ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags bigfoot

Reply
Old 23rd June 2011, 11:20 PM   #361
xblade
Muse
 
xblade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
I agree but what can you do? Hopefully peer review will expose the nonsense but it will undoubtedly be published somewhere. Science is just not very good at dealing with hoaxers.

The believers are typically climate change denialists, conspiracy theorists, paranormalists etc without a college degree. They have no idea about probability, statistics, anatomy, zoology or genetics. The exploiters are making money feeding them what they want to hear.
Not sure why you'd throw climate change denialists in there, considering that's just about the biggest scam going. Even worse, the climate change scam screws all of us, whereas bigfoot doesn't really hurt anyone but those who choose to waste their own money chasing it.
xblade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:12 AM   #362
DennyT
Master Poster
 
DennyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,566
Lol conspiracy theory.
__________________
previously known as parnassus
DennyT is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 07:14 AM   #363
Howie Felterbush
Bow Tie Daddy
 
Howie Felterbush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the twilight, singing all the old lullabies
Posts: 6,447
Originally Posted by xblade View Post
Not sure why you'd throw climate change denialists in there, considering that's just about the biggest scam going. Even worse, the climate change scam screws all of us, whereas bigfoot doesn't really hurt anyone but those who choose to waste their own money chasing it.

Tell that to the pig.
__________________
"Don't be too offended by the likes of him - I hear he doesn't even own ascots." -JoeyDonuts
"I must be more tired than I thought. Howie, you are starting to make sense." -MG1962
"You're a mean old evil cynic. And mean." Halfcentaur
Howie Felterbush is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 08:06 AM   #364
The Shrike
Master Poster
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,734
Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
a. There are some pretty bad journals in my field and i suspect in other fields as well.
b. It probably hinges on the honesty and credibility of those who submitted the samples.
Well, the bone sample apparently came from these loons, and the "tissue sample" is supposedly from a habituation site in Vermont. What kind of reject from a turnip truck could not see the importance of confirming the provenance of these samples? This seems far sketchier than anything Meldrum used for his ichnotaxon paper.
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 08:17 AM   #365
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,429
The Ketchum/DNA discussion is off topic for this thread. It would be more appropriate in the Bigfoot DNA thread.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 09:21 AM   #366
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,429
Originally Posted by C_Felix
On a message board, Crytomundo I believe, Matt Moneymaker is claiming that the producers of the show are editing it in a style that makes it sensational and therefore missing the real science they are doing.
Originally Posted by William Parcher
What real science are they doing?
Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
I really don't know.

But, I'd like to at least give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to knowing how and where to set up camera traps and what not.

I'm sure if they could land some "real" footage of bigfoot, something that would have people really wondering, I'm sure they monetary payoff would be huge.

That might just be a tad bit of a motivator.

We are talking about BFRO guys who are also on the Finding Bigfoot cast. It is apparent that the producers are allowing these guys to bring previously acquired evidence to the show. These are things like the McKenzie River video, the road crossing video from Georgia, the glass door handprint, mud prints on the street, etc. The BFRO had already approved these things as being good evidence for Bigfoot before they were included in the program.

The BFRO seems to be pulling from their good stuff which has been presented to them from people across the country. We know that the Silver Star Mountain photos are coming up in another episode. The program has not shown the Jacobs Creature trail camera pics, Memorial Day video, New York baby video, Freeman video, Skookum Cast, etc. but these could be used for future episodes. I suspect that the BFRO would name the PGF as being the best evidence for Bigfoot so far to date. Maybe they will somehow work that into a future episode.

So the producers don't seem to be preventing the BFRO guys from showing their good stuff from the past as well as letting them use high-technology during their outings for the program itself. Are you saying that the producers aren't, but should, allow the guys to put up some camera traps so that they can get pictures or video which are way better than anything previously acquired?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 09:35 AM   #367
Drewbot
Illuminator
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,519
I wonder if they will talk about the piles of Ice and wood chips that they found on one expedition. I think Bartlojays was defending those on BFF.

(The ice/wood chips were thought to be BIGFOOT refrigerators)

http://www.bfro.net/news/roundup/sie...now_mounds.asp

Sierra Snow Mounds
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic

Last edited by Drewbot; 24th June 2011 at 09:39 AM.
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 10:32 AM   #368
DennyT
Master Poster
 
DennyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,566
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I wonder if they will talk about the piles of Ice and wood chips that they found on one expedition. I think Bartlojays was defending those on BFF.

