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Tags "A Song of Ice and Fire" , George R. R. Martin

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Old 12th March 2011, 10:09 PM   #81
Madalch
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
There is simply no way that the Three-Eyed Crow can not be the Bloodraven. He wargs the ravens and when he was Hand of the King, he used them the way Varys uses the boys taken from Pentos to be used in the walls of the Red Keep.
I have to re-read those books. I have no idea who the Three-Eyed Crow or the Bloodraven are.
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Old 12th March 2011, 11:19 PM   #82
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The TEC first appears to Bran in his dreams after he is thrown from the window by Jaime after he catches Jaime and Cersei having sex. He appears literally as a three-eyed crow in dreams where Bran is falling and urges him to fly or die. He also appears to the son of Howland Reed, Lord of Greywater Watch, Jojen Reed. Howland and Jojen are Crannogmen who live in the swamps and marshes above the Neck separating north and south Westeros. Jojen has "green dreams" which are prophetic. The TEC first appeared to Jojen after he almost died of greywater fever. Jojen dreamed of a winged wolf in chains trying to be broken free by the TEC and when he told his father Howland of it, he and his sister were sent to Winterfell to aid Bran.

The TEC is almost certainly Lord Brynden Rivers, known as the Bloodraven, the legitimized bastard of Aegon IV and Mylessa Blackwood. Rivers is mentioned only in passing by Maester Aemon in AFFC, Rivers was Hand of the King to Aegon V and was then imprisoned and sent to the Wall where he rose to Lord Commander. Rivers plays a more prominent role in GRRM's Dunk and Egg series.

You can read more about him here...

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Brynden_Rivers

Here's a picture...

http://chronarda.ru/wiki/images/thum...ndenRivers.jpg
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Old 12th March 2011, 11:38 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
The TEC is almost certainly Lord Brynden Rivers

Why do you assume the Three-eyed Crow must be an actual person?
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Old 13th March 2011, 02:05 AM   #84
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Because Coldhands refers to him as one.
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Old 13th March 2011, 02:38 AM   #85
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Bloodraven is only mentioned in passing in the main series, it's small wonder most readers will not remember him. He's more important in the Dunk & Egg novellas, as kitakaze said, and even appears in person (though it's not said outright that it's him but all evidence points to it) in the third story, The Mystery Knight.
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Old 13th March 2011, 03:24 AM   #86
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IIRC, the Sand Snakes, the bastard daughters of Oberyn Martell, were mentioned only in passing in SoS and then had major roles in AFFK.

I can not wait to find out what the heck is going on beyond the wall.
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Last edited by kitakaze; 13th March 2011 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 13th March 2011, 08:37 PM   #87
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One thing I am really interested in is the developing situation in Oldtown. Marwyn the Mage is on his way to Dany aboard the Cinammon Wind after bringing Samwell to him. Sarella Sand is serving him in the Citadel posed as Alleras the Sphinx. Jaqen H'Ghar is with them posing as Pate. Marwyn must know that he has a Faceless Man there. He saw Sam's coming in the flame of his obsidian candle, so it stands to reason he could have seen Jaqen's movements as the Alchemist then replacing Pate. He has the key from Archmaester Walgrave that can open every door in the Citadel, so what does he mean to do with it?

Could it be that Marwyn has hired a Faceless Man to assist him against the Grey Sheep (being the archmaesters who seek to destroy magic and brought about the end of the Targaryen dragons)?
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Old 14th March 2011, 07:17 AM   #88
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I wanted Cold Hands to be Benjen, but I thought Bran ruled it out. The way you've made a case for it though reignites my suspicions.

I never even thought about the Bloodraven. This will be good to keep in mind when I read the series for a third time, thank you.

I also need to read the new Dunk and Egg story. Martin seems to shine the best at writing short stories, it's a shame he wasn't able to do the screenplays for each of the HBO episodes.
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Old 14th March 2011, 07:25 AM   #89
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I really want to learn about the Children of the Forest. Was the tiny old prophet woman one of them, do you think? I wonder if they are like some kind of fae folk, I like to think of them as small but lithe, and quite a bit like I imagine the sidhe, sort of.

