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#1 |
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Critical Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 408
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Exposing pedophile identities online - Internet Ethics
Is there an ethics subforum somewhere? I couldn't find it.
I don't have any questions about the legality of this site, because, hey, if you want to talk **** and someone hears you, word travels. DISCLAIMER: EU is not my site. Here's the site in question: http://evil-unveiled.com I've heard all sorts of objections about the site, but the one I'm most interested in is the "just because you can doesn't mean you should." Feel free to invoke Godwin's Law asap |
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"A Raccoon penis does not look like a dog penis. Ever. Because the bone." -robinson |
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#2 | ||
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Observer of Phenomena
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In my pants
Posts: 47,053
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Some men just want to watch the world burn - and I think we're dealing with one of them here this evening. - Senator Christine Milne, 30 October 2014 |
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#3 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,487
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I clicked around there for a bit.
My previous experience with the really enthusiastic internet pedo-hunters makes me suspect that quite a few of them are that way inclined themselves, and that working themselves into a froth of hatred about "out" pedophiles (and obsessing over quotes from them) is a kind of coping mechanism for them. This web site looks like more of the same in some places - I clicked on this link out of curiosity since it was the only Brisbane-area entry they had and I see no evidence there at all that the subject of the web page has done anything except some underage/underage gay sex and a lot of wanking. Yet nonetheless the people collating this info have engaged in "infiltration efforts" to obtain his personal information. Personally in this particular case I'm more worried about the internet vigilantes than I am about their target. That said some of their other web pages do focus on people with an actual history of child molestation so that objection is not a universal one. Speaking more generally the inevitable problem with paedophilia is that as a society we have this rule that once you've done your time you have a mostly-blank slate and are entitled to live a mostly-normal life as long as you behave yourself. However people's sexual orientation isn't actually so plastic that a few years in jail will reorient someone who is attracted to kids into someone attracted to adults. So there's quite justifiable concern that this category of offenders will re-offend and thus people justifiably want to know if a child sex offender has moved in next door. So the question is how we balance the risk of re-offending and people's desire to know about offenders against the offender's right (and I think they do have one) to live a mostly-normal life once they get out of jail if they behave themselves. I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect balance rather than an acceptable one but I am very sure that I don't want that balance decided on by internet vigilantes rather than by transparent social processes like courts. Overall I think the people running this site need a new hobby. |
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Thinking is skilled work....People with untrained minds should no more expect to think clearly and logically than people who have never learned and never practiced can expect to find themselves good carpenters, golfers, bridge-players, or pianists. -- Alfred Mander |
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#4 |
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Insert something funny here
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,018
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Since there's no oversight, I'd be very worried about mistaken identity, misunderstandings or people with a grudge against someone. Merely accusing someone of being, or hinting that they are, pedophiles can ruin someone's life completely.
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#5 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,679
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The main objection one could have is that it is a double whammy for those which were really accused and condemned of being pedophile. First get punished with prison, then get punished AGAIN
Secondly for those not condemned for pedophilia if you look at "our investigation" it is quite weak for those i clicked. Sometimes it is even ambiguous paragraph which make it more like they are ephebophile (liking teenager rather than pedohpile). It looks like it ain't really people PROVED to be pedophile. And it looks from the quality of evidence it is a very nice way to frame somebody (come on ! email addy ? Facebook page ? You are kidding me ??). Nore that I don't condone pedophilia, but i don't condone witch hunt either. |
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#6 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,371
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If such public warnings should be issued, it should, obviously, be on court order, as part of a verdict. No other system can ensure that people are not falsely accused, and of course, not even then can we be absolutely sure, but at least it will be on level with the rest of our justice system.
It should certainly not be left to private initiative. Then, one can ask, why not warn against rapists, violent people, notorious swindlers, repeated drunken drivers ("If you see this man driving a car, call the police!"), etc.? Hans |
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Don't. Just don't. |
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#7 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,679
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#8 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,486
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There's a good reason why justice should be left to the professionals and not carried out by mobs.
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“Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
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#9 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,371
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Don't. Just don't. |
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#10 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,755
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__________________
__________ Hiding from the
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#11 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: St. Leonards-on-Sea, E.Sussex, UK.
Posts: 1,123
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A lady paediatrician here in the UK was hounded out of her house, because the locals thought that she was a "paedo"!
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Leon Heller G1HSM |
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#12 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,487
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For those with 27m to kill, here's the wonderful Brasseye mockumentary, "Paedogeddon". Very relevant.
![]() Linky. |
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Thinking is skilled work....People with untrained minds should no more expect to think clearly and logically than people who have never learned and never practiced can expect to find themselves good carpenters, golfers, bridge-players, or pianists. -- Alfred Mander |
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#13 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,833
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"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them." (Mark Twain) |
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#14 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,833
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__________________
"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them." (Mark Twain) |
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#15 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,376
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__________________
When our individual interests and prospects do not seem worth living for, we are in desperate need for something apart from us to live for. All forms of dedication, devotion, loyalty and self-surrender are in essence a desperate clinging to something which might give worth and meaning to our futile, spoiled lives. - Eric Hoffer |
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#16 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 4,752
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I'm not sure you're refuting what Lowe suggested. Pointing out that "sex offenders" as a group do not have a high recidivism rate, is not a refutation of his suggestion that a particular category of sex offenders may re-offend. (I took his use of the phrase "this category of offenders" to refer to a narrower band than just "sex offenders" - i.e actual paedophiles.)
