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Old 13th June 2011, 09:49 AM   #241
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I agree with that, however, if they truly know there is no Bigfoot, then one of the most likely options is that he is charging an armed hunter in the middle of the night.
No. MM had a clear view of the subject and you can bet that he would have seen swinging arms with no gun. As you close the distance with increasing certainty that it is a human you call out "Hey there" or "Hold on a second, let's talk". If you see them stop and raise a gun at you then hit the dirt and holler "Don't shoot".
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Old 13th June 2011, 09:51 AM   #242
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Actually, the most likely option is that you are seeing a shill put there by the production crew, not a hunter.
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Old 13th June 2011, 10:05 AM   #243
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What evidence do we have of MM saying what he claims to have said?

Is this intruder mentioned later in the show when they do the wrap up?

How can we believe that when they did what they did with the candy bar recreation? No one cut that...

They said themselves that it must be a juvenile squatch that took the candy, not the producers.

MM said a sasquatch killled the deer, not the producers.

MM said powerline cuts were sasquatch highways for deer hunting, not the producers.
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Old 13th June 2011, 10:12 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
No. MM had a clear view of the subject and you can bet that he would have seen swinging arms with no gun. As you close the distance with increasing certainty that it is a human you call out "Hey there" or "Hold on a second, let's talk". If you see them stop and raise a gun at you then hit the dirt and holler "Don't shoot".
Nope. You don't charge a human in the first place. You just yell "hello" or "hey you over there" etc.

You would only charge if you were crazy, or if you already knew what was going on, imo.

It would be common to carry a handgun for protection in the woods. It would be common to be scared and shoot at something charging you in the woods in the dark.

Much better to just yell "hey you on the hill, can I come up and talk"
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Old 13th June 2011, 10:27 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Nope. You don't charge a human in the first place. You just yell "hello" or "hey you over there" etc.

You would only charge if you were crazy, or if you already knew what was going on, imo.

It would be common to carry a handgun for protection in the woods. It would be common to be scared and shoot at something charging you in the woods in the dark.

Much better to just yell "hey you on the hill, can I come up and talk"
But the context of this particular situation is different. First, I don't think that Moneymaker actually believes that Bigfoot exists in the first place. He knows that they are out in the middle of nowhere and the idea of a sudden curious bystander or hunter is absurd. The instant he sees the figure he knows it's a guy and three seconds later he deduces that it is a shill put there by the producers. He knows he is in no danger chasing after this guy and giving the producers what they want in the process. He breaks off his pursuit because he knows that he will only encounter the shill and therefore ruin the whole fantasy game that the producers and cast are playing with each other throughout all of the episodes.

He knows not to fully pull back the curtain that hides the Wizard.
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Old 13th June 2011, 10:31 AM   #246
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That shill was there to be seen on thermal cam, but would also be there to return any wood knocks or howls if that is what the cast chose to do.
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Old 13th June 2011, 10:32 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That shill was there to be seen on thermal cam, but would also be there to return any wood knocks or howls if that is what the cast chose to do.
Yes, and we'll hear them returning calls in the next episode.
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Old 13th June 2011, 10:33 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
But the context of this particular situation is different. First, I don't think that Moneymaker actually believes that Bigfoot exists in the first place. He knows that they are out in the middle of nowhere and the idea of a sudden curious bystander or hunter is absurd. The instant he sees the figure he knows it's a guy and three seconds later he deduces that it is a shill put there by the producers. He knows he is in no danger chasing after this guy and giving the producers what they want in the process. He breaks off his pursuit because he knows that he will only encounter the shill and therefore ruin the whole fantasy game that the producers and cast are playing with each other throughout all of the episodes.

He knows not to fully pull back the curtain that hides the Wizard.
Yes, MM already knew what was going on. That's what I said.
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Old 13th June 2011, 11:32 AM   #249
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LOL the thermal/candy bar video is debunked. Bobo's clothing did not show up on the image like the footers said it would.

Green's subject could have been a man wearing clothes. If it was a man it wasnt some guy crawling around the forest at 3am without the knowledge of Green. Mike Green videoed himself IMHO. I imagine he did it as sort of a test and couldn't resist putting it out as real.
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Old 13th June 2011, 12:07 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
What evidence do we have of MM saying what he claims to have said?

Is this intruder mentioned later in the show when they do the wrap up?

How can we believe that when they did what they did with the candy bar recreation? No one cut that...

