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Old 4th October 2011, 03:29 PM   #1
JLord
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Has there been (will there ever be) any "inside job" whistleblowers?

I'm not one who is big into the physics of