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Tags TAM 9 , TAM events , vegan events , vegetarian events

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Old 20th June 2011, 10:44 AM   #1
Soymilk420
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Vegan/vegetarian at TAM9

Hey all. Im planning a meet-up for the vegetarians and vegans attending TAM this year. We already have number of folks interested.

We will be meeting at Atmoic#7 on Saturday at 6:30pm. Atomic#7 is an ice cream shop that makes their own custom regular and vegan ice cream right in front of you using liquid nitrogen, how nerdy it that!? They also make steamed hot pudding if youre into that as well. So come out and meet your fellow broccoli munching skeptics, we are a diverse bunch so it should be fun and interesting.

Additionally Penn Jilette will be hosting a Rock & Roll, Doughnut and Bacon Party on Friday night that we shall be crashing* with plates of fakin bacon and Ronalds vegan donuts.

If you are interested in the meet-up you can add yourself to the Facebook event page by just searching "Pythagorean Posse" or respond here. We will have a carpool and taxipool arranged so it should be easy to get to. Even if you cant make it to the meet-up but will still be at TAM I would love to meet you, drop me a line.

*Just kidding, please be respectful to Penn and guests if attend
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Old 20th June 2011, 11:00 AM   #2
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I think you need to try to get a vegan donut at Penn...

Maybe you can get skeptic and vegetarian of some note, DJ Grothe in on your plot.
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Old 20th June 2011, 11:02 AM   #3
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Speaking of bad donuts, I sure hope Penn provides something better than those dreadful Krispy Kremes.
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Old 20th June 2011, 11:36 AM   #4
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Will keep this in mind. I happen to be some sort of vague a vegetarian, myself.
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Old 20th June 2011, 11:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by xinit View Post
I think you need to try to get a vegan donut at Penn...

Maybe you can get skeptic and vegetarian of some note, DJ Grothe in on your plot.
Ive spoken with him (he is like the most pleasant person ever) and he did RSVP to the event on facebook, though I fear he will be too busy when it comes down to it. We still have a number of people on facebook and elsewhere that wish to attend.

I bet Penn couldn't even tell the donut was vegan, they are a regular donut shop that just started doing vegan donuts too on request, they get really good reviews from vegans and non-vegans alike.
While I plan to be there and bring my own donuts (visiting that donut place is a big motivation for going to vegas for me) I dont intend to be vocal about it in anyway, I dont want to be the kid who got Penn riled up and ranting about animal rights and the like. I just wanna party and eat donuts too.
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Old 20th June 2011, 11:55 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Soymilk420 View Post
I bet Penn couldn't even tell the donut was vegan, they are a regular donut shop that just started doing vegan donuts too on request, they get really good reviews from vegans and non-vegans alike.
I've had surprisingly good vegan cookies and cakes, so not a big surprise for me. Anyone bringing donuts will be welcome, surely. I never did find decent fakeon when I was on the veggie side of the food chain, though.
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Old 20th June 2011, 11:56 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Wowbagger View Post
Will keep this in mind. I happen to be some sort of vague a vegetarian, myself.
You're a vaguetarian? Only eat things of indeterminant origin?
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:05 PM   #8
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what's a vegan donut?
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
what's a vegan donut?
Something that tastes like cardboard.
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:23 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Something that tastes like cardboard.
I know youre probably just being snarky but I wouldnt just assume it tastes bad. Unlike other vegan-specific donut shops they dont just make cake donuts but a whole range of raised, cake, and filled donuts. Read the reviews on yelp from mostly non-vegans, 4 & 1/2 stars, their donuts are quite popular and they have a higher customer rating that Krispy Creme.

I will gladly give you a donut to try.
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Soymilk420 View Post
I know youre probably just being snarky but I wouldnt just assume it tastes bad. Unlike other vegan-specific donut shops they dont just make cake donuts but a whole range of raised, cake, and filled donuts. Read the reviews on yelp from mostly non-vegans, 4 & 1/2 stars, their donuts are quite popular and they have a higher customer rating that Krispy Creme.

I will gladly give you a donut to try.
I was being snarky, but I've been down this road dozens of times with vegetarians and tofu.

