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Old 18th April 2011, 02:56 AM   #1
sillyhead
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Exposing pedophile identities online - Internet Ethics

Is there an ethics subforum somewhere? I couldn't find it.

I don't have any questions about the legality of this site, because, hey, if you want to talk **** and someone hears you, word travels.

DISCLAIMER: EU is not my site.

Here's the site in question: http://evil-unveiled.com


I've heard all sorts of objections about the site, but the one I'm most interested in is the "just because you can doesn't mean you should."


Feel free to invoke Godwin's Law asap
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Old 18th April 2011, 03:01 AM   #2
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Mod InfoMoved to Social Issues.
Posted By:arthwollipot
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Old 18th April 2011, 03:49 AM   #3
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I clicked around there for a bit.

My previous experience with the really enthusiastic internet pedo-hunters makes me suspect that quite a few of them are that way inclined themselves, and that working themselves into a froth of hatred about "out" pedophiles (and obsessing over quotes from them) is a kind of coping mechanism for them.

This web site looks like more of the same in some places - I clicked on this link out of curiosity since it was the only Brisbane-area entry they had and I see no evidence there at all that the subject of the web page has done anything except some underage/underage gay sex and a lot of wanking. Yet nonetheless the people collating this info have engaged in "infiltration efforts" to obtain his personal information. Personally in this particular case I'm more worried about the internet vigilantes than I am about their target.

That said some of their other web pages do focus on people with an actual history of child molestation so that objection is not a universal one.

Speaking more generally the inevitable problem with paedophilia is that as a society we have this rule that once you've done your time you have a mostly-blank slate and are entitled to live a mostly-normal life as long as you behave yourself. However people's sexual orientation isn't actually so plastic that a few years in jail will reorient someone who is attracted to kids into someone attracted to adults. So there's quite justifiable concern that this category of offenders will re-offend and thus people justifiably want to know if a child sex offender has moved in next door.

So the question is how we balance the risk of re-offending and people's desire to know about offenders against the offender's right (and I think they do have one) to live a mostly-normal life once they get out of jail if they behave themselves. I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect balance rather than an acceptable one but I am very sure that I don't want that balance decided on by internet vigilantes rather than by transparent social processes like courts.

Overall I think the people running this site need a new hobby.
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Old 18th April 2011, 03:53 AM   #4
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Since there's no oversight, I'd be very worried about mistaken identity, misunderstandings or people with a grudge against someone. Merely accusing someone of being, or hinting that they are, pedophiles can ruin someone's life completely.
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Old 18th April 2011, 04:05 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by sillyhead View Post
Is there an ethics subforum somewhere? I couldn't find it.

I don't have any questions about the legality of this site, because, hey, if you want to talk **** and someone hears you, word travels.

DISCLAIMER: EU is not my site.

Here's the site in question: http://evil-unveiled.com


I've heard all sorts of objections about the site, but the one I'm most interested in is the "just because you can doesn't mean you should."


Feel free to invoke Godwin's Law asap
The main objection one could have is that it is a double whammy for those which were really accused and condemned of being pedophile. First get punished with prison, then get punished AGAIN by branding big A on your forehead by being listed on a pedo web site.

Secondly for those not condemned for pedophilia if you look at "our investigation" it is quite weak for those i clicked. Sometimes it is even ambiguous paragraph which make it more like they are ephebophile (liking teenager rather than pedohpile). It looks like it ain't really people PROVED to be pedophile. And it looks from the quality of evidence it is a very nice way to frame somebody (come on ! email addy ? Facebook page ? You are kidding me ??).

Nore that I don't condone pedophilia, but i don't condone witch hunt either.

Last edited by Aepervius; 18th April 2011 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 18th April 2011, 04:12 AM   #6
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If such public warnings should be issued, it should, obviously, be on court order, as part of a verdict. No other system can ensure that people are not falsely accused, and of course, not even then can we be absolutely sure, but at least it will be on level with the rest of our justice system.

It should certainly not be left to private initiative.

Then, one can ask, why not warn against rapists, violent people, notorious swindlers, repeated drunken drivers ("If you see this man driving a car, call the police!"), etc.?

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Old 18th April 2011, 04:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
If such public warnings should be issued, it should, obviously, be on court order, as part of a verdict. No other system can ensure that people are not falsely accused, and of course, not even then can we be absolutely sure, but at least it will be on level with the rest of our justice system.

It should certainly not be left to private initiative.

