Eckhart Tolle

Pauliesonne · 25th September 2010, 05:54 PM

What do you guy's think? My cousin told me about him yesterday and it seems like he's teaching something that dosen't have any strict religious rules to it. No heaven and hell is a plus too. I thought I might buy an audiobook of his from itunes.

But I wanted to know what you guy's think before I delve into this seemingly harmless...I don't know what word to use to end this sentence. i thought about using the world "stuff" but decided against it.

gph · 25th September 2010, 06:10 PM

From the Eckhart Tolle about page:

Quote:

At the core of the teachings lies the transformation of consciousness, a spiritual awakening that he sees as the next step in human evolution.

I'd want a clear definition of "spiritual awakening" and what evidence he has that it's "the next step in human evolution" before I'd waste any time on him.

For me, "spiritual" is a code word for "magic innards"

PixyMisa · 25th September 2010, 09:01 PM

"Spiritual" is a fancy word for "meaningless".

Belgian thought · 25th September 2010, 09:07 PM

The guy (and his partner) sure do have a lot of "stuff" to sell.

A heavy mixture of the "spiritual" with the "material".

Madalch · 25th September 2010, 10:32 PM

I've been told that I look a lot like him. I was not flattered.

mactonite · 25th September 2010, 11:24 PM

Somebody needs to tell these people that the new age phase is on its way out. The crystals told me so.

qayak · 26th September 2010, 05:03 PM

One of his books was recommended to me and so, of course, I read it . . . well, more accurately, I gagged my way through it.

Starts out okay as a "power of positive thinking" thing but that's old news and it quickly spirals into the realm of crazy crap.

Wouldn't recommend it to anyone. If you want a spiritually uplifting book, "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman" is so much better and based on reality, too.

AaronMic22 · 26th September 2010, 05:10 PM

The Power of Now, if you can filter out the spirituality crap, speaks about a great concept - the power of living in the present rather than wasting time on the past and future.

I'm good at filtering out nonsense, so I was able to make it to the end of this one. It was more of an expose on living now rather than a how-to guide.

The Eastern argument would be that you're supposed to meditate on ambiguous, vague teachings so as to realize them for yourself. This is why Tolle does not get specific with his claims.

The Western argument would be that Tolle is annoyingly beating around the bush.

He isn't a Christian, but he sees benefit in the Bible's teachings. He frequently mentions Jesus, but it's clear that he believes in one consciousness stuff. I find this sort of thing irritating simply because it is in the same sandbox as the law of attraction.

ThatSoundAgain · 26th September 2010, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by AaronMHatch

The Power of Now, if you can filter out the spirituality crap, speaks about a great concept - the power of living in the present rather than wasting time on the past and future.

Ca't you get that from less nonsensical sources, though?

I've read a bit of what I like to call "management philosophy" authors. I still think they're largely annoying, but at least they're practical and concrete compared to the new-agers. I'm thinking of Covey, Allen and the like.

There's this psychologist, Csikszentmihalyi, whose concept of flow makes a lot of sense to me. A lot of these management philosophy guys have taken that in, and built a coaching / positive thinking mess on top of it. I haven't read his own books, but I guess I'd start there.

SezMe · 26th September 2010, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Pauliesonne

But I wanted to know what you guy's think before I delve into this seemingly harmless...I don't know what word to use to end this sentence. i thought about using the world "stuff" but decided against it.

Can I suggest "drivel"?

Don't waste your time and money.

Roboramma · 26th September 2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

a spiritual awakening that he sees as the next step in human evolution

Personally I have a problem with people who misrepresent the science of evolutionary biology. Anyone who thinks of evolution as a ladder, up which we are climbing, and particularly those who predict the next step, is doing so.

Those who also misrepresent evolution as a process that occurs in individuals rather than populations even more so.

I have friends who follow this stuff and the misrepresentation of evolution is exasperating.

AaronMic22 · 26th September 2010, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain

Ca't you get that from less nonsensical sources, though?

I personally haven't found any that discuss this topic, though I haven't looked. Your sources likely are good starting points. In general, attaining facts from less nonsensical sources is a good idea. It would certainly prevent a lot of eye rolling, something that I dealt with in Tolle's book.

