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Tags Jeffrey Epstein , Larry Krauss , rape charges , TAM 9

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Old 7th April 2011, 06:28 AM   #1
TsarBomba
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TAM 9 Speaker Lawrence Krauss in contrversy of his own making

Jeffery Epstein is a billionaire financier. He is also a friend of TAM 9 speaker Lawrence Krauss. He is also a convicted sex offender who spent time behind bars and is required to register as a sex offender.

He has given LOTS of money to various charitable causes through the years, especially charities related to scientific research, and apparently including donations related to Krauss' research.

According to Wikipedia, Epstein has a penchant for the ladies, but not just any ladies, he apparently especially likes underage ladies:

Quote:
In March 2005, a woman contacted Palm Beach police, concerned that her 14-year-old step-daughter had been taken to Epstein’s mansion by an older girl and been paid $300 after stripping to her panties and massaging the man while he masturbated. She had told him that she was 18 years old. She undressed but had left on her underwear. By 2011 at least 40 girls aged 13 to 17 had come forward with similar stories, some saying Epstein sexually assaulted them during the massage. Police started an 11-month undercover investigation of Epstein, followed by a search of his home. Subsequently, they alleged that Epstein had paid several escorts to perform sexual acts on him. Interviews with five alleged victims and 17 witnesses under oath, phone messages, a high school transcript and other items they found in Mr. Epstein's trash and home allegedly show that some girls were under 18, although some maintained to him at the time that they were of proper age.[A search of Epstein's home found numerous photos of girls throughout the house, some of whom had been interviewed earlier by the police. He had set up a system of young women recruiting other women for his massage services. Two housekeepers stated to the police that Epstein would receive massages every day whenever he stayed in Palm Beach. In May 2006, Palm Beach police filed a probable cause affidavit saying that Epstein should be charged with four counts of unlawful sex with minors and one molestation count. I His team of lawyers included Gerald B. Lefcourt, Alan Dershowitz and later also Kenneth Starr. Epstein passed a lie detector test in which he was asked whether he knew of the under-age status of the girls. They also questioned the credibility of the teenage accusers, based in part on their MySpace postings and information obtained by private investigators. Instead of following the recommendation of the police, the prosecutors considered the evidence weak and presented it to a grand jury, an uncommon procedure in non-capital cases. The grand jury returned only a single charge of felony solicitation of prostitution,[16][dead link] to which Epstein pleaded not guilty in August 2006.

In June, 2008, after pleading to a single state charge of soliciting prostitution, Epstein began serving an 18 month sentence. Following his release he was required to register as a sex offender
After the accusations became public, several parties returned donations they had received from Epstein, including Eliot L. Spitzer, Mark A. Green, Bill Richardson, and the Palm Beach Police Department.[ Harvard announced that it would not return any money.On June 18, 2010 Epstein's former butler, Alfredo Rodriguez, was sentenced to 18 months in jail for trying to sell a journal that recorded Epstein's activities.
As insinuated in the Wikipedia quote, Epstein apparently kept a diary of his dalliances, which also listed his friendships with the rich and powerful, including Bill Clinton and British royalty. He is also, according to the Wikipedia article, under active investigation by the FBI for potential federal charges related to underage prostitution crossing state/national lines.

Which brings us to Lawrence Krauss, esteemed TAM 9 speaker. In a recent story in the Daily Beast, Dr. Krauss is quoted:

Quote:
Renowned scientists whose research Epstein has generously funded through the years also stand by him. Professor Lawrence Krauss, a theoretical physicist and author of Quantum Man, has planned scientific conferences with Epstein in St. Thomas and remained close with him throughout his incarceration. "If anything, the unfortunate period he suffered has caused him to really think about what he wants to do with his money and his time, and support knowledge," says Krauss. "Jeffrey has surrounded himself with beautiful women and young women but they're not as young as the ones that were claimed. As a scientist I always judge things on empirical evidence and he always has women ages 19 to 23 around him, but I've never seen anything else, so as a scientist, my presumption is that whatever the problems were I would believe him over other people." Though colleagues have criticized him over his relationship with Epstein, Krauss insists, "I don't feel tarnished in any way by my relationship with Jeffrey; I feel raised by it."
The fact that Dr. Krauss is defending a convicted, registered, and admitted (by his plea of guilty) sex offender is somewhat off-putting to some members of the skeptical community (myself included). Rebecca Watson wrote a deconstruction of Dr. Krauss' defense of Epstein that is far better than anything I could write here.

