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Tags Laclede primer , nanothermite , Niels Harrit , paint chips , tnemec , wtc

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Old 31st December 2011, 07:30 AM   #1241
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A couple comments: 1) I don't have Steven Jones's email address but I did put out a request to him and other signatories to the Bentham study to see if ANYONE wants to I.D. the chips and tag the ones they consider thermitic. That was a good idea. 2.) Oystein's ideas are an extension of my #1 concern now, that we find the red-gray chips that are believed by Jones et al to be thermitic. Oystein's skill and knowledge will be passed on to Jim Millette because he is considering suggestions. 3.) Not all 9/11 Truth people agree with Kevin. Many of them want this study and are willing to pay to see it happen. They have already approached Kevin, Steven and Niels and asked them what is going on and why aren't there backup independent studies happening. They've been getting letters like this for years. I should make a badge for them: "I'm a REAL 9/11 Truther"!
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Old 31st December 2011, 08:40 AM   #1242
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
A couple comments: ... 2.) Oystein's ideas are an extension of my #1 concern now, that we find the red-gray chips that are believed by Jones et al to be thermitic. Oystein's skill and knowledge will be passed on to Jim Millette because he is considering suggestions.
In terms of relevant skill and knowledge I can't hold a candle to Jim, or to The Almond or Sunstealer for that matter. I am just pushing my own interest, and hoping that Jim shares it: That we are sufficiently precise in distinguishing between possible different materials, to make sure no-one can seriously hand-wave his results viz. the Bentham data. No doubt Kevin will continue to poison the well and hand-wave Jim's results based on who he is (and based on the fact that Kevin already knows he will not like the results).

Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
3.) Not all 9/11 Truth people agree with Kevin. ... I should make a badge for them: "I'm a REAL 9/11 Truther"!
Hehe I like that and suggest a separate thread for contributions and votes on the prettiest badge, and thus double the number of productive threads in this sub-forum
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Old 31st December 2011, 08:54 AM   #1243
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
That we are sufficiently precise in distinguishing between possible different materials, to make sure no-one can seriously hand-wave his results viz. the Bentham data.
Have they "seriously" proven that "thermitic material" were present in quantities that would support their conclusions? As far as I can see, they have not.

I'd like to know what James R. Millette, Ph.D. thinks of their paper? You know, a peer review.
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Old 31st December 2011, 10:47 AM   #1244
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Just a random thought, but maybe it would be a good idea to measure the amount of light produced when a chip of known paint and a chip of suspected thermite are ignited. It seems to me that, by the nature of the thermitic reaction, there would have to be an EXTREME difference.
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Old 31st December 2011, 02:14 PM   #1245
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Surely truthers will just say it was super nano thermite and whatever the result its just because nano thermite is different.
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Old 31st December 2011, 03:08 PM   #1246
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Let's see... Dr. Millette is expressing no opinion of any kind until all the data is in. Not even in casual phone conversations. The guy is really good. And Lefty, I think your idea is a good one. I've suggested that tons of thermite going off would be bright like the sun, and I'm also wondering if Dr. Millette will measure energy output anyway (I will suggest it). Maybe a photon meter (???) would be good too? And SOME truthers will talk about supernanothermite, others will say it's all deception and lies... and some people on both sides of the aisle will be very impacted in the beliefs by this study (my target market!).
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Old 31st December 2011, 04:31 PM   #1247
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I feel like I know this question has been answered, but can someone tell me how *insert version of thermite* could be used as a "fuse". It seems like using this compound would be EXTREME overkill to ignite another substance. I commonly see the "hybrid" theory among CTists. Saying that there was *insert version of thermite* + *random* = destroyed towers.

However, wouldn't there be a combination of *insert version of thermite* residue plus the residue of the explosives? Which means finding the *insert version of thermite* really wouldn't be the end of the road, you would have to find the rest of what was used as well.