I've always seen above all the dichotomy between Ice and Fire as the struggle between the gods of the Others, and the fire gods of Melisandre. I like how Martin has real supernatural gods it seems, but a world of man made ritual and religion as well. In that, it's hard to know what is merely myth and ritual, and what is real. The Seven I think has no basis at all in supernatural fact, and is more a tradition, much like I view Christianity.

It seems the Lord of Light is one of the real gods, and fire and life. The dragons and obsidian seem direct icons of this power. The ice and the wights and the Others seem pretty obvious, but I wonder at the Old Gods of the North, the trees and the Children. Is this a third supernatural faction, or is there more than good and evil, and both ice and fire has the ability to be both. Perhaps the Old Gods are the more positive aspect to the Ice, and the others an example of their wroth? Melisandre's shadows are a good example of the evil that fire can bring.

I may be off in my own world of supposition, but I love how Martin leaves the world and it's agencies so ambiguous, and that we even need to ask these questions.

I also wonder if Martin has thought much about the planet and the science of a world with the seasons of this series. The arbitrary nature of the seasons made me wonder if the length of their years were the same as ours when I first read the series, and this had me thinking about the age of the children and how they looked in very different ways at first.

Last edited by Halfcentaur; 14th March 2011 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 14th March 2011, 08:57 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Halfcentaur View Post
I also wonder if Martin has thought much about the planet and the science of a world with the seasons of this series. The arbitrary nature of the seasons made me wonder if the length of their years were the same as ours when I first read the series, and this had me thinking about the age of the children and how they looked in very different ways at first.
I got the impression that there was something weird about the planet's orbit and/or rotation that caused long winters. Originally I thought that was due to an impact event and that was what destroyed Valyria, but the times don't match up as they were having long winters in prehistoric times. Maybe there's another planet in an eccentric orbit that occasionally comes by and either causes a wobble in the solar orbit (a la Pern) or a really long eclipse?

But then there's this "Shadow" thing, what's that? A second moon in geostationary orbit on the other side of the world from the main action?
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Old 15th March 2011, 06:25 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Marwyn the Mage... tutored Mirri Maaz Durr who killed Dany's unborn child.
That's not a prediction -- Mirri spelled out in Book 1. You just don't hear about Marwyn again until Book 4.
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Old 15th March 2011, 10:30 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I got the impression that there was something weird about the planet's orbit and/or rotation that caused long winters. Originally I thought that was due to an impact event and that was what destroyed Valyria, but the times don't match up as they were having long winters in prehistoric times. Maybe there's another planet in an eccentric orbit that occasionally comes by and either causes a wobble in the solar orbit (a la Pern) or a really long eclipse?

But then there's this "Shadow" thing, what's that? A second moon in geostationary orbit on the other side of the world from the main action?
I really hope he has indeed considered things like this. It's endless fun to speculate.
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Old 15th March 2011, 12:25 PM   #93
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As far as I know, GRRM stated that the cause for the long seasons is supernatural, so I'm afraid weird orbits or the likes are out.

I'm also unsure that Rh'llor really exists. Sure, Melisandre and Thoros have real power... but it could just be some form of magic that has nothing to do with the existence of the actual god. In fact, I kinda hope that this is the case.
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Old 15th March 2011, 12:35 PM   #94
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Man, I need to re-read this series too!

And I always found Arya's story to be compelling for some reason. I am looking forward to hopefully hearing more about her story.
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Old 15th March 2011, 12:49 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
As far as I know, GRRM stated that the cause for the long seasons is supernatural, so I'm afraid weird orbits or the likes are out.
Hmmm. Drat.


Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
As far as I know, GRRM stated that the cause for the long seasons is supernatural, so I'm afraid weird orbits or the likes are out.