The only thing that I would add is that "as a scientist" as Dr. Krauss says, perhaps he needs to look at the one really solid data point that we have--that Epstein, who hired a legal defense team that only a billionaire could afford--pled guilty to a sex offense and spent time in prison for it. Dr. Krauss dismisses this something unimportant, as if Epstein were offered probation or some slap on the wrist, but the fact remains that he agreed to a prison sentence.

Please discuss.
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Old 7th April 2011, 06:49 AM   #2
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Dr. Krauss, your cognitive dissonance is showing!

He does a disservice to both science and the skeptical community by pulling the "I'm a scientist!" card and then proceeding to base his entire defense of that pig Epstein on seeing him occasionally with women that Krauss decides are of age.

Did Krauss have these ladies show IDs to determine their ages? Is Krauss around Epstein constantly? Does Krauss think Epstein would share info about his (Epstein's) underage dalliances with all his buddies? Why can't Krauss just admit that Epstein did something seriously, SERIOUSLY wrong and was convicted in a court of law?

What's worse is that Krauss is continuing to defend his comments (TsarBomba included the link to Rebecca Watson's post - you should definitely go read it and the comments).
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Old 7th April 2011, 07:56 AM   #3
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Quote:
but I've never seen anything else, so as a scientist, my presumption is that whatever the problems were I would believe him over other people
Yeah, that's some strong standards of evidence you got there, yup!
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Old 7th April 2011, 08:05 AM   #4
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It's pretty bad right enough, particularly the 'I'm not sure who the victim is here...' bullcrap.
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Old 7th April 2011, 08:28 AM   #5
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I am thinking that a number of interesting things might happen in relation to his TAM talk:

(1) Some pointed and embarrassing questions during the q and a after his talk; or will the JREF limit the topics of such questions to those that relate to the topic of his talk (I seriously doubt that the JREF would do that, though).

(2) A massive walk-out at the beginning of his talk by many of those offended by Dr. Krauss' comments and position, perhaps led by the Skepchicks?

(3). Perhaps Dr. Krauss bails on TAM to avoid this kind of thing?

I look foreword to seeing future developments.
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Old 7th April 2011, 08:56 AM   #6
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In my view, when asked an opinion on what clearly is a developing and less-than-savory situation, a few moments thought should have led to a "No comment" statement. Obviously there are facts on both sides and, given the media's penchant for hype, I suspect those facts aren't necessarily as originally reported.
"No comment" may seem like a cop-out, but it does give a public figure, who most likely was blind-sided with the question, some time to employ a bit of critical thinking on all aspects of the situation and then to follow-up with a more informed comment. And in my view the latter would be a necessary follow-up to a "No comment."
I trust my friends and have a lot of confidence in their integrity--or they wouldn't be my friends--but I'm not so naive as to think one of them couldn't do something that would shake that trust and confidence. In a situation like that, while my gut would be telling me my friend could do no wrong, I certainly wouldn't express uncritical support in a public forum until I took a little time to check out the facts on all sides.
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:00 AM   #7
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What happens with TAM will definitely be interesting.

Pretty sure there would be questions asked at TAM (I certainly can think of a few I would ask) and any attempt to limit those questions would not be viewed well by me.

It is get out the popcorn time....
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:04 AM   #8
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Very interesting ...