Anyway, just looking for a quick CD lesson if anyone gets the time.
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Old 31st December 2011, 05:17 PM   #1248
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Recent advances in pyrotechnology point to pico-thermite, which functions on a subatomic scale. In a cold-fusion reaction catalysed by aluminium, pico-thermite is also able to extract the energy of the extra neutrons in isotopes 60Fe and 57Fe into kinetic energy at the rate of e=mc2 and leave behind the lighter isotope 56Fe. Pico-thermite is able to sustain an extremely long and slow burning cold-triggered fusion reaction which scientists and engineers say will be useful in power plants as well as in the smelting of steel, as it can be cpnfigured to maintain temperatures which can keep large pools of steel in a liquified state for long periods of time. ;-)

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Old 31st December 2011, 05:32 PM   #1249
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Originally Posted by oody View Post
Recent advances in pyrotechnology point to pico-thermite, which functions on a subatomic scale. In a cold-fusion reaction catalysed by aluminium, pico-thermite is also able to extract the energy of the extra neutrons in isotopes 60Fe and 57Fe into kinetic energy at the rate of e=mc2 and leave behind the lighter isotope 56Fe. Pico-thermite is able to sustain an extremely long and slow burning cold-triggered fusion reaction which scientists and engineers say will be useful in power plants as well as in the smelting of steel, as it can be cpnfigured to maintain temperatures which can keep large pools of steel in a liquified state for long periods of time. ;-)
Hilite-mine

Wait, so now there's another type of thermite. Also, I think that says recent advances, doesn't it? And I think the WTC tragedy happened around a decade ago...didn't it? So, how recently has this come out, and can we get a source?
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Old 31st December 2011, 05:47 PM   #1250
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Hilite-mine

Wait, so now there's another type of thermite. Also, I think that says recent advances, doesn't it? And I think the WTC tragedy happened around a decade ago...didn't it? So, how recently has this come out, and can we get a source?
Apologies, I succumbed to my inner demons and invented a fictional material pico-thermite in the vein of Hush-a-Boom.TM silent explosives.

Here is a good thread on regular thermite -- Sunstealer provides particularly good information: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=220818

This thread discusses the "enhanced" thermites: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=141605
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Old 31st December 2011, 06:19 PM   #1251
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I feel like I know this question has been answered, but can someone tell me how *insert version of thermite* could be used as a "fuse". It seems like using this compound would be EXTREME overkill to ignite another substance. I commonly see the "hybrid" theory among CTists. Saying that there was *insert version of thermite* + *random* = destroyed towers.
There is none. As we've remarked hundreds of times for several years, thermite is actually harder to initiate than any known explosive.

There are a few speculative in-space applications of nanothermite (e.g., precision one-shot microthrusters or cutting through wire traces on printed circuit boards) where nanothermite would serve as a "match," but these would be highly specialized applications where the cost and annoyance of working with the stuff would be worth the bother. The one neat thing about nanothermite is that it can burn very quickly, exhibiting a flame front plausibly in the 600 m/s range or higher, but does not explode at all -- in fact, it produces so little gas that this is a "feature." Its non-explosiveness could theoretically be useful in space, where any impulse has to be accounted for.

Steven Jones no doubt read about these speculative ideas from some of Dr. Tillotson's papers, then incorporated them into his own fantasies, much like a bird might weave a page from the New York Times into its nest. There is no reason whatsoever why it would be used in any kind of structural demolition ever. It provides no advantages of any kind over perfectly normal technology.

The only reason you'd put it there is to provide a clue to investigators... which is precisely what the conspiracy-addled believe.
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Old 31st December 2011, 06:49 PM   #1252
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After a longer period of absence I joined this thread yesterday and read that a new examination of the red/gray-chips is planned. I strongly support this and I want to suggest a few things.