Then, one can ask, why not warn against rapists, violent people, notorious swindlers, repeated drunken drivers ("If you see this man driving a car, call the police!"), etc.?

Hans
Or warn against corrupt politician
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Old 18th April 2011, 04:18 AM   #8
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There's a good reason why justice should be left to the professionals and not carried out by mobs.
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Old 18th April 2011, 04:21 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Or warn against corrupt politician
The list is endless, but I'd be willing to excempt politicians.

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Old 18th April 2011, 04:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Or warn against corrupt politician
Hell Yes!

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Old 18th April 2011, 04:41 AM   #11
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A lady paediatrician here in the UK was hounded out of her house, because the locals thought that she was a "paedo"!
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Old 18th April 2011, 07:19 AM   #12
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For those with 27m to kill, here's the wonderful Brasseye mockumentary, "Paedogeddon". Very relevant.

Linky.
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Old 18th April 2011, 08:00 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by sillyhead View Post
Is there an ethics subforum somewhere? I couldn't find it.

I don't have any questions about the legality of this site, because, hey, if you want to talk **** and someone hears you, word travels.

DISCLAIMER: EU is not my site.

Here's the site in question: http://evil-unveiled.com


I've heard all sorts of objections about the site, but the one I'm most interested in is the "just because you can doesn't mean you should."


Feel free to invoke Godwin's Law asap

Pretty much says it all:

Quote:
"Jeff" isn't his real name. When he talks about the June day in 2005 that the beer bottle shattered his front window, his voice quavers. "I'm sorry -- all of this just makes me so angry," he says. He was convicted in 1995, as a 23-year-old, for having what he says was consensual sex with a 15-year-old girl he met in a bar. That onetime liaison came to light, Jeff says, when the girl became pregnant (he says DNA later showed he wasn't the father) and her parents reported the episode to the police, with the girl as a cooperating witness. He spent five years in prison, but even after his 2000 release, state law required that he be placed -- for life -- on the state registry, which shows his photo, address, and the details of his conviction.

Jeff says the bottle thrower on that June day was a neighbor -- someone with whom he'd been friendly -- who had found Jeff on the registry and appeared on his lawn with two biker buddies, shouting threats. When Jeff went out to talk to the group, the men formed a semicircle, pushing and spitting on him. He retaliated with punches, and the resulting fight ended with both sides bloodied and a hole in a wall when they pursued him as he retreated into the house.

A month later, Jeff recalls, his tool shed was broken into and the equipment for his logging business stolen. Not long after, a second neighbor plugged a culvert they shared so that Jeff's basement flooded in the next storm; Jeff says the man told him he'd done it "to get the sex offender out of my neighborhood." Jeff has changed his phone number a dozen times after repeated threatening calls
http://www.sosen.org/index.php?optio...s&Itemid=7
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Old 18th April 2011, 08:09 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Lowe View Post
However people's sexual orientation isn't actually so plastic that a few years in jail will reorient someone who is attracted to kids into someone attracted to adults. So there's quite justifiable concern that this category of offenders will re-offend and thus people justifiably want to know if a child sex offender has moved in next door.
Actually, this fear isn't justifiable.

http://www.sosen.org/index.php?optio...s&Itemid=7

Quote:
A second premise is that sex offenders are somehow different from other criminals and can't change, but a 2003 study found that sex offenders had a three-year recidivism rate of 5 percent for another sex crime; that compares with a 47 percent rate for other criminals committing another crime.
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:06 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Pretty much says it all:
He spent 5 years in prison for having consensual sex with a 15 year old? Oh wow...
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Actually, this fear isn't justifiable.

http://www.sosen.org/index.php?optio...s&Itemid=7
I'm not sure you're refuting what Lowe suggested. Pointing out that "sex offenders" as a group do not have a high recidivism rate, is not a refutation of his suggestion that a particular category of sex offenders may re-offend. (I took his use of the phrase "this category of offenders" to refer to a narrower band than just "sex offenders" - i.e actual paedophiles.)

[I'm just going by your summary of the link, as the link itself doesn't seem to go anywhere.]
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:14 AM   #17
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If someone molested my child I'd want to beat them to death with my own hands. If a past pedophile moved in to my neighborhood I'd want to drive him out with fire and dogs or else I couldn't sleep at night worrying about my kid.

However, I recognize that neither of these activities should be legal, and the latter is not even completely fair or rational.

This stuff pushes our buttons and makes us stupid. The problem is HUGELY inflated by the utterly ridiculous way that peeing in an alley or having sex with your younger girlfriend can get you marked as a sex offender for life. You hear sex offender and it becomes pedophile in your brain.

