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The ideal world according to Jesus Christ

Gaetan

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Gaetan
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Feb 19, 2009
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The ideal world according to Jesus Christ

In an ideal world according to Jesus Christ and God all goods and services shall be free and peoples making them shall do it by voluntary work. Money is completely abolish. In this ideal system, those who want to live in luxury can and those who want to live soberly shall be encouraged. In the making of a good, his recycle after decrepitude shall be considered before all. The laws shall be abolish and citizens shall have complete liberty. Orientation of workers shall be the first cause of productivity , so everyone shall do a work he likes to do, for every work, there is a person who likes to do this work, God wanted it this way. In this ideal, as there will be no more money, the criminality for profit will be reduced to nothingness. Prisons and judiciary system are abolished and replaced by conciliation between individuals, lawyers are replaced by social workers and judges by wise men. Borders between countries are abolished, peoples of this planet can move freely and a common language learned in school with local language, in this way there will be no need to spend fabulous amount of money for arming to protect counties.

Gaétan
 
Ooooookayyyyy.

The interpretation of the world according to Jesus Christ by the church (esp. in the early days when it had iron-fist-like, absolute control) was that one should be chaste, diminutive, ignorant, obedient, willing to die instead of deny Jesus (martyrdom), convert profusely (even if it requires war, torture, genocide, or even absorption of other religious traditions), and await gladly death for it is life forever for believers.

Which Jesus were we talking about again? The one that optimistic, neo-gnostics adopt (as in your commentary)? Or the one that can be read in the progression of the various churches (Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Protestant)?

Ideals are nice goals or tools but they seldom reflect reality. See every attempt at 'Utopian' societies (many based directly on these so called Christian principles that you espouse). Every one has failed. Maybe one can give merit to Amish who have succeeded rather well in their simplistic, agrarian closed society - but it is not without its problems.
 
kuroyume0161 said:
Ooooookayyyyy.


Which Jesus were we talking about again? The one that optimistic, neo-gnostics adopt (as in your commentary)? Or the one that can be read in the progression of the various churches (Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Protestant)?
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Merci to see that my point of view was gnostic and it can only be, but stay on the subject, thank you
 
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Well, Oscar Wilde once compared Peter Kropotkin to Christ, I recall. I suppose you could see some of Kropotkin's ideas in the statement in the OP. However, when it comes to Jesus, while I understand where you're coming from, I'm not so sure it's a very strongly founded interpretation.

It's pleasant, though.
 
In my ideal world everyone is rich and beautiful. No one is sick or in pain, no one dies. There is no war. Everyone has the best education and we spend our time exploring the Universe, creating beautiful music and art, making love, raising beautiful children and eating our hearts out without ever getting fat.

I think that's a better version than the one you think Jesus would have if he could. What do you think.
 
EDIT: Never mind, this thread is too patently stupid to merit even a sarcastic reply...involving Somalians.
 
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You fellows capitalists take your spirituality from fox news or others garbage medias, stay on the subject. Thanks

Gaétan
 
Gaetan said:
Satan and his peoples, the one who killed Jesus Christ
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I'm pretty certain that the story is that Jesus was God in human form so that he could teach a bit and then sacrifice himself to abolish the sins which he allowed to occur anyway. Where does Satan enter the picture on the sacrificial (killed?) part? Satan was sent by God to tempt himself away from the deed to which he set for himself at the beginning (after his baptism by John, he went into the desert before assembling his disciples and starting his ministry). Convoluted doesn't begin to describe...
 
RoboTimbo said:
So God/Jesus isn't omnipotent?
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No, God don't have more power than Satan, a spirit is a spirit and spirit have the power of a spirit nothing more. But, you changed the subjet, keep on the subject.

Gaétan
 
kuroyume0161 said:
I'm pretty certain that the story is that Jesus was God in human form so that he could teach a bit and then sacrifice himself to abolish the sins which he allowed to occur anyway. Where does Satan enter the picture on the sacrificial (killed?) part? Satan was sent by God to tempt himself away from the deed to which he set for himself at the beginning (after his baptism by John, he went into the desert before assembling his disciples and starting his ministry). Convoluted doesn't begin to describe...
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This have nothing to do with the subject, keep on the subject please.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Then Satan will continue to thwart God's plan and your OP will never come true. Why did you think it would?
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Satan has an army who support him, republicans, medias, capitalist and money, peoples who listen to them. What can we do?

