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Old 5th May 2011, 08:34 AM   #1
HansMustermann
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Alien Idiocracy?

You know, it just occurred to me that, if you listen to alien theories, the aliens we're getting sure got dumber by the millennium. I mean, contrast:

Ancient Aliens: taught humanity to build pyramids, track the calendar of other stars, read and write, build batteries and complex mechanisms, gave laws and rules, and so on

Aliens in the 20'th and 21'st century: seem to be only into mutilating cows, anal probing random schizophrenics with dildo-shaped implements, and making crop circles. I.e., more like the intellectual or scientific level of drunk inbred hillbillies on a slow day, than Vulcan Science Officer level, if you get my drift.

And I also notice that the supposed spaceships seen haven't really evolved much in all those thousands of years. Human vehicles changed over the years massively in both shape and function, yet when someone sees a vague disk in a 4000 BCE cave drawing, it's supposed to be the same UFO as a similar vague disk as in a 2000 CE picture. It's as if past a point, those aliens stopped inventing anything new or even designing new ships entirely. (Otherwise you'd think at least fashion would cause some changes now and then.)

So... what's with that? Are we witnessing Idiocracy in action for an alien civilization? Are the UFO theorists trying to tell us that, basically, the descendants of those who were so awesome 5000 years ago are now a bunch of retarded hicks who can barely set a spaceship on autopilot and only know which part of an ancient scientific machinery goes up someone's ass?
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Old 5th May 2011, 08:52 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
You know, it just occurred to me that, if you listen to alien theories, the aliens we're getting sure got dumber by the millennium. I mean, contrast:

Ancient Aliens: taught humanity to build pyramids, track the calendar of other stars, read and write, build batteries and complex mechanisms, gave laws and rules, and so on

Aliens in the 20'th and 21'st century: seem to be only into mutilating cows, anal probing random schizophrenics with dildo-shaped implements, and making crop circles. I.e., more like the intellectual or scientific level of drunk inbred hillbillies on a slow day, than Vulcan Science Officer level, if you get my drift.

And I also notice that the supposed spaceships seen haven't really evolved much in all those thousands of years. Human vehicles changed over the years massively in both shape and function, yet when someone sees a vague disk in a 4000 BCE cave drawing, it's supposed to be the same UFO as a similar vague disk as in a 2000 CE picture. It's as if past a point, those aliens stopped inventing anything new or even designing new ships entirely. (Otherwise you'd think at least fashion would cause some changes now and then.)

So... what's with that? Are we witnessing Idiocracy in action for an alien civilization? Are the UFO theorists trying to tell us that, basically, the descendants of those who were so awesome 5000 years ago are now a bunch of retarded hicks who can barely set a spaceship on autopilot and only know which part of an ancient scientific machinery goes up someone's ass?
I wish Rramjet would weigh in on this important subject, give us some perspective and insight into this seeming de-evolution.

Or not.
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Old 5th May 2011, 11:08 AM   #3
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The Kids In The Hall had the best take on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7sBTHtcLU
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Old 5th May 2011, 11:15 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
The Kids In The Hall had the best take on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7sBTHtcLU
I love that bit.

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Old 5th May 2011, 11:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
The Kids In The Hall had the best take on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz7sBTHtcLU
Brilliant, the obvious head-shape, and not mentioning it in the piece.

I wish there was more of that implied humour on TV nowadays...
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Old 5th May 2011, 12:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
You know, it just occurred to me that, if you listen to alien theories, the aliens we're getting sure got dumber by the millennium. I mean, contrast:

Ancient Aliens: taught humanity to build pyramids, track the calendar of other stars, read and write, build batteries and complex mechanisms, gave laws and rules, and so on

Aliens in the 20'th and 21'st century: seem to be only into mutilating cows, anal probing random schizophrenics with dildo-shaped implements, and making crop circles. I.e., more like the intellectual or scientific level of drunk inbred hillbillies on a slow day, than Vulcan Science Officer level, if you get my drift.

And I also notice that the supposed spaceships seen haven't really evolved much in all those thousands of years. Human vehicles changed over the years massively in both shape and function, yet when someone sees a vague disk in a 4000 BCE cave drawing, it's supposed to be the same UFO as a similar vague disk as in a 2000 CE picture. It's as if past a point, those aliens stopped inventing anything new or even designing new ships entirely. (Otherwise you'd think at least fashion would cause some changes now and then.)

