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Tags health conspiracies , vaccination , vaccine autism myth , vaccines

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Old 9th December 2012, 03:38 PM   #3041
dafydd
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Ack, Clay has wandered off to pastures new, and will not be back until he thinks the heat has died down.
As usual.
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Old 10th December 2012, 02:24 AM   #3042
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Originally Posted by jdc324 View Post
I'll save Clayton the trouble of checking to see whether there was any thimerosal in MMR. I can't think of any other source of "heavy metals" that Clayton might be thinking of. Perhaps if there is something he has in mind he can let us know.

Table 3 here: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...fety/UCM096228 thimerosal content is listed as 0 for MMR

This WHO page explains why it would not be used for MMR: http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/co.../questions/en/ "Many licensed vaccines do not contain thiomersal. Such vaccines include vaccines in single-dose presentation or vaccines for which thiomersal would interfere with vaccine efficacy such as live vaccines including MMR, oral and inactivated polio, yellow fever, and BCG vaccine."
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...fety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative
Quote:
Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines. It is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate. Ethylmercury is an organomercurial that should be distinguished from methylmercury, a related substance that has been the focus of considerable study (see "Guidelines on Exposure to Organomercurials" and "Thimerosal Toxicity", below).
I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.
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Old 10th December 2012, 02:27 AM   #3043
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There are times when you just have understand what is toxic. Mercury in any form is toxic.
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Old 10th December 2012, 02:51 AM   #3044
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Originally Posted by jdc324 View Post
I'll save Clayton the trouble of checking to see whether there was any thimerosal in MMR. I can't think of any other source of "heavy metals" that Clayton might be thinking of. Perhaps if there is something he has in mind he can let us know.

Table 3 here: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...fety/UCM096228 thimerosal content is listed as 0 for MMR

This WHO page explains why it would not be used for MMR: http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/co.../questions/en/ "Many licensed vaccines do not contain thiomersal. Such vaccines include vaccines in single-dose presentation or vaccines for which thiomersal would interfere with vaccine efficacy such as live vaccines including MMR, oral and inactivated polio, yellow fever, and BCG vaccine."
Table of Contents

Preservatives in Vaccines

Quote:
To begin, we need to answer two questions-what are preservatives and why are they used in vaccines. For our purposes, preservatives may be defined as compounds that kill or prevent the growth of microorganisms, particularly bacteria and fungi. They are used in vaccines to prevent microbial growth in the event that the vaccine is accidentally contaminated, as might occur with repeated puncture of multi-dose vials. In some cases, preservatives are added during manufacture to prevent microbial growth; with changes in manufacturing technology, however, the need to add preservatives during the manufacturing process has decreased markedly.

The United States Code of Federal Regulations (the CFR) requires, in general, the addition of a preservative to multi-dose vials of vaccines; indeed, worldwide, preservatives are routinely added to multi-dose vials of vaccine. Tragic consequences have followed the use of multi-dose vials that did not contain a preservative and have served as the impetus for this requirement. One particularly telling incident from Australia is described by Sir Graham S. Wilson in his classic book, The Hazards of Immunization

In January 1928, in the early stages of an immunization campaign against diphtheria, Dr. Ewing George Thomson, Medical Officer of Health of Bundaberg, began the injection of children with toxin-antitoxin mixture. The material was taken from an India-rubber-capped bottle containing 10 mL of TAM. On the 17th, 20th, 21, and 24th January, Dr. Thomson injected subcutaneously a total of 21 children without ill effect. On the 27th a further 21 children were injected.Of these children .eleven died on the 28th and one on the 29th. (Wilson 1967)

How do you think those children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it.

BTW I think

A milliliter is .03 fluid ounces.
10 milliliters is .3 fluid ounces

42 injections from 10 milliliters would be 0.0071428571428571428571428571428571 fluid ounces each.
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Old 10th December 2012, 03:40 AM   #3045
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...fety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative


I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.
I do like these reasoned scientific arguments that you come up with. Still no link with autism.
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Old 10th December 2012, 04:20 AM   #3046
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.
Chlorine is 60% by weight of salt...anyone adding salt to anything must, consequently, be brain dead insane.

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
How do you think those children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it.
They died because the vaccine had no preservative in it. The result was it got contaminated.

Dr Thomson did not realise this, and so used it past its "sell by date".

It's a pretty famous case...
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Old 10th December 2012, 05:53 AM   #3047
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...fety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative


I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.
OK, but what do anthrax jabs have to do with mercury? And while we're at it, what heavy metals are in MMR and MMR-V as you claimed?

