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Old 26th September 2011, 12:33 PM   #1
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Anti Smart meter / wifi propaganda, being used in British Columbia

Greetings all... I am with the YYJ Skeptics located in Victoria BC. One of the issues that we have been dealing with has been the anti wifi / smart meter crowd.. I have taken some time to copy one of their posters bold font and all for your viewing pleasure.. One of the projects we are working on, is to counter all the claims on our website, then set up a QR code on stickers to place on top of these posters...

Is there anyone in the US who has a smart meter, who can let me know if they have experienced the problems that this group has sited, please contact me... Thanks.



Smart Meter Safety

Say NO to BC Hydro's Smart Meter: This 24/7 radiation is classified as a possible carcinogen by the WHO.

They cause health effects like migraines, nausea, learning impairment, memory loss, sleep disturbance, fatigue and cancer.
Radiofrequency radiation has biological effects on living tissue: DNA and ovary/reproduction, organ damage, etc!
Other US-States, cities and towns have rejected smart meter installation for a variety of reasons, including health concerns, sky-rocketing electric bills, problems with privacy/hacking and electronic interference with medical devices and other wireless equipment.
All electronic devices in your home will be "smart" proofed. TV's, toaster even vibrators etc. That is happening in California right now! That means BC Hydro can collect any information on when/where/how you used an electrical device. That includes personal sex toys or any other device. It doesn't need to be plugged into your electrical outlet. The collected data can and will be sold to the highest bidder- corporations, law enforcement, private groups.
Tests have shown that Smart meters allow hackers to access your computer. Thieves will know when you are on holydays, at work or any other home activities.
You will be told that Smart Meters save you money. That is not the case: 1- They use more electricity to feed the witeless network (and you will be paying for it), 2- they do not influence your consuming habits (it is your responsibility to save electricity)

BC Hydro will not tell you what the devices are capable of doing, but instead they will try to convince you that Smart Meters are good and save you money.

Visit youtube and research what experts and engineers say about the Smart Meter. Please talk, share and act within your community.

Be SMART, say NO!
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Old 26th September 2011, 01:58 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by cdnfish View Post
Visit youtube and research what experts and engineers say

lol
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Old 26th September 2011, 04:27 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by cdnfish View Post
Visit youtube and research what experts and engineers say about the Smart Meter.
I think you said "and" when you meant to say "or".
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Old 26th September 2011, 06:43 PM   #4
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Apologies if this is blatantly obvious, but I think this is a transcript of some "anti-Smart Meter" literature (What exactly is a "Smart Meter"?), and cdnfish is transcribing it for us to present an example of the misinformation being presented by these activists, not his own view.
At least that's how I read it, since the YYJ Skeptics website argues that wi-fi is perfectly safe, which I believe is the scientific consensus.
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Old 26th September 2011, 09:27 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by cdnfish View Post
Greetings all... I am with the YYJ Skeptics located in Victoria BC.
Hello cdnfish, welcome to the forums. We are glad to have you.

Here's a link for everyone to the Smart meter wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_meter

We do have a few members that are electrical engineers, so I'm sure someone will be along soon that can counter those talking points you gave in the OP quite impressively.
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Old 26th September 2011, 09:40 PM   #6
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Since I was switched to a Smart meter, my electric bill (which I receive every other month) has gone from typically CDN$110 to approximately CDN$70. That's about CDN$1.17 a day, and that includes my daily transportation, as I commute to work on an e-scooter.

Pretty sweet, IMO.
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Old 26th September 2011, 09:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
They cause health effects like migraines, nausea, learning impairment, memory loss, sleep disturbance, fatigue and cancer.
Usual nonsense. It's an electronic energy meter, typically they use about 0.5W. A refrigerator can use between 300 and 800W, but I guess that's 'magical' electricity that doesn't cause any of these problems.
Similarly wireless (not a crucial part of a smart meter roll-out but I guess this is BC Hydro's plan) is not harmful.