So... what's with that? Are we witnessing Idiocracy in action for an alien civilization? Are the UFO theorists trying to tell us that, basically, the descendants of those who were so awesome 5000 years ago are now a bunch of retarded hicks who can barely set a spaceship on autopilot and only know which part of an ancient scientific machinery goes up someone's ass?
It's simple .
Thousands of years ago the aliens only had limited, expensive, government funded space travel and so only the best and the brightest were sent. In the subsequent millennia space travel has gotten cheaper and simpler and been embraced by the masses; so today the alien equivalent of rednecks are visiting Earth in mass produced knock off ships.
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Old 5th May 2011, 01:00 PM   #7
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Interstellar travel is cheap and plentiful, and human butts are a popular fetish. I bet there are interplanetary websites with hot hillbilly action.
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Old 5th May 2011, 05:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
It's simple .
Thousands of years ago the aliens only had limited, expensive, government funded space travel and so only the best and the brightest were sent. In the subsequent millennia space travel has gotten cheaper and simpler and been embraced by the masses; so today the alien equivalent of rednecks are visiting Earth in mass produced knock off ships.
Its the age old problem from the 20th century...its those darn joyriders!
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Old 5th May 2011, 11:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
I wish Rramjet would weigh in on this important subject, give us some perspective and insight into this seeming de-evolution.

Or not.
You know Resume, I find it fascinating that UFO debunkers constantly put up the argument that (so called) alien craft seem to change and adapt to the culture in which they are being perceived - their thesis being that it is popular culture driving perception (or misperception) rather than a material, observable phenomenon. Then we come to threads like this where we see those same debunkers claiming that alien craft have not “evolved” at all! Well, you can’t have it both ways…

Moreover, one only has to look at UFO reports to note that an wide variety of shapes and sizes of “craft” are in fact observed – the typical “flying saucer” (or disc shaped craft) being statistically in the minority!

One day the so called UFO sceptics (read - debunkers) might actually take the time to look at and understand the research and the evidence surrounding UFOs - such would make a welcome change from their apparent, currently held “received wisdom”, faith-based beliefs concerning the topic.

One final point worth mentioning: Who are we to think that we know the motivations and technology of ET? In characterising the UFO phenomena as an ET “de-evolution” (or “Alien idiocracy” as this thread proposes), one also has to presume that one knows all about ET technology and motivation – and I really don't think that anyone can seriously or rationally lay claim that!
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Old 6th May 2011, 12:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
You know Resume, I find it fascinating that UFO debunkers constantly put up the argument that (so called) alien craft seem to change and adapt to the culture in which they are being perceived - their thesis being that it is popular culture driving perception (or misperception) rather than a material, observable phenomenon. Then we come to threads like this where we see those same debunkers claiming that alien craft have not “evolved” at all! Well, you can’t have it both ways…
In UFO are alien craft land it's a misconception but in reality 'alien' craft do follow the culture of the time

Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
Moreover, one only has to look at UFO reports to note that an wide variety of shapes and sizes of “craft” are in fact observed – the typical “flying saucer” (or disc shaped craft) being statistically in the minority!
Holy smokes it's a straw man and it's wrong.

Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
One day the so called UFO sceptics (read - debunkers) might actually take the time to look at and understand the research and the evidence surrounding UFOs - such would make a welcome change from their apparent, currently held “received wisdom”, faith-based beliefs concerning the topic.
Holy smokes it's a straw man and a poisoning the well

Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
One final point worth mentioning: Who are we to think that we know the motivations and technology of ET? In characterising the UFO phenomena as an ET “de-evolution” (or “Alien idiocracy” as this thread proposes), one also has to presume that one knows all about ET technology and motivation – and I really don't think that anyone can seriously or rationally lay claim that!
Well sure we don't know but then again we do know that no one has reported an ET flying about in the sky.
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Old 6th May 2011, 03:44 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
You know Resume, I find it fascinating that UFO debunkers constantly put up the argument that (so called) alien craft seem to change and adapt to the culture in which they are being perceived - their thesis being that it is popular culture driving perception (or misperception) rather than a material, observable phenomenon. Then we come to threads like this where we see those same debunkers claiming that alien craft have not “evolved” at all! Well, you can’t have it both ways…
Actually, we can, because really there are two distinct kinds of ancient UFOs that their proponents argue for.