Gaétan
 
Gaetan said:
This have nothing to do with the subject, keep on the subject please.
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You may have noticed that I was quoting YOUR response. Your answer to a question about why this utopia hasn't happened is 'Satan ... the one who killed Jesus Christ'. Bzzzt. Wrong. There is not a single shred of evidence that supports this conclusion, not even in the non-canonical scriptures. Jesus wasn't an innocent sent to his death by Satan, Jews, or Romans. He, admittedly at the Last Supper and in the Garden of Gethsemane, was going to be a willing sacrifice to give his body and blood in the forgiveness of sins and giving of the spirit (my old 'soul shards' rant). Oh, there were players required to enact the deed but they were pawns on a board (Judas, Caiaphas, Pontius Pilate, et al). God wrote the script and assigned himself the title role.
 
Gaetan said:
Satan has an army who support him, republicans, medias, capitalist and money, peoples who listen to them. What can we do?

Gaétan
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Stick to the subject. There were no republicans, medias, or capitalists in the OP. Why does Satan need an army if he is as powerful as God?
 
kuroyume0161 said:
Jesus wasn't an innocent sent to his death by Satan, Jews, or Romans. He, admittedly at the Last Supper and in the Garden of Gethsemane, was going to be a willing sacrifice to give his body and blood in the forgiveness of sins and giving of the spirit (my old 'soul shards' rant).
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NO, He have been killed By Satan and his peoples. You are completely wrong. He sacrifice himself to teach us how to live, to save us from sins by his teaching. This is completely wrong to think he have been killed to save us like jews use to kill a beef to releive him from sin, no one can be relieve from sins from a sacrifice as it can only make it worse.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Stick to the subject. There were no republicans, medias, or capitalists in the OP. Why does Satan need an army if he is as powerful as God?
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A spirit is a spirit and have the power of a spirit, but this fellow have an army of republicans, medias and money to support him and this is almost impossible to fight against it.
 
You do know that in the U.S. the Republicans used to be the party of Lincoln, right? The one who saved the union and freed the slaves? And that in Spain the republicans opposed the fascists?
 
Gaetan said:
NO, He have been killed By Satan and his peoples. You are completely wrong. He sacrifice himself to teach us how to live, to save us from sins by his teaching. This is completely wrong to think he have been killed to save us like jews use to kill a beef to releive him from sin, no one can be relieve from sins from a sacrifice as it can only make it worse.
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His death and resurrection were for the atonement of human sins by sacrifice and to afford salvation (though you must also believe and ask forgiveness of contemporaneous sins to achieve this).

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/easter2.htm

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t015.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/got-forgiveness.html

http://www.christianity.co.nz/res-5.htm

John the Baptist introduced Him, saying "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world"
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Lamb of God is a quite direct reference to Jesus being a sacrificial offering. It wasn't because he was cute and fuzzy by any stretch. Lambs were a typical sacrificial animal at the altar.

Which writings about Jesus or the Christ do you follow?
 
You mention abolishing laws. The law is the only thing that civilizes us. The fact that legal institutions have more power than the people who make them up is all that is between us and the cavemen. Religion won't do it. A law that is written down that all people can access is the only thing keeping us from dystopia.

When I say law here I don't mean the bad copy of religious law here either. That's just a tyranny where a religious scholar interprets some silly book written for people who lived two thousand years ago and applies it to situations unenvisioned by the authors. I'm talking about legal system where the state has to prove its case and there are rules of evidence and people are held accountable to a common standard.

Sorry, your vision would see our cities burn, our culture destroyed and our people living under the tyranny of a corrupt scholarly elite. For all its imperfections (and there are many) I'll think I'd like to stick with bifurcated Jeffersonian Democracy thanks.
 
Gaetan said:
The ideal world according to Jesus Christ

In an ideal world according to Jesus Christ and God all goods and services shall be free and peoples making them shall do it by voluntary work. Money is completely abolish. In this ideal system, those who want to live in luxury can and those who want to live soberly shall be encouraged. In the making of a good, his recycle after decrepitude shall be considered before all. The laws shall be abolish and citizens shall have complete liberty. Orientation of workers shall be the first cause of productivity , so everyone shall do a work he likes to do, for every work, there is a person who likes to do this work, God wanted it this way. In this ideal, as there will be no more money, the criminality for profit will be reduced to nothingness. Prisons and judiciary system are abolished and replaced by conciliation between individuals, lawyers are replaced by social workers and judges by wise men. Borders between countries are abolished, peoples of this planet can move freely and a common language learned in school with local language, in this way there will be no need to spend fabulous amount of money for arming to protect counties.