I'm also unsure that Rh'llor really exists. Sure, Melisandre and Thoros have real power... but it could just be some form of magic that has nothing to do with the existence of the actual god. In fact, I kinda hope that this is the case.
I think Rh'llor is merely a ritualized facet of something, indeed.
Whatever it is it's also connected with dragons and the volcanic obsidium. I don't think it really matters if it's a defined and personified entity or a specific force, it's still something tangible and somehow in opposition with the force of ice. Whereas I think something like the Seven is merely a cultural institution with no foundation outside of philosophy.

It's strange that they both seem to animate the dead in some manner. Cat and Dondarrion seem an example for fire, and the walkers an example for the powers connected with Ice. The difference is that Fire seems to instill pale life of some sort, with consciousness, and ice seems to create more of an undead sort of mindless rotting revenant.

And then there's the temple where Arya has been training at the moment.

Perhaps all these forces and gods are all facets of one thing, but there seems a clear dichotomy in opposition that supersedes the others.
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Old 15th March 2011, 03:43 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by LarianLeQuella View Post
Man, I need to re-read this series too!

And I always found Arya's story to be compelling for some reason. I am looking forward to hopefully hearing more about her story.
I very much agree.

I think we can rest easy that the blindness induced by the Kindly Man is not permanent. In Arya's second chapter in AFFC she notes that the youngest acolyte of the House of Black and White is blind and the KM explains to her that he has the warmth of the candles and the scent to guide him in his duty with them. An acolyte of the Many-Faced God is a Faceless Man in training and a blind FM is not going to be of much use as an assassin. The blindness is put on her after she returns to the temple to serve for three days and tells the KM that she murdered Dareon the singer who deserted the Night's Watch. It seems obvious that the blindness is temporary and meant to hone her other senses.

It is interesting to note that since becoming separated from each other, both Arya and Nymeria have become vicious killers. I wonder if they will ever be reunited. Nymeria is leading a huge pack of wolves that is terrorizing the river lands and Arya is across the Narrow Sea in Braavos becoming a FM. I would love for them to be reunited, but what would be really cool is Arya being reunited with Jaqen H'Ghar. Depending on what is happening in Oldtown, it just might happen.
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Old 16th March 2011, 04:03 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
It is interesting to note that since becoming separated from each other, both Arya and Nymeria have become vicious killers. I wonder if they will ever be reunited. Nymeria is leading a huge pack of wolves that is terrorizing the river lands and Arya is across the Narrow Sea in Braavos becoming a FM. I would love for them to be reunited, but what would be really cool is Arya being reunited with Jaqen H'Ghar. Depending on what is happening in Oldtown, it just might happen.
I hadn't quite thought of it like. It seems to be the sort of thing that seems evident now.
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Old 16th March 2011, 07:09 AM   #98
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I'm waiting for the Clegane vs. Clegane match up. It's going to be epic. I think it has to happen, to complete The Hound's redemption.

I don't want to harsh anyone's buzz, but the book that's definitely going to be published in July is not finished yet. Keep that in mind.
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Old 16th March 2011, 07:22 AM   #99
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Cool

Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
I don't want to harsh anyone's buzz, but the book that's definitely going to be published in July is not finished yet. Keep that in mind.

FU! My buzz is like totally gone now dude.


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Old 16th March 2011, 07:42 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by LarianLeQuella View Post
FU! My buzz is like totally gone now dude.




Sorry, but this turd has done this to us before. I just want to soften the sting when July comes and we're all left holding our dicks instead of the book. I really hope I'm wrong, but if he's still writing, that means there's a lot of work to be done between now and the absolutely definite hard-as-Howie's-abs release date.

I'm a pessimist. My glass of Dornish Red is always half-empty.
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Old 16th March 2011, 07:55 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post


Sorry, but this turd has done this to us before.

He has? I don't recall any instances where GRRM, himself, has given a specific release date and not followed through on it.
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Old 16th March 2011, 08:12 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by ZirconBlue View Post
He has? I don't recall any instances where GRRM, himself, has given a specific release date and not followed through on it.

I was using the royal "turd".