(The ice/wood chips were thought to be BIGFOOT refrigerators)

http://www.bfro.net/news/roundup/sie...now_mounds.asp

Sierra Snow Mounds
Wow that snow "mound" stuff is some hilarious "finding bigfoot" type baloney. Isn't this the same Robert Leiterman who hikes around Bluff Creek with BFBM ??
__________________
previously known as parnassus
DennyT is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:06 PM   #369
atpeace
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
The part I bolded can never occur because any decent researcher quickly figures out that there is no such animal as bigfoot.
All that's left are the crooks and the wackos.
All that is left are the crooks and wackos? I don't believe that. I am not a wacko or a crook yet I was very curious at one time and so have/are many others who are not crooks or wackos.

And just how quickly would he "figure it out" as a done deal?

My point is how "woo" is handled. Its a free country woo isn't a crime. It is going to exist.
atpeace is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:34 PM   #370
GT/CS
Illuminator
 
GT/CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,274
Do you claim to be a bigfoot researcher or a bigfoot expert? Do you sell your supposed bigfoot expertise?

We're talking about so-called researchers, not everyday people.

Anyone who seriously studies the bigfoot phenomenom quickly learns that there is no solid evidence for bigfoot and therefore the beast does not exist.

The 'researchers' who claim to be experts are in it for the fame and/or the money, or other reasons, one of which is mental instability. So what it comes down to is some are knowingly living a lie and the others are unknowingly living a lie.
__________________
SweatyYeti or Bill Munns would be my vote for looking at this - BFSleuth @ BFF
I've got plenty of common sense! I just choose to ignore it. - Calvin; October 15, 1986
GT/CS is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:42 PM   #371
DennyT
Master Poster
 
DennyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,566
bigfootery is a scam, a money-making deception, and a misleading idea for school chuildren. If it were presented like Bambi and Cinderella no one would care. Some threads at JREF are devoted to cold fusion, some to quackery, some to bigfoot, some to religion, etc. Take your pick. It's a free country. Counter-woo should and will be available. Don't like it? Don't read it. Simple.
__________________
previously known as parnassus
DennyT is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:50 PM   #372
atpeace
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
Do you claim to be a bigfoot researcher or a bigfoot expert? Do you sell your supposed bigfoot expertise?

We're talking about so-called researchers, not everyday people.

Anyone who seriously studies the bigfoot phenomenom quickly learns that there is no solid evidence for bigfoot and therefore the beast does not exist.

The 'researchers' who claim to be experts are in it for the fame and/or the money, or other reasons, one of which is mental instability. So what it comes down to is some are knowingly living a lie and the others are unknowingly living a lie.
Yes, but at any given time your are going to have woo and those investigating woo. So at any time you may have a sincere researcher. And corrrectly, that researcher would probably not be one for long, but research will still continuously be happening. And can be nothing like the researchers and research on Finging Bigfoot, etc. Again, my point is about how this continuing bf phenomon is handled by researchers.

And yes, I am an expert on bigfoot and would claim such.
There is no one definition of "an expert on bigfoot".
atpeace is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 04:21 PM   #373
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,702
Woo is often a crime, imo. It's also often a terrible ride for those affected by it.

People get scammed out of their money, families are broken up, friendships are ruined, people waste their life savings, grant money is wasted, etc.

People are getting scammed by bigfoot hucksters as we speak.

Whether it's $100K scientific grant money down the toilet, or $50K to buy a fake rubber bigfoot in an ice chest, or $25K for a fake bigfoot movie, or $500 to get close to bigfoot in the woods...it's often money that people or organizations can't afford to waste...
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

Last edited by LTC8K6; 24th June 2011 at 04:23 PM.
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 04:35 PM   #374
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,429
Barackman reviews the Oregon episode.

All those people who raised their hands at the Beer & Bigfoot tavern gathering and were later featured were folks who had already submitted their encounters to BFRO before the episode filming. Cliff even says that one of the fishing guys (with the red-eyed Bigfoot encounter) was already a friend of his. So those people weren't random strangers met at the tavern. They had already been BFRO approved.