They said themselves that it must be a juvenile squatch that took the candy, not the producers.

MM said a sasquatch killled the deer, not the producers.

MM said powerline cuts were sasquatch highways for deer hunting, not the producers.
Agreed.
IMO M.M. saw just how idiotic the program is and is trying to disassociate himself from it. The easiest way to do this is to blame production company.
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Old 13th June 2011, 12:25 PM   #251
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And the end of the show, they are talking with Mike Green at a roundtable, and they all agree that the creature on the hill could have been a squatch. Mike Green even chimes in something like "Out there where you were? Oh I have no doubt it was a squatch"

Which is an attempt to make his video more 'credible', but if MM knew that was a person on the hill, why is he saying it wasn't in the round table wrap up?
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Old 13th June 2011, 12:31 PM   #252
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More...

Originally Posted by Matt Moneymaker
The thing I ran up the hill after was a human — someone who was sneaking around us in the woods trying to watch the production in progress. I said so repeatedly and vehemently at the time, for the cameras, but they edited out all of that in order to make it seem unclear what I was chasing after. They wanted to "preserve some mystery" ... at my expense.

I was the only one who got a good look at it through a thermal imager. It was quite clear that it was person wearing clothes and struggling to flank the hillside. I showed the thermal screen to a camera guy and he immediately agreed .. "Yeah, that's a person up there."

The video they showed was substituted in (as they typically do), and wasn’t anything like what I saw.

When they showed a thermal clip with a circle around a thermal figure running up the hill ... that figure is actually ME chasing after the thing ... ironically.

It was pretty bizarre for me to watch that scene ... because I was yelling "IT'S A HUMAN !!" during the conversation with Bobo and Ranae, and I said it so many times that I felt certain that the field producers would not be able to cut it out and thereby distort what really happened ... but they did.

The production crew did not have my thermal imager plugged into the recorder when this happened. If I had recorded some footage myself they probably would not have used it, except for a brief flash, because it would have clearly shown a human, out-of-breath and clumsily struggling to flank the hillside. There was nothing spooky about it.

As a matter of fact, the person seemed so out of breath and struggling that I figured he would be easy to catch up to. That's the main reason I ran up there.

When I got to the top of the hill I made a wrong turn and ran all the way down to a creek on one side of the hill, but the person apparently didn't go that direction. I returned to the top of the hill and then went in a different direction but ran into a wall of brush ... by that point the person had enough of a head start to be able to get away.
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Old 13th June 2011, 02:31 PM   #253
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re: post #252

I am quite shocked that there is such shenanigans going on

I'd rename the show "Anything You Can Do We Can Do (it up) Better"
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Old 13th June 2011, 04:03 PM   #254
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Poor Matt...those evil producers keep making him look like he believes in bigfoot...
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Old 13th June 2011, 07:41 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
They are both left feet.
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Old 13th June 2011, 09:27 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
And the end of the show, they are talking with Mike Green at a roundtable, and they all agree that the creature on the hill could have been a squatch. Mike Green even chimes in something like "Out there where you were? Oh I have no doubt it was a squatch"

Which is an attempt to make his video more 'credible', but if MM knew that was a person on the hill, why is he saying it wasn't in the round table wrap up?
Exactly, it completely contradicts what MM is claiming.

And as far as Green's image why didn't they search for any DNA evidence or even mention it? You have an animal crawling and groping and rubbing and eating around a rough stump.
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Old 14th June 2011, 08:15 AM   #257
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Here is the North Carolina episode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3-Bx...layer_embedded
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Old 14th June 2011, 11:45 AM   #258
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Cliff Barackman is saying that the hillside thermal cam biped may have been a Bigfoot after all...

Originally Posted by Cliff Barackman
Matt yelled at it, "Identify yourself!" Whatever it was froze in mid-stride on one leg and just stood there for a few brief seconds.

At this point, I turned my thermal imager to the same direction in which Matt was looking. What I saw was a man-shaped figure moving from left to right across my thermal's LCD screen. It swung its arms as it walked, but in a strange way, almost like a wader would as he pulls himself through water. Its legs moved in a peculiar fashion, similar to the way legs move when one rides a bike. The upper torso smoothly lurched (if that makes any sense) as it moved. It indeed had a very unusual gait. As was noted by both Ranae and I, the figure was one color from head to toe, indicating that it was probably not wearing any clothing (thermal imagers only see heat, and where one is wearing clothing, less heat radiates outward to the environment). Also of note is that the figure was navigating the hill without a light in complete darkness.