Seriously, though, when everyone else in the world (except you, apparently) sees a publication date, they figure the author had something to do with it. Heck, Amazon was taking pre-orders several years ago. Do you suppose they were just doing that on a whim? Or did Martin tell them, "OK, fellas, get the money shovels out, I'm almost done!"?

Like he's doing right now...

Martin is The Boy Who Cried "BOOK!"
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Old 16th March 2011, 08:31 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
As far as I know, GRRM stated that the cause for the long seasons is supernatural, so I'm afraid weird orbits or the likes are out.
What about "the Shadow", though? Asshai is "under" it. I really like the idea of a moon permanently eclipsing part of the planet. But I guess it could mean a really tall mountain or range of mountains, or a very constant cloud cover. Or be metaphorical, which would be boring. Or, I guess, "the Shadow" could be the name of a person or group who runs the place!
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:02 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
I'm waiting for the Clegane vs. Clegane match up. It's going to be epic. I think it has to happen, to complete The Hound's redemption.
I must really read the books again - I thought the Hound died?
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:05 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by IDB87 View Post
I must really read the books again - I thought the Hound died?
He's the guy digging the grave at the monk's retreat that Brienne and her companions visit.

The Elder Brother claims he buried The Hound, but I don't think so, myself.

This is just my theory.
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:06 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
He's the guy digging the grave at the monk's retreat that Brienne and her companions visit.
Right, but the symbolism is that the Hound is dead.

What's to redeem?
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:16 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by IDB87 View Post
Right, but the symbolism is that the Hound is dead.

What's to redeem?
OK, so he's not "The Hound" anymore. I should have said Sandor's redemption.

I have some other nits here, should you fancy picking them.
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:23 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
OK, so he's not "The Hound" anymore. I should have said Sandor's redemption.

I have some other nits here, should you fancy picking them.
I do have a few hours to kill - feel free to catalog them and PM them all to me.

But I've always kind of hoped that Sandor and Sansa would shack up. Beauty and the beast cliche

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Old 16th March 2011, 09:27 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by IDB87 View Post
I do have a few hours to kill - feel free to catalog them and PM them all to me.

But I've always kind of hoped that Sandor and Sansa would shack up. Beauty and the beast cliche

Don't give up.

Stay with me, now.

*Sandor gets all holy at the monk's place
*Sandor kills FrankenGregor in single combat
*Sandor gets knighted by whoever is in charge at this point
*Sansa, now able to see that life isn't just a tourney, sees beyond Sandor's horribly scarred exterior and falls in love with him, because he now represents what a "true" knight should be
*PROFIT!
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:28 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
Don't give up.

Stay with me, now.

*Sandor gets all holy at the monk's place
*Sandor kills FrankenGregor in single combat
*Sandor gets knighted by whoever is in charge at this point
*Sansa, now able to see that life isn't just a tourney, sees beyond Sandor's horribly scarred exterior and falls in love with him, because he now represents what a "true" knight should be
*PROFIT!
Take all of my money.
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Old 16th March 2011, 11:55 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
Heck, Amazon was taking pre-orders several years ago. Do you suppose they were just doing that on a whim?
To be honest... yes, I think they were. They've done that plenty of times before, for other books. My guess is that if anyone is feeding them dates, it's the publisher, not the author.

Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
*Sandor gets knighted by whoever is in charge at this point
BZZT! Sandor does not want to be a knight. When he's accepted into the Kingsguard, he even says that he will not be knighted. Another Kingsguard protests to that, but Sandor just silences him with a raspy one-liner and a glare.
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Old 16th March 2011, 12:00 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
*Sandor gets all holy at the monk's place
That would explain his sudden interest in a child.

(Yes, I know, she's grown to be of a weddable age, but still....)
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Old 16th March 2011, 12:04 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Madalch View Post
That would explain his sudden interest in a child.

(Yes, I know, she's grown to be of a weddable age, but still....)


Well, someone had to say it.
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Old 16th March 2011, 02:15 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
I was using the royal "turd".

