Hoagland Debunked!

Folks:

After many years, I have finally decided to take on Richard Hoagland's nonsense about Mars. He has been relentless with his rubbish on "Coast to Coast AM" over the past few months, and I couldn't stand it any more.

The opening page is http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/index.html
and from there you will find several more taking on the "Face", the
"City", his generic, bizarre conspiracy claims, and even his claims
about his credentials.

Enjoy.

Go man go!

Some won't listen to reason no matter what you say but it is important to not let these things go unchallenged.

I read your page and I hope you'll keep us posted.

You are fighting a very very uphill battle against stupidity and i wish you alll the best.

You should fix this typo, though.

"Who's Conspiracy Is It, Anyway?"
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/face.html

Are they still on about this?

I remember yonks ago, being at an SF convention and attending a lecture debunking the idea that the "face" was an alien artefact. It was the first I'd heard of it. I simply didn't understand why the speaker was bothering to debunk such an obviously silly idea. It was only towards the end of the talk that I realised that there were people who were really pushing the agenda that it was a deliberate carving of a face, and even then I couldn't see why it was worth wasting two seconds of brain-power on.

My family comes from an island where the tourist attractions include rocks shaped like a generic "face" (who it is depends on who the current villain is, my Dad says when he was a boy it was the Tzar of Russia), Queen Victoria, a crouching lion and a crocodile. Some of the rocks are painted to improve recognition, but others aren't, and none of them has been carved in any way at all. From the bay you can also see the summits of the Isle of Arran, which look for all the world like a recumbent figure wearing a helmet.

The human brain is programmed to see faces in even the simplest structures , like the bonnet of a car for example. And natural vegetable and rock formations which happen to resemble faces and indeed all sorts of things abound all over the world.

Why does this silly subject get even a passing mention?

Rolfe.

BA, do you think Hoagland actually believes this stuff? I've never heard him on the radio, but I used to post on the Free Enterprise Mission discussion forum a lot and am familiar with most of the Mars theories.

Art Bell's name comes up a lot over there, too. I have heard a couple of Art Bell's shows and I got the impression he doesn't really believe in any of that stuff. He just knows what sells. And he asks a lot of skeptical questions. Unfortunately, he was shilling Human Growth Hormone (HGH) very aggressively. I guess they pay his salary or something.

So I was just wondering if maybe Hoagland knows what sells. Or does he have the true-believer smell to him?

An excellent bit of work BA, well done.

I thought this was put to rest when on a follow up mission NASA was able to release higher resolution photos of the same area that show quite clearly that this is just a natural formation.

I guess that must have been part of a "cover-up", nudge-nudge, wink-wink.

Once people get an idea like this in their head, some will only look at what seems to support their case and ignore evidence that doesn't fit with their preconcieved notion.

If you could take them to Martian surface to see for themselves they'd just claim that the Government blew it up to destroy the evidence.

There are people that will dismiss this nonsense when presented with reliable data and fortunately there are people like BA who are qualified and willing to present the whole story.

Great stuff!

I just hope he doesn't cotton on to the fact that the jpg effects are often referred to as jpg artifacts.

You can see it now..."The proof, artifacts seen on images of Mars!"

Luke T. said:

So I was just wondering if maybe Hoagland knows what sells. Or does he have the true-believer smell to him?

Click to expand...

I've never heard the guy for more than a couple of seconds, so I can't say whether he really buys into this stuff or not. However....

There is an aspect in the character of many human beings that prevents them from making statements contrary to their interests. In other words, many people will say or believe what is in their interest to say or believe. If they make a living peddling bullplop, it is in their interest to believe in that bullplop, and so they will believe in it, even if shown that it is incorrect.

Many people find the alternative to be unbearably unpleasant. It may mean admitting that they were wrong or made mistakes. It may mean that they did a lot of work for nothing. It may mean admitting that they were fooled or that they were fools. It would mean that their credibility and professional standing could be ruined.

We all like to think that we have sufficient character to admit our mistakes if we're shown to be wrong. But the fact is that many of us find that a very hard thing to do.