I've tried tofu. It tastes like rubber. Period. But whenever I mention this to vegetarians, they always complain that wherever I had tried it before hadn't prepared it properly, and it doesn't taste like rubber, and then they offer me some "properly" prepared tofu, which tastes like....rubber.

So I'm imagining that vegan donuts likely taste like cardboard, no matter how much you may insist they don't.
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:42 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Speaking of bad donuts, I sure hope Penn provides something better than those dreadful Krispy Kremes.
Sadly, I think all donuts at the party will be of the Krappy Kirspy Kreme variety, however there will be bacon... so I think that makes it ok.
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:48 PM   #13
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yes but plain tofu often isnt well prepared and many folks dont like it, though thats not the end all of vegan food and even with plain tofu the brand and how it was cooked really matter

there was actually a blinded taste test in which participants (non-vegans) were unable to distinguish between a vegan sausage and regular meat sausage. I think the bias many folks have about veganism taints their experience of vegan food. They dont want to like it, so they end up not liking it.
Thats why I often will try to get folks to try something without knowing its vegan first, ive been able to pass off Amys Vegan Mac and Cheese as the real thing (its even gluten-free pasta, go figure, i usually dislike GF pasta and breads). If i put out a plate of vegan cookie at a party many people actually avoid them if they are described as "vegan". Really it is an irrational and baseless bias.

I cant post links yet but the study can be found by Googleing The-Interactive-Effect-of-Cultural-Symbols-and-Human-Values-on-Taste-Evaluation
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:52 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Andriiya View Post
Sadly, I think all donuts at the party will be of the Krappy Kirspy Kreme variety, however there will be bacon... so I think that makes it ok.
how much is krispy creme per donut?
I think Ronalds is 80 cents...again better reviews on yelp
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:54 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Soymilk420 View Post
yes but plain tofu often isnt well prepared and many folks dont like it, though thats not the end all of vegan food and even with plain tofu the brand and how it was cooked really matter
You're forgetting one thing - I've heard this exact speech probably close to 30 times. And it always ends up tasting like rubber.
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:55 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Andriiya View Post
Sadly, I think all donuts at the party will be of the Krappy Kirspy Kreme variety, however there will be bacon... so I think that makes it ok.
I have a feeling you're right. I doubt it will be gourmet bacon either!

In other words, eat dinner before you go.
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Old 20th June 2011, 01:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
You're forgetting one thing - I've heard this exact speech probably close to 30 times. And it always ends up tasting like rubber.
I think that this means the challenge for TAM9 is to feed Scrut tofu without him knowing it. He's obviously employing some sort of selection bias to ignore all the times he's eaten tofu without knowing it...
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Old 20th June 2011, 01:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by xinit View Post
I think that this means the challenge for TAM9 is to feed Scrut tofu without him knowing it. He's obviously employing some sort of selection bias to ignore all the times he's eaten tofu without knowing it...
I'd say zero times.
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Old 20th June 2011, 01:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by xinit View Post
I think that this means the challenge for TAM9 is to feed Scrut tofu without him knowing it. He's obviously employing some sort of selection bias to ignore all the times he's eaten tofu without knowing it...
Do they make tofu beer? That would totally work.
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Old 20th June 2011, 01:37 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I'd say zero times.
I think you're going to have to be suspicious of everything... is that scrambled eggs or tofu scramble? Is that a "real" american cheese slice on the burger or tofu cheese? What about the burger? How much tofu is hiding in THAT?
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Old 20th June 2011, 01:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by xinit View Post
I think you're going to have to be suspicious of everything... is that scrambled eggs or tofu scramble? Is that a "real" american cheese slice on the burger or tofu cheese? What about the burger? How much tofu is hiding in THAT?
As long as they don't put any in the beer.

What's funny is, that on Sunday night last year, I was having dinner with another TAM veteran, and we both figured out it was the first time either of us had eaten dinner that week. We had liquid dinners on Wed-Sat.
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Old 20th June 2011, 02:35 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I was being snarky, but I've been down this road dozens of times with vegetarians and tofu.