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
There are times when you just have understand what is toxic. Mercury in any form is toxic.
Let's see, what is toxic? By Clay-logic that would also be water, sodium chloride, calcium and vitamin d. We'd better not touch any of those right Clay?

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Table of Contents

Preservatives in Vaccines

How do you think those children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it.

BTW I think

A milliliter is .03 fluid ounces.
10 milliliters is .3 fluid ounces

42 injections from 10 milliliters would be 0.0071428571428571428571428571428571 fluid ounces each.
Well Clay since you were so obviously involved with the investigation of these unfortunate deaths, perhaps you would like to share the medical reports. What point are you trying to make with your maths Clay?

Este
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Old 10th December 2012, 06:15 AM   #3048
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
There are times when you just have understand what is toxic. Mercury in any form is toxic.
Selenuim, Clayton.

Too much? you will die

Too little? then you will die.

But you cannot function without this toxin.
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Old 10th December 2012, 06:19 AM   #3049
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Oxygen is a toxin try breathing without it

http://www.ccmtutorials.com/rs/oxygen/page16.htm

"Why is Oxygen considered toxic?

High inspired oxygen concentrations cause toxicity by causing formation of oxygen free radicals (which damage tissues), and by causing absorption atelectasis and V/Q mismatch.

The issue of oxygen toxicity has been topical for a generation, following the discovery that therapeutic oxygen causes blindness in premature babies (retrolental fibroplasias) with respiratory distress syndrome. In addition, it has been established that high inspired concentrations of oxygen may cause acute lung injury, probably due to oxygen free radical production – superoxide, hydroxyl, hydrogen peroxide and singlet O2 molecules. These agents damage biomolecules such as membrane lipids, enzymes and nucleic acids. The extent of injury appears to depend on 1. The FiO2, 2. The duration of exposure, 3. The barometric pressure under which exposure occurred. It appears that the critical FiO2 for toxicity is around 50% (1), above which lung recruitment maneuvers should be condidered (CPAP).

High concentrations of inspired oxygen may cause absorption atelectasis. In addition high FiO2 may cause increased peripheral vascular resistance in congestive heart failure leading to reduced cardiac output."
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Old 10th December 2012, 06:52 AM   #3050
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...fety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative


I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.
See, this is the type of anti-scientific nonsense that clearly shows you have NO idea about any form of chemistry.
While thimerosal might be 50% by weight mercury, its the amount of atoms you get inside you that counts, not a weight ratio.
Your scare site neither mentions that fact, nor the actual amounts of thiosermal used, nor have you adressed the fact that the vaccines you rail agaist do NOT contain thiosermal at all.
Mercury is also not toxic at any level, there is a maximum dosage which is quite well known and which would not be exceeded by the vaccines.
The incident where you claim that 12 of 21 children in 1928 is explicitly mentioned as something that could have been PREVENTED with thimoseral.
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Old 10th December 2012, 08:08 AM   #3051
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Clayton,
Pretty amazing: three posts in a row, and each increasing wrong!
Some hints for future reference:

An angry rant against thiomersal is not an effective response to a post proving MMR vaccines do not have thiomersal.

An angry rant against the toxicity of other forms of mercury is not relevant to the toxicity of thiomersal.

An angry rant against a a tragic occurrence in 1928 that was due to a lack of preservative in a vaccine is not an effective argument against preservatives in vaccines.

A statement such as, "How do you think these children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it!" tends to undermine people's confidence in your medical opinions when, in fact, the children did die of infection. I guess whether you "freaking doubt" something or not is a poor way to determine the truth and to make medical decisions.

Hope that helps.
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Old 10th December 2012, 09:18 AM   #3052
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...fety/UCM096228
Thimerosal as a Preservative


I don't give a crap what any vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that uses or has used a 50% mercury by weight concoction that is/was
to be injected into any child's arm is nothing but brain dead insane.


It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury. Now go get your anthrax shots.
Hi, CM.
What does this have to do autism?

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
...
How do you think those children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it...

Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
...They died because the vaccine had no preservative in it. The result was it got contaminated.

Dr Thomson did not realise this, and so used it past its "sell by date".

It's a pretty famous case...
Ouch.
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Old 10th December 2012, 01:52 PM   #3053
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
There are times when you just have understand what is toxic. Mercury in any form is toxic.
Yes, there are times when you just have understand what is toxic.

What dose of mercury is toxic? (Are all forms of mercury equally toxic?)

Which forms of mercury accumulate in the human body? To what extent?