1. Those described or depicted by those cultures as something from their era. You know, flying chariots, Ra's sky boat, giants with flaming swords, Ezekiel's "helicopters", or cow-headed gods that idiots like von Däniken somehow interpret as some guy in a spacesuit and the horn being the comms antennas.

2. Every single oval thing that appears in some ancient cave drawing or illustration, and which somehow gets interpreted as a depiction of a modern-type flying saucer.

I was talking about Type 2 ancient UFOs, by the above typology I just made up. But really both types are proposed by different people. And sometimes even by the same people.

Note that Type 1 would make my case just as well. We have some ancient guys who supposedly made such attempts at blending in as to fashion their landing craft as winged bronze-age chariots or actually fight with swords (just for lulz?) in some ancient conflict, etc, or at least did have some awesome and innovative designs, vs today's hillbillies coming in some mass-produced, stamped-metal SUVs.

Last edited by HansMustermann; 6th May 2011 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 6th May 2011, 03:53 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
One final point worth mentioning: Who are we to think that we know the motivations and technology of ET? In characterising the UFO phenomena as an ET “de-evolution” (or “Alien idiocracy” as this thread proposes), one also has to presume that one knows all about ET technology and motivation – and I really don't think that anyone can seriously or rationally lay claim that!
We can however apply Occam's Razor, or its offspring, Hanlon's Razor. ("Never attribute to malice, that which is adequately explained by stupidity.")

We know that there are a thousand and one things to learn about human biology, yet they just seem interested in drilling teeth and probing anuses. Or that for that matter there are more animals around than cows and humans, yet the aliens overwhelmingly seem interested in mutilating the former and ass-raping the latter. Or that even a chimp can come up with better attempts at communication than flattening wheat stalks with a board, and in fact even the alien theorists tell us that there already was a time when aliens were perfectly able to communicate with their chosen high priests, pharaohs and shamans... but apparently they devolved to the point where the most advanced signal they can give is a crop circle. Etc.

It's not the kind of things that would actually fit the pattern of any kind of scientific research. But it is the kind of brain-dead stuff that a delusional retard would come up with, if they had to imagine advanced alien research. So if it's not some delusional retarded humans that come up with it, then it's the aliens themselves who can't do better than come up with shoving dildoes up asses as a way to look like they're researching something.

If the shoe fits and is the simplest explanation...
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Old 6th May 2011, 05:18 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
One day the so called UFO sceptics (read - debunkers) might actually take the time to look at and understand the research and the evidence surrounding UFOs - such would make a welcome change from their apparent, currently held “received wisdom”, faith-based beliefs concerning the topic.
One day the UFOlogists (read - creduloids) might actually take the time to look at and understand the research and lack of evidence surrounding UFOs - such would make a welcome change from their apparent, currently held “received wisdom”, faith-based beliefs concerning the topic.
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Old 6th May 2011, 06:47 AM   #14
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I read Carl Sagan's book about his being invited to sit on a number of blue-ribbon panels intending to investigate the "very best" UFO incidents and sightings.

His conclusion after viewing the various photos and videos and reading the witness testimonies and such...."Not a shred" of evidence.
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Old 6th May 2011, 06:50 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Aliens in the 20'th and 21'st century: seem to be only into mutilating cows, anal probing random schizophrenics with dildo-shaped implements, and making crop circles. I.e., more like the intellectual or scientific level of drunk inbred hillbillies on a slow day, than Vulcan Science Officer level, if you get my drift.
And just how do you "know" they're dildo-shaped?

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Old 6th May 2011, 10:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
...snip...
Moreover, one only has to look at UFO reports to note that an wide variety of shapes and sizes of “craft” are in fact observed – the typical “flying saucer” (or disc shaped craft) being statistically in the minority!
...snip...
Every now and then an UFO enthusiast claims something like the above, either regarding the alleged UFOs itselves or their alleged crew.

To date, I have not yet seen a proper statistical study on these subjects. You know, one where the authors describe the methodology used (criteria to select and classify the data, how the statistics were carried out, error estimates, etc.) and present the raw original data. UFOlogists and UFO fansites claim there are such patterns but never, as far as I know, managed to actually demonstrate them.