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Old 7th April 2011, 09:10 AM   #9
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His Defence:

Quote:
I have read on the web claims of orgies on Jeffrey’s island during scientific meetings that I organized.. Orgies in which I was supposed to have been involved. This kind of nonsense has made me very skeptical of media reports on Jeffrey’s activities. Moreover, I am naturally skeptical by nature, and have looked in to a number of these supposed events, but am not going to share any details with you because I don’t think these are issues that are relevant to Jeffrey’s support of science, my scientific credentials etc.. or that I should discuss in public in any case… I will say however, that as a skeptic you might ask yourself whether there might be any motivation to potentially sue a billionaire with whom you may have been involved in one way or another… someone who might rather settle out of court for a large fee rather than have to deal with publicity, sleazy journalists etc? no, that never happens does it? Not very skeptical of you to wonder I think..
http://skepchick.org/2011/04/lawrenc...ts-everywhere/
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:15 AM   #10
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I am thinking that Krauss is saying he hasn't seen any hard evidence of his friend paying young girls for sex, and he's skeptical of the sources.

What is the hard evidence against Epstein? What is the evidence that he knew the girls were underage? He obviously paid for sex, and there are enough young people around willing to take money for sex...

What is his main guilt... probably not making sure girls were 18. Go to jail, then try to make sure to ask for ID from then on...

0_o
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Last edited by Eos of the Eons; 7th April 2011 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:32 AM   #11
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Point is Krauss is making the same mistake so many scientists make. He thinks "I am so smart I can not be fooled". He is also using the word "Science" in his defense of his friend, when it is personal opinion (but as he's a scientist and smart, that opinion should count for more)

Randi has said over and over and over again, no one is easier to fool than someone that think he can't be fooled. Scientists tested Uri Geller and found his powers to be "real". When a scientist opens his mouth, what comes out isn't always science. But in this case Krauss would like us to believe it is. We should believe him as he's too "smart" to be fooled.

Media hype may play a part. But the court system I have "some" faith in. NOt a lot but the court is less influenced by "media hype" than one might suppose. I'm not into conspiracy theories also. The conspiracy theory here of "he was trapped and is a victim..." sounds a little too much like "the aliens are all hidden away". No, he doesn't have PROOF (because the other side has that if you look at the evidence and the diary), but he just KNOWS and we should believe him. Really, he DID see a bigfoot and since he's a responsible smart person we should just take his word for it. It just smacks of that.

Last edited by kittynh; 7th April 2011 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:36 AM   #12
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yeah and I hear a walk out is being planned...still...should be interesting and bringing popcorn.
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:45 AM   #13
Eos of the Eons
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Originally Posted by kittynh View Post
Point is Krauss is making the same mistake so many scientists make. He thinks "I am so smart I can not be fooled". He is also using the word "Science" in his defense of his friend, when it is personal opinion (but as he's a scientist and smart, that opinion should count for more)

Randi has said over and over and over again, no one is easier to fool than someone that think he can't be fooled. Scientists tested Uri Geller and found his powers to be "real". When a scientist opens his mouth, what comes out isn't always science. But in this case Krauss would like us to believe it is. We should believe him as he's too "smart" to be fooled.

Media hype may play a part. But the court system I have "some" faith in. NOt a lot but the court is less influenced by "media hype" than one might suppose. I'm not into conspiracy theories also. The conspiracy theory here of "he was trapped and is a victim..." sounds a little too much like "the aliens are all hidden away". No, he doesn't have PROOF (because the other side has that if you look at the evidence and the diary), but he just KNOWS and we should believe him. Really, he DID see a bigfoot and since he's a responsible smart person we should just take his word for it. It just smacks of that.
I can see some of that, in his ridiculous claim of observing and "guessing" the ages of girls Epstein surrounded himself with. We all know that personal observation is the worst kind of observation when dealing in "science" based evidence and data gathering. Does he think the skeptical community is that stupid? I found his statements on that insulting:

Quote:
“If anything, the unfortunate period he suffered has caused him to really think about what he wants to do with his money and his time, and support knowledge,” says Krauss. “Jeffrey has surrounded himself with beautiful women and young women but they’re not as young as the ones that were claimed. As a scientist I always judge things on empirical evidence and he always has women ages 19 to 23 around him, but I’ve never seen anything else, so as a scientist, my presumption is that whatever the problems were I would believe him over other people.
Has he bothered to look into other evidence? That would be my question. Maybe he can't face the facts in this case, and you're right, it's easier to slide into that dissonance.

