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#1 |
Scholar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 97
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Faith-Healer 'John of God' featured on CNN's AC360
CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta interviews Oprah Winfrey's hand-picked "skeptics" who went to see faith-healer 'John of God'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxF8ROlrDSs @ 3:00 in the video: Dr. Sanjay Gupta: "A lot of people out there claim that these types of things that John of God are doing is just quackery, just sleight of hand ... " Dr Jeff Rediger, M.D.: "I do believe that some of what goes on down there is sleight of hand, I also believe however, there are things that happen that cannot be explained by sleight of hand, so I have come to believe, somewhat reluctantly, and with difficulty figuring out how to accommodate this in my world view, that the world is a more mysterious place than I had understood." I think it's amazing that in this day and age, educated people -- faced with something they can't easily figure out -- (even if from a known trickster) will automatically attribute it as possibly supernatural. One would think that in the 30+ years that this world-famous faith-healer has been in operation, there must have been at least some degree of objective analysis of his incredible claims. But this news show seems to treat him as if he is some complete unknown who just stepped into the limelight: a newly discovered 'phenomenon' that deserves additional study.It's a shame that CNN could not find a real skeptic to go on the show opposite these two gullible people. So, the show leads us to believe, that because this stage performer has apparently not (yet) been 100% dis-proven, his claims of paranormal ability need to be taken seriously. |
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#2 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,673
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Can't the nitwit producers of these shows apply Google to the word skeptic? Almost any mouse-click would yield a better choice than the ones they put on the air.
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#3 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,423
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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#4 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,673
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#5 |
Grammaton Cleric
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
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Why would I take a medical doctor's word on whether something is sleight of hand? So stupid.
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"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain. |
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#6 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,459
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What John of God does isn't magic tricks, it's flat out ********. He jams metal objects up noses, shines lights, scrapes eyeballs, and makes incisions in a non-sterile environment. John of God doesn't have enough self-respect to learn something as cool as sleight of hand.
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#7 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 201
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I was just going to post this. Why doesn't the harvard educated professor present his information in a scientific way? I mean, it should be easy to prove what powers John of God has or doesn't have. I would like to see it.
He hinted there was evidence people were being healed, but didn't show any lol. My uncle's friend took their child to him. The child suffers from all kinds of debilitating problems from what I know. I don't know what ones exactly. But the kid was not healed or cured by John of God. |
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#8 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 95,187
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It is a mistake to think an intelligent educated person, even a practicing neurosurgeon like Gupta, have learned much about rational and irrational views of the Universe.
On the other hand, a physician has a dilemma when it comes to challenging false beliefs. If one is too blunt the patient will leave and fail to be helped by scientific evidence based medicine. So quite often physicians adopt the position of not challenging people's beliefs. |
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#9 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,333
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Remember, Gupta is also a proponent of "Facilitated Communication" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication).
Ward |
__________________
~~Na eth'er aa, ammre' en ank'aar'eith, d'emner'aa-, asd'reng'aather, em'n'err-aae...~ - Alenara Al'Kher'aat, aged 347 |
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#10 |
Scholar
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 97
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We can be sure it was no accident that only "woo-woo" people were picked to appear on the Oprah Winfrey show. It seems that these TV shows always manage to dredge up some doctorate-degreed kook, who can then be paraded about, as if to dress up these wacky ideas with the stamp of legitimacy.
One would think that virtually every MD would recognize such things as placebo effect, controlled studies, and the concept of efficacy - all things related to standard scientific methodologies. But such rational thinking is alien to Dr. Jeff Rediger. Instead he spouts the nonsense of thinking "Gee, I can't figure it out -- It might very well be magic." The sad part is that these irrational "kook doctors" like Jeff Rediger can enjoy a rich career on the TV talk show circuit, a place where any normal, level-headed MD would rarely - if ever - appear. Another factor is that the "alternative medicine" industry has for a long time has been filling people's heads with loud accusations that all doctors are corrupt (not just "ignorant"), and the FDA and drug companies conspire to run a scam. Many people seem to believe this, and refuse to trust the official medical establishment. And for those in the middle, MDs must be careful they don't do anything to alienate them, and push them squarely into the fold of quack medicine. |
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#11 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,741
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Cnn Embraces Woo (John of God)
I know I shouldn't be surprised by these things. Long story short, a reporter from CNN went down to South America to witness a supposed faith healer, and appears totally smitten. I guess there really is a sucker born every minute:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fg269kzIiE ETA: Here is James Randi's take on the guy. I had never heard of him before today. |
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#12 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 37,702
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Ah, well, if you mention "God", you see, it means it is religion and not woo, right?