[I'm just going by your summary of the link, as the link itself doesn't seem to go anywhere.] |
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#17 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,205
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If someone molested my child I'd want to beat them to death with my own hands. If a past pedophile moved in to my neighborhood I'd want to drive him out with fire and dogs or else I couldn't sleep at night worrying about my kid.
However, I recognize that neither of these activities should be legal, and the latter is not even completely fair or rational. This stuff pushes our buttons and makes us stupid. The problem is HUGELY inflated by the utterly ridiculous way that peeing in an alley or having sex with your younger girlfriend can get you marked as a sex offender for life. You hear sex offender and it becomes pedophile in your brain. Why don't we have records for murderers and con men in neighborhoods? Why does some guy with an explosive murderous temper get to go withing 500ft of my child but creepy lip-licker can't? |
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#18 |
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Howling to glory I go
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,951
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I have a friend who's had a horrible time getting a job after a conviction for this. It was very much a case of a teenage girl at an adult party, consensual sex, and the mother found out and freaked. So he did time for statutory rape, has a felony record, and is pretty unemployable. He's also married to one of my best friends and I have no problems with him.
Hurray justice system! Bring on the vigilantes! Society isn't safe! |
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If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea. |
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#19 |
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Satan's Helper
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 34,736
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I have a question: If legal age of consent differs from state and you have sex with a 17 year old on the border between two states, one of them having an age of consent of 18 and the other one of 17, what next?
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"I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan" Carl Sagan |
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#20 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,679
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It is even worst than that. As far as I remember a few 16 year old giving their OWN naked picture got convicted as sex offender for "publishing paedophilia pornography".
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#21 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12,409
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__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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#22 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,679
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#23 |
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 188
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I live awfully near where it happened, was the triumph of ignorance over sense. I think they actually smashed up her house and car rather than hounded her out. Was sad to see though.
I think the age of consent should be 16 everywhere, lower or higher. Seems a reasonable age. That said obviously there are some social standards that make a 42 year old seeing a 16 year old, age of consent or not seem just weird. |
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#24 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
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I've got no problem with exposing pedophiles online so long as they are actual, convicted pedophiles. Don't want the whole world to know that you like to molest little kids? Well, not molesting little kids would be a good start.
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#25 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,679
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#26 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,233
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Considering that the "featured article" is about a guy who - despite being an admitted pedophile - gives no signs that he's actually molested anyone, I think this is a witch hunt.
Contrast this with Perverted Justice, who pose as kids in order to catch people who randomly message kids online and solicit them for sex. |
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#27 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,205
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Look, society has to have some balls and some honesty.
If they are truly an eternal danger than either: 1) Kill them. 2) Lock them away forever. 3) Stick them on a leper colony. What we should not do is tell someone "you've served your time and are free to go," and then deny them any chance at a life, and most probably force them to live under a bridge. |
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#28 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
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#29 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
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#30 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,205
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I'm inclined to killing only those that murder.
As far as letting people out you have to assume they won't re-offend otherwise don't let them out. So keep your urges in check and live your life like any other criminal that has served their time. If you can't then two strikes you're out, off to pedo island for life and hope you're not the one in the gingham dress. |
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#31 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,679
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#32 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The great American southeast
Posts: 7,886
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__________________
If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else. |
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#33 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
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#34 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,024
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Obviously you're unaware of the recent developments regarding the treatment of sexting as a sex offense.
Teens have been charged, and convicted, as sex offenders for doing something as simple as sending a topless picture of themselves to their boyfriend. I'd love to find the story I saw on the news here not too long ago (can't seem to find it, though) of the 14 year old boy who was being prosecuted as a sex offender for simply having received an unsolicited nude photo on his phone of a girl the same age at his school. Here's some background on the issue: http://news.cnet.com/8301-19518_3-10207408-238.html https://litigation-essentials.lexisn...3cf0eddf538b6b http://www.thelegality.com/2009/02/1...me-defendants/ |
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#35 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
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#36 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,024
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You agreed with someone who was making a comment about sex offenders/child molesters. These kids getting prosecuted for sexting are being prosecuted as sex offenders and child molesters (child pornography, of all things... ). So your comments would, since you didn't clarify, seem to apply to them as well.
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#37 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,205
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#38 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
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#39 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,024
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#40 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
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Perhaps you don't know what the word pedophile means. It is someone who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. So when I say pedophile that is what I mean.
And yes, I am aware that some people get put on sex offenders registries along with pedophiles for bs reasons. Has nothing to do with what I said though. I swear, people need to take reading comprehension classes. |
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