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Old 18th April 2011, 10:29 AM   #1
Deranged
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Question So Will 2012 Be Just Another Year?



Will 2012 come and go like any other year or will something either catastropic
or (did I spell that wrong?) incredible beyond belief happen? What do you think and why? I assume 99% of you will say nothing will occur. The most tame theory I've heard yet was by Shirley MacClaine: "it will be a year of New Beginnings." Which I suppose means it'll have lots of new endings which is sort of alarming.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:34 AM   #2
Aepervius
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"Will 2012 come and go like any other year"

Yes.

"incredible beyond belief happen?"

No.

"The most tame theory I've heard yet was by Shirley MacClaine: "it will be a year of New Beginnings." Which I suppose means it'll have lots of new endings which is sort of alarming."

And Aepervius says it will be a year as other will be. Shirly 1 , Aepervius 1 : it is a tie.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
And Aepervius says it will be a year as other will be. Shirly 1 , Aepervius 1 : it is a tie.
Oh, come on!

January will begin again.
February will begin again.
March will begin again.
April will begin again.
May will begin again.
June will begin again.
July will begin again.
August will begin again.
September will begin again.
October will begin again.
November will begin again.
December will begin again.
MLB will begin again.
Bunches of new beginnings.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:54 AM   #4
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Just the same as 2001, and 2000, and 1999, as other good examples of "end of the world" years. But then, just about every year is the end of the world anymore.

It's just crazy people making crazy claims.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:55 AM   #5
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I fully expect it to be pretty much like every other year.
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Old 18th April 2011, 10:58 AM   #6
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One thing for which I am sure: all during 2012 you will see a greatly increased religious fervor all over the world. Television will have many more documentaries of December 2012. People will panic; people will travel to Sedona awaiting Jesus (or something). I'm looking forward to the entire year.
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:02 AM   #7
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I suspect there will be many things occurring in 2012 that people would call catastrophes, like natural disasters, which will be accompanied by the usual and unfortunate destruction of property and loss of life.

Will the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse be making an appearance? I doubt it.
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:15 AM   #8
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I've addressed this countless times before, but the basic gist of it is: it's millennialism done wrong. I mean fearing the millennium because it ends in 000 is stupid as it is, doing it for someone else's calendar is stupider, and doing it only because of being too stupid to even understand it's not actually a millennium at all... pretty much takes the cake.

So, to start at the beginning, the Mayans had a numbering in base 20. So while we have digits from 0 to 9 before adding an extra digit, the Mayans actually had 20 digits. The basic story is that they counted on fingers and toes, whereas our ancestors counted only on fingers. (And as i always say, thank goodness the Mayans didn't make a male-only math that goes to 21)

So 20 was a pretty important number for them,

So was the number 13. This will actually be important when we get to why this isn't a millennium.

Their first attempt at a calendar was the Tzolkin, which actually has 260 days per year, as 13 months of 20 days each. So, 13x20, geddit? It also was the interval between two rises of the sun between two stones in one point, and the approximate duration of a human gestation, counting from the first missed period (whereas we count from the last period.) Coincidence? They obviously thought not.

You'd think a 260 day year would be obviously stupid, but it was actually in use for a loong time.

Then came the Long Count calendar, which is actually the one used in the 2012 prophecy. It still was a piss-poor calendar, but slightly less so than Tzolkin.

The Long Count calendar ditched the 13 entirely and went for 18 months of 20 days each, so 360 days total. Which still skips through the actual calendar like crazy. By comparison, the Egyptians had figured a 365 day calendar, oh, only a couple of millennia before them.

From there it went sorta like for us with decades, centuries and millennia, except counting 20s instead of 10s. So for us a decade is 10 years, for them a "katun" was 20 Long Count years. For us a century is 10x10 years, for them a "baktun" was 20x20 Long Count years. For us a millennium is 10x10x10 years, for them a "piktun" was, you guessed, 20x20x20 Long Count years.

Which brings us to 2012, when the 13'th baktun ends.

It also bears mentioning that not only there are no Mayan end-of-world prophecies for that date. And in fact there are inscribed dates on their monuments going trillions of years into the future. I dunno what was supposed to happen trillion years into the future, and why it was important to write it down, but it would be silly to worry about it if the world ends in 2012, innit?