For example, yesterday when I switched on the telly I caught a few seconds of a children's programme explaining the origins of the Christmas tree - they said it wasn't really part of the traditional British Christmas, but was an imported German tradition, "based on a superstition". ![]() |
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"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
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#13 |
Intellectual Gladiator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,948
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This is one reason why I no longer watch TV or cable
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Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We ****** up the air, the water, we ****** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?" -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness |
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#14 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 309
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I love this kind of "quality" journalism. The more I read about it the more disgusted I get. The thing that irritates me most about cases like this, is that so many people seem to think that they are too rational or too educated to be fooled by woo, and therefore, the BS they were fed with simply can't be woo.
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#15 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,295
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Dr. Jeff is not just any old psychiatrist.
Quote:
At least Dr. Sanjay isn't the current Surgeon General. Science-Based Medicine rated his book a 5 on the quackometer scale. |
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#16 |
Trurl's Electronic Bard
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,757
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These media outlets should try harder to differentiate between entertainment (or even advertising) and news or investigation. I guess the public really wants their investigative reporting to be in the form of anecdotes, glorification of flim-flam, and supernatural explanations for ordinary magic tricks.
I know it's anecdotal but here's something written by someone on Oprah's blog: Posted: Tue 12/14/2010 9:40 PM wintryweather : I personally know a boy, diagnosed with inoperable brain cancer at age 11, who visited John of God twice. Both times John told him emphatically - without any hesitation or conditions - that the boy would be healed. He was not, and died this past spring at the age of 13. Do you not see that J of G has rigged it so he is always right? If someone improves, or is healed, he takes credit even if they were seeking more conventional medical treatment, as many do. If the person dies, J of G can claim that it's because they didn't do their "40%" as he mentions in the article. He's covered either way. It's a scam! ( Source: http://www.oprah.com/spirit/Spiritua...od-Susan-Casey ) |
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"Suppose you're thinking about a plate of shrimp. Suddenly someone will say, 'Plate' or 'Shrimp' or 'Plate of shrimp,' out of the blue... It's all part of the cosmic unconsciousness." -- REPO MAN ![]() LondonJohn: "I don't need to cite." Rolfe: "I really hate lawyers." |
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#17 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 309
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There appears to be two threads on this subject. Here is the other one:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=195627 |
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#18 |
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 8,004
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Aargh.
I guess what bothers me is the message that 'John of God' represents a viable alternative to traditional medical care - especially for the poor. I don't see lines of wealthy people lining up, abandoning their cat scans and hospital care. Is this Oprah's personal doctor? Oh no but what a blessing he must be for those unfortunates who can't afford regular health care. Encouragement to superstitious nonsense by those who should know better. |
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#19 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,333
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This is the subject of Randi's latest SWIFT entry:
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...r-blunder.html Ward |
__________________
~~Na eth'er aa, ammre' en ank'aar'eith, d'emner'aa-, asd'reng'aather, em'n'err-aae...~ - Alenara Al'Kher'aat, aged 347 |
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#20 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 13,215
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I'm surprised that almost no one has mentioned that "John of God" is perpetrating almost exactly the same sort of quackery as his predecessor, "Arigo" or "Arigo of the rusty knife".
Yes, the very same eyeball scraping, rusty-knife incising.... Etc. All about 35 years ago when a credulous book was produced under the title "Arigo of the Rusty Knife". His particular scam included the generation of unintelligible "prescriptions" written on scraps of paper. No one could read them...Except for his brother, the pharmacist. A few bottles filled with colored water sold for outrageous prices furnished the money aspect of the scam. |
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#21 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,741
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That one faith healer guy that James Randi caught in the 70s getting info through his ear piece (can't remember his name) was back at it again like 20 years later. These things are forgotten pretty fast.
I don't know what it is about this CNN clip, but it makes me madder than hell. |
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#22 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 243
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#23 |
New Blood
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2
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The popular media has one simple mission - to make money. It does this by attracting readers/viewers because lots of readers/viewers = increased advertising revenues.
News editors and producers know very well that the vast bulk of the population is both supersticious, suggestible and more than willing to believe in the paranormal. They know that the debunking of faith healers, psychics, religious leaders and such like has limited appeal. Most people want to be astounded. Most people want to believe something's going on that boring old science can't explain. The editors/producers know this because they themselves have the same needs, or their family and friends do. There's a saying in journalism: Know when to stop asking questions. Standing a story up is what's important - and standing up a story that's got the ingredients to attract readers/viewers can be a matter of survival in a very compettive industry. Finding out the truth of a matter is simply not on the agenda if it means a "good" story may fall flat. |
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#24 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,377
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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