He should just shut up, really, and not defend Epstein.
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:46 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by kittynh View Post

Media hype may play a part. But the court system I have "some" faith in. NOt a lot but the court is less influenced by "media hype" than one might suppose. I'm not into conspiracy theories also. The conspiracy theory here of "he was trapped and is a victim..." sounds a little too much like "the aliens are all hidden away". No, he doesn't have PROOF (because the other side has that if you look at the evidence and the diary), but he just KNOWS and we should believe him. Really, he DID see a bigfoot and since he's a responsible smart person we should just take his word for it. It just smacks of that.
Agreed. And, IMO, why would a billionaire like Epstein agree to a plea bargain which required him to go to jail and register as a sex offender if the prosecution did NOT have a compelling case? You would think, if he had done nothing wrong, he would have been willing to do whatever it took to fight the allegations.

And Krauss brought up the whole "he's a billionaire...people are out to take advantage of him" argument. Puh-leeze...we haven't seen Warren Buffett or Bill Gates being accused of things like this, have we?
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Old 7th April 2011, 10:00 AM   #15
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the weird part about the defense though has been many people aren't defending Krauss and his right to say whatever he wants. Freedom of speech and such. A lot of the "defense" has been "it's ok to sleep with underage girls". I mean, that's not the controversy is it? It's what Krauss SAID. And instead it appears to be what the billionaire donor DID that is being defended. Even Krauss didn't defend so much as try to explain away the behavior. I mean no need to tell us all in detail how you have slept with underage people, and when you were underage you slept with older people...(though no one has admitted to their parents getting paid for them to sleep with someone older, or having paid to sleep with someone younger, but give it time...). It's still a crime. So please dont' admit to it on the internet! Keeping your mouth shut is a good plan for not just Krauss but others!

Like I said, the defense of underage sex (for money in the case here) seems to be an interesting development that even Krauss wasn't willing to make. (He did say the girls looked 18 or 19, he didn't say "well yeah those girls were underage and sure he banged them! But that's ok! Because the current laws are wrong. Heck I banged a 15 year old just the other day and she is finally able to afford those braces she has needed!" I mean he DIDN'T...so it's funny the defense of Krauss has been a defense of behavior even Krauss doesn't agree is acceptable).
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Old 7th April 2011, 10:22 AM   #16
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So Krauss wouldn't defend sleeping with underage people, and wants to deny it even happened, but others are now saying it's okay to sleep with underage people, maybe even okay to exploit girls trapped in a sex ring?

Gawds.

I think others need to be put under a microscope...

Maybe Krauss is the lesser of many evils here...
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Old 7th April 2011, 10:27 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by kittynh View Post
But that's ok! Because the current laws are wrong. Heck I banged a 15 year old just the other day and she is finally able to afford those braces she has needed!"


I think that is the wrong thing to teach teenagers! You can make money as long as your ****able. When they are done getting money for sex... what are they going to do? The moral implication is that these kids won't be bettering themselves with education and such while they are young. They will be washed up wasted bodies, used up and messed up by the time they are 30. I sure would want better for my kids. And if these girls are trapped by pimps in a ring, then they should be getting help, not being used.
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Old 7th April 2011, 10:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by kittynh View Post
the weird part about the defense though has been many people aren't defending Krauss and his right to say whatever he wants. Freedom of speech and such.
Freedom of speech has nothing to do with this. Of course Dr. Krauss has the right to say anything he wants. There is no governmental agency attempting to prosecute or otherwise punish him for saying what he said. Nobody is trying to take him to court so enjoin him from making further statements. His free speech rights are not in any way implicated in this situation--indeed if they were I expect that almost all of those criticizing what he is saying would strenuously defend his right to say it.