The whole scare peddled there is really just base-20 millennialism.

And there we have the first problem. What ends in 2012 is simply the 13'th baktun (century) of the Long Count calendar. The actual piktun (millennium) doesn't end for another couple thousand years. So even for a millennium scare, it's a millennium scare done stupidly wrong.

Some folks postulated that, basically, because 13 was such a lucky number for Mayans, surely the hundreds go only up to 13. But that's not actually supported for anything, and nothing else in the Long Count calendar is using thirteens anyway. There's a max 18 in the months position, but the years and decades positions use all the 20 digits, so it's not clear at all why the centuries position would stop at 13. So, just to spell it out lout, its not being supported by anything means the 2012 scare peddlers made it up, to sound like there was a millennium rollover where there is none.

In our digits, it's like being scared of the calendar rollover from 699 AD to 700 AD. I mean, at east going from 999 to 1000 sounds, you know, oooh, millennium, running out of digits. But 699 to 700? It's not like you run out of digits at 6. (Or in the Mayans' case at 13.)

But anyway, that's what is going to end and what is going to start. The 13'th baktun (Mayan base-20 century) ends, the 14'th baktun starts. Sounds like a good reason to party, if anyone asks me, but that's about the whole importance of it.

It also doesn't help that all the brouhaha about foretold galactic alignments and other such BS is missing the following important aspects:

1. It's based on a caledar with 360 day years. Really, it's from a culture who was too primitive to even figure out the length of the year. Would you trust them to tell you anything about galactic scale events?

2. The only astronomical feat those guys ever did was counting the days in the cycles of Venus. Which is, you know, only the most visible star in the sky. And even then, just counting the length of its cycle, not any fancy solar system model or anything. They had no flipping clue even about the other planets in our own solar system, much less about galactic-scale stuff.

For the record, the Mayans then figured out the Haab calendar, which finally padded the year to 365 days. It was the old 18x20 Long Count year, plus 5 unnamed days at the end. Finally putting them on par with the Egyptian 365 day calendar, but without the smarts to reset it at an equinox or such like even the most primitive folks did in the Middle East.

So, you know, a doomsday event based on the Long Count calendar is using a calendar which was obsolete even for the Mayans for a looong time.

And then they kinda went full tilt into stupid land, with the Calendar Round, which snuck their old 13x20 Tzolkin calendar right back through the back door. (And without any lubricant) Now instead of telling you a date consisting of year, month and day, they'd only tell you the month and day in the Tzolkin and Haab calendars.

For a modern day analogy, imagine that you were looking at prospective mates on a dating site, and instead of learning that she's born on the 8'th of April in 1980, you'd learn that she's born on the 8'th of April by the Gregorian calendar and the 14 of Nissan by the Jewish calendar. And it's up to you to do the maths and figure out when the heck that happened.

Of course, the above example is kinda illustrating the problem already, because those dates coincide for both 1980 and 1999. So you're either meeting a 31 year old girl, or may end up starring on To Catch A Predator

It was the same for that calendar, except not so quickly. The combination of Tzolkin and Haab has a perfect 52 year cycle. So if a combination of dates works out to, say, 1990, it also works for 1948 or 1886. So your prospective date could be either 21 years old or 73 years old.

Yeah, online dating must have sucked for the Mayans
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:36 AM   #9
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Uh???? Does this mean I don't have to live in a hole in the dirt anymore?
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:39 AM   #10
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Well, London hosting the Olympics will be quite catastrophic I am betting.

Not what you had in mind? Maybe US presidential elections. That will be quite the disaster show as well.
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Old 18th April 2011, 11:44 AM   #11
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No. I'm turning 40 in 2012. I have mixed feelings about that.
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Old 18th April 2011, 12:32 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
No. I'm turning 40 in 2012. I have mixed feelings about that.
Put your mind at ease, that's not a disaster at all
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Old 18th April 2011, 12:36 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner View Post
Put your mind at ease, that's not a disaster at all
I don't think it's a disaster. I'm just farther along in some areas of my life than I thought I would be at 40 and not as far in others. Like I said, mixed feelings.
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Old 18th April 2011, 01:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Deranged View Post
Will 2012 come and go like any other year or will something either catastropic or (did I spell that wrong?) incredible beyond belief happen?
In 2012, many surprising, one-of-a-kind events will happen.