I think it would be a good idea to carry out a thermogravimetric analysis (TGA). We have two conflicting hypothesis. The "truther hypothesis" that a thermitic reaction occured and the "debunker hypothesis" that the expthermic reaction was caused by a combustion of an organic compound. The TGA messures the mass of an object as a function of the temperature. The decrease of the mass of an given object suggests the formation of a gaseous product. The thermite reaction (Iron(III)oxide + Aluminum) creates no gaseous products. So if there is a decrease of the sample's mass at the ignition point we have a strong evidence for a nonthermitic reaction. A further possibility would be the combination of such an analysis with a gas chromatogrpahic (GC) analysis. If this analysis detects CO or CO2 this would totally debunk the thermite hypothesis. But I'm not sure if it is possible to connect a TGA with an GC.
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Old 31st December 2011, 07:10 PM   #1253
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
There is none. As we've remarked hundreds of times for several years, thermite is actually harder to initiate than any known explosive.

There are a few speculative in-space applications of nanothermite (e.g., precision one-shot microthrusters or cutting through wire traces on printed circuit boards) where nanothermite would serve as a "match," but these would be highly specialized applications where the cost and annoyance of working with the stuff would be worth the bother. The one neat thing about nanothermite is that it can burn very quickly, exhibiting a flame front plausibly in the 600 m/s range or higher, but does not explode at all -- in fact, it produces so little gas that this is a "feature." Its non-explosiveness could theoretically be useful in space, where any impulse has to be accounted for.

Steven Jones no doubt read about these speculative ideas from some of Dr. Tillotson's papers, then incorporated them into his own fantasies, much like a bird might weave a page from the New York Times into its nest. There is no reason whatsoever why it would be used in any kind of structural demolition ever. It provides no advantages of any kind over perfectly normal technology.

The only reason you'd put it there is to provide a clue to investigators... which is precisely what the conspiracy-addled believe.
Thank you sir, much obliged
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Old 31st December 2011, 10:14 PM   #1254
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Just a random thought, but maybe it would be a good idea to measure the amount of light produced when a chip of known paint and a chip of suspected thermite are ignited. It seems to me that, by the nature of the thermitic reaction, there would have to be an EXTREME difference.
I really like this idea, lefty.

Any of you guys who are familiar with the inner workings of visible light spectroscopes able to elaborate on whether this is practical with the chips?

Acquisition time issues?

I assume that the short term dynamics would make recording spectrograms a very challenging thing. Are there currently available techniques to do so for very short term events?


Tom

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Old 1st January 2012, 03:11 AM   #1255
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A Happy New Year to everyone)

Lefty, tfk: I think that such measurements of released light are not necessary. (Btw, what would you take as a „normal“ paint for comparison? And how to record the light released by nanothermite for comparison (since normal thermite is not suitable))? (But perhaps, I misunderstood something here.)
Things remains the same (and more simple) for me: if red-(gray) chips selected from the dust have the same/very similar XEDS, SEM and other characteristics as Bentham chips (a) to (d) and FTIR microscopy proofs the epoxy resin binder, all such chips have to be particles of Laclede red primer. Of course, some additional thermal analysis would be great.

Africanus: I have (we have) discussed TGA as one of the proper analytical methods in a couple of posts here. Some remarks:
1) Note that even authors of Bentham paper admitted that some heat released during heating of chips can belong to the burning/oxidation of organic binder.
2) Thermitic reaction does not lead to gaseous products, but some material of thermite burning can be easily expelled from the samples just because of extreme overheating and rapid thermal expansion of surrounding air (Lefty noted here that a real burned thermite is usually/always covered with the whitish aluminum oxide – and some other part of this light oxide is probably expelled from the exploding/burning thermitic mass.) Therefore I think that namely very tiny thermite chips may loose some mass during burning. On the other hand let me consider for the moment that all inorganic matter remains in both paint and thermictic chips after heating. TGA cannot distinguish between paints and thermites here, since in both cases the overal mass of inorganics remains basically constant (only organics are degraded/vaporized). Simply I think that TGA iself can't prove or disprove thermite by analyzing mass loss.
3) I think that I wrote to Lefty that any chromatography or any other analytical method would always detect carbon oxides as products, when heating samples with any polymeric/organic binder to very high temperatures. There is no real need to proof it and such data on carbon oxides presence would not surely debunk the thermite theory. Even Bentham people know that there is a lot of combustible carbon stuff in their „nanothermite“.
Anyway: TGA analysis of the new investigated chips would be useful e.g. since it can give some independent data on the content of organic binder. (In connection with DSC measurements, it can serve for the excellent proofs that chips (a) to (d) were Laclede paint particles, but it seems that such combination of measurements is currently not planned by Jim Millete and his lab.)