Untill such evidence -the study itself, within reasonable quality parameters- is presented, this is just another baseless claim made by UFO enthusiasts and thus may be dismissed as such.
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Old 6th May 2011, 01:43 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
...Aliens in the 20'th and 21'st century: seem to be only into mutilating cows, anal probing random schizophrenics with dildo-shaped implements...

Are we witnessing Idiocracy in action...
"Hey, how 'bout we go 'family-style' on that cow down thar?!"
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Old 6th May 2011, 01:51 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
You know, it just occurred to me that, if you listen to alien theories, the aliens we're getting sure got dumber by the millennium. I mean, contrast:

Ancient Aliens: taught humanity to build pyramids, track the calendar of other stars, read and write, build batteries and complex mechanisms, gave laws and rules, and so on

Aliens in the 20'th and 21'st century: seem to be only into mutilating cows, anal probing random schizophrenics with dildo-shaped implements, and making crop circles. I.e., more like the intellectual or scientific level of drunk inbred hillbillies on a slow day, than Vulcan Science Officer level, if you get my drift.

And I also notice that the supposed spaceships seen haven't really evolved much in all those thousands of years. Human vehicles changed over the years massively in both shape and function, yet when someone sees a vague disk in a 4000 BCE cave drawing, it's supposed to be the same UFO as a similar vague disk as in a 2000 CE picture. It's as if past a point, those aliens stopped inventing anything new or even designing new ships entirely. (Otherwise you'd think at least fashion would cause some changes now and then.)

So... what's with that? Are we witnessing Idiocracy in action for an alien civilization? Are the UFO theorists trying to tell us that, basically, the descendants of those who were so awesome 5000 years ago are now a bunch of retarded hicks who can barely set a spaceship on autopilot and only know which part of an ancient scientific machinery goes up someone's ass?
My theory:

The technology the aliens posses has been getting cheaper and more easily available to them as time goes on. But its complexity has made this a rather long process. ( so as opposed to , lets say cars which took decades to be cheap and common, the ships have taken centuries.) the first ones that came by, that taught us all the good stuff, were the scientists, the professionals, the men on a mission, Captain kirk types.

But as time went on, we lost our novelty, and as that happened, the ability to travel here was becoming cheaper and easier to come by. The scientists are done with us, they know what they want to know. So what we are left with is bored rednecks, attention seekers, teenagers, etc. coming to earth to screw with some stuff because they just got their licenses, or have nothing better to do.

Either that or some real rednecks , teenagers and attention seekers are just making **** up, but that would be crazy...
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Old 6th May 2011, 02:17 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
My theory:

The technology the aliens posses has been getting cheaper and more easily available to them as time goes on. But its complexity has made this a rather long process. ( so as opposed to , lets say cars which took decades to be cheap and common, the ships have taken centuries.) the first ones that came by, that taught us all the good stuff, were the scientists, the professionals, the men on a mission, Captain kirk types.

But as time went on, we lost our novelty, and as that happened, the ability to travel here was becoming cheaper and easier to come by. The scientists are done with us, they know what they want to know. So what we are left with is bored rednecks, attention seekers, teenagers, etc. coming to earth to screw with some stuff because they just got their licenses, or have nothing better to do.

Either that or some real rednecks , teenagers and attention seekers are just making **** up, but that would be crazy...
Much like the "teasers" in the H2G2...
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Old 6th May 2011, 09:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
Every now and then an UFO enthusiast claims something like the above, either regarding the alleged UFOs itselves or their alleged crew.

To date, I have not yet seen a proper statistical study on these subjects. You know, one where the authors describe the methodology used (criteria to select and classify the data, how the statistics were carried out, error estimates, etc.) and present the raw original data. UFOlogists and UFO fansites claim there are such patterns but never, as far as I know, managed to actually demonstrate them.

Untill such evidence -the study itself, within reasonable quality parameters- is presented, this is just another baseless claim made by UFO enthusiasts and thus may be dismissed as such.
Well... this just typifies the UFO debunker mentality and proves my point. UFO debunkers just don't examine the evidence. Try a few of these links for example:

http://www.nicap.org/special.htm
http://www.ufocasebook.com/pdf/specialreport14.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/CondonReport.htm
http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_file..._ufo_study.pdf
http://www.scientificexploration.org...2_sturrock.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/cometa.htm
http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/fr...enceregion.htm

..of course this represents just the tip of the iceberg...
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Old 6th May 2011, 10:56 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
UFO debunkers just don't examine the evidence.
What evidence, what UFO debunkers, and what evidence do you have to support that claim?

Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Are we witnessing Idiocracy in action for an alien civilization?
At least one UFOlogist has pondered this question…
"I have come to support less and less the idea that UFOs are 'nuts and bolts' spacecrafts from other worlds. There are just too many things going against this theory. To me, it seems ridiculous that super intelligences would travel great distances to do relatively stupid things like stop cars, collect soil samples, and frighten people. I think we must begin to re-examine the evidence. We must begin to look closer to home."
~ J. Allen Hynek, 1976
Unfortunately, I’m afraid his critical thinking skills went downhill from there…

[so close and yet so far, missed it by this >< much]
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Old 7th May 2011, 01:50 AM   #22
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well, Jacques Vallee's theory is that the UFO's are actually inter-dimensional beings, meaning they dont physically fly millions of lightyears to earth, so its explains the frequent visits. He also says from a lack of physical evidence they just masquerade as crafts, but really nonphysical entities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques...e_UFO_evidence

For more detailed analysis here's a summary of his book Masters of Deception
http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Vallee_06.pdf

And full text here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/33478326/J...s-of-Deception

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Old 7th May 2011, 04:02 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
Well... this just typifies the UFO debunker mentality and proves my point. UFO debunkers just don't examine the evidence. Try a few of these links for example:

http://www.nicap.org/special.htm
http://www.ufocasebook.com/pdf/specialreport14.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/CondonReport.htm
http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_file..._ufo_study.pdf
http://www.scientificexploration.org...2_sturrock.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/cometa.htm
http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/fr...enceregion.htm

..of course this represents just the tip of the iceberg...
Like with your evidence that any of us are UFO debunkers you haven't shown any evidence of intelligently controlled craft of ET origin.
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Old 7th May 2011, 04:23 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
Well... this just typifies the UFO debunker mentality and proves my point. UFO debunkers just don't examine the evidence. Try a few of these links for example:

http://www.nicap.org/special.htm
http://www.ufocasebook.com/pdf/specialreport14.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/CondonReport.htm
http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_file..._ufo_study.pdf
http://www.scientificexploration.org...2_sturrock.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/cometa.htm
http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/fr...enceregion.htm

..of course this represents just the tip of the iceberg...
Typical creduloid antics. For an example of a lack of evidence and the mental gyrations that the creduloids have to go through to maintain their belief system, see this thread:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=156375
where the creduloid can never present compelling evidence for his beliefs, and yet still beliefs it's aliens.
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Old 7th May 2011, 05:44 AM   #25
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therival58's comment illustrates the ad-hoc nature of these things. Not actual alien spacecraft? Well....How about time travellers, or maybe interdimensional beings, or folks visiting from another section of the "multiverse", or Angels...
If all you have to do is make stuff up it's pretty easy.
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Old 7th May 2011, 05:54 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Rramjet View Post
Well... this just typifies the UFO debunker mentality and proves my point. UFO debunkers just don't examine the evidence. Try a few of these links for example:

http://www.nicap.org/special.htm
http://www.ufocasebook.com/pdf/specialreport14.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/CondonReport.htm
http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_file..._ufo_study.pdf
http://www.scientificexploration.org...2_sturrock.pdf
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/cometa.htm
http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/fr...enceregion.htm

..of course this represents just the tip of the iceberg...
Oh, sure, its the tip of the iceberg. The tip of the iceberg composed by pseudosience and crackpotery that UFOlogy actually is. The tip of the iceberg of how flawed are your claims, how flawed is your methodology, how poor is your knowledge of the very material you claim we do not examine.

You, as well as other UFO enthusiasts and self-proclaimed experts, claim there are well-defined morphological trends regarding alleged UFOs and their alleged crew. I said I am not aware of good statistic studies demonstrating this. Your reply? A bunch of links and complains that skeptics do not look at the material. Have you actually read the material you linked to?

Rramjet, you provided once again evidence that, using your own words- You just don't examine the evidence.