Why don't we have records for murderers and con men in neighborhoods? Why does some guy with an explosive murderous temper get to go withing 500ft of my child but creepy lip-licker can't?

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Old 18th April 2011, 09:27 AM   #18
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I have a friend who's had a horrible time getting a job after a conviction for this. It was very much a case of a teenage girl at an adult party, consensual sex, and the mother found out and freaked. So he did time for statutory rape, has a felony record, and is pretty unemployable. He's also married to one of my best friends and I have no problems with him.

Hurray justice system! Bring on the vigilantes! Society isn't safe!
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:33 AM   #19
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I have a question: If legal age of consent differs from state and you have sex with a 17 year old on the border between two states, one of them having an age of consent of 18 and the other one of 17, what next?
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:37 AM   #20
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It is even worst than that. As far as I remember a few 16 year old giving their OWN naked picture got convicted as sex offender for "publishing paedophilia pornography".
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
I have a question: If legal age of consent differs from state and you have sex with a 17 year old on the border between two states, one of them having an age of consent of 18 and the other one of 17, what next?
I have one a little more probable. Phone or text sex between two people, a sixteen year old where sixteen is the age of consent and an eighteen year old where eighteen is the age of consent. Is that still a crime?
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:38 AM   #22
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Talking

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
I have a question: If legal age of consent differs from state and you have sex with a 17 year old on the border between two states, one of them having an age of consent of 18 and the other one of 17, what next?
Your wee-wee get sliced at the border, and you can go free in the "17 year old" state whereas the wee-wee goes alone to court guilty of a sex offense in the "18 year old" state.
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:43 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by leon_heller View Post
A lady paediatrician here in the UK was hounded out of her house, because the locals thought that she was a "paedo"!
I live awfully near where it happened, was the triumph of ignorance over sense. I think they actually smashed up her house and car rather than hounded her out. Was sad to see though.

I think the age of consent should be 16 everywhere, lower or higher. Seems a reasonable age. That said obviously there are some social standards that make a 42 year old seeing a 16 year old, age of consent or not seem just weird.

Last edited by Calrid; 18th April 2011 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:48 AM   #24
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I've got no problem with exposing pedophiles online so long as they are actual, convicted pedophiles. Don't want the whole world to know that you like to molest little kids? Well, not molesting little kids would be a good start.
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Old 18th April 2011, 09:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
I've got no problem with exposing pedophiles online so long as they are actual, convicted pedophiles. Don't want the whole world to know that you like to molest little kids? Well, not molesting little kids would be a good start.
You realize that not only pedophile are registered as sex offender, right ?
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:01 AM   #26
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Considering that the "featured article" is about a guy who - despite being an admitted pedophile - gives no signs that he's actually molested anyone, I think this is a witch hunt.
Contrast this with Perverted Justice, who pose as kids in order to catch people who randomly message kids online and solicit them for sex.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:02 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
I've got no problem with exposing pedophiles online so long as they are actual, convicted pedophiles. Don't want the whole world to know that you like to molest little kids? Well, not molesting little kids would be a good start.
Look, society has to have some balls and some honesty.

If they are truly an eternal danger than either:

1) Kill them.
2) Lock them away forever.
3) Stick them on a leper colony.

What we should not do is tell someone "you've served your time and are free to go," and then deny them any chance at a life, and most probably force them to live under a bridge.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:04 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
You realize that not only pedophile are registered as sex offender, right ?
Yes. Nothing I said gave any indication otherwise.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Jekyll's Guest View Post
Look, society has to have some balls and some honesty.

If they are truly an eternal danger than either:

1) Kill them.
2) Lock them away forever.
3) Stick them on a leper colony.

What we should not do is tell someone "you've served your time and are free to go," and then deny them any chance at a life, and most probably force them to live under a bridge.
I'm fine with any of those options. In fact, I would prefer it.But if we're going to let them out, society has a right to know who they are. If that means the rest of their lives suck, so what. Should have thought about that before molesting children.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:15 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
I'm fine with any of those options. In fact, I would prefer it.But if we're going to let them out, society has a right to know who they are. If that means the rest of their lives suck, so what. Should have thought about that before molesting children.
I'm inclined to killing only those that murder.

As far as letting people out you have to assume they won't re-offend otherwise don't let them out. So keep your urges in check and live your life like any other criminal that has served their time.