I've tried tofu. It tastes like rubber. Period. But whenever I mention this to vegetarians, they always complain that wherever I had tried it before hadn't prepared it properly, and it doesn't taste like rubber, and then they offer me some "properly" prepared tofu, which tastes like....rubber.

So I'm imagining that vegan donuts likely taste like cardboard, no matter how much you may insist they don't.
I am not vegetarian, but I have had entirely vegetarian food today, including tofu.

If you get the smoked tofu from a company called Demeter or Taifun, it if fricking delicious.

Tofu is basically soya bean cheese, and as we all know, not all cheeses in the world are the same.

Vegan and hippies can make some the best baking on the planet.

The vegan caramel squares from Midnight Espresso on Cuba Street in Wellington NZ are the best I have ever tasted.
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Old 20th June 2011, 02:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Tatyana View Post
I am not vegetarian, but I have had entirely vegetarian food today, including tofu.

If you get the smoked tofu from a company called Demeter or Taifun, it if fricking delicious.

Tofu is basically soya bean cheese, and as we all know, not all cheeses in the world are the same.

Vegan and hippies can make some the best baking on the planet.

The vegan caramel squares from Midnight Espresso on Cuba Street in Wellington NZ are the best I have ever tasted.
Heard it all before.
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Old 20th June 2011, 02:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
What's funny is, that on Sunday night last year, I was having dinner with another TAM veteran, and we both figured out it was the first time either of us had eaten dinner that week. We had liquid dinners on Wed-Sat.

Wow--you didn't even walk over to the deli to grab a bite? You could have taken it right back to the bar.
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Old 20th June 2011, 02:51 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by AdMan View Post
Wow--you didn't even walk over to the deli to grab a bite? You could have taken it right back to the bar.
I know. But that seemed like too much effort at the time.
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Old 20th June 2011, 08:03 PM   #26
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No offense... but how many people are going to risk missing a keynote speaker just to get vegan ice cream? Even if it is made with liquid nitrogen. Atomic #7 is a 25+ minute drive from SP, without accounting for any possibly crazy Saturday night Vegas traffic.

Also, I'd say it's really not a good idea to provoke Penn with even a non-pushy, perfectly innocent offering of vegan/vegetarian food.
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Old 20th June 2011, 09:29 PM   #27
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You may be right that vegan "american" "cheese" may taste as good or better than "real" "american" "cheese". Of course, so would my shoe. :-)
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Old 20th June 2011, 11:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Heard it all before.
Yes, but have you tried it?

Japanese silken tofu done teppanyaki style, Chinese Buddhist vegetarian mock duck?

I am not sure why people get their knickers in such a twist about vegetarians and vegans, there are so many world cuisines that are veggie or vegan and delicious.

The Chinese often do a combination of tofu with meat, which is also delicious.

Admit it, your diet is limited, to lager.
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Old 20th June 2011, 11:39 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Tatyana View Post
I am not sure why people get their knickers in such a twist about vegetarians and vegans, there are so many world cuisines that are veggie or vegan and delicious.
I think a lot of it has to do with the veggie/tofu/soy meat subsitutes. They're honestly disgusting 99.999% of the time. Anyone eating a meat subsitute is obviously trying to replace something they'd prefer (meat) with something that tastes like cardboard. Same thing with vegan donuts, if someone wants a donut, they want a donut. If you want to make vegan deserts, fine... but more people would be interested if they were more independant of their non-vegan cousins.

In other words...
Veggie sub, salad, grilled veggies, deserts that just happen to be vegan, etc. = Good
Tofurkey, soymilk, veggie burgers, vegan donuts, etc. = Bad
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Old 21st June 2011, 06:44 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Tatyana View Post
Yes, but have you tried it?

Japanese silken tofu done teppanyaki style, Chinese Buddhist vegetarian mock duck?

I am not sure why people get their knickers in such a twist about vegetarians and vegans, there are so many world cuisines that are veggie or vegan and delicious.

The Chinese often do a combination of tofu with meat, which is also delicious.

Admit it, your diet is limited, to lager.
And ales.