One of the links you posted is towards the Project Blue Book Report, hosted at UFOcasebook site. Yes, it has statistics on UFO morphology. But have you cared to look at the results of their statistics? No? Let me help you. Here's a quote:

Originally Posted by Project Blue Book, p94, hosted at UFOcasebook site
An intensive study, aimed at finding a verified example of a "flying
saucer" or at deriving a verified model or models of "flying saucers" (as
defined on Page 1), led to the conclusion that neither goal could be attained
using the present data.
Now, regarding the others? Do they help your case on the alleged trends on UFO morphology? No.

So, you can now either show a good, reliable study that can actually back your claim or remove it.
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Old 7th May 2011, 06:19 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by therival58 View Post
well, Jacques Vallee's theory is that the UFO's are actually inter-dimensional beings, meaning they dont physically fly millions of lightyears to earth, so its explains the frequent visits. He also says from a lack of physical evidence they just masquerade as crafts, but really nonphysical entities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques...e_UFO_evidence

For more detailed analysis here's a summary of his book Masters of Deception
http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Vallee_06.pdf

And full text here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/33478326/J...s-of-Deception
A minor quibble on this: you state what Vallee's theory is - but do you understand the difference between the way most people (Vallee clearly included) and real scientists determine a theory is? For regular, non-scientific people, a theory is for all practical purposes a guess, and at best, a guess that fuses bits of known and supposed items to imply a causation, a process, an explanation of something. Vallee has taken (I'm crediting him here with truthful intent for the purposes of the discussion) vague ideas from deep speculation of the possibility of life in other dimensions (a thing that is not mathmatically necessary, never demonstrated in any situation known to us and for which no evidence of any kind exists - even for the existence of those other dimensions except as mathmatical constructs) and the perceived capabilities (radar can't track, appear and disappear at will etc.)of them to fashion a guess that given their modes of apparent function, they must QED exist and be transdimensional.

Real scientists, on the other hand, require actual physical proof of each part of the mix before they begin to construct a theory that assumes anything. And following the proofs of any of the parts, they need actual evidence that any of the verified parts lead specifically to anything else. That is why there is no scientific theory of aliens visiting us from outer space (no compelling or general proven appearances of same that can be subjected to real investigation at the level needed to prove existence and non-terrestrial basis) OR from other dimensions (no compelling evidence or real general indication of existence, much less more specific verifiable and indicative evidence of specific visitation from other dimensions - should those ever prove to be more than mathmatical in nature).
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Old 7th May 2011, 06:56 AM   #28
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Lets assume there are other universes and sentient beings there.

Now, why should we think travelling across universes is easier than travelling between stars of our own universe?

Why should these visitors be non-physical (whatever this actually means)?

Why masquerade as craft?

Too many plot holes in that space opera.
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Old 7th May 2011, 08:11 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by therival58 View Post
well, Jacques Vallee's theory is that the UFO's are actually inter-dimensional beings, meaning they dont physically fly millions of lightyears to earth, so its explains the frequent visits. He also says from a lack of physical evidence they just masquerade as crafts, but really nonphysical entities

This just throws UFO's in the pot with psychic vibrations, water memory and all of the other unmeasurable, untestable "energies" that only offer anecdotal accounts as evidence.
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Old 7th May 2011, 11:38 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
Lets assume there are other universes and sentient beings there.

Now, why should we think travelling across universes is easier than traveling between stars of our own universe?

Why should these visitors be non-physical (whatever this actually means)?

Why masquerade as craft?

Too many plot holes in that space opera.
Christians have an answer: they are DEMONS!!! (Or, fallen angels that had sex with mankind during the time of Noah's flood to produce the "nephilim" in the bible and will return to fool mankind once again)

See these 2 clips from from the documentary "UFO:s - The Hidden Truth!"