Seriously, though, when everyone else in the world (except you, apparently) sees a publication date, they figure the author had something to do with it. Heck, Amazon was taking pre-orders several years ago. Do you suppose they were just doing that on a whim? Or did Martin tell them, "OK, fellas, get the money shovels out, I'm almost done!"?

Like he's doing right now...

Martin is The Boy Who Cried "BOOK!"
Well, I do recall several instances where a date would be set by Amazon, or Barnes & Noble, etc., only to have GRRM post a message saying "don't believe that date, the books nowhere near being finished." He even had a header message on his website for a very long time saying, "the book isn't done. Don't believe any dates you see unless I post them here." So, to me, his credibility is still pretty good.
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Old 16th March 2011, 07:48 PM   #115
Howie Felterbush
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
BZZT! Sandor does not want to be a knight. When he's accepted into the Kingsguard, he even says that he will not be knighted. Another Kingsguard protests to that, but Sandor just silences him with a raspy one-liner and a glare.
Ease off the buzzer there, kiddo. Sandor The Hound doesn't want to be a knight. Who knows what he wants now? He's not The Hound anymore, as ID887 pointed out. The Hound is at rest, according to the Elder Brother. New and Improved Sandor Clegane might have a whole new outlook on knighthood. Really, it's no more farfetched than the whole "Who are Jon Snow's parents?" speculation game, now, is it?
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Old 16th March 2011, 07:49 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Madalch View Post
That would explain his sudden interest in a child.

We'd better tell Podrick Payne to keep a firm grip on the soap, as well.
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:15 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post


Sorry, but this turd has done this to us before. I just want to soften the sting when July comes and we're all left holding our dicks instead of the book. I really hope I'm wrong, but if he's still writing, that means there's a lot of work to be done between now and the absolutely definite hard-as-Howie's-abs release date.

I'm a pessimist. My glass of Dornish Red is always half-empty.
He claims this hasn't been done before.
Quote:

Yes, I know. You've all seen publication dates before: dates in 2007, 2008, 2009. None of those were ever hard dates, however. Most of them... well, call it wishful thinking, boundless optimism, cockeyed dreams, honest mistakes, whatever you like.

This date is different. This date is real.

Barring tsunamis, general strikes, world wars, or asteroid strikes, you will have the novel in your hands on July 12. I hope you like it.
And he also seems to have predicted the Japanese Earthquake. You'd better be careful.
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:16 PM   #118
Howie Felterbush
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
To be honest... yes, I think they were. They've done that plenty of times before, for other books. My guess is that if anyone is feeding them dates, it's the publisher, not the author.
Really? Do you really believe that? That the publisher, who, even more than us, wants Martin happy and writing, is going to make up a release date out of the blue? A decision that will cause their Golden Goose nothing but heartache and headaches? You don't think that maybe ol' George just fed them a date that seemed impossibly far into the future when he pulled it out of his ass, figuring in his mind that he'd for sure be done by then? C'mon, Morrigan, you're smarter than that. You're a freaking metal fan!

Originally Posted by ZirconBlue View Post
Well, I do recall several instances where a date would be set by Amazon, or Barnes & Noble, etc., only to have GRRM post a message saying "don't believe that date, the books nowhere near being finished." He even had a header message on his website for a very long time saying, "the book isn't done. Don't believe any dates you see unless I post them here." So, to me, his credibility is still pretty good.
He did that all right. After it became apparent that it wasn't going to happen and he got called on it by a few (hundred) people. C'mon, ZirconBlue, you're smarter than that. You're a freaking owl!
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:19 PM   #119
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You're a mean old evil cynic. And mean.
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:25 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Halfcentaur View Post
He claims this hasn't been done before.
It hasn't. Oh yeah, except for the last time and the time before that. And the time after AFfC when it was going to be out in a year.

Sorry, y'all (Halfcentaur, Morrigan and ZB) I'm not pissing at you guys personally. Just a little nerd rage. This is like having a birthday on the 31st of February. It just never comes.
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