I have no idea what kind/brand/species of tofu I've tried on the numerous occasions I've tasted it, all I know is that all of them tasted like rubber. I'd compare it to wine - I don't like the taste of wine. I've had bottles from $4 to $100+, red, white, whatever, so I'm quite sure I've tried a broad range of wines. I didn't/don't like any of them, because they taste like wine. As they should, because they are...well...wine. But that never stops well meaning people from insisting that the reason I don't like wine is that I've never had good wine, so try this one, which I do, and have to break the news to them that I don't like it, because, like all the wines before it, it tastes like....wine.
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Old 21st June 2011, 06:47 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Andriiya View Post
In other words...
Veggie sub, salad, grilled veggies, deserts that just happen to be vegan, etc. = Good
Tofurkey, soymilk, veggie burgers, vegan donuts, etc. = Bad
I agree with this! Stop trying to make stuff that "tastes just like" meat, but really doesn't, unless you have convinced yourself that it does to impress your fellow hippies. I often order off the vegetarian half of the menu - red beans and rice (some places make it without ham/chicken/sausage), various pasta dishes, salads, etc. If you like veggies, eat veggies, and not fake "meat".
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Old 21st June 2011, 11:06 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Andriiya View Post
I think a lot of it has to do with the veggie/tofu/soy meat subsitutes. They're honestly disgusting 99.999% of the time.
Keeping in mind that I eat meat...

There are some amazing fake meats made out of tvp and gluten that are believeable enough in stir fry at least that you would be seriously surprised. Any of the prepared lunch "meats" are mostly a disaster, but the TVP hamburger is quite similar to over-cooked loose hamburger on its own. In a sauce, you wouldn't know except for the absense of the odd bits of gristle or bone.

The best veggie burgers are the ones that don't try to be fake meat though -the ones that have grains and nuts in them and taste like their own thing.
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Old 21st June 2011, 11:12 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Andriiya View Post
Sadly, I think all donuts at the party will be of the Krappy Kirspy Kreme variety, however there will be bacon... so I think that makes it ok.
I say we encourage the OP to request a vegan bacon option from Penn, and record his response. Should be entertaining.
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Old 21st June 2011, 11:16 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by xinit View Post
Keeping in mind that I eat meat...

There are some amazing fake meats made out of tvp and gluten that are believeable enough in stir fry at least that you would be seriously surprised.
I am also an omnivore, but I recall that Panda Express used to have a Tofu & eggplant dish that I would typically get. The sauce was very tasty and the tofu was itself fairly bland but it was just the right consistency to absorb the sauce so it had that same flavor.
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Old 21st June 2011, 11:45 AM   #35
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I eat meat but once had a vegetarian girlfriend and occasionally ate this stuff.

It's actually not bad, IMO.
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Old 21st June 2011, 12:51 PM   #36
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I eat meat but once had a vegetarian girlfriend and occasionally ate this stuff.
Lol, there used to be a lot of pseudoscience going around about Quorn's mycoprotein and how it was supposed to be bad for you.
I never did try the brand, it all has egg in it

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Stop trying to make stuff that "tastes just like" meat
Vegetarianism for many isnt about a taste preference but rather about an ethical choice in regard to animal welfare or rights. The aesthetics of meat is entirely tangential for many.
Also especially in some cultures the line between faux meat and regular food is blurry. Many vegetarian restaurants will serve you a large falafel patty on a bun as a "burger", does that cross the line?...falafel is a pretty old and traditional food, are falafel balls "fake meatballs" because some vegans use them as such in pasta dishes. Should vegetarians not grill portobello burgers because its too meaty? How about horchata, it a useless milk substitute or is it its own thing, a yummy rice milk. Anyways I dont see what negative ethical implications or negative effects on others that someone eating beans mashed into the shape of a burger has that would cause other people to care about it.
I would also like to note that "meat" and "flesh" do not refer to just animal muscle matter but also to plant matter such as the meat of a chestnut or the flesh of an orange, the use of meat by vegetarians need not always harken back to animal muscle but could instead describe the meat and flesh of the plant matter
Similarly for milk, it is not exclusive to excretions of mammals but also to any plant substances that have a milky appearance, for example coconut milk.