Quote:
Radiofrequency radiation has biological effects on living tissue: DNA and ovary/reproduction, organ damage, etc!
So does sunlight! Quick lock the children away before the evil electromagnetic radiation of the sun gets them.

Quote:
All electronic devices in your home will be "smart" proofed. TV's, toaster even vibrators etc. That is happening in California right now! That means BC Hydro can collect any information on when/where/how you used an electrical device. That includes personal sex toys or any other device. It doesn't need to be plugged into your electrical outlet. The collected data can and will be sold to the highest bidder- corporations, law enforcement, private groups.
Not my vibrator! I would love to know how they think this is even possible. Gremlins, I assume.

Quote:
Tests have shown that Smart meters allow hackers to access your computer. Thieves will know when you are on holydays, at work or any other home activities.
No, they won't. [Morbo]COMPUTERS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY[/Morbo]. The only way I can remotely see this as true is if a hacker managed to get into the network to see when you weren't consuming any power. Hence network security being a major component of any smart meter roll-out.

Quote:
You will be told that Smart Meters save you money. That is not the case: 1- They use more electricity to feed the witeless network (and you will be paying for it), 2- they do not influence your consuming habits (it is your responsibility to save electricity)
Well of course each consumer is responsible for their own energy consumption. A smart meter will provide you with more energy and power usage information- many utilities are including a wireless interface with pretty graphs. What you do with that information is up to you. Trials and roll-outs in Denmark and Australia (two places I am familiar with) have shown a reduction in energy and power use with increased knowledge.
In addition, smart meters allow the use of peak pricing- when demand on the network is high, electricity costs more, and when demand is low, it is much cheaper. In this way a consumer can choose when to use their appliances (e.g. a dishwasher or dryer).
This helps to reduce the peak demand on the network, which is a big driver in electricity prices. High demand for a short period of time means high electricity cost, as bigger infrastructure is required to keep the network stable. If this is only being used for 1% of the year (which is the case in my state- the major peaks happen on the hottest day for about 3 hours), you need to charge a lot to regain the cost of constructing that network. When demand is flatter, infrastructure becomes more efficiently used. This in turn allows prices to stay lower. This is particularly true where I live (a regional area), since the customer base is more spread out and more poles and wires are required to service the same number of people (we are legally required to charge everyone the same for electricity, whether they live on a sheep station 400kms from anywhere or are in a city next door to a substation).
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Last edited by Giraffe107; 26th September 2011 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:07 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Giraffe107 View Post
Usual nonsense. It's an electronic energy meter, typically they use about 0.5W. A refrigerator can use between 300 and 800W, but I guess that's 'magical' electricity that doesn't cause any of these problems.
I believe those problems are not 'supposedly' caused by the electricity used to run the meter, but by the method the meter communicates with the central office.

From the wiki:

Quote:
Among the solutions proposed are: the use of cell/pager networks, satellite, licensed radio, combination licensed and unlicensed radio, power line communication. Not only the medium used for communication purposes but the type of network used is also critical. As such one would find: fixed wireless, mesh network or a combination of the two. There are several other potential network configurations possible, including the use of Wi-Fi and other internet related networks.
I'm sure there are some good do 'cell-phones cause cancer' threads in this sub-forum, I'm not so sure about related Wi-Fi threads.
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:52 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post

We do have a few members that are electrical engineers, so I'm sure someone will be along soon that can counter those talking points you gave in the OP quite impressively.
I'm a retired engineer, but I do know a lot about RF.
I couldn't impressively counter those talking points, as I WOULD PUKE BEFORE I GOT THROUGH THE FIRST ONE.
That whole list is complete ********, and has been debunked so many times that it is amazing it doesn't spontaneously burst into flames.

V.

ps: I see that a certain long-necked creature did go through it point-by-point upstream. You are a brave person!
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Old 26th September 2011, 10:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Senor_Pointy View Post
Apologies if this is blatantly obvious, but I think this is a transcript of some "anti-Smart Meter" literature (What exactly is a "Smart Meter"?), and cdnfish is transcribing it for us to present an example of the misinformation being presented by these activists, not his own view.
At least that's how I read it, since the YYJ Skeptics website argues that wi-fi is perfectly safe, which I believe is the scientific consensus.
I was under the same impression.