He has another book that I refuse to touch.. it's called A New Earth. This one gets into a whole bunch of woo and has poisoned several of the weak minds I know.

Tolle, according to the bit of autobiography in The Power of Now, seems like one of those journeymen who struggled with finding a purpose early on in life, only to discover one in the realm of woo during his 30s. It's very easy, in my opinion, to get caught up in the one-consciousness talk and to stay committed to selling it after seeing how much cash you can sucker out of, well, suckers. He comes off as a gentle, loving person. In reality, anyone who prints a book such as The Power of Now and then releases a companion book that basically rehashes the same stuff is a snakeoil salesman.

Bad, Tolle, bad.

PixyMisa · 26th September 2010, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain

There's this psychologist, Csikszentmihalyi, whose concept of flow makes a lot of sense to me. A lot of these management philosophy guys have taken that in, and built a coaching / positive thinking mess on top of it. I haven't read his own books, but I guess I'd start there.

The concept, and even the name, of flow has been around longer than that, e.g. the classic 1987 project management book Peopleware which is all about how to get programmers into flow and keep them there. Any good programmer will be familiar with the concept - and probably also with the term and the book.

Robin · 27th September 2010, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Can I suggest "drivel"?

Don't waste your time and money.

SezMe too.

qayak · 27th September 2010, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

SezMe too.

SezMe three.

ThatSoundAgain · 27th September 2010, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by PixyMisa

The concept, and even the name, of flow has been around longer than that, e.g. the classic 1987 project management book Peopleware which is all about how to get programmers into flow and keep them there. Any good programmer will be familiar with the concept - and probably also with the term and the book.

Am I still a good programmer if I know of the concept from a different source?

Actually, that's just the name they all drop, or at least the one I remember.

Soapy Sam · 27th September 2010, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by PixyMisa

"Spiritual" is a fancy word for "meaningless".

Not quite.
"Spiritual" has two meanings, depending on who uses it.
1. "Superior to other people by dint of having a direct connection with the numinous force which powers the Universe."

and

2. Meaningless.

Choose one.

cosmicaug · 27th September 2012, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by AaronMHatch

He has another book that I refuse to touch.. it's called A New Earth. This one gets into a whole bunch of woo and has poisoned several of the weak minds I know.

How so?

Nowhere Man · 27th September 2012, 07:50 PM

CosmicAug, you won't get an answer from AaronMHatch. He hasn't been around here since nearly two years ago.

Fred

cosmicaug · 28th September 2012, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man

CosmicAug, you won't get an answer from AaronMHatch. He hasn't been around here since nearly two years ago.

Fred

If his experience is typical, someone else could answer, though.

I'm just curious about Tolle and whether there's anything more pernicious about him than the money grubbing.

Yeah, I know, thread necromancy.

ufology · 28th September 2012, 09:45 AM

The video moves along so slowly that at one point I thought it was on pause. For someone who is in the moment he sure seems to waste a lot of them. However when he said there is no such thing as the future, because if there was someone would have discovered it by now, and planted a flag there and come back to tell us about it, I do confess to a mild chuckle.

25th September 2010, 05:54 PM	#1
Pauliesonne Bi Gi Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,687	Eckhart Tolle What do you guy's think? My cousin told me about him yesterday and it seems like he's teaching something that dosen't have any strict religious rules to it. No heaven and hell is a plus too. I thought I might buy an audiobook of his from itunes. But I wanted to know what you guy's think before I delve into this seemingly harmless...I don't know what word to use to end this sentence. i thought about using the world "stuff" but decided against it.
Pauliesonne Bi Gi Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,687	__________________ Back again... for a period of time. Last edited by Pauliesonne; 25th September 2010 at 05:56 PM.

25th September 2010, 06:10 PM	#2
gph Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 349	From the Eckhart Tolle about page: Quote: At the core of the teachings lies the transformation of consciousness, a spiritual awakening that he sees as the next step in human evolution. I'd want a clear definition of "spiritual awakening" and what evidence he has that it's "the next step in human evolution" before I'd waste any time on him. For me, "spiritual" is a code word for "magic innards"
gph Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 349	Last edited by gph; 25th September 2010 at 06:12 PM.