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In other words...
Veggie sub, salad, grilled veggies, deserts that just happen to be vegan, etc. = Good
Tofurkey, soymilk, veggie burgers, vegan donuts, etc. = Bad
I have a donut recipe book with various international and American donuts recipes, it includes one or two that are totally vegan without intending to be. They just happen to be vegan...are they "good" because they happen to be vegan instead of intend to be? (taste wise I dont know i havnt made them yet)The same goes for cakes and cookies, I have many vegan cookbook but also many older non-vegan ones that will sometimes contain cookie or cake recipes without egg or dairy while that same same dish in another cookbook will call for egg. Recipes vary A LOT. I dont think Donuts must contain egg to be a donut, they just gotta look and taste like one, if that can be done without egg whether intentionally or not I dont see what the problem is.
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Old 21st June 2011, 12:59 PM   #37
Soymilk420
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No offense... but how many people are going to risk missing a keynote speaker just to get vegan ice cream?
um the keynote is on friday, this event is on saturday, on the program it says
6:00 – 8:00 pm

***Dinner on own***

6:00 – 8:00 pm

***Book Signing Table Open (Schedule TBA)***

I figured that folks could leave before the Dawkins speech at 8

truthfully youre the only one so far who has expressed concern that the location and time are not ideal (i know neither are ideal but they were the best options) If you have another suggestion on location (i was considering just doing it at the bar) and time that would be helpful and Ill consider it.
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Old 21st June 2011, 01:03 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Andriiya View Post
I think a lot of it has to do with the veggie/tofu/soy meat subsitutes. They're honestly disgusting 99.999% of the time. Anyone eating a meat subsitute is obviously trying to replace something they'd prefer (meat) with something that tastes like cardboard. Same thing with vegan donuts, if someone wants a donut, they want a donut. If you want to make vegan deserts, fine... but more people would be interested if they were more independant of their non-vegan cousins.

In other words...
Veggie sub, salad, grilled veggies, deserts that just happen to be vegan, etc. = Good
Tofurkey, soymilk, veggie burgers, vegan donuts, etc. = Bad
I think that your post is another example of knix in a twist.

Various cultures, including the Chinese and Japanese, have a long history of making things that 'taste like meat' but are not meat.


I eat meat. In fact, I had Irish steak mince chili today (that I made myself).

I also had Quorn sausages and now, Asda's own veggie burgers.

The veggie sausages and burgers are convenient as they are frozen, dead easy to make as you can microwave them, and they taste great.

They are also fairly cheap in comparison to buying a cheap meat based sausage or burger, which I personally think would be the disgusting bits of animal waste.

In an odd twist of irony, the one place we avoid eating burgers is the US. We did try and In and Out Burger on Sunset Strip as people rant about them, and I thought they were meh.


When we are in New Zealand, we are quite keen on Wisconsin Burger, Burger Fuel and while in Auckland, Murder Burger. And yes, they are beef burgers, not veggie.

We also often have both milk and soya milk in our fridge, I prefer soya milk, especially vanilla, in my evening cocoa and on morning muesli.

I personally think people have some fixed ideology that filters their experience of vegetarian food.

Last edited by Tatyana; 21st June 2011 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 21st June 2011, 01:07 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
And ales.

I have no idea what kind/brand/species of tofu I've tried on the numerous occasions I've tasted it, all I know is that all of them tasted like rubber. I'd compare it to wine - I don't like the taste of wine. I've had bottles from $4 to $100+, red, white, whatever, so I'm quite sure I've tried a broad range of wines. I didn't/don't like any of them, because they taste like wine. As they should, because they are...well...wine. But that never stops well meaning people from insisting that the reason I don't like wine is that I've never had good wine, so try this one, which I do, and have to break the news to them that I don't like it, because, like all the wines before it, it tastes like....wine.
I am going to conclude you have mutant taste buds.

Carry on.

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Old 21st June 2011, 03:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
And ales.

I'd compare it to wine - I don't like the taste of wine. I've had bottles from $4 to $100+, red, white, whatever, so I'm quite sure I've tried a broad range of wines. I didn't/don't like any of them, because they taste like wine.
Well now you've gone too far!
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