Cliff talks about the recorded "coyote" responses. He says they were Squatch and that there were two of them howling. He also had his opportunity to say that the producers dubbed in substitute sounds... but he didn't say that. So that makes me think we heard what they heard. Coyotes.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 05:46 PM   #375
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,429
If Bigfoot vocalizations sound just like a coyote then there are going to be problems. Bigfoots are going to be confused when they hear coyotes. Coyotes are going to be confused when they hear Bigfoots.

Tree knocks don't make sense for Bigfoot as communication. Why would you do that if your own voice can carry long distances?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:08 PM   #376
Drewbot
Illuminator
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,519
The natural sounds occur in the wild. There are no bigfoot in the wild.

No bigfooter has been able to locate evidence of bigfoot, this 'evidence' is required to justify continued investment of time, and money in the Bigfoot hobby.

A coyote call is one of the most varied calls heard in the woods at night, they have dozens of different sounds. Yips, howls, locator howls, and others. Most of the general public know only of the standard locator howl (oww OWWWW). The other sounds are tailor-made to be ID'd as bigfoot. The eerie,steange call of a lone Coyote, presented to an angry wife, or a sad child (dad was bigfooting during his/her school play, for example), might purchase some leniency from the doubters.

These coyote ('yotes as the footers like to call them) calls really do sound eerie and awesome to TV viewers.
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:12 PM   #377
atpeace
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Woo is often a crime, imo. It's also often a terrible ride for those affected by it.

People get scammed out of their money, families are broken up, friendships are ruined, people waste their life savings, grant money is wasted, etc.

People are getting scammed by bigfoot hucksters as we speak.

Whether it's $100K scientific grant money down the toilet, or $50K to buy a fake rubber bigfoot in an ice chest, or $25K for a fake bigfoot movie, or $500 to get close to bigfoot in the woods...it's often money that people or organizations can't afford to waste...
Of course scammers will use anything (woo or through other means) to scam others, but a belief in, meetings around, discussions of, clubs for, research into, etc any paranormal or cryptid is not a crime. And not all bf "experts" "researchers" "hobbyists" or otherwise are necesssarily scammers. For me that is the problem with ALL woo. It is not the woo itself-- let em believe in anything, I don't care. It is the way woo is such an easy scam that sucks. In no way did I say that I think bfing is a good place to put your money. The only claim I tried to make was if the Finding Bigfoot researchers were sincere and cared about sorting fact from speculation and fiction for their admiring public, they would handle everything differently. I mean, I can pick up my dog's crap with a scooper or my hands.
atpeace is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:17 PM   #378
xblade
Muse
 
xblade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
Tell that to the pig.
The pig was into it.
xblade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:19 PM   #379
atpeace
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
...Tree knocks don't make sense for Bigfoot as communication. Why would you do that if your own voice can carry long distances?
They seem to like to attribute known primate behaviors to BF. Easier than making up new ones I guess?
atpeace is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:21 PM   #380
xblade
Muse
 
xblade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 500
Quote:
Whether it's $100K scientific grant money down the toilet, or $50K to buy a fake rubber bigfoot in an ice chest, or $25K for a fake bigfoot movie, or $500 to get close to bigfoot in the woods...it's often money that people or organizations can't afford to waste...
Then they probably shouldn't waste it. No one is forcing them to waste money they don't have on fairy tales.
xblade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:25 PM   #381
xblade
Muse
 
xblade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by atpeace View Post
They seem to like to attribute known primate behaviors to BF. Easier than making up new ones I guess?
Except that wood knocking is most likely a made up primate attribute, lol. After doing a web search a year or so ago, it seems the only folks who attribute wood knocking to primates are bigfooters.
xblade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:36 PM   #382
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,702
Originally Posted by xblade View Post
Then they probably shouldn't waste it. No one is forcing them to waste money they don't have on fairy tales.
Well, we shouldn't let con men prey on the gullible if we can help it.

Of course, we are pretty much doing all we can by debunking as much as we can.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:36 PM   #383
atpeace
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by xblade View Post
Except that wood knocking is most likely a made up primate attribute, lol. After doing a web search a year or so ago, it seems the only folks who attribute wood knocking to primates are bigfooters.
*Noted* Another reason not to believe everything I read on the IN without checking it out. I'll see if I can find any reliable source citing.
atpeace is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:44 PM   #384
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,702
They must be attracted to baseball games...
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 06:51 PM   #385
atpeace
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 208
page 185 of Meldrum's Legend Meets Science references this type of behavior (drumming on trees, etc) noted by some primatologist. Don't have the book so I can't say what came on the pages before or after . I am not relying on Meldrum's opinion here. Chris Boesch is cited I can find a primatologist from Leipzig Germany by that name and he has a website.
atpeace is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2011, 12:05 PM   #386
xblade
Muse
 
xblade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Well, we shouldn't let con men prey on the gullible if we can help it.

