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Old 24th June 2011, 07:50 PM   #1
Lenbrazil
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What other architects think of Gage's nuttery

RIBA comes under fire for hosting ‘bonkers’ 9/11 talk
24 June 2011 | By Will Hurst, David Rogers


Institute reviews policy after controversial event booked by Zaha Hadid Architects associate


The RIBA is reviewing its policy on hiring out 66 Portland Place following a storm of criticism over its hosting of a group claiming that New York’s Twin Towers were brought down through a controlled explosion.

Leading architects on both sides of the Atlantic hit out at the institute this week after American architect Richard Gage, part of the group Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, delivered a lecture at RIBA HQ on Monday night


[...]


Director of the American Institute of Architects’ New York chapter Rick Bell, who witnessed 9/11, expressed surprise at the event and said “no amount of money” would persuade him to allow the group to talk at his headquarters.

“The professional community discredits this guy,” he said. “We rent to just about anybody but if this guy came to me I’d say we don’t want your money, we don’t want you in our building.
“You have to draw the line somewhere… Not for any amount of money would we have that talk in our space. It gives it a credibility that it doesn’t deserve.”

KPF chairman Gene Kohn, who was the AIA’s spokesman in the aftermath of the attacks, called Gage’s theories “ridiculous”.


[...]
http://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/riba-...020382.article

For some reason this was covered by 9/11 Blogger
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-06-2...ites-firestorm

Last edited by Lenbrazil; 24th June 2011 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Formatting
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Old 25th June 2011, 04:50 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Lenbrazil View Post
For some reason this was covered by 9/11 Blogger
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-06-2...ites-firestorm
Well, DUH! If you are right, the Establishment is going to gang up on you.
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Old 25th June 2011, 05:08 AM   #3
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Personally, I'd lay good Canadian money that this Rick Bell character is in on it too. /woo
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Old 25th June 2011, 05:16 AM   #4
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Was happy to read this. I complained to them before the event but to no avail. The 911 Tit movement seems to be at the stage of a dying insect on his back, barely moving but still the occasional twitch. Seems like his European tour received near to no press. You'd expect to see him on all the chat shows but thankfully not.
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Old 25th June 2011, 05:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by rubber_ritchie View Post
The 911 Tit movement . . . .


Oh. Er. . .











Do you have any links?
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Old 25th June 2011, 07:57 AM   #6
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Too funny
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Old 25th June 2011, 08:26 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by rubber_ritchie View Post
Seems like his European tour received near to no press.
You're assuming the purpose was to get press attention, as opposed to Gage getting a free European vacation financed by the suckers he has conned.
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Old 25th June 2011, 08:32 AM   #8
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Kind of funny how they all take it as nothing but insults... Gage has a genuine condition of chronic ineducation or crackpottery. Considering that I find RIBA's response to the controversy perfectly justified.
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Old 25th June 2011, 08:47 AM   #9
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From the 9/11 blogger article:
Quote:
But Gage said it was unfair of critics to attack his organisation without looking at its evidence, which he claims is supported by 1,500 people in both disciplines.

“Architects and engineers have willfully ignored the message that we’ve been speaking about for five years,” he said. “When is the RIBA going to take this seriously?

“It is extremely important that we understand exactly what happened on 9/11… the implications of the demolition of the Twin Towers are very disturbing – I’m not denying that – but to refuse to look at the evidence because it has dark implications is ignorance.”
This seems to be a common misconception by truthers. Anyone disagreeing with them must have not heard the evidence yet. To them, anyone who examines their evidence will surely come to the same conclusions as them. It's impossible for them to consider that someone could look at their evidence, and consider it just wrong.
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Old 25th June 2011, 09:13 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
You're assuming the purpose was to get press attention, as opposed to Gage getting a free European vacation financed by the suckers he has conned.
He is in Holland right now. Weather sucks today.
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Old 25th June 2011, 09:15 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
From the 9/11 blogger article:

Which is hysterically hypocritical coming from Gage, who has indicated that R.Mackey's paper is rubbish while also stating that he will never read it.
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Old 25th June 2011, 09:53 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Lenbrazil View Post
RIBA comes under fire for hosting ‘bonkers’ 9/11 talk
24 June 2011 | By Will Hurst, David Rogers
Oh, dear. Whoever he is, Tony Szamboti thinks he's me, probably won't believe it if I say he isn't, and can now find out his e-mail address from the BPONLINE website. This could be entertaining, though not for my namesake.

Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti on 9/11 blogger
I wonder if the co-author of this article is the same as the Dave Rogers who frequents the JREF Forum and is vehemently opposed for some reason to any new investigation of the events which occurred in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001.
Tony, I'm opposed to investigating it because it's a stupid idea. And incidentally, the seven things you listed as certainly not being bonkers are all, in fact, bonkers, because every one of them is based on an obvious complex question fallacy.

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right

Last edited by Dave Rogers; 25th June 2011 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 25th June 2011, 10:03 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Oh, dear. Whoever he is, Tony Szamboti thinks he's me, probably won't believe it if I say he isn't, and can now find out his e-mail address from the BPONLINE website. This could be entertaining, though not for my namesake.



Tony, I'm opposed to investigating it because it's a stupid idea. And incidentally, the seven things you listed as certainly not being bonkers are all, in fact, bonkers, because every one of them is based on an obvious complex question fallacy.

Dave
To be fair, I saw the name and also thought it might have been you. Of course, in my case it was simple idle musing rather than feverish swivel-eyed conspiracizing.
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Old 25th June 2011, 10:17 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
To be fair, I saw the name and also thought it might have been you. Of course, in my case it was simple idle musing rather than feverish swivel-eyed conspiracizing.


Perhaps they should start a group: Guys Named David Rogers Who Think 9/11 Truth is Bollocks.
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Old 25th June 2011, 10:45 AM   #15
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For years Truthers have been defending Gage and AE911 saying "Oh yeah well, where's the 1000 professional architects & engineers who DISAGREE with us, huh???"

And now that THIS has happened, well...I mean, just look at the comments section on the 911blogger article. The Truthers are all basically just plugging their ears and going LALALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOUUUUUUUUUUUU LALALALALALALALA. They aren't even attempting their usual cries of "SHILL! AGENT! PAID-OFF!" because, on some subconscious level deep deep down, even they are starting to realize how silly it is to implicate every single person who disagrees with you into the conspiracy.
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Old 25th June 2011, 11:05 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Oh, dear. Whoever he is, Tony Szamboti thinks he's me, probably won't believe it if I say he isn't, and can now find out his e-mail address from the BPONLINE website. This could be entertaining, though not for my namesake
This seems to happen quite a lot. They think you're someone you're not...
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Old 25th June 2011, 11:17 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger View Post
Oh. Er. . .











Do you have any links?
It's a bit like the 9/11 "truthers without any tutoring" movement.
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Old 26th June 2011, 02:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
Anyone disagreeing with them must have not heard the evidence yet. To them, anyone who examines their evidence will surely come to the same conclusions as them. It's impossible for them to consider that someone could look at their evidence, and consider it just wrong.
It's like a secular version of a Jack Chick strip: "You mean this Jesus guy died for our sins? And the Bible is the direct word of God? OMG, why did nobody ever tell me this before???"
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Old 26th June 2011, 03:16 AM   #19
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Mod WarningOff-topic posts moved to AAH.

Back on topic please.
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Old 26th June 2011, 09:37 AM   #20
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If you look at the BD comments sheet, I'd say he's getting a bit of a well deserved drubbing.