For clarification: my "lol" was directed not at cdnfish, but at whomever originally wrote that gem.
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Old 26th September 2011, 11:09 PM   #11
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Wifi is safe. There's no possible mechanism for such signals to cause cancer or other problems anymore than cell phones. The energy in a photon any sort of RF, cell signal, or the like is much, much less than the magnitude of the random thermal fluctuations in your body (and thousands of times or more less than the amount of energy needed to break a covalent or even ionic bond). If such signals could cause cancer, then you'd be full of cancer just from existing.

The most they can do slightly heat things up if the photons are absorbed. However, the energy amounts to a watt or so projected everywhere and it isn't readily absorbed by the body. It certainly doesn't provide enough heat to produce any significant change.

Overall, the sun is far, far, far more dangerous.
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Old 27th September 2011, 04:48 AM   #12
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I would assume some people consider sources like this legit:
http://www.electricalpollution.com/Research.html

OY!
http://www.magdahavas.com/
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Old 27th September 2011, 12:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by FreshHat View Post
Since I was switched to a Smart meter, my electric bill (which I receive every other month) has gone from typically CDN$110 to approximately CDN$70. That's about CDN$1.17 a day, and that includes my daily transportation, as I commute to work on an e-scooter.

Pretty sweet, IMO.
On the other hand, my housemates and I ran into a downside of Smart-meters (at least as they're implemented in our neighborhood). No way for the consumer to check usage between bills.

A couple of months ago our electric bill was unusually high (=~25% more than usual) We wanted to look for stray/unknown power drains, by the usual trick of turning things off and watching the meter, but the smart-meter is basically a black box (beige actually). Even opening the cover reveals no display or anything.
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Old 27th September 2011, 12:45 PM   #14
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YYJ Skeptics, eh? Guess you have a pilot or two in the group?
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Old 27th September 2011, 01:56 PM   #15
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Thanks everyone for your replies.. It is greatly appreciated..

We are currently challenging each and every point, the hard part is we have decided to do this without snark.. The main people we are going to get to are those who are sitting on the fence. We don't want to alienate them.. We are also challenging those anti smart meter folks with providing evidence that is not a youtube video...

Twitter is used alot here in Victoria BC, and because the main hash-tag for Victoria is #yyj we have used that within our groups name... Great for social media.. especially twitter... We are actually going to be looking at getting society status within the next few months, but we will continue to use @yyjskeptics for our twitter feed.
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Old 27th September 2011, 02:05 PM   #16
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Also.. along with our counter points.. we are adding citiation.. Something that the anti smart meter folks refuse or can't do...

Patrick
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Old 27th September 2011, 03:36 PM   #17
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If you need math or graphic representation for any of the points I mentioned, let me know.
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Old 27th September 2011, 07:16 PM   #18
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We live in the area that Canada's only green party member was elected... and it's funny when this stuff really started to blow up for us 300 hits on our site in a couple of days.. with a lot of nasty messages and emails.. At the same time, Brian Dunning posted his skeptoid episode on "Wi-Fi, Smart Meters, and Other Radio Bogeymen" so it almost appeared we got a double dose.. While this is just one issue we are working on, it seems that it has become our main issue for the time being. I have had to set aside a few projects because of this.. Our group has been invited to talk with the leader of the green party to give her the other side of the issue... But that won't be until at least after the fall session of parliament..
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Old 27th September 2011, 07:17 PM   #19
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And thanks you Drachasor, for your offer.. I may just take you up on it...
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Old 28th September 2011, 03:47 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by cdnfish View Post
We are currently challenging each and every point, the hard part is we have decided to do this without snark..
That is hard , but very admirable, I wish you success!

Originally Posted by cdnfish View Post
Also.. along with our counter points.. we are adding citiation.. Something that the anti smart meter folks refuse or can't do...
Citation is another logical and honorable quality.