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Old 1st January 2012, 03:24 AM   #1256
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Originally Posted by Africanus View Post
The decrease of the mass of an given object suggests the formation of a gaseous product. The thermite reaction (Iron(III)oxide + Aluminum) creates no gaseous products. So if there is a decrease of the sample's mass at the ignition point we have a strong evidence for a nonthermitic reaction.
The problem with that is that heating the epoxy to a high enough temperature does drive off gases.

Somewhere back up-thread, we see video of a paint chip being heated in an oxygen-rich environment. Flame flickers across the surfaces of the chip, suggesting that they are burning gases driven off by the heat. Apparently, the chip is just reaching its flash point, not giving off enough gas to sustain combustion. This seems to me counter-indicative of a thermitic reaction. If anything, a thermitic reaction would heat the entire chip all the way through in a very short time, and would continue whether further external heat was applied or not.

Quote:
A further possibility would be the combination of such an analysis with a gas chromatogrpahic (GC) analysis. If this analysis detects CO or CO2 this would totally debunk the thermite hypothesis. But I'm not sure if it is possible to connect a TGA with an GC.
I would think that if any significant amount of these gases were driven off prior to ignition of any sort it would indicate that only the epoxy is burning.

Perhaps there would be some way to cut off the heat source as soon as natural flames are visible to see whether the process is self-sustaining. Certainly the ashes need to be analysed for alumina and elemental iron. If there is neither, we still have no thermitic reaction. If there is no elemental iron, we are dealing with a normal Class A-fueled fire.
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Old 1st January 2012, 07:24 AM   #1257
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Request for contributions to WTC Dust Analysis

Here is my official request for funds to analyze the WTC dust. To summarize, after three months of investigating this, the best person I found for the job is James R. Millette, Ph.D. of MVA Scientific Consultants. He is an independent researcher with extensive experience in forensics and dust analysis. He promises an objective study: "At present, I have no opinion as to whether we will find any active thermitic material. All I can say is that to this point in time we have not found any during the general particle characterizations we have done. Because we have not focused on this particular question in the past analyses, we are proceeding with a careful, forensic scientific study focused on the red-gray chips in a number of WTC dust samples. When I present the data, it will be in front of critical members of the forensic science community... I am an independent researcher without an interest in how the research results come out. Our laboratory is certified under ISO 17025 which includes audits of our accuracy, reliability and integrity. I am a member of the American Academy of Forensic Scientists and have sworn to uphold the high ethical standards of the organization."

Dr. Millette continues to receive input from forensic experts as well as from me and my JREF companions. He has already found red-gray chips using stereomicroscopy and has created initial spectographic analyses of some of the red-gray chips in his lab's possession. He plans to do, at a minimum, a replication of many of the experiments already done in the original Harritt/Jones/Ryan et al Bentham study as well as additional testing by PLM, SEM, TEM and FTIR after sample treatment. I am thinking other tests may be added to the protocol. We will get a full report and he will also make it public.

Chemist and 9/11 Truth activist Kevin Ryan has refused to provide samples of red-gray chips he believes are thermitic, or even to sign off on the chips Dr. Millette would provide. He believes Dr. Millette's past work with the EPA and other dust studies were deceptive and that his results would not be objective. Dr. Millette has expressed confidence that he can find red-gray chips that are a scientifically valid match for the chips studied in the Bentham paper. I am confident of Dr. Millette's scientific integrity and knowledge. He has taken a strong interest in this subject and plans to do a very thorough job. He has never once hinted at any prejudice against the thermitic materials hypothesis and consistently says he has no opinion until he has thoroughly analyzed the data.

Because of his strong interest in the subject, he is charging only $1000 for several thousand of dollars worth of tests. I am now asking all people of good will on "both sides of the aisle" to make the necessary contributions to have this work move forward.