Of course, we are pretty much doing all we can by debunking as much as we can.
I agree, to a point. But I don't think anyone is going broke by believing in bigfoot, as silly as it is. Heck, I'd be willing to bet most people who sign up for bigfoot tours don't even believe he exists, and are just doing it to have something to do.
xblade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2011, 12:15 PM   #387
xblade
Muse
 
xblade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by atpeace View Post
*Noted* Another reason not to believe everything I read on the IN without checking it out. I'll see if I can find any reliable source citing.
The only reason I checked it out is because I noticed a pattern of 9/11 Truthers making up their own facts/science, and saw similar things happening among footers, so one night I decided to check into it, and I couldn't find anything. Now, that doesn't mean it's not there, of course, but if something like that is such a well-known primate attribute, it shouldn't be so hard to find, and there would be more people talking about it than just bigfoot believers.
xblade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2011, 01:46 PM   #388
River
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,494
Originally Posted by xblade View Post
Except that wood knocking is most likely a made up primate attribute, lol. After doing a web search a year or so ago, it seems the only folks who attribute wood knocking to primates are bigfooters.

Yeah those damn bigfooters are attributing that to primates all over the place apparently.

Source:

Quote:
In an 85-square-kilometer swath of rainforest in Côte d'Ivoire's Taï National Park, monkeys call to one another, chimps drum on tree trunks, and tiny antelopes rustle through the underbrush. That's where researchers have been studying primate communities for more than 3 decades.
Source:

Quote:
Chimpanzees are playful and curious creatures that are perfectly designed for their environment; in the wild, they are elusive and normally disappear when they spot a human intruder. Frenzies of excitement which include, pant hooting, screaming and at times drumming on tree trunks are ways chimpanzee communicate or call for contact

Read more: http://www.bukisa.com/articles/34212...#ixzz1QK3Y8tFW
Source:

Quote:
Wild chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) generate low-frequency sounds that are audible to humans from a distance of at least 1 km away by hitting the buttresses of trees with their hands and feet.

It's pretty well known that some "primates" (that includes humans/footers right?? lol) do indeed beat on trees to communicate or signal with each other. Maybe they're just trying to play moby dick. Or with it? haha. (led zep humor for those that dont get it)
River is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2011, 02:17 PM   #389
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,429
Originally Posted by River View Post
It's pretty well known that some "primates" (that includes humans/footers right?? lol) do indeed beat on trees to communicate or signal with each other.

My understanding is that chimpanzees will bang on trees with sticks, hands and feet as part of an excited aggressive display which also includes vocalizations and sometimes foliage shaking. I've never heard of tree banging used as a form of communication over distance.

My understanding is that they bang on trees when fighting with each other, fighting with another troop, or when facing predators such as leopards.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2011, 02:59 PM   #390
mikeyx
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,570
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
My understanding is that chimpanzees will bang on trees with sticks, hands and feet as part of an excited aggressive display which also includes vocalizations and sometimes foliage shaking. I've never heard of tree banging used as a form of communication over distance.

My understanding is that they bang on trees when fighting with each other, fighting with another troop, or when facing predators such as leopards.
But.......... they do it, and the high and mighty all knowing so and so was proven wrong. shucks.
mikeyx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 09:00 AM   #391
The Shrike
Master Poster
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,734
When it suits your needs, equate putative bigfoot behaviors to similar behaviors documented in chimps, gorillas, and orangutans.

When it suits your needs, try to make the case that bigfoot makes fire (little ones), has religion (Christian religion), and speaks a dialect of Spanish that could've been heard in Mexico in the 16th Century. (That is, except for those Gulf Coast bigfoots that speak French.)
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 12:04 PM   #392
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,429
These chimps are certainly capable of picking up sticks but they also seem pretty much inept with using them as clubs or knockers.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 04:38 PM   #393
xblade
Muse
 
xblade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 500
Originally Posted by River View Post
Yeah those damn bigfooters are attributing that to primates all over the place apparently.