Gaétan
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The ideal world to jesus would be obeying the ten commandments and not even think of disobeying them. No sex until marriage and sex only for procreation after marriage. A completely sterile boring life which you nevertheless enjoy. You get more of the same when you die.
 
Gaetan said:
The ideal world according to Jesus Christ

In an ideal world according to Jesus Christ and God all goods and services shall be free and peoples making them shall do it by voluntary work. Money is completely abolish. In this ideal system, those who want to live in luxury can and those who want to live soberly shall be encouraged. In the making of a good, his recycle after decrepitude shall be considered before all. The laws shall be abolish and citizens shall have complete liberty. Orientation of workers shall be the first cause of productivity , so everyone shall do a work he likes to do, for every work, there is a person who likes to do this work, God wanted it this way. In this ideal, as there will be no more money, the criminality for profit will be reduced to nothingness. Prisons and judiciary system are abolished and replaced by conciliation between individuals, lawyers are replaced by social workers and judges by wise men. Borders between countries are abolished, peoples of this planet can move freely and a common language learned in school with local language, in this way there will be no need to spend fabulous amount of money for arming to protect counties.

Gaétan
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If it didn't work in the late '60's, what makes you think it's going to work now?
 
What if everyone wanted a Veyron, the original of the Mona Lisa, and to bathe in champagne every day - and didn't feel like doing any work?

Human nature is such that a world without money and without laws, and with as-yet-uninvented robots to do the work, would very quickly collapse into lawlessness and scarcity.
 
Gaetan said:
The ideal world according to Jesus Christ

In an ideal world according to Jesus Christ and God all goods and services shall be free and peoples making them shall do it by voluntary work. Money is completely abolish. In this ideal system, those who want to live in luxury can and those who want to live soberly shall be encouraged. In the making of a good, his recycle after decrepitude shall be considered before all. The laws shall be abolish and citizens shall have complete liberty. Orientation of workers shall be the first cause of productivity , so everyone shall do a work he likes to do, for every work, there is a person who likes to do this work, God wanted it this way. In this ideal, as there will be no more money, the criminality for profit will be reduced to nothingness. Prisons and judiciary system are abolished and replaced by conciliation between individuals, lawyers are replaced by social workers and judges by wise men. Borders between countries are abolished, peoples of this planet can move freely and a common language learned in school with local language, in this way there will be no need to spend fabulous amount of money for arming to protect counties.

Gaétan
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The ideal world, according to John Lennon:

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
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Opps, abolished religion as well. But, why not?

Hans
 
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Gaetan said:
In an ideal world according to Jesus Christ and God all goods and services shall be free and peoples making them shall do it by voluntary work....
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You could sum that up something like, from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. I wonder if anyone has thought of that before or tried it?
 
Gaetan said:
A spirit is a spirit and have the power of a spirit, but this fellow have an army of republicans, medias and money to support him and this is almost impossible to fight against it.
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Nope, you're drifting off the topic again. Stay on topic.

Doesn't God also have an army? Are they that powerless?
 
While we're on Jesus, are we alone in the Universe?

If so, why the whole big thing for just us?

If not, are there intelligent beings on other planets?

If not, why not?

If there are intelligent beings on other planets do they have souls?

If not, why not?

If there are intelligent beings on other planets that have souls, are they saved?

If not, why not?

If there are intelligent beings on other planets that have are saved, how did this happen? (Jesus being the only route to salvation, of course.)

If there are intelligent beings on other planets that have are saved through accepting Jesus into their hearts, did he get born, live and die on each of these alien planets?

If not, why not?
 
RoboTimbo said:
Nope, you're drifting off the topic again. Stay on topic.

Doesn't God also have an army? Are they that powerless?
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Yes. We are all doomed. But at least we have the smug knowledge that we were right, even if it won't ever do anyone any good.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Doesn't God also have an army? Are they that powerless?
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"It is possible that God is on one side or the other. It is also possible that God is on neither side. It is not possible, however, that God is on both sides." A. Lincoln.

Evidently there were no real Christians in the US during the ACW. Otherwise God would have answered their prayers.

(I must get that quote from a German general used in "The Longest Day." "Sometimes I wonder who's side God is on." :D)
 
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