Interestingly groups like the RIBA linkedin forums are ignoring it completely AFAIK. Nice to see he made such an impression.
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Old 26th June 2011, 12:05 PM   #21
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Most of the interesting comments are here:

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/riba-...ze=10#comments
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Old 26th June 2011, 06:38 PM   #22
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Man... it wants me to register to read more :\
Whatever... I got to see some of them yesterday. AFAIK, this won't get any mention at the university I take classes at either. Since I started I've only heard a couple of mentions of 9/11 conspiracies, and Gage's name has never popped up. At least least not in the 6 years I've been in the program.
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Old 27th June 2011, 04:31 AM   #23
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It's quite disconcerting how many in the profession were not already aware of Gage and his views.. some of them seem to have been sucked in by his one-sided presentation.

One woman was asking for Ove ARUP or a credible international Engineering firm to look at this.. I had to point out that they did, for 3 years, and concluded (in 2005) that the towers would've collapsed by the fire alone.

I can't believe the BD comment board has now been infected by cries of "government shill" and endless links to youtube clips :-/
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Old 27th June 2011, 07:37 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mercian View Post
It's quite disconcerting how many in the profession were not already aware of Gage and his views.. some of them seem to have been sucked in by his one-sided presentation.

Last year I talked to a guy at a class reunion who's been working as an architect in NYC since before the attacks, and he hadn't even heard of September 11 conspiracism at all, let alone Gage and AE911T. He told me that he'll be sure to speak out if he encounters any of their BS.
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Old 28th June 2011, 05:35 AM   #25
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The debate is still raging over at BD online, but the most vocal are truthers who I don't think were registered before, posting list after list of names and links.. I doubt BD readers have come accross this behaviour before.

There's talk of starting a thread on JREF, I hope it happens so you guys can join in
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Old 28th June 2011, 11:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
He is in Holland right now. Weather sucks today.

It would be fun to have an investigative journalist/PI to follow Gage on his tours....might turn up all sorts of interesting extra curricular activities
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Old 28th June 2011, 08:18 PM   #27
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Unfortunately the world is full of people who choose to be foolish. People Believe this, or believe that, or disbelieve this or disbelieve that. It's darn crazy.

Rather than find the truth, they are happy with less than truth. One only Practices Beliefs/Disbeliefs if one is located at a distance from the truth, and that distant location is of course is the zone of less than truth. As children they practiced beliefs and disbeliefs and thus believed in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. Then as adults they still continued to practice beliefs and disbeliefs. They just refused to grow up.

For some people, seeing is still believing, thus they are still located at a distance from the truth. They can't see the truth since their seeing is merely an act of believing.

To give you an example, such people believe that a car can stop, move, move slowly or move at higher speeds.
They believe that a car can move across various distances. WOW ???

Thus they are saying that motion, such as the motion of a car, contains 2 variables.
1) Speed
2) Distance

Variables range from zero to infinity.

Infinite speed means that no matter what distance you cross, it is done in zero time.
Moving across an infinite distance means that you just keep on going forever since there is no end to an infinite distance.

Thus if move at an infinite speed across an infinite distance, you will therefore,
GO ON FOREVER, IN NO TIME AT ALL. ???

Thus you will experience time, forever, but do so in no time at all.

But if you are one of those folks that can see the truth, thus see that motion is constant, that it is non-stop, and that only changes in the direction of that motion are possible, you soon convert what you truly see happening, into equations, and bingo you are tickled pink to find out that your equations are identical to those famous equations known as the Lorentz Fitzgerald contraction equation, the Time Dilation equation, the Lorentz Transformation equations, and the Velocity Addition equation.

But today, most people instead still place beliefs ahead of truths.
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Old 28th June 2011, 08:22 PM   #28
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The hell?
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Old 28th June 2011, 08:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
The hell?
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 28th June 2011, 09:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MINISTERofTRUTH View Post
Unfortunately the world is full of people who choose to be foolish. People Believe this, or believe that, or disbelieve this or disbelieve that. It's darn crazy.