Right then, Matt took off after it running up the hill. Two camera men saw television happening right before their eyes and launched into action, following Matt towards the figure. I saw Matt and the two camera men in my thermal right as the figure disappeared over the top of the hill.

Knowing that whatever I had just seen could only be a bigfoot or a human, I thought it unwise to approach the figure directly. I moved off to my right along the base of the hill hoping to catch a glimpse of the figure from another angle. My adrenaline was pumping madly, and the thought of having just captured thermal footage of a sasquatch was blowing my mind.

I did not see the figure again, and I later found out that Matt never caught up to it. Matt was armed with both a thermal imager and a night vision monocular, and both camera men had star light scopes on their cameras. The figure only had a 50 yard head start. The pursuers completely lost all trace of this mysterious figure in a matter of a few moments...

...a loud grunt/growl came from the woods above me. It sounded like a guttural, "Huuuh!," and was emanating from the same general area where the bipedal figure disappeared a while before. Bobo also heard the same noise. Though we had not shot the Florida episode yet, it was the same kind of grunt/growl that we would later hear on the Bridges' property. Looking back, perhaps it was the bigfoot having the last laugh on us.

It should be noted that Matt really did think that the figure was a human. In fact, he still does. I am less than sure of this, but he could be correct. He told me that he could see clothing on it, but I have a different memory of what I saw...

I cannot seem to make up my mind about that night. Did I see a bigfoot through my thermal imager, or was it a very strange human? I don't know. Based on the context, behavior, gait, and later vocalization, I kind of think that I finally got to see a bigfoot, but I honestly don't really know. Worse yet, I never will.
He seems to be saying that the three guys we see together on the thermal were Matt followed by two production cameramen. Sure enough, the dude on the hill let out a grunt growl. Sounded the same as when they were in Florida at the birdfeeder house. Maybe it's the same shill traveling with the circus. And again Bigfoot legs are said to move like a bicycle rider.
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Old 14th June 2011, 12:03 PM   #259
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A few years ago I made my first trip to Glacier National Park,MT. When you go there you are reminded by many people on how to behave and react in bear country and, as a result I think, I began to see bears behind every tree. Cliff Barackman reminds me of that time. He seems to be a complete believer seeing bigfoot everywhere and is enthusiastic about all things bigfoot. I have been to Glacier 10 times now and have learned there are not bears behind every tree but I think Cliff will never reach that point. He dicusses the thermal image saying that the figure probably was not clothed when the recreation of the candy bar incident shows Bobo looking just like the original image, clothes and all. Is it possible that he is that completely credulous and has been taken in, lock stock and barrel, by the BFRO show?
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Old 14th June 2011, 12:28 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by mustbeso View Post
A few years ago I made my first trip to Glacier National Park,MT. When you go there you are reminded by many people on how to behave and react in bear country and, as a result I think, I began to see bears behind every tree. Cliff Barackman reminds me of that time. He seems to be a complete believer seeing bigfoot everywhere and is enthusiastic about all things bigfoot. I have been to Glacier 10 times now and have learned there are not bears behind every tree but I think Cliff will never reach that point. He dicusses the thermal image saying that the figure probably was not clothed when the recreation of the candy bar incident shows Bobo looking just like the original image, clothes and all. Is it possible that he is that completely credulous and has been taken in, lock stock and barrel, by the BFRO show?
I think whatever or whoever Cliff is he is exactly what MM wanted for his show and that is why he is there. MM knew what he would get out of him during filming and he is what I call a BF (and here MM) cheerleader. "It's all good. It's all BF." Yay yay yay

And you get a look of shock and disbelief if you suggest otherwise (except for token comments used to "prove" some kind of objectivity).
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Old 14th June 2011, 12:31 PM   #261
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So Cliff thought a bigfoot was only 50 yards away?

Did the BFRO decide to stay and find it? I mean, it was right there. Did Cliff himself make any further efforts at tracking or locating the bigfoot? The production company didn't control their free time.

Why in the world would anyone abandon such a quest after getting within 50 yards of the prize?

Of course, it just continues the everlasting pattern that goes back to Roger and Bob abandoning Bluff Creek right after a sasquatch strolled right by them.

Get really close to bigfoot, then go home.
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Old 14th June 2011, 12:40 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
So Cliff thought a bigfoot was only 50 yards away?

