Z
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:38 PM   #31
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
IIRC, that audio is loooong and redundant. But have fun!


Oh, yeah, redundant as all hell!


Not so much on the "fun"part,m but TAM need smy help. And I'm alittle drunk by now.......Chefck out he typos....
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:39 PM   #32
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 17,779
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Funny thing is that Jeff tried to disprove CIT by phoning the witnesses. Turned out that he obtained more NoC evidence, just like that other Larson guy. No surprise he is a little bit pissed, especially after that "debate" (from May btw), which was not fair at all. Nothing against Jeff, but he's a simpleton compared to Craig.
I have listened to the first 31 minutes so far.
Yes, Jeff is a simpleton so far compared to cunning and manipulative Craig.
No wonder Jeff was a Truther so long.
No wonder Craig got the witness testimonies he craved for.

Jeff remains a simpleton because he lets Craig make him agree to the NOC proposition, when he should see that cherry-picked eye-witnesses don't prove much.

I should have no trouble finding people here in Erkelenz who would testify today that out 1992 earthquake shook a minute or longer, if I just ask them cunningly. I can surely make some tell me all the things they did during that minute, to corroborate that minute.
Wasn't a minute. Was 14 seconds at most
(I overheard one man the day after who was sure it was 2 minutes)


The handful of witnesses Craig relies on is refuted by the overwhelming majority of witnesses who saw a plane crash into the Pentagon.
That majority is corroborated by ALL the physical evicence. Craig's cherry-picked witnesses are corroborated my NONE of the physical evidence.
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:41 PM   #33
Thunder
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,918
what would be the point of actually flying a 757 towards the Pentagon, but then avoiding an impact at the last moment?

if you want to convince the world that a 757 crashed into the Pentago, wouldn't you just...err...um....CRASH into the Pentagon?

this whole fly-over idea makes no sense. it defies logic and common sense.

if you DON'T crash it into the Pentagon, then you have to plant lots of plane parts and passenger pieces.

CRASH into the Pentagon, and this is all taken care of.

this fly-over idea is just plain stupid.

Last edited by Thunder; 23rd September 2010 at 06:43 PM.
Thunder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:42 PM   #34
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,031
@Horatius: No worries, i don't plan on "rebutting" anything here. Allow me just the remark that the thread title is complete BS. TAM was a little overexcited when he wrote that, i suspect.

Originally Posted by Jeff Hill
Sorry for the arguments we had in the past. You were right and I was wrong, but I still don't believe the official story. Who knows, maybe someday I will, but I doubt it.
__________________
"They threw the babies out of the incubators!" - Vladimir Z
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:42 PM   #35
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
He (Being Craig!) whines about how his pilot experts have proven that it's impossible for the plane flying NoC to hit the lightpoles &c, and yet he fails to mention that other experts have calculated that any flight path consistent with their NoC claims is also physically impossible.


ETA; and there's a long awkward pause. Not that means much beyond a symbolic thingamajig.....
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

Last edited by Horatius; 23rd September 2010 at 06:43 PM.
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:48 PM   #36
Cl1mh4224rd
Philosopher
 
Cl1mh4224rd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,778
Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
I want to hear more from Jeff and less from his private email exchange.

Ummm... what?
Cl1mh4224rd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:49 PM   #37
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
@Horatius: No worries, i don't plan on "rebutting" anything here. Allow me just the remark that the thread title is complete BS. TAM was a little overexcited when he wrote that, i suspect.


Well, one can repent sins while still believing that 9/11 was an inside job.


I'm sure even you could agree that there's an awful lot of BS being promoted as "proof" of an inside job. Being willing to reject the BS is an important first step in establishing the real truth of 9/11 - whatever it is.

That Shure has shown a willingness to reject obvious BS is a sign that he'll (hopefully) come to reject the less obvious BS.

I'm betting that, at that point, he'll support the "OCT".


But that's just me.
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:56 PM   #38
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,031
Did you miss the "Former Truther" thingy in the title? Nevermind, cheers!
__________________
"They threw the babies out of the incubators!" - Vladimir Z
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:57 PM   #39
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
"Nobody has contested it!"


"It" being their completely ridiculous flight path that no one actually believes actually occurred.

Wow, that's some great science, right there!
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd September 2010, 06:58 PM   #40
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,556
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Did you miss the "Former Truther" thingy in the title? Nevermind, cheers!


Kanpai!


+1 CE





__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:49 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.