Rather than find the truth, they are happy with less than truth. One only Practices Beliefs/Disbeliefs if one is located at a distance from the truth, and that distant location is of course is the zone of less than truth. As children they practiced beliefs and disbeliefs and thus believed in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. Then as adults they still continued to practice beliefs and disbeliefs. They just refused to grow up.

For some people, seeing is still believing, thus they are still located at a distance from the truth. They can't see the truth since their seeing is merely an act of believing.

To give you an example, such people believe that a car can stop, move, move slowly or move at higher speeds.
They believe that a car can move across various distances. WOW ???

Thus they are saying that motion, such as the motion of a car, contains 2 variables.
1) Speed
2) Distance

Variables range from zero to infinity.

Infinite speed means that no matter what distance you cross, it is done in zero time.
Moving across an infinite distance means that you just keep on going forever since there is no end to an infinite distance.

Thus if move at an infinite speed across an infinite distance, you will therefore,
GO ON FOREVER, IN NO TIME AT ALL. ???

Thus you will experience time, forever, but do so in no time at all.

But if you are one of those folks that can see the truth, thus see that motion is constant, that it is non-stop, and that only changes in the direction of that motion are possible, you soon convert what you truly see happening, into equations, and bingo you are tickled pink to find out that your equations are identical to those famous equations known as the Lorentz Fitzgerald contraction equation, the Time Dilation equation, the Lorentz Transformation equations, and the Velocity Addition equation.

But today, most people instead still place beliefs ahead of truths.
Dude, it's like you're reading my mind!
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Old 28th June 2011, 09:36 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by rubber_ritchie View Post
The 911 Tit movement
Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger View Post
Oh. Er. . .

Do you have any links?
WTC Dust
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Old 29th June 2011, 01:32 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by MINISTERofTRUTH View Post
Infinite speed means that no matter what distance you cross, it is done in zero time.
Moving across an infinite distance means that you just keep on going forever since there is no end to an infinite distance.

Thus if move at an infinite speed across an infinite distance, you will therefore,
GO ON FOREVER, IN NO TIME AT ALL. ???
No. Just... no.

At infinite speed, any finite distance will be covered in zero time. However, an infinite distance is not finite. Moving at infinite speed across an infinite distance will take an indeterminate time. It's nothing to do with Lorentz transformations.

I think some study of the mathematics of infinities may be of value to you. I can recomment "The Infinite Book", by John D. Barrow, as a readable and entertaining starting point.

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 29th June 2011, 08:54 AM   #33
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On the BD forum I posted Oystein's critique of the Harrit paper.. I said Oystein was a Scientist, which some dude called Andreas John has just slammed me for:

Quote:
andreas john | 29 June 2011 3:50 pm

"a scientist??? LOL Did I miss something..? you forgot to add quatation marks between the word #scientist# . According to duh'bonkers logic, from now on every IT consultant is a scientist. Oystein is a f#-+ing maroon.

http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/201...s-is-like.html

http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/201...s-is-like.html

Until this date there is no debunking of Harrit et al work."
Oystein are you a Scientist?

Interesting how they've moved on from 'Bee Dunkers' to "duh'bonkers" don't you think?
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Old 29th June 2011, 09:15 AM   #34
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I prefer the term "Archie Debunker" ..thank you very much.
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Old 29th June 2011, 11:32 AM   #35
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If he wants a scientist, then refer him to Sunstealer's critiques; Sunstealer is, if I recall correctly, a materials scientist.

As always, though, it's a reverse appeal to authority: the critique is no good because it's not from a scientist, not because the content is wrong. Ask him what Oystein got wrong.
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Old 29th June 2011, 12:24 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by mercian View Post
On the BD forum I posted Oystein's critique of the Harrit paper.. I said Oystein was a Scientist, which some dude called Andreas John has just slammed me for:



Oystein are you a Scientist?