25th September 2010, 09:01 PM	#3
PixyMisa Persnickety Insect Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sunny Munuvia Posts: 16,343	"Spiritual" is a fancy word for "meaningless".
	__________________ Free blogs for skeptics... And everyone else. mee.nu What, in the Holy Name of Gzortch, are you people doing?!?!!? - TGHO

25th September 2010, 10:32 PM	#5
Madalch The Jester Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 9,763	I've been told that I look a lot like him. I was not flattered.
Madalch The Jester Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 9,763	__________________ As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of resolving approaches zero. -Vaarsuvius It's a rum state of affairs when you feel like punching a jar of mayonnaise in the face. -Charlie Brooker

25th September 2010, 11:24 PM	#6
mactonite Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 432	Somebody needs to tell these people that the new age phase is on its way out. The crystals told me so.
	__________________ Red Blue Violet Green

25th September 2010, 09:07 PM	#4
Belgian thought Master Poster Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,317	The guy (and his partner) sure do have a lot of "stuff" to sell. A heavy mixture of the "spiritual" with the "material".

26th September 2010, 05:03 PM	#7
qayak Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,842	One of his books was recommended to me and so, of course, I read it . . . well, more accurately, I gagged my way through it. Starts out okay as a "power of positive thinking" thing but that's old news and it quickly spirals into the realm of crazy crap. Wouldn't recommend it to anyone. If you want a spiritually uplifting book, "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman" is so much better and based on reality, too.
	__________________ "How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be."

26th September 2010, 05:10 PM	#8
AaronMic22 Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 347	The Power of Now, if you can filter out the spirituality crap, speaks about a great concept - the power of living in the present rather than wasting time on the past and future. I'm good at filtering out nonsense, so I was able to make it to the end of this one. It was more of an expose on living now rather than a how-to guide. The Eastern argument would be that you're supposed to meditate on ambiguous, vague teachings so as to realize them for yourself. This is why Tolle does not get specific with his claims. The Western argument would be that Tolle is annoyingly beating around the bush. He isn't a Christian, but he sees benefit in the Bible's teachings. He frequently mentions Jesus, but it's clear that he believes in one consciousness stuff. I find this sort of thing irritating simply because it is in the same sandbox as the law of attraction.

26th September 2010, 06:15 PM	#9
ThatSoundAgain Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,305	Originally Posted by AaronMHatch The Power of Now, if you can filter out the spirituality crap, speaks about a great concept - the power of living in the present rather than wasting time on the past and future. Ca't you get that from less nonsensical sources, though? I've read a bit of what I like to call "management philosophy" authors. I still think they're largely annoying, but at least they're practical and concrete compared to the new-agers. I'm thinking of Covey, Allen and the like. There's this psychologist, Csikszentmihalyi, whose concept of flow makes a lot of sense to me. A lot of these management philosophy guys have taken that in, and built a coaching / positive thinking mess on top of it. I haven't read his own books, but I guess I'd start there.

26th September 2010, 06:18 PM	#10
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,183	Originally Posted by Pauliesonne But I wanted to know what you guy's think before I delve into this seemingly harmless...I don't know what word to use to end this sentence. i thought about using the world "stuff" but decided against it. Can I suggest "drivel"? Don't waste your time and money.

26th September 2010, 06:29 PM	#11
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 15,570	Quote: a spiritual awakening that he sees as the next step in human evolution Personally I have a problem with people who misrepresent the science of evolutionary biology. Anyone who thinks of evolution as a ladder, up which we are climbing, and particularly those who predict the next step, is doing so. Those who also misrepresent evolution as a process that occurs in individuals rather than populations even more so. I have friends who follow this stuff and the misrepresentation of evolution is exasperating.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