I will cite one example. There is a certain individual who makes a substantial portion of his income as an expert witness in legal cases. And he truly is an expert, he is one of the best in his field, he is highly regarded, and he deserves his excellent reputation. But several years ago, he made some glaring mistakes in a high-profile case, and a group of other expert witnesses pointed out his errors. Rather than admit his mistakes (which would be used against him in every cross-examination in every future legal proceeding in which he was an expert), he continued to stick by his guns and to this day continues to assert that all of the other experts were wrong and he was right. Does he believe that he is right? I think so, and I think he really believes it because it is in his interest to believe it.

Blue Monk said:

I thought this was put to rest when on a follow up mission NASA was able to release higher resolution photos of the same area that show quite clearly that this is just a natural formation.

Click to expand...

From the "Face the Face" page on the site BA linked to....

This hasn't stopped Hoagland, of course. He protested the way the image was processed, the way it was released, they method used to take it, the methods not used to take it, anything to distract from the fact that no matter what, it just doesn't look like a real face.....

Another point people don't seem to consider is that, had we had the better-resolution images first, no one would have given that hill a second look. It's resemblance to a face is great at lower res, but at higher res it's just a hill. I think this is not only a valid point, but a very salient one: Hoagland's arguments don't work backwards. If it doesn't look like a face in a higher-resolution, early image, and does in a lower-resolution later image, then he has no leg to stand on. So why should anyone listen to him if the order is swapped?

Click to expand...

Nothing stops the true believer it seems.

Rolfe.

Rolfe said:

Nothing stops the true believer it seems.

Click to expand...

Brother, you said a mouthfull.

I had recently read an insult-laden attack on Hoagland and his Martian mythology. It was actually quite extensive and asserts deductive reasoning methods to debunk.

Here's the URL: http://pages.prodigy.net/markrm/liar5.html

BUT, note that the authors, collectively self-named data.BUG are the flip side of conspiracy theory, the Illuminati/trilateral commission/Skull&Bones/FreeMasons Chicken Littles. It seems they despise the government alien coverup people more than we do.

B_A, dude it's about time . I mostly enjoy the Coast to Coast radio show, you can hear some really smegged up crap on there and it can be very entertaining (as you know). Though I am probably entertained in a completely different way from the love and light audience CtoC has.

Hoagland is on CtoC often, and is a great guest. He knows how to speak and he does it; often. There is always something new for him to go on about. Mars, hyperdimentional physics, 19.5 degrees off the horizion means this NASA ledership group has a connection to that ancient Egyptian religion/belief and that is why they launched this probe on this date at this time while this constellation is 33 degrees off from the first 19.5 degrees; which as we all know Art means . . . . bla bla bla Did I mention that I was a science advisor for Walter Cronkite?

Now I hear all this stuff and laugh my ass off. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions hear this and just eat it up as more evidence for whatever it is they are into.

Thanks for putting in the time and effort countering Hoagland's claims, I hope you continue to do so with him and many others who make vacuous claims.

Cheers B_A

***cheer BA***

If you want to know how to really peeve one of those Hoagland supporters, well, there's this tune called "Space Buggy" by "Asleep at the Wheel" that starts out "Scientists say there's men on Mars, ...."

For some reason, about two choruses in they start to think that you really, really don't agree with them. The look on the face, if they are of the sanctimonious "I know better than you woo" variety, is just precious.

Thanks for the kudos.

What Hoagland truly believes, only Hoagland knows. It doesn't make much difference to me; I'll debunk what he says.

HAHAHA Chariots of the clods.

Keep up the good work BadAs! What I think is that he has a lot invested in this theory. It seems not only to be a monetary importance to him, but it is pretty much the definition of who he is. He is the "face on Mars" guy. You are asking him to admit what he has based his very life on is in fact nonsense. It is! I think at one time he might have believed it, but now, he's have to go out and get a real job if he admitted this was unreal.

BA, have Bell or Noory(sp?) ever had you and Hoagland on together? That would be a show I'd definitely stay up to hear.

BA,

You rock!

no, you see the mars people are in the process of dismantling their work because they were found out....


That is good work BA, I enjoyed your book too.


Virgil

Very nice work BA. I often imagine the scientists pouring over the newly transmitted data and photos each night advancing science by leaps and bounds. Now I also imagine some guy, barely in touch with reality, pouring over the same photos looking to set back that same science.

Congratulations!

Having these arguments and the pictures avaliable on a single place makes life easier when the Mars "faces and pyramids" enter to the talk.

BTW, are you sure you are not a MIB?