Please write a check or money order payable to Classical Guide Inc. and mail to Chris Mohr, Foothills Chapel, 1950 Ford St Golden CO 80401. This is not tax-deductible. Leave me an email address and a snail-mail return address so I can acknowledge receipt of your contribution and mail you back your check if we can't raise the necessary funds (though I believe we can). Whatever you pitch in will be kept private unless you tell others on the JREF thread how much you pitched in. Once we get $1000 in checks, I'll deposit them all and give Jim Millette the "Go" sign. If you have any questions you can send me a private message right here on JREF.

Thanks all and Happy New Year!

Chris Mohr
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Old 1st January 2012, 07:41 AM   #1258
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Old 1st January 2012, 07:44 AM   #1259
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post

Please write a check or money order payable to Classical Guide Inc. and mail to Chris Mohr, Foothills Chapel, 1950 Ford St Golden CO 80401. This is not tax-deductible. Leave me an email address and a snail-mail return address so I can acknowledge receipt of your contribution and mail you back your check if we can't raise the necessary funds (though I believe we can). Whatever you pitch in will be kept private unless you tell others on the JREF thread how much you pitched in. Once we get $1000 in checks, I'll deposit them all and give Jim Millette the "Go" sign. If you have any questions you can send me a private message right here on JREF.

Thanks all and Happy New Year!

Chris Mohr
Chris:
Do you plan to update on the progress of this fund raising?


(BTW check will be in the mail Tuesday)

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Old 1st January 2012, 07:58 AM   #1260
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I'll try to have a check in the mail Tuesday.
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Old 1st January 2012, 08:06 AM   #1261
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Perhaps there would be some way to cut off the heat source as soon as natural flames are visible to see whether the process is self-sustaining. Certainly the ashes need to be analysed for alumina and elemental iron. If there is neither, we still have no thermitic reaction. If there is no elemental iron, we are dealing with a normal Class A-fueled fire.
Come to think of it, none of us would be dumb enough to heat it in an atmosphere that would sustain combustion in the first place. In order to produce any flame, it would have to be heated at least to the temperature at which the carbon compounds break down and start to reduce the iron oxide. This might not even involve any great deal of light if it is paint, but certainly, if it is thermite.
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Old 1st January 2012, 08:31 AM   #1262
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Chris,

for us non-Americans, checks and money orders to the USA are, afaik, an expensive and cumbersome way of sending money. Would you consider accepting PayPal?

Alternatively, if some of you other guys who send you a check and do use PayPal could relay some amount that I send them, please contact me!
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Old 1st January 2012, 08:46 AM   #1263
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Chris,

for us non-Americans, checks and money orders to the USA are, afaik, an expensive and cumbersome way of sending money. Would you consider accepting PayPal?

Alternatively, if some of you other guys who send you a check and do use PayPal could relay some amount that I send them, please contact me!
I am in same situation as Oystein.
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Old 1st January 2012, 09:25 AM   #1264
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Originally Posted by oody View Post
Recent advances in pyrotechnology point to pico-thermite, which functions on a subatomic scale. In a cold-fusion reaction catalysed by aluminium, pico-thermite is also able to extract the energy of the extra neutrons in isotopes 60Fe and 57Fe into kinetic energy at the rate of e=mc2 and leave behind the lighter isotope 56Fe. Pico-thermite is able to sustain an extremely long and slow burning cold-triggered fusion reaction which scientists and engineers say will be useful in power plants as well as in the smelting of steel, as it can be cpnfigured to maintain temperatures which can keep large pools of steel in a liquified state for long periods of time. ;-)
By George, I think he's got it.
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Old 1st January 2012, 09:28 AM   #1265
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Hilite-mine