What does the toxicity of mercury have to do with autism, by the way? Didn't you read the link I gave upthread pointing out that levels of mercury in children with autism were not significantly different from levels in children developing normally? Or the evidence that showed no link between TCV and autism? There was quite a lot of evidence. If you ignored it all, then perhaps I shouldn't be surprised if you still mistakenly believe that mercury in vaccines has anything to do with autism.
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Old 10th December 2012, 02:37 PM   #3054
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Look, apart from there being no thimerosal in MMR, the absense rather than presense of thimerosal being the cause of the deaths, and when thermosal is used the dose is tiny... is there anything wrong with the case for mercury in the MMR causing autism?
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Old 10th December 2012, 02:57 PM   #3055
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Look, apart from there being no thimerosal in MMR, the absense rather than presense of thimerosal being the cause of the deaths, and when thermosal is used the dose is tiny... is there anything wrong with the case for mercury in the MMR causing autism?
That's pretty much it.

(I suppose you could probably add the research that shows no significant differences in mercury levels in those with or without autism. Or all the research that has been conducted that shows no link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism. But they're just trivial details given your first point.)
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Old 10th December 2012, 03:49 PM   #3056
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So, apart from there being no thimerosal in MMR, the absence rather than presence of thimerosal being the cause of the deaths, when thermosal is used the dose is tiny, there being no difference in mercury levels in kids with autism and those without and all the research being against a link.... it's safe to say that the evidence isn't there yet?

I had a flu vaccination about a week ago. Can anybody recommend a natural chelating agent to restore my homeostasis?
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Old 10th December 2012, 08:33 PM   #3057
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I had a flu vaccination about a week ago. Can anybody recommend a natural chelating agent to restore my homeostasis?
I recommend 500 to 1000 ml of dihydrogen monoxide daily.
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Old 10th December 2012, 09:54 PM   #3058
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Originally Posted by Tanalia View Post
I recommend 500 to 1000 ml of dihydrogen monoxide daily.
But stay away from the hydrogen hydroxide -- that stuff's two third hydrogen and will blow up your tummy...
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Old 10th December 2012, 10:58 PM   #3059
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Yeah, but have you ever seen the health effects of oxygen?
Highly dangerous substance that, it can oxidize nearly ANYTHING, and that dihydrogenmonoxide is like almost 90% weight ratio oxygen.
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Old 10th December 2012, 11:09 PM   #3060
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Pffft. Hydrogen hydroxide can corrode solid iron!
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Old 11th December 2012, 12:24 AM   #3061
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Originally Posted by jdc324 View Post
Yes, there are times when you just have understand what is toxic.

What dose of mercury is toxic? (Are all forms of mercury equally toxic?)

Which forms of mercury accumulate in the human body? To what extent?


What does the toxicity of mercury have to do with autism, by the way? Didn't you read the link I gave upthread pointing out that levels of mercury in children with autism were not significantly different from levels in children developing normally? Or the evidence that showed no link between TCV and autism? There was quite a lot of evidence. If you ignored it all, then perhaps I shouldn't be surprised if you still mistakenly believe that mercury in vaccines has anything to do with autism.
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Look, apart from there being no thimerosal in MMR, the absense rather than presense of thimerosal being the cause of the deaths, and when thermosal is used the dose is tiny... is there anything wrong with the case for mercury in the MMR causing autism?

Errr...
The upside is that I for one am learning a lot about the anti-vaxx arguments and what they're worth.
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Old 11th December 2012, 03:26 AM   #3062
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Thanks to the anti vaccinne nutters we are facing a potential problem here in the UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...sation-warning
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Old 11th December 2012, 08:44 AM   #3063
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I prefer methylated carbon dihydrogen hydroxide myself. That stuff works a treat against a number of illnesses.
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Old 11th December 2012, 10:19 AM   #3064
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
Pffft. Hydrogen hydroxide can corrode solid iron!
Do you have any idea how much of that substance children are exposed too? We bathe their entire tiny bodies in it!