Even if "they" do use citations they rarely check and double-check for accuracy and validity; so make sure that you always do. You don't want to give them any ammo; you would never hear the end of it if you make even one mistake, even though "they" make several.
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Old 28th September 2011, 04:17 AM   #21
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Quote:
• All electronic devices in your home will be "smart" proofed. TV's, toaster even vibrators etc. That is happening in California right now! That means BC Hydro can collect any information on when/where/how you used an electrical device. That includes personal sex toys or any other device. It doesn't need to be plugged into your electrical outlet. The collected data can and will be sold to the highest bidder- corporations, law enforcement, private groups.
• Tests have shown that Smart meters allow hackers to access your computer. Thieves will know when you are on holydays, at work or any other home activities.
You've got to admire their creativity. "Smart meters are bad cause they allow perverts to hack your dildo and see when you're having sex with yourself!".

Wow.
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Old 28th September 2011, 04:34 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
You've got to admire their creativity. "Smart meters are bad cause they allow perverts to hack your dildo and see when you're having sex with yourself!".

Wow.
And aren't most sex toys battery powered anyway?
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Old 28th September 2011, 06:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cdnfish View Post
We live in the area that Canada's only green party member was elected...
You're also in an area of Canada where they strongly rejected an attempt by the government to bring in the "Harmonized Sales Tax". I suspect some of the opposition is from "far right" supporters who are against paying more to a government utility. (Note: they may not pay more, but they just might think they will.)

So, this is probably a case where well-meaning ignorant eco-activists are joining forces with right wing nutcases.
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Old 28th September 2011, 07:00 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
And aren't most sex toys battery powered anyway?
But all require plugging in.
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Old 28th September 2011, 07:12 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
Quote:
You've got to admire their creativity. "Smart meters are bad cause they allow perverts to hack your dildo and see when you're having sex with yourself!".
And aren't most sex toys battery powered anyway?
What about ones that are gasoline powered?

How many sex toys actually use a kick-start?
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Old 28th September 2011, 10:02 AM   #26
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lol... we have had many of the same comments about the sex toys part.. I think I said something to the effect they may not be using the right tool for the job..

With that being said, we have done some investigating, and we may have another tool to use. The Canadian Code of Advertising Standards. These flyers would fall under the category of “advocacy advertising,” so that should mean they must follow the same codes as say BC Hydro. Thoughts?
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Old 28th September 2011, 08:38 PM   #27
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I was unfamiliar with the term "smart meter" and imagined some sort of Canadian Police intelligence test being forceably applied to the good folks of Vancouver Island.

On balance, I was relieved by the OP.

(Though an "Anti smart meter" could have it's uses.)
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Old 28th September 2011, 08:58 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cdnfish View Post
All electronic devices in your home will be "smart" proofed. TV's, toaster even vibrators etc. That is happening in California right now! That means BC Hydro can collect any information on when/where/how you used an electrical device. That includes personal sex toys or any other device. It doesn't need to be plugged into your electrical outlet. The collected data can and will be sold to the highest bidder- corporations, law enforcement, private groups.
If something was "smart" proofed, wouldn't that mean it was protected from "smart" meters?

eg: "child" proofed or "idiot" proofed
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Old 29th September 2011, 06:23 AM   #29
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Cool

Originally Posted by Alareth View Post
If something was "smart" proofed, wouldn't that mean it was protected from "smart" meters?

eg: "child" proofed or "idiot" proofed
You can never idiot proof anything. Nature is always making better idiots!
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Old 29th September 2011, 12:44 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by LarianLeQuella View Post
You can never idiot proof anything. Nature is always making better idiots!
I suppose that could be used as proof of evolution..
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Old 29th September 2011, 04:42 PM   #31
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I don't know, when I lived in Victoria I knew a few growers up in Esquimalt, and they aren't going to be happy. One has to wonder if this propaganda isn't being pushed for ulterior motives.

These RF signals are non-ionizing. I think it's as simple as that.
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