Wait, so now there's another type of thermite. Also, I think that says recent advances, doesn't it? And I think the WTC tragedy happened around a decade ago...didn't it? So, how recently has this come out, and can we get a source?
Military secrets and all that, wink wink, nudge nudge.
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Old 1st January 2012, 12:07 PM   #1266
Ivan Kminek
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Chris, I am also in the same situation as Oystein.
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Old 1st January 2012, 12:08 PM   #1267
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Let me look into setting up something non-Americans. I don't have PayPal but one possibility might be to have you fax a credit card # to my home (very secure, and no internet trail), but I'll have to find out what info the credit card company needs to accept the $. And yes DGM, I will keep[ everyione updated as we go. Hopefully I'll have the money in hand this month and we can move forward!
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Old 1st January 2012, 12:27 PM   #1268
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Originally Posted by Ivan Kminek View Post
Chris, I am also in the same situation as Oystein.
Ditto.

Presumably someone on the US side can accept PayPal and pass the money on to you by cheque?

eta: Although, the study will be seen to have been funded by JREF shills and, therefore, automatically rejected by The Truth

But then we can point out that the NWO didn't fund it and then The Truth will claim the NWO refunded our $1,000 on the quiet, and that the scientists involved in the study were in fear of their lives from marauding MiB in helicopters wielding light pens.

It'll be worth it though, if only for the laffs

Last edited by GlennB; 1st January 2012 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 1st January 2012, 12:51 PM   #1269
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The chips ARE paint...

Jone has given the proof here, showing the analysis of primer paint taken from a monument.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScY8c...eature=related

Harrit said that it was not possible because there is no magnesium in the sample :
http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/200...-niels-harrit/
"Magnesium was never observed, which is another element characteristic of the primer paint"
It's a lie. A big, big, lie : as you can see in figure 6, there is a peak between Zn and Al.... and it's exactly magnesium (1,3 keV)
http://csrri.iit.edu/cgi-bin/period-form?ener=&name=Mg

See also the last page of this document : http://www.bastison.net/RESSOURCES/C...cle_Harrit.pdf
The first graph is Jone's analysis of primer paint
The second, the analysis of a chip by authors in the article published by Bentham.
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Old 1st January 2012, 12:55 PM   #1270
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Ditto.

Presumably someone on the US side can accept PayPal and pass the money on to you by cheque?
And me. That's a good idea, though!
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Old 1st January 2012, 01:37 PM   #1271
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Let me look into setting up something non-Americans. I don't have PayPal but one possibility might be to have you fax a credit card # to my home (very secure, and no internet trail), but I'll have to find out what info the credit card company needs to accept the $. And yes DGM, I will keep[ everyione updated as we go. Hopefully I'll have the money in hand this month and we can move forward!
For Canadians its quite easy as long as you are Ok with cash. We can simply go to any bank and ask for USA cash. Depending on the amount it can take a day or two but in my case where I can only afford about $20 I'll probably get it right away.
Or, I could just send you $20.60 Canadian
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Old 1st January 2012, 04:19 PM   #1272
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What about asking LashL or Darat to act as a stopping point for our overseas friends?

Chris, Have you spoken to the JREF to see about a matching gift or maybe some other financial assistance?

ETA: Money Order on the way as of Tuesday. No checks. Haven't had a checkbook in years.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 08:48 AM   #1273
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Of course Ryan is poisoning the well. Everyone in some capacity has a connection to the government. Its just his way of setting up a trap door to jump through when the sham gets exposed for what it is.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 10:10 AM   #1274
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I haven't used my paypal in years, but I can probably help out. I will be sending a check out tomorrow or probably the day after when I send off all our "just married" cards.

Maybe set something up where people can let me know how much they would be willing to invest. I can send a check covering it all. Then if we raise enough and it's cashed you can send me what you wanted to donate via paypal. If it's not..then no harm no foul. Just a thought.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 05:36 PM   #1275
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I haven't used my paypal in years, but I can probably help out. I will be sending a check out tomorrow or probably the day after when I send off all our "just married" cards.