Pluss, how terrible is the explosion risk of having massive weights of hydrogen massed with oxygen over two thirds of the planets surface!
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Old 11th December 2012, 10:48 AM   #3065
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Originally Posted by Dcdrac View Post
Thanks to the anti vaccinne nutters we are facing a potential problem here in the UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...sation-warning
The whooping cough outbreak is complicated by the issues with waning immunity after vaccination but, yeah, the anti-vaccinationists aren't helping. Hopefully the new measures (e.g. offering the vaccine to pregnant women, as per the article) will help to protect the most vulnerable. I wonder what effect the anti-vaccinationists have had on the uptake of the pertussis vaccine among pregnant women (i.e. if it weren't for them, would uptake be significantly higher?). Vaccination rates have been pretty good in children so 44% in pregnant women isn't that great.
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Old 11th December 2012, 01:25 PM   #3066
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
It's mercury. Freaking freaking mercury.
It's not mercury. It is not even freaking, freaking mercury!
It is thiomersal - an organic molecule that has sodium, sulfur and mercury atoms in it. It is really ignorant to think that thiomersal has the same toxicity as pure mercury. It is toxic
Quote:
Few studies of the toxicity of thiomersal in humans have been performed. Cases have been reported of severe poisoning by accidental exposure or attempted suicide, with some fatalities.[11] Animal experiments suggest that thiomersal rapidly dissociates to release ethylmercury after injection; that the disposition patterns of mercury are similar to those after exposure to equivalent doses of ethylmercury chloride; and that the central nervous system and the kidneys are targets, with lack of motor coordination being a common sign.
It is not even mercury when broken down in the body. It is not even freaking, freaking mercury when broken down in the body!
It is ethylmercury - Frequently Asked Questions About Thimerosal (Ethylmercury)
Quote:
How does thimerosal work in the body?
Thimerosal does not stay in the body a long time so it does not build up and reach harmful levels. When thimerosal enters the body, it breaks down, to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate, which are easily eliminated.
Your "50% mercury by weight concoction" assertion is quite ignorant - the MMR vaccine was never pure thiomersal !

To use your language: I don't give a crap what any anti-vaccine zombie thinks. Any medical community that does not use or has not used a vaccine containing absolutely no mercury that is/was to be injected into any child's arm to prevent children from catching measles, mumps, and rubella is nothing but brain dead insane.
Frequently Asked Questions About Thimerosal (Ethylmercury)
Quote:
Is thimerosal safe?
Thimerosal has a proven track record of being very safe. Data from many studies show no convincing evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines.
Do MMR vaccines contain thimerosal?
No, measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccines do not and never did contain thimerosal. Varicella (chickenpox), inactivated polio (IPV), and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines have also never contained thimerosal.
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Last edited by Reality Check; 11th December 2012 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 11th December 2012, 01:44 PM   #3067
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
How do you think those children died? Infection? I freaking doubt it.
Your 'freaking' ignorance is showing, Clayton Moore .
The children in the 1928 Bundeberg trial did die of infection.
This was a case that showed the need for preservatives in vaccines!
Thimerosal in Vaccines
Quote:
The United States Code of Federal Regulations (the CFR) requires, in general, the addition of a preservative to multi-dose vials of vaccines; indeed, worldwide, preservatives are routinely added to multi-dose vials of vaccine. Tragic consequences have followed the use of multi-dose vials that did not contain a preservative and have served as the impetus for this requirement. One particularly telling incident from Australia is described by Sir Graham S. Wilson in his classic book, The Hazards of Immunization
In January 1928, in the early stages of an immunization campaign against diphtheria, Dr. Ewing George Thomson, Medical Officer of Health of Bundaberg, began the injection of children with toxin-antitoxin mixture. The material was taken from an India-rubber-capped bottle containing 10 mL of TAM. On the 17th, 20th, 21, and 24th January, Dr. Thomson injected subcutaneously a total of 21 children without ill effect. On the 27th a further 21 children were injected.Of these children .eleven died on the 28th and one on the 29th. (Wilson 1967)
This disaster was investigated by a Royal Commission and the final sentence in the summary of their findings reads as follows:
The consideration of all possible evidence concerning the deaths at Bundeberg points to the injection of living staphylococci as the cause of the fatalities.
From this experience, the Royal Commission recommended that biological products in which the growth of a pathogenic organism is possible should not be issued in containers for repeated use unless there is a sufficient concentration of antiseptic (preservative) to inhibit bacterial growth.
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Old 11th December 2012, 06:48 PM   #3068
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Many people here have noticed that Clayton, more and more, appears to be quoting studies and websites that disprove his own arguments. I sometimes wonder if we finally convinced Clayton as to the importance and safety of vaccines and he has embarked on a subtle campaign to discredit the anti-vaxers.
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Old 11th December 2012, 08:11 PM   #3069
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Robert Prey thinks that arguments can be refuted by simply saying 'baloney'.

Clayton Moore thinks that arguments can be refuted by simply changing the font size and color of words.

You really can't argue with that approach. (I know you can't because we have been doing so for 76 pages now with no effect...)
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Old 12th December 2012, 03:30 PM   #3070
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Chlorine is 60% by weight of salt...anyone adding salt to anything must, consequently, be brain dead insane.
Clayton, this has been pointed out to you previously on this thread.