Did the BFRO decide to stay and find it? I mean, it was right there. Did Cliff himself make any further efforts at tracking or locating the bigfoot? The production company didn't control their free time.

Why in the world would anyone abandon such a quest after getting within 50 yards of the prize?

Of course, it just continues the everlasting pattern that goes back to Roger and Bob abandoning Bluff Creek right after a sasquatch strolled right by them.

Get really close to bigfoot, then go home.
I think MM gave it away when he shows they don't keep the chase after they realize it's a person and known animal. And well, that's all they've got to choose from. Then believers can be kept wondering...
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Old 14th June 2011, 04:28 PM   #263
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Now the Discovery Channel is going to have a program on the Florida Skunk Ape.

Reality TV goes in search of the skunk ape

Quote:
David Shealy's been trekking through the Everglades for 35 years looking for the skunk ape.

This week, he'll have company.

A film crew from California-based Authentic Entertainment, the production company behind reality TV shows Ace of Cakes (Food Network) and Flipping Out (Bravo) is in Ochopee to begin filming a pilot reality show intended for Discovery Channel in the fall.

Shealy, curator of the Skunk Ape Research Headquarters, has appeared on other shows about the legendary skunk ape, a yeti-like creature adapted to the wilds of South Florida, including "Unsolved Mysteries" and "The Daily Show."

"The producers really want to put together a successful show," he said.

Shealy knows not everyone buys the tale of the skunk ape, a 7-foot tall biped covered in hair and emitting a foul odor. The website for his Trail Lakes Campground on U.S. 41 in the Big Cypress Preserve, hosts an ongoing poll asking visitors if they believe in the creature’s existence. More than 25 percent of the 2,500 respondents either believe it to be a hoax or are skeptical. But a majority either believe in the idea or find it plausible...

Shealy is the guy who says that skunk apes live in alligator burrows and stink because their hair absorbs methane.

Quote:
Dave Shealy has fallen on hard times, and he may have to sell one of his four-toed skunk ape foot castings, which will bring, Shealy says, $1,500 from skunk ape enthusiasts. (see attachment)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 050912FE-skunkape2_t607.JPG (45.3 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 050912FE-skunkape3_t607.JPG (68.1 KB, 2 views)
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Old 14th June 2011, 06:11 PM   #264
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Isn't he also the guy who faked photos?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 14th June 2011, 06:20 PM   #265
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A few more of these TV shows, and bigfooters may well be the laughingstock of the cryptid world.
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Old 14th June 2011, 07:11 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
A few more of these TV shows, and bigfooters may well be the laughingstock of the cryptid world.
I think most footers would rather endeavor under a cloak of anonymity than be lumped in with these guys. At least before if they broached the subject with a stranger, the stranger might relate them to Meldrum or Sarmiento, now they are all kooks like Moneymaker, Shealy and Barackman.
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Old 14th June 2011, 07:26 PM   #267
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Animal Planet's description of Cliff Barackman:

"Level-headed and analytical, Cliff has a keen interest in physical evidence."
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Old 14th June 2011, 07:30 PM   #268
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The premiere episode of Finding Bigfoot was said to have 1.3 million viewers. Based on the estimated current US population (311 million), that is about 1 viewer per 240 people.

1 out of every 240 people watched it.
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Old 14th June 2011, 07:37 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The premiere episode of Finding Bigfoot was said to have 1.3 million viewers. Based on the estimated current US population (311 million), that is about 1 viewer per 240 people.

1 out of every 240 people watched it.
I wonder how the premier episode numbers compare with the last two episodes or will compare to future episodes. Even watching for a good laugh may get old real fast...
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Old 14th June 2011, 07:39 PM   #270
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I see when Ranae is captioned (titled) in the episodes she is "Ranae Holland - BFRO Field Biologist". This tells me that she is a BFRO member. She's probably a Bigfooter with a history in the organization. That would make a lot of sense. She isn't really skeptical of Bigfoot existence as far as I can tell, and Moneymaker would never work with a truly independent real skeptic anyway.
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Old 14th June 2011, 08:00 PM   #271
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So I watched the new North Carolina episode that Drew linked. There is a scene with Ranae walking on a dirt road (or path) looking forwards with her thermal cam. Suddenly an airborne object zooms across the screen and audibly plops to the ground. She reacts instantly. It was a thrown rock. There is forest on either side of her so it couldn't have come from far (because of trees and branches). But she's never shown wheeling towards the source to reveal it with her thermal cam. She just stops and reviews the recording she got.