Maybe set something up where people can let me know how much they would be willing to invest. I can send a check covering it all. Then if we raise enough and it's cashed you can send me what you wanted to donate via paypal. If it's not..then no harm no foul. Just a thought.
This is a great offer, thank you. Oystein and Ivan and all, another option is to fax me a credit card number (more secure than the internet as it goes straight to our home and will be destroyed as soon as we run it through) with number, expiration date, code on back of card, the street address where the credit card bill goes to, the zip code or zone code, and of course the US dollar amount. I'll email you a receipt once I run it through here at my chapel. If you prefer PayPal (which I don't have), then another option is plague311? Let me know (you can also write private message via JREF obviously).
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Old 2nd January 2012, 05:56 PM   #1276
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Chris;
My contribution is coming to you - relayed via Paypal with the assistance of another member who will forward it as a check.

Eric C
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Old 2nd January 2012, 10:50 PM   #1277
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I don't see the point, honestly. If the paint turns out to be ordinary, it won't change the Truther's minds one bit. And if it did turn out to contain nanu-nanu termites, then how is the boy who cried wolf for over ten years going to get people to listen when he says, "But, really, this time I've got something real!"
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Old 3rd January 2012, 12:21 AM   #1278
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Chrismohr: and what about just sending you some cash in well-wrapped letter from Europe? In this specific case, I would have no worry that addressee could defraud my money
As you know, I had some serious doubts that the research oriented only to the proofs/disproofs of nanoth...te (elemental aluminum) could bring anything conclusive. But, Jim Millette's planned research seems to be oriented now in a different and broader way (let's find what these tiny red things in the dust really are), and I am basically satisfied with this shift (especially with planned FTIR measurements). For this purpose, I am willing to spend some money.

Btw, you wrote that Jim Millette has already recorded some spectra (what spectra?) of the chips, could we see them (and when)?

Last edited by Ivan Kminek; 3rd January 2012 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 08:09 AM   #1279
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Originally Posted by Ivan Kminek View Post
Chrismohr: and what about just sending you some cash in well-wrapped letter from Europe? In this specific case, I would have no worry that addressee could defraud my money
As you know, I had some serious doubts that the research oriented only to the proofs/disproofs of nanoth...te (elemental aluminum) could bring anything conclusive. But, Jim Millette's planned research seems to be oriented now in a different and broader way (let's find what these tiny red things in the dust really are), and I am basically satisfied with this shift (especially with planned FTIR measurements). For this purpose, I am willing to spend some money.

Btw, you wrote that Jim Millette has already recorded some spectra (what spectra?) of the chips, could we see them (and when)?
Ivan, Cash is fine with me; I've sent well-wrapped cash all my life (gifts to nieces and nephews, helping my Mom, etc.) and never lost a penny but it is generally considered unsafe so it's your call. I sent Oystein the spectra and if you send me your email through JREF's private message system I will send it to you as well. I am weak in computer skills so if you or Oystein can paste Jim Millette's attachment into this thread that would be fine with him.

I asked Jim Millette about my concerns that we find the right red-gray chips. I also mentioned cooking the chips as part of a replication of the Harrit experiments, maybe even with an argon or nitrogen atmosphere. Today he just wrote back, "Chris, It is our intent to find all the red-gray chips we can in several samples and characterize them all. We will only consider additional tests for ignitability on those that match the Harrit criteria. Jim"

As for Nomuse's "What's the point," it depends on who reads it. Some will be influenced by the results either way, others will not. Ozeco, for example, has made a very compelling case for saying that even if someone found tons of thermite it still could not have been used for CD. If there is no evidence of thermitics, some 9/11 Truth activists will say Millette never found the right kind of chips . I can tell you though, many people will be influenced either way, they've told me. I can also tell you this, it looks like a hell of a good study is about to be made. What people do with it is out of my control.
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Old 3rd January 2012, 08:31 AM   #1280
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Since no "truthers" appear to be on board in advance, I'm not going to contribute financially.

Just curious - if it's not coming from Kevin Ryan, then where are you sourcing the "WTC dust?"

Also, if anyone overseas or elsewhere wants me to forward their overseas payments via US check, they are welcome to PM me. I have a Paypal account and will be happy to mail a check on your behalf to Mr. Mohr.
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