Source:
I didn't say they didn't beat on trees, I said primate wood knocking as claimed by most bigfooters is most likely made up, and I stand by that. I also said that it's mostly bigfooters making the primate wood knocking claim. Click here, and tell me how many non-footer sources you find. Or here. Or here.

From the introduction of one of your source document linked above:

"Long distance nonvocal acoustic signals are rare in primates. Many species incorporate branch-shaking into aggressive displays, but the acoustic aspect of this signal appears secondary to the visual component. The best-described nonvocal acoustic signal among primates is chest beating in mountain gorillas.

Chimpanzees generate accoustic signals by hitting a variety of substrates with their hands and/or feet, including their chests, the ground, tree trunks, and the buttresses of trees.(Goodall)"


I stand by my original statement that tree knocking by primates as described by footers is most likely made up, or at the least, embellished.

Quote:
It's pretty well known that some "primates" (that includes humans/footers right?? lol) do indeed beat on trees to communicate or signal with each other. Maybe they're just trying to play moby dick. Or with it? haha. (led zep humor for those that dont get it)
I'd be willing to bet all the wood knocking as described by footers is being done by humans/footers, and not gorillas or chimpanzees, and certainly not bigfoot. Having said that, I have no doubt that in the history of apes and chimps, there have been some apes or chimps that may have banged on a tree with a piece of wood a time or two. I just don't think it's a well known ape/chimp behavior, any more than smoking is because some apes/chimps have been known to smoke. But of course, as stated earlier, I could be wrong.

Last edited by xblade; 26th June 2011 at 04:48 PM.
xblade is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 06:49 PM   #394
atpeace
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by xblade View Post
I didn't say they didn't beat on trees, I said primate wood knocking as claimed by most bigfooters is most likely made up, and I stand by that. I also said that it's mostly bigfooters making the primate wood knocking claim. Click here, and tell me how many non-footer sources you find. Or here. Or here.

From the introduction of one of your source document linked above:

"Long distance nonvocal acoustic signals are rare in primates. Many species incorporate branch-shaking into aggressive displays, but the acoustic aspect of this signal appears secondary to the visual component. The best-described nonvocal acoustic signal among primates is chest beating in mountain gorillas.

Chimpanzees generate accoustic signals by hitting a variety of substrates with their hands and/or feet, including their chests, the ground, tree trunks, and the buttresses of trees.(Goodall)"

I stand by my original statement that tree knocking by primates as described by footers is most likely made up, or at the least, embellished.



I'd be willing to bet all the wood knocking as described by footers is being done by humans/footers, and not gorillas or chimpanzees, and certainly not bigfoot. Having said that, I have no doubt that in the history of apes and chimps, there have been some apes or chimps that may have banged on a tree with a piece of wood a time or two. I just don't think it's a well known ape/chimp behavior, any more than smoking is because some apes/chimps have been known to smoke. But of course, as stated earlier, I could be wrong.
I agree. But isn't that part of the scammer game? Using bits of truth or facts or information to then add truth or credibility or confusion or whatever... to their charade. Though, I realize we are dealing with a made up animal but you get what I mean. Besides I think bigfoot lore (its habits and behaviors and physical appearance etc) plays out like the game "telephone" between footers.

bolding in quote mine ap

Last edited by atpeace; 26th June 2011 at 06:52 PM.
atpeace is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 07:09 PM   #395
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,702
They just said there was chest muscle definition in the Silver Star photos...
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 07:17 PM   #396
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,702
They duplicated the photos with Bobo, but they still rationalize it into a bigfoot...
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 07:18 PM   #397
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,702
http://www.portlandhikers.org/forum/...p=15490#p15490
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 07:19 PM   #398
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,702
Just claimed...Bigfoots commonly whistle, they don't understand words, but they understand gestures...
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 07:21 PM   #399
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,702
"that sounds squatchy"
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2011, 07:25 PM   #400
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,702
MM just said the Silver Star photos were compelling evidence of bigfoot...

MM also said that squatches mumble like people talking in the woods, right after they heard people talking in the woods...

Apparently, if you hear people talking in the woods, you've actually heard sasquatch.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

Last edited by LTC8K6; 26th June 2011 at 07:28 PM.
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:48 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.