If you can't then two strikes you're out, off to pedo island for life and hope you're not the one in the gingham dress.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:26 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Yes. Nothing I said gave any indication otherwise.
So you would rather "stick it" to a young girl which commited the error of sending a video/photo to her same 16 aged boyfriend and ruin her life forever ?

Oh boy.... I am speechless.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:32 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by sillyhead View Post
Is there an ethics subforum somewhere? I couldn't find it.

I don't have any questions about the legality of this site, because, hey, if you want to talk **** and someone hears you, word travels.

DISCLAIMER: EU is not my site.

Here's the site in question: http://evil-unveiled.com


I've heard all sorts of objections about the site, but the one I'm most interested in is the "just because you can doesn't mean you should."


Feel free to invoke Godwin's Law asap
These men must be crazy. If their employers find about this its goodbye job. If their community finds out its goodbye whatever.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:34 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
So you would rather "stick it" to a young girl which commited the error of sending a video/photo to her same 16 aged boyfriend and ruin her life forever ?

Oh boy.... I am speechless.
I dunno where the hell you got that.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:55 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
I dunno where the hell you got that.
Obviously you're unaware of the recent developments regarding the treatment of sexting as a sex offense.

Teens have been charged, and convicted, as sex offenders for doing something as simple as sending a topless picture of themselves to their boyfriend. I'd love to find the story I saw on the news here not too long ago (can't seem to find it, though) of the 14 year old boy who was being prosecuted as a sex offender for simply having received an unsolicited nude photo on his phone of a girl the same age at his school.

Here's some background on the issue:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-19518_3-10207408-238.html
https://litigation-essentials.lexisn...3cf0eddf538b6b
http://www.thelegality.com/2009/02/1...me-defendants/
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:58 AM   #35
dtugg
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Originally Posted by tesscaline View Post
Obviously you're unaware of the recent developments regarding the treatment of sexting as a sex offense.

Teens have been charged, and convicted, as sex offenders for doing something as simple as sending a topless picture of themselves to their boyfriend. I'd love to find the story I saw on the news here not too long ago (can't seem to find it, though) of the 14 year old boy who was being prosecuted as a sex offender for simply having received an unsolicited nude photo on his phone of a girl the same age at his school.

Here's some background on the issue:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-19518_3-10207408-238.html
https://litigation-essentials.lexisn...3cf0eddf538b6b
http://www.thelegality.com/2009/02/1...me-defendants/
I meant where he/she got that I want to "stick it" to kids that do that.
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:01 AM   #36
tesscaline
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
I meant where he/she got that I want to "stick it" to kids that do that.
You agreed with someone who was making a comment about sex offenders/child molesters. These kids getting prosecuted for sexting are being prosecuted as sex offenders and child molesters (child pornography, of all things... ). So your comments would, since you didn't clarify, seem to apply to them as well.
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:04 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by tesscaline View Post
You agreed with someone who was making a comment about sex offenders/child molesters. These kids getting prosecuted for sexting are being prosecuted as sex offenders and child molesters (child pornography, of all things... ). So your comments would, since you didn't clarify, seem to apply to them as well.
I think it's the phrase 'stick it to kids' he's against you using. After all, a misunderstanding like that could get him killed or imprisoned for life as a sex offender.
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:05 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by tesscaline View Post
You agreed with someone who was making a comment about sex offenders/child molesters. These kids getting prosecuted for sexting are being prosecuted as sex offenders and child molesters (child pornography, of all things... ). So your comments would, since you didn't clarify, seem to apply to them as well.
Please re-read my posts in this thread. I didn't agree with anyone's comments. I made a comment of my own where I referred, specifically to "actual, convicted pedophiles." And that is exactly what I meant. I said nothing about sex offenders in general.
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:08 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Please re-read my posts in this thread. I didn't agree with anyone's comments. I made a comment of my own where I referred, specifically to "actual, convicted pedophiles." And that is exactly what I meant. I said nothing about sex offenders in general.
And in the eyes of the law, as it is currently being enforced, these children are "actual, convicted pedophiles." Don't you get that?
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:13 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by tesscaline View Post
And in the eyes of the law, as it is currently being enforced, these children are "actual, convicted pedophiles." Don't you get that?
Perhaps you don't know what the word pedophile means. It is someone who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. So when I say pedophile that is what I mean.

And yes, I am aware that some people get put on sex offenders registries along with pedophiles for bs reasons. Has nothing to do with what I said though.

I swear, people need to take reading comprehension classes.

Last edited by dtugg; 18th April 2011 at 11:15 AM.
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