26th September 2010, 07:22 PM	#12
AaronMic22 Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 347	Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain Ca't you get that from less nonsensical sources, though? I personally haven't found any that discuss this topic, though I haven't looked. Your sources likely are good starting points. In general, attaining facts from less nonsensical sources is a good idea. It would certainly prevent a lot of eye rolling, something that I dealt with in Tolle's book. He has another book that I refuse to touch.. it's called A New Earth. This one gets into a whole bunch of woo and has poisoned several of the weak minds I know. Tolle, according to the bit of autobiography in The Power of Now, seems like one of those journeymen who struggled with finding a purpose early on in life, only to discover one in the realm of woo during his 30s. It's very easy, in my opinion, to get caught up in the one-consciousness talk and to stay committed to selling it after seeing how much cash you can sucker out of, well, suckers. He comes off as a gentle, loving person. In reality, anyone who prints a book such as The Power of Now and then releases a companion book that basically rehashes the same stuff is a snakeoil salesman. Bad, Tolle, bad.
	Last edited by AaronMic22; 26th September 2010 at 07:25 PM.

26th September 2010, 09:45 PM	#13
PixyMisa Persnickety Insect Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sunny Munuvia Posts: 16,343	Originally Posted by ThatSoundAgain There's this psychologist, Csikszentmihalyi, whose concept of flow makes a lot of sense to me. A lot of these management philosophy guys have taken that in, and built a coaching / positive thinking mess on top of it. I haven't read his own books, but I guess I'd start there. The concept, and even the name, of flow has been around longer than that, e.g. the classic 1987 project management book Peopleware which is all about how to get programmers into flow and keep them there. Any good programmer will be familiar with the concept - and probably also with the term and the book.
	__________________ Free blogs for skeptics... And everyone else. mee.nu What, in the Holy Name of Gzortch, are you people doing?!?!!? - TGHO

27th September 2010, 04:11 AM	#14
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 14,971	Originally Posted by SezMe Can I suggest "drivel"? Don't waste your time and money. SezMe too.
	__________________ We all hate poverty, war, and injustice Unlike the rest of you squares. Tom Lehrer - Folk Song Army

27th September 2010, 09:18 AM	#15
qayak Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,842	Originally Posted by Robin SezMe too. SezMe three.
	__________________ "How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be."

27th September 2010, 10:03 AM	#16
ThatSoundAgain Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,305	Originally Posted by PixyMisa The concept, and even the name, of flow has been around longer than that, e.g. the classic 1987 project management book Peopleware which is all about how to get programmers into flow and keep them there. Any good programmer will be familiar with the concept - and probably also with the term and the book. Am I still a good programmer if I know of the concept from a different source? Actually, that's just the name they all drop, or at least the one I remember.

27th September 2010, 03:04 PM	#17
Soapy Sam Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 28,766	Originally Posted by PixyMisa "Spiritual" is a fancy word for "meaningless". Not quite. "Spiritual" has two meanings, depending on who uses it. 1. "Superior to other people by dint of having a direct connection with the numinous force which powers the Universe." and 2. Meaningless. Choose one.

27th September 2012, 05:04 PM	#18
cosmicaug Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,927	Originally Posted by AaronMHatch He has another book that I refuse to touch.. it's called A New Earth. This one gets into a whole bunch of woo and has poisoned several of the weak minds I know. How so?

27th September 2012, 07:50 PM	#19
Nowhere Man Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 291	CosmicAug, you won't get an answer from AaronMHatch. He hasn't been around here since nearly two years ago. Fred
	__________________ Hey, you! "It's" with an apostrophe means "it is" or "it has." "Its" without an apostrophe means "belongs to it." "For shame, gentlemen, pack your evidence a little better against another time." -- John Dryden, "The Vindication of The Duke of Guise" 1684

28th September 2012, 07:38 AM	#20
cosmicaug Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,927	Originally Posted by Nowhere Man CosmicAug, you won't get an answer from AaronMHatch. He hasn't been around here since nearly two years ago. Fred If his experience is typical, someone else could answer, though. I'm just curious about Tolle and whether there's anything more pernicious about him than the money grubbing. Yeah, I know, thread necromancy.

28th September 2012, 09:45 AM	#21
ufology Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,681	The video moves along so slowly that at one point I thought it was on pause. For someone who is in the moment he sure seems to waste a lot of them. However when he said there is no such thing as the future, because if there was someone would have discovered it by now, and planted a flag there and come back to tell us about it, I do confess to a mild chuckle.
ufology Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,681	__________________ USI Calgary