I'm pretty convinced that the cast is fully aware that at least one shill is always around to create the various encounters. I think there is a mutual comfort/trust between the cast and the producers on site that they will not pull back the curtain to reveal the Wizard. Matt probably never really wanted to catch up with that guy on the hillside.
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Old 14th June 2011, 09:29 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Isn't he also the guy who faked photos?
Yes he is a well known hoaxer.
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Old 15th June 2011, 02:15 AM   #273
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All this night vision equipment has sure worked out well for the nightly ghost and cryptid hunts. Get just the right image at just the right distance or angle and Voila!

If they all weren't so afraid of daylight and clarity they'd have changed up their tactics by now. Hundreds of episodes of the same images and methods and format and nothing to pique the curiosity of the scientific community. EPIC FAIL.

If they can find these "things" and if they can attract these "things" the only thing stopping them from concrete scientific evidence is their own methods. We're not talking months but years of redundancy.

Why do so many buy into these shows? It is scary. I wonder what the average viewer age is for the ghost, monster, and bf shows?
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Old 15th June 2011, 04:11 AM   #274
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They are attracting bigfoot with an entire TV production cast and crew, loaded with electronics, standing around in the woods at night. It's amazing.

Yet, if you put a game cam in the woods, bigfoot can detect it, and avoid it.
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Old 15th June 2011, 06:27 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
They are attracting bigfoot with an entire TV production cast and crew, loaded with electronics, standing around in the woods at night. It's amazing.

Yet, if you put a game cam in the woods, bigfoot can detect it, and avoid it.
Indeed - great post.
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Old 15th June 2011, 08:33 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
They are attracting bigfoot with an entire TV production cast and crew, loaded with electronics, standing around in the woods at night. It's amazing.

Yet, if you put a game cam in the woods, bigfoot can detect it, and avoid it.
Well yes, but that's because bigfoot has a fascination for people and their activities, but a morbid fear of the spooky electronics and irritating noises of game cams.

When you think about it, MM and his band of merry men and women, are verifying the very things that some proponents have been saying -- bigfoot is curious... bigfoot avoids cameras... bigfoot is nocturnal... etc. etc.

Next thing you know someone will produce subjective probability stats, showing how bigfoot MUST exist because nearly every time MM and his band venture into the woods they have contact. And what are the chances of THAT?

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Old 15th June 2011, 10:06 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
They are attracting bigfoot with an entire TV production cast and crew, loaded with electronics, standing around in the woods at night. It's amazing.

Yet, if you put a game cam in the woods, bigfoot can detect it, and avoid it.
I wonder how many are in the crew that actually follow them into the woods? And what equipment they have? Has MM ever mentioned it anywhere? If a crew noise lights and equipment follow them I would like to know why MM thought this was such a good idea for finding a bigfoot (not as I suspect for finding a paycheck)?
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Old 15th June 2011, 12:57 PM   #278
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For example, a deer might hear something like the lens motors at night when it's quiet, and be spooked and gone.

Of course, if you watch the show, they make little attempt at being quiet. Naturally, few critters are around the noisy bunch. Yet this is supposedly a sign that bigfoot is around...
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Old 15th June 2011, 01:21 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
For example, a deer might hear something like the lens motors at night when it's quiet, and be spooked and gone.

Of course, if you watch the show, they make little attempt at being quiet. Naturally, few critters are around the noisy bunch. Yet this is supposedly a sign that bigfoot is around...
If there are no animals around them, then any noise they hear, must be a Bigfoot!
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Old 15th June 2011, 07:40 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Well, MM only said it to justify the appearance of a sasquatch at the house, imo. To make the account seem more believeable...
And that's one of the wonderful things about Bigfoot, you can make up anything about it you want, even on the fly. In all seriousness, Moneymaker has simply figured out that, as a group, humans are quite gullible, especially ones that want to believe in something. It seems all he really has to do is point out Possible Bigfoot™ (sounds/prints/shadows/hallucinations) for it to become Real Live Bigfoot™.

Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Oh, I see what you are saying, the video is contradicting his Cryptomundo posting.
What did they see that caused them to say IS THAT A SQUATCH?
The story is more sinister, Moneymaker Inc. top management apparently got all 'crossed up' as to who was playing Bigfoot at that hour so there ended up being some shift overlap and that's the real reason for the Bigfoot confusion. That particular bit wasn't even a Possible Bigfoot™, it was that swamp guy Bobo Fey.
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