Intro Part 1, goes over history of UFO sightings from ancient to modern times
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_9jSmjt6k4

Part 6-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD5Uf3AoRdE
Originally Posted by From Part 6
From our analysis, the teachings of the space beings appear to support many of the principles taught in oriental philosophy by Seers of the Far East...(Bryan Reeves)
Quote:
UFO researcher John Weldon then offers this question: How credible is it to think that literally thousands of genuine extraterrestrials would fly thousands of millions of light years simply to teach new age philosophy, deny Christianity, and support the occult? And why would the entities actually possess and inhabit people just like demons do if they were really advanced extraterrestrials?
Part 7-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J6w9RyHM9k
Originally Posted by From Part 7
Dr. Jacques Vallee has addressed the United Nations on UFO's...he has been widely recognized as the premier investigating scientist in the realm of UFO research...In his book Confrontations, he writes, The medical examinations to which abductees are said to be subjected, often accompanied by sadistic sexual manipulation, is reminiscent of the medieval tales of encounters with demons.

he also made this statement, I believe that when we speak of UFO sightings as instances of space visitations, we are looking at the phenomenon on the wrong level. We are not dealing with successive waves of visitations from space - we are dealing with a controlled system. And he states, UFOs are the means through which man's concepts are being rearranged - they are engaging in a worldwide enterprise of subliminal seduction.
Originally Posted by Part 7
Jacques Vallee, at least at that time when he wrote that book was an agnostic. Interestingly, he comes to basically the same conclusions as I do as a Christian in my research. And he said about UFOs that they're real, but they're not physical. They're messengers of deception, and this was based on his research of about 20 years. They seem to be psychologically, preparing, setting us up, for some ultimate delusion, that is too horrible to imagine, as yet. I would agree with that. (Dave Hunt)

Read some of the comments too, you'll get a kick out of them

Quote:
Thanks for posting this documentary, Skysplash. I have been astonished at how blind people are to the overwhelming evidence of demons (i.e., fallen angels).

People will accept any other explanation (like aliens) as long as it does not make them accountable to God.

I am finding that it does not matter how much evidence you give people - they just simply don't want to be held accountable to God, so they refuse to see the evidence no matter how obvious it is.
And comment from Skysplash himself
Quote:
Be Sure to wathc the Entire Expose. My personal involvement in the Occult has led me to the conclusion of this Video. I have also Personally Met Dave Hunt.

Last edited by therival58; 7th May 2011 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 7th May 2011, 11:42 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by therival58 View Post
Christians have an answer: they are DEMONS!!!

See these 2 clips from from the documentary "UFO - The Hidden Truth!"

Part 6-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD5Uf3AoRdE




Part 7-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J6w9RyHM9k

Read some of the comments too, you'll get a kick out of them


It is a very " House" esque situation. You ask an oncologist, you get cancer, you ask an immunologist you get auto immune.

The same thing applies to woo, you ask a christian it is demons or angels, ask a ufo nut, it is aliens, ask a ct'er it is the government.

The only difference is that in the medical world one can actually come to a conclusion, whereas in woo, every guess is as valid as the one before or after it. And when it gets shown to be something mundane, just ignore that for a few years till people have forgotten about it, and cart it out again.
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Old 7th May 2011, 11:46 AM   #32
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What, no-one has posted to suggest the craft come from the Inner Earth? For shame!
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Old 10th May 2011, 05:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by therival58 View Post
well, Jacques Vallee's theory is that the UFO's are actually inter-dimensional beings, meaning they dont physically fly millions of lightyears to earth, so its explains the frequent visits. He also says from a lack of physical evidence they just masquerade as crafts, but really nonphysical entities
"Interdimensional" is such a BS buzzword these days, it's pretty much on par with "quantum" as a signal from the start that someone is just playing madlibs with big words.

1. For a start, if we're to take the word at face value, namely being actually about more than 3+1 dimensions... none of the reports of aliens or UFOs really bear any resemblance to what you'd expect from something multi-dimensional. Take the intersection of a 3D ship with a random plane, or of something 4d like a tesseract with a 3d universe. Not only you'd get the intersection actually seeing parts of the interior, but it would actually change as it moves. Such a thing wouldn't behave or look anything like the 3d flying saucers or grey aliens moving around.

You know what an actual 4d alien would look in 3d space? Think a jumbled mess that changes in unexpected ways, sometimes appears to split into more than one blob, and offers you a gory view of its insides most of the time. In fact, all the time it's seen as more than a tangent of an extremity in this place. It wouldn't be some neat ships with an interior and exterior, or some grey humanoid aliens, but a nightmarish lovecraftian thing that tests your sanity by just being seen.

That's the kind of thing that annoys me about that kind of BS bingo spiel. Invariably you get some big words thrown around that don't show any actual thought in 4D, or quantum mechanics, or whatever. It's just idiots liking to act as if they're soo smart if they throw around the names of mathematical or physical concepts like they're meaningless words. Or occasionally it's some BS peddler hoping to impress such idiots.