Why isn't table salt poisonous when it contains a toxic element such as chlorine?

This is a very simple question. Show us you have a clue and answer it.
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Old 12th December 2012, 04:20 PM   #3071
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Originally Posted by Tomblvd View Post
Clayton, this has been pointed out to you previously on this thread.

Why isn't table salt poisonous when it contains a toxic element such as chlorine?

This is a very simple question. Show us you have a clue and answer it.
You're completely ignoring the sodium. Adding sodium to water causes a reaction so hot the sodium melts, which leads to the water itself burning or even exploding.

And yet sodium chloride is perfectly safe.

I wonder what this could mean for mercury and thiomersal.
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Old 12th December 2012, 06:25 PM   #3072
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Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
I wonder what this could mean for mercury and thiomersal.
Obviously this means that thiomersal containing vaccines are contraindicated for people with gold fillings since the mercury will react with the gold fillings and they will drop out !
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Old 12th December 2012, 08:08 PM   #3073
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Sorry Clayton vaccines do NOT cause autism.

Organic foods cause autism.


http://i.imgur.com/1WZ6h.png



ETA: Thanks Joesixpack for solving that little mystery!
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Old 12th December 2012, 08:50 PM   #3074
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Originally Posted by jdc324 View Post
The whooping cough outbreak is complicated by the issues with waning immunity after vaccination but, yeah, the anti-vaccinationists aren't helping. Hopefully the new measures (e.g. offering the vaccine to pregnant women, as per the article) will help to protect the most vulnerable. I wonder what effect the anti-vaccinationists have had on the uptake of the pertussis vaccine among pregnant women (i.e. if it weren't for them, would uptake be significantly higher?). Vaccination rates have been pretty good in children so 44% in pregnant women isn't that great.
The ludicrousness is stunning. No nothing into a pregnant woman's body to protect the unborn baby yet vaccines are okie dokie.
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Old 12th December 2012, 09:01 PM   #3075
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Your 'freaking' ignorance is showing, Clayton Moore .
The children in the 1928 Bundeberg trial did die of infection.
This was a case that showed the need for preservatives in vaccines!
Thimerosal in Vaccines
I doubt that any of them died of an infection in less than a day.
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Old 12th December 2012, 09:59 PM   #3076
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
The ludicrousness is stunning. No nothing into a pregnant woman's body to protect the unborn baby yet vaccines are okie dokie.

If it protects the baby from diseases, why shouldn't they be?
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Old 12th December 2012, 10:12 PM   #3077
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
I doubt that any of them died of an infection in less than a day.
Yes that is clear, which again shows how extremely little you seem to understand about the immune system and infecteous diseases.
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Old 12th December 2012, 10:26 PM   #3078
Chris Haynes
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
The ludicrousness is stunning. No nothing into a pregnant woman's body to protect the unborn baby yet vaccines are okie dokie.
So any chance you'll answer my question? All I am asking for is the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed journal that shows there is a greater risk from the MMR vaccine than there is from actually getting measles. You know the disease that causes pneumonia and encephalitis in lots of cases, as noted in The Clinical Significance of Measles: A Review.

Though I think you might tell us how much mercury is in the American version of the MMR vaccine. That would be interesting to know.

You might also tell us which vaccine on the American pediatric schedule is only available with thimerosal. You did post the FDA list, and I noticed half of the influenza vaccines do not have thimerosal. So I was wonder which ones are actually full of the stuff.
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Old 12th December 2012, 10:30 PM   #3079
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Originally Posted by ehcks View Post
You're completely ignoring the sodium. Adding sodium to water causes a reaction so hot the sodium melts, which leads to the water itself burning or even exploding.

And yet sodium chloride is perfectly safe.

I wonder what this could mean for mercury and thiomersal.
To be fair, mercurycompounds and ions are always toxic.
Of course so is anything if taken to excess, but the thresholds for mercury compounds are low.
But well known and researched, which is why in a vaccine the amounts are calibrated to ensure that any injection will remain well below such a treshold.
And since the halflife of the mercury compound generated by thiomersal is measured in days, the body will purge itself of the mercury over a relatively short time. Provided you don't immediately inject more it is therefore safe.
Of course, replacing it with methods that do not require a toxic compound at all if preferable, which is why most vaccines no longer require the compound.
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Old 12th December 2012, 10:39 PM   #3080
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
I doubt that any of them died of an infection in less than a day.
My aunt had polio. Never had any relationship, lived all her life without. Rickets and polio meant she never lived above 4'6", and never walked without a stick. To you, this is good.
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