Just like every other year.
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Old 18th April 2011, 01:15 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Gawdzilla View Post
Oh, come on!

January will begin again.
February will begin again.
March will begin again.
April will begin again.
May will begin again.
June will begin again.
July will begin again.
August will begin again.
September will begin again.
October will begin again.
November will begin again.
December will begin again.
MLB will begin again.
Bunches of new beginnings.
Oh no!!!! HOLY FSM PLEASE NO !
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Old 18th April 2011, 01:17 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by badnewsBH View Post
Will the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse be making an appearance? I doubt it.

My favorite joke :

"the end is neigh !"
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Old 18th April 2011, 01:28 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
No. I'm turning 40 in 2012. I have mixed feelings about that.
.
Been there, done that.
32 years ago.
No biggie.
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Old 18th April 2011, 01:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by CurtC View Post
In 2012, many surprising, one-of-a-kind events will happen.

Just like every other year.
.
All dependent on a couple things..
Mankind hasn't wiped himself (and other unfortunate living creatures) off the face of the earth, so there's no one to notice any year.
And that big space rock with "Earth our destination" printed on it doesn't get here.
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Old 18th April 2011, 02:08 PM   #19
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Once 2012 has come and gone, we might say, to paraphrase Walter Cronkite, "What sort of a year was it? A year like any other, full of the events that alter and illuminate our lives; and YOU WERE THERE!"
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Old 18th April 2011, 02:13 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Deranged View Post
One thing for which I am sure: all during 2012 you will see a greatly increased religious fervor all over the world. Television will have many more documentaries of December 2012. People will panic; people will travel to Sedona awaiting Jesus (or something). I'm looking forward to the entire year.

Rather like the end of 1999.


Oh, wait...
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Old 18th April 2011, 02:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Deranged View Post
One thing for which I am sure: all during 2012 you will see a greatly increased religious fervor all over the world. Television will have many more documentaries of December 2012. People will panic; people will travel to Sedona awaiting Jesus (or something). I'm looking forward to the entire year.
How can they have a real documentary untill at least the day of and, practically, until the day after!!
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Old 18th April 2011, 02:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Oh no!!!! HOLY FSM PLEASE NO !
Some guy is throwing out his first balls as we speak.
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Old 18th April 2011, 04:02 PM   #23
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Great post Hans, thanks for that.
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Old 19th April 2011, 08:34 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
My favorite joke :

"the end is neigh !"

Or perhaps, "The neighs have it"?
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Old 19th April 2011, 08:36 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Deranged View Post

Will 2012 come and go like any other year or will something either catastropic
or (did I spell that wrong?) incredible beyond belief happen? What do you think and why? I assume 99% of you will say nothing will occur. The most tame theory I've heard yet was by Shirley MacClaine: "it will be a year of New Beginnings." Which I suppose means it'll have lots of new endings which is sort of alarming.
http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

In all likelyhood, nothing special will happen.

McHrozni
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Old 19th April 2011, 09:04 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Brattus View Post
Uh???? Does this mean I don't have to live in a hole in the dirt anymore?
.
You can upgrade to a house on wheels to avoid being where the comet is expected to come down.
Much easier to pack up and drive off, without leaving a hazardous hole in the soon to be really big hole area. (Think of the children!)
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Old 19th April 2011, 09:05 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

In all likelyhood, nothing special will happen.

McHrozni
.
Maybe that Chinese curse of "living in interesting times" will have run its course!
We can always hope!
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Old 19th April 2011, 09:36 AM   #28
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So Will 2012 Be Just Another Year?
No. It'll be a leap year.
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:06 AM   #29
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i hope the judgement day believers and the Aliens believers are right, Its judgment day year AND Disclosure year this year. that would be huge, Jesus and Aliens at once.
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:13 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
Originally Posted by Craig4
No. I'm turning 40 in 2012. I have mixed feelings about that.
Been there, done that.
32 years ago.
No biggie.
You were in 2012 in 1980? What did you see? Anything we should be warned about?
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:24 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
You were in 2012 in 1980? What did you see? Anything we should be warned about?
.
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The "Golden Years" are filled with joint aches, eye problems, and the expanding universe.. every year on the 10-speed, the miles have gotten longer and the hills steeper than last year!
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:28 AM   #32
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We will see tornadoes.