2. Second, ok, let's think "multiverse". But that again doesn't mean the SF movie version where there's a copy of Earth in exactly the same place.

A multiverse can mean something as weird as a continuum of universes with different values of the fundamental constants. Not only you wouldn't find an Earth copy where a clone of you has a goatee in another coordinate in there, but even minute slides into another universe would make even star formation impossible, or even the formation of elements above hydrogen, if the resonances of the other nuclei aren't just right. Pretty much any imaginable being couldn't even survive or even keep existing at all, if they slid from one universe to another in such a construct.

But even in the Hollywood version, if the universes evolve in parallel, there is no telling if life evolves in the other universe on Earth too, and doesn't, say, result in life on Sirius and a barren Venus-like Earth where transition to oxygen didn't happen in time to stop a runaway greenhouse effect. Heck, you don't even know if the planets would form in the same places, or even the stars. Travel between populated stars in a multiverse may involve not just skipping into a different universe instead of travelling 100 light years to another populated star, but skipping into a different universe AND then travelling 100 light years.

3. Even the problem of velocities and energy/impulse conservation are anything but trivial. Even just teleporting from the pole to the equator on Earth can put you at a supersonic speed difference from the environment, and pretty much you get your innards blown out even by the shock against the air. Now think playing bingo with velocities when phasing between planets in different universes, and you have the same problem magnified by thousands.

There is nothing to say that skipping between universes would be any easier even for such consideration than interstellar travel. But again, the ones just playing BS-bingo with big words like "multidimensional" don't actually think it through that deep.

4. That is, if possible at all. Before using X to explain Y, one should first worry if there is any indication that X itself is true. You can't explain Santa by postulating the Easter Bunny, basically. Before explaining anything via interdimensional travel, one should show that such a thing is even possible at all.

5. But most importantly, it's Tooth Fairy Science anyway. You know, the kind where one builds convoluted theories to explain the Tooth Fairy, before actually having a Tooth Fairy to explain.

Before worrying about explaining the aliens, one should first establish that there are any aliens to explain. We can worry about explaining them, once we actually have data to explain, not instead of having the data.

Playing BS-bingo with HOW phenomenon X might happen, is pointless and dumb until one actually established that phenomenon X DOES indeed happen.

If nothing else because any scientific explanation of the how, has to be falsifiable against known instances of it happening. E.g., if I'm trying to explain how two-slit diffraction happens, I need to match my numbers against one or more measured instances of such diffraction happening. I must see if the numbers in practice fall where my formula says. If not, it's back to the drawing board. And one can't do that based on just wild unsubstantiated rumours that some people say it happened, but have no actual data to match the theory against.

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Old 10th May 2011, 06:39 PM   #34
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One of the popular rationales as to why ETs come here is that for some reason, their own race is dying out, and that's why they need to steal human genetic material (hence the sexual assaults on abductees). Assuming that's true*, then it makes sense that they're getting stupider and stupider. Obviously their crossbreeding program is working, and more human DNA is working its way into their genome. I mean, look at the humans they choose to abduct---they're not exactly picking up nuclear physicists and brain surgeons now are they


*It's not true
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Old 11th May 2011, 07:05 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Apology View Post
One of the popular rationales as to why ETs come here is that for some reason, their own race is dying out, and that's why they need to steal human genetic material (hence the sexual assaults on abductees). Assuming that's true*, then it makes sense that they're getting stupider and stupider. Obviously their crossbreeding program is working, and more human DNA is working its way into their genome. I mean, look at the humans they choose to abduct---they're not exactly picking up nuclear physicists and brain surgeons now are they


*It's not true
If their idea of a good way to make babies is a probe up the pupr, they should be dying out.
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Old 21st July 2011, 09:37 PM   #36
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Alien Devolution

Perhaps they are devolving ...





j.r.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 03:27 PM   #37
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Second guessing alien motivations seems fairly hopeless.
There's so much human activity that makes no sense.
Consider early human explorations: Great risks were taken for often dubious rewards.


My guess is that they're looking for drugs.
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Old 22nd July 2011, 03:45 PM   #38
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haha, nominated!
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