Criticizing what Dr. Krauss does not impact his rights to say anything he wants to say, nor would uncomfortable questions at TAM, nor would an organized walkout, nor would an organized boycott of TAM (not that I would advocate for that, nor have I seen/heard anyone advocate for that).
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Old 7th April 2011, 10:31 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Eos of the Eons View Post


I think that is the wrong thing to teach teenagers! You can make money as long as your ****able. When they are done getting money for sex... what are they going to do? The moral implication is that these kids won't be bettering themselves with education and such while they are young. They will be washed up wasted bodies, used up and messed up by the time they are 30. I sure would want better for my kids. And if these girls are trapped by pimps in a ring, then they should be getting help, not being used.
:Eos Of The Eons

Eos, are you incapable of detecting irony?
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Old 7th April 2011, 12:09 PM   #20
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Well, Krauss is defending the behavior, in my view.

Quote:
I fully expect that these masseuses knew what they were doing, and were not swayed to do anything with Jeffrey that they were not already doing. That is not to approve of the whole behavior, but lots of peopleI know and like have behavior I don’t entirely approve of.. I know it is not politically correct to say that, because in general this is a very sensitive issue and all other things being equal one should take the side of the young women. But all things are not equal in this case, from my point of view. It is a judgement call, and I will not turn my back on a good friend so easily.
Sure, he says he "doesn't approve." That's pretty weak language, as if he was talking about a smoking habit, or a tendency to interrupt other people. At the same time, Krauss wants to make sure we know that those masseuses were dirty sluts who totally knew what they were doing, and if any of us have a problem with that attitude, it's because we're just being "politically correct."

Disgraceful.
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Old 7th April 2011, 02:01 PM   #21
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Cognitive dissonance?

If Krauss is sincere, it must be difficult to admit that a close friend has been partaking in such rather disgusting and abusive behaviour.
It's much more easier to pretend it does not happen. Denial is a tried and true way of dealing with cognitive dissonance...

He should, however, be called out on his lack of critical thinking. And, of course, his implicit support of Epstein.
Skeptics need to be consistent and not to go easy on either of them just because they tend to lean toward 'our' side...
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Old 7th April 2011, 03:12 PM   #22
Eos of the Eons
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Originally Posted by TsarBomba View Post
:Eos Of The Eons

Eos, are you incapable of detecting irony?
Sure, can you detect sarcasm?
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Old 7th April 2011, 04:56 PM   #23
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I do remember reading that James Randi said this....

Scientists are very easily deceived. They think logically, extrapolate possibilities from evidence presented, assume (with a good probability of being right) certain aspects of the observed data and draw upon their past experience in coming to decisions. This is to say that they act very much as all humans do, struggling with sensory input to derive new facts from it. But scientists do this with a certain authority and certainty born of their training and discipline. They are thus excellent candidates for being flimflammed by a clever operator who is aware of the fact that scientists seldom bring the human element into account.




As for a walk out, well MAYBE someone named Kitty mentioned doing that. And if other people want to join in, the Del Mar is just down the stairs past the giant horses ass (and no I don't mean the horses ass that is speaking!)
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Old 7th April 2011, 06:33 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by kittynh View Post
As for a walk out, well MAYBE someone named Kitty mentioned doing that. And if other people want to join in, the Del Mar is just down the stairs past the giant horses ass (and no I don't mean the horses ass that is speaking!)
It might also be a be a good time to check out the Skepchick/Surly-Ramics table. If the walkout happens, it could be quite an event.
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Old 7th April 2011, 06:53 PM   #25
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You know what would be really in-your-face kinda rude? Not just staging a walk-out, but planning a specific, fun activity for when he is going to speak. This could actively encourage others to leave the room, who might not otherwise do so.

It would have to be an activity that would not need a specific time appointment, because schedules could be shifted around and such. You never know if his presentation is going to be late or early or whatever. But, a general announcement along the lines of "Hey, whenever this scumbag Lawrence Krauss gets on stage, we're gonna have this trivia contest (or whatever the activity is) at this spot on the Casio floor (or wherever it is)".