And hurricanes.

And earthquakes.

There will be disease.

And famine.

And war and unrest.

Millions will die.

Someone, somewhere will do something unpredictable and destructive.

Just like 2011.

And 2010...

And 2009...

Ad infinitum...
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:56 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Deranged View Post

Will 2012 come and go like any other year or will something either catastropic
or (did I spell that wrong?) incredible beyond belief happen? What do you think and why? I assume 99% of you will say nothing will occur. The most tame theory I've heard yet was by Shirley MacClaine: "it will be a year of New Beginnings." Which I suppose means it'll have lots of new endings which is sort of alarming.
I predict many new farts coming forth in 2012.
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Old 19th April 2011, 10:59 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Deranged View Post
One thing for which I am sure: all during 2012 you will see a greatly increased religious fervor all over the world. Television will have many more documentaries of December 2012. People will panic; people will travel to Sedona awaiting Jesus (or something). I'm looking forward to the entire year.
That will be good for Sedona's economy, banner for Sedona's clean up crews, bummer for pollution.
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Old 19th April 2011, 11:11 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Deranged View Post

Will 2012 come and go like any other year or will something either catastropic
or (did I spell that wrong?) incredible beyond belief happen? What do you think and why? I assume 99% of you will say nothing will occur. The most tame theory I've heard yet was by Shirley MacClaine: "it will be a year of New Beginnings." Which I suppose means it'll have lots of new endings which is sort of alarming.
It will be the best of times, it will be the worst of times, it will be the age of wisdom, it will be the age of foolishness, it will be the season of Light, it will be the season of Darkness.

C. Dickens "A Tale of Two Cities". (edited)
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Old 19th April 2011, 11:17 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by RatBoy View Post
We will see tornadoes.

And hurricanes.

And earthquakes.

There will be disease.

And famine.

And war and unrest.

Millions will die.

Someone, somewhere will do something unpredictable and destructive.

Just like 2011.

And 2010...

And 2009...

Ad infinitum...
But in 2012, I will finish paying off my mortgage. Which is a good thing!
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Old 19th April 2011, 11:20 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Deranged View Post
One thing for which I am sure: all during 2012 you will see a greatly increased religious fervor all over the world. Television will have many more documentaries of December 2012. People will panic; people will travel to Sedona awaiting Jesus (or something). I'm looking forward to the entire year.
Don't forget the people who think that there will be an "awareness increasing event". Those people think that, come December 21st 2012, people all around the world will become enlightened, have a new sense of "being".

I have been on a forum where they really thought that will happen. And no amount of facts can persuade them that there is nothing to it. They have "their own truths".

I predict those people will do their best to "see everything with different eyes", and actually think they are enlightened, even when they don't really feel different.

A also predict that some of those people will get in serious trouble when they approach people, secure in the knowledge that the entire world has changed, and being very surprised by the coldness they encounter (solidifying the belief that they alone have changed, and that they are really "the special people").

In short, I predict more delusional people than ever.

Cheers

Last edited by Bram Kaandorp; 19th April 2011 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 19th April 2011, 11:21 AM   #38
Quinn
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My prediction: the only thing that will be different will be a heightened sense of self-aware "2012 drama." Every natural disaster, act of war, or other Generally Bad Thing will be given undue significance by those eager to believe. And because crazy sells, we'll hear a good deal about their reactions in the media for the entire year. It will be annoying as ****. I'm really looking forward to, say, the third week of January, 2013, by which time the average person (and therefore the media) will be "so over all that stupid 2012 stuff."
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Old 19th April 2011, 11:21 AM   #39
JFrankA
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2012 will bring the END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!














.....of 2011......

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Old 19th April 2011, 11:25 AM   #40
HansMustermann
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
Don't forget the people who think that there will be an "awareness increasing event". Those people think that, come December 21st 2012, people all around the world will become enlightened, have a new sense of "being".
Well, I for one plan to celebrate the end of the 13'th baktun by partying like it's thirteen ninety nine, so it's a fair prophecy that I'll see the world with different eyes. I think the standard phrase is "beer goggles"
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