Interesting how they've moved on from 'Bee Dunkers' to "duh'bonkers" don't you think?
I won't answer for Oystein but the first page in your link is hilarious.

They are actually using the slide from Jones' own presentation, which I used to show the MEK soaked sample is tnemec primer paint, to show that it's not primer paint! What a moron! What that idiot doesn't realise when he says there was no Zinc in the samples is that he should be saying no Zn in samples a) to d).

I've read Jones' reply as to why this is the case - they didn't break the chip in half - which just goes to show how sloppy they were. They were using two different methodologies and then equating the results.

The correct way to have gone about this was to have published a typical edx spectra or two of outside surface of the chips and then two of the inside. It would also have saved them space in their paper helping it to read more concisely.

The whole MEK soaking is a red herring.

I find the video of the heating of that chip interesting though. Hardly explosive! What material have they placed the chip on? The chip volume appears to increase but it doesn't explode or melt as such - we'd expect to see it spread out if such high temps were reached. There is no light given off which is what thermite would do.

Funny how it's over 2 years since this amazing world changing discovery and release of the paper, but no additional publishing of their work has been forthcoming. Funny how they can afford to burn samples willy-nilly, but won't send them to an independent lab for simple analysis.

If a truther argues with you, just ask them why Jones et al haven't sent a couple of samples anonymously to a lab. Literally this is what you do. Phone a lab, say, "hello I've got some thin red material and I'd like to know what it is, how much will it cost to find out?" The lab will inform you of the rough cost and timescale, the procedures etc. You post samples, pay a fee ($2000 would cover it easily) and then a couple of weeks later you receive the report. Simples. They won't do it because they know what would happen.

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Old 29th June 2011, 01:56 PM   #37
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Judy Woo-woo is a materials scientist and she dismisses Jonesie's crap out of hand. She has the superior credentials.

She's more batcrap crazy, but when did that matter to twoofers?
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Old 29th June 2011, 03:02 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
From the 9/11 blogger article:


This seems to be a common misconception by truthers. Anyone disagreeing with them must have not heard the evidence yet. To them, anyone who examines their evidence will surely come to the same conclusions as them. It's impossible for them to consider that someone could look at their evidence, and consider it just wrong.
Just a nit picj MacG.
The evidence is not 'wrong' its the conclusions drawn that are wrong.

I.E. Evidence : molten steel at the WTC site.

Yes there was molten metal. No, it is not shown to have been steel and thus it is not evidence that thermite was involved. The conclusions , that it was steel and that this is thus proof of thermitic temperatures, are wrong.
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Old 29th June 2011, 04:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by mercian View Post
On the BD forum I posted Oystein's critique of the Harrit paper.. I said Oystein was a Scientist, which some dude called Andreas John has just slammed me for:



Oystein are you a Scientist?

Interesting how they've moved on from 'Bee Dunkers' to "duh'bonkers" don't you think?
My degree is in "Applied Mathematical Sciences" - does that make me a scientist?
The guy you quote is correct: By profession, I am an IT consultant. I do not work as a scientiest, and certainly material sciences or chemistry are not my fields at all.

I am flattered that you use my work, but it is largely a summary of what others here have found out, particularly Sunsteeler and Moorea, with more input from Dave Rogers and others. I found some errors in the Harrit paper myself, but probably wasn't the first in any one instance.

Of course it doesn't matter one bit if I am a professional scientist or not. What matters is if my facts are true or false, and if my arguments are convincing or not.
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Old 29th June 2011, 06:33 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Just a nit picj MacG.
The evidence is not 'wrong' its the conclusions drawn that are wrong.

I.E. Evidence : molten steel at the WTC site.

Yes there was molten metal. No, it is not shown to have been steel and thus it is not evidence that thermite was involved. The conclusions , that it was steel and that this is thus proof of thermitic temperatures, are wrong.
Especially as we expect molten metal in fires and reports of people seeing molten metal and even molten steel are common!
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