As it stands, if the walk-out was merely just a "walk-out", followed by drinks in the bar, I would probably not bother doing it. I would rather sit in the room to hear what this schmuck has to say for himself. Though, I promise I would keep my arms folded and not applaud when he walks on stage, at least.

However, if there is going to be something genuinely interesting going on, as an alternative to hearing him speak, I might change my mind. Besides, there will likely be a DVD or YouTube video of it I can watch, later on, if it turns out that his presentation was legitimately fascinating.

It all depends on how over-the-top arrogant you want to be about the situation.
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Old 7th April 2011, 08:30 PM   #26
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Part of me would like to see Krauss squirm in the face of uncomfortable questions, but - honestly - he doesn't seem like the type who would squirm.

Therefore, I am all for an organized walkout from his talk (as suggested by kitty)...BUT with Wowbagger's added twist of an event to walk out TO. Perhaps said event could be used in some way as a fundraiser for victims of sex trafficking and rape?
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:21 PM   #27
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The noble side of me wants to be nowhere near Krauss while his TAM9 talk is taking place. As Dunstan says, disgraceful. And increasingly embarrassing for Krauss, though he may still not realize it.

The gossip whore side wants to be there when people start asking questions.

Tough choice.
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:28 PM   #28
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Old 7th April 2011, 09:30 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by saganite View Post
The noble side of me wants to be nowhere near Krauss while his TAM9 talk is taking place. As Dunstan says, disgraceful. And increasingly embarrassing for Krauss, though he may still not realize it.
Screw it. Let's go for ice cream during his talk. Sound good?

Quote:
The gossip whore side wants to be there when people start asking questions.

Tough choice.
Not for me, I'm not really into gossip. Besides, if there's a train-wreck, it'll all be recorded on the DVD and I can watch it as many times as I wish.
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Old 8th April 2011, 01:33 AM   #30
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Sad. Still don't know if I am going to TAM (darn you, life events!). This would not change my decision at all, though there is plenty of time for everyone involved to change their tunes or dig deeper as the case may be.

I'm not into causing a scene. While I might not listen to his talk, just more chance to talk to the other attendees would be enough incentive to head to the Del Mar (or ice cream or the pool or wherever). I would be surprised if an uncomfortable scene were to be included in the official DVDs. So which of you is volunteering to stay have their camcorder running and put it on youtube?

CT
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Old 8th April 2011, 06:12 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by CriticalThanking View Post
So which of you is volunteering to stay have their camcorder running and put it on youtube?

CT
Done.
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Old 8th April 2011, 07:03 AM   #32
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ohhh good plan! I didn't think about the QandA period!

Maybe we do need to stay and ask questions? But it would be nice perhaps not to purchase his book (I have to admit I'm a sucker and buy ALL the books of the speakers at TAM). Maybe tshirts with "Guess my age Dr.Krauss" might be fun. You never know, maybe he DID have advanced training at carnival side shows! He COULD be able to guess ages very well! (though obviously he didn't?). Whatever. But someone get it on Cam and I do hope they allow people with HARD questions the mike. Haveing participated in other conferences, in a situation like this, it's usually a good plan to have people with "soft" questions lined up beforehand. I don't wish any ill for TAM. But I do hope that they think twice or three times before inviting Dr.Krauss again unless he really clarifies his remarks. He's coming, he'll speak, from what I hear nothing anyone will do with bother him in the least as he's smarter than all of us, and you know...the rest of TAM will be lovely. You never know he could actually clarify, rather than dig himself deeper into a hole, his remarks before TAM.

This is an organization that has a flying pig as a logo! I believe this stuff can happen!
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Old 8th April 2011, 07:06 AM   #33
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This is going to be the new Shmingo, I can see it now...
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Old 8th April 2011, 07:24 AM   #34
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It seems that this billionaire has quite a few friends* that are sceptical, I just wonder how much such scepticism costs? $100,000, use of a private jet?

The only part of his "defence" that I think is credible is (from Eos's extract) this:

Quote:
...snip...


I have read on the web claims of orgies on Jeffrey’s island during scientific meetings that I organized.. Orgies in which I was supposed to have been involved. This kind of nonsense has made me very skeptical of media reports on Jeffrey’s activities.

...snip...
I'm sure that many of us have personal experience of the media flat out lying or making stuff up about events we were involved in so I can understand that if he thought that was the type of allegations being made about his friend he would hand-wave them away. But given the fuss this has kicked up he has to now know some of the unsavoury facts that cannot be hand-waved away as the media making stuff up.

Be interesting to see if his opinion changes.

*Such as the UK's Prince Andrew
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Old 8th April 2011, 09:00 AM   #35
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Darat from what I've heard Prince Andrew....would be friends with a rabid badger if said badger had some money to spare!
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Old 8th April 2011, 10:10 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by DundeeGirl View Post
fundraiser for victims of sex trafficking and rape?
The charity "Equality Now" comes to mind.
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Old 8th April 2011, 12:04 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Wowbagger View Post
You know what would be really in-your-face kinda rude? Not just staging a walk-out, but planning a specific, fun activity for when he is going to speak. This could actively encourage others to leave the room, who might not otherwise do so.

It would have to be an activity that would not need a specific time appointment, because schedules could be shifted around and such. You never know if his presentation is going to be late or early or whatever. But, a general announcement along the lines of "Hey, whenever this scumbag Lawrence Krauss gets on stage, we're gonna have this trivia contest (or whatever the activity is) at this spot on the Casio floor (or wherever it is)".

As it stands, if the walk-out was merely just a "walk-out", followed by drinks in the bar, I would probably not bother doing it. I would rather sit in the room to hear what this schmuck has to say for himself. Though, I promise I would keep my arms folded and not applaud when he walks on stage, at least.

However, if there is going to be something genuinely interesting going on, as an alternative to hearing him speak, I might change my mind. Besides, there will likely be a DVD or YouTube video of it I can watch, later on, if it turns out that his presentation was legitimately fascinating.

It all depends on how over-the-top arrogant you want to be about the situation.
I like your idea. If anyone wants to join me, I'll be at the Craps table rolling the bones during the Krauss presentation.
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Old 8th April 2011, 12:07 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by SkepticScott View Post
The charity "Equality Now" comes to mind.
Maybe the National Center For Missing And Exploited Children would be the most appropriate group. It is more focused on children than Equality Now.
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Old 8th April 2011, 12:21 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
Screw it. Let's go for ice cream during his talk. Sound good?
.
How can I resist an invitation like that? Done and done. I might be a sucker for gossip, but that's why Twitter was invented.

Originally Posted by CriticalThanking View Post
Sad. Still don't know if I am going to TAM (darn you, life events!). This would not change my decision at all, though there is plenty of time for everyone involved to change their tunes or dig deeper as the case may be.

I'm not into causing a scene. While I might not listen to his talk, just more chance to talk to the other attendees would be enough incentive to head to the Del Mar (or ice cream or the pool or wherever). I would be surprised if an uncomfortable scene were to be included in the official DVDs. So which of you is volunteering to stay have their camcorder running and put it on youtube?

CT
I hope you make it, CT. Screw life events!
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Old 8th April 2011, 12:29 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I'm sure that many of us have personal experience of the media flat out lying or making stuff up about events we were involved in so I can understand that if he thought that was the type of allegations being made about his friend he would hand-wave them away. But given the fuss this has kicked up he has to now know some of the unsavoury facts that cannot be hand-waved away as the media making stuff up.

Be interesting to see if his opinion changes.

*Such as the UK's Prince Andrew
Methinks that Professor Krauss dost protest too much. After doing a number of google searches, the only references to these orgies I could find were either related
to Dr. Krauss' own statement about the orgies or a few blog posts from circa 2006, but nothing (as far as I can see) in what could properly be called "the media."

What really seems to be going on is that Dr. Krauss is relying on a gut feeling about his buddy Epstein, and that he won't be swayed whatever the evidence might be to the contrary.

Btw--Darat, when are you going to start spelling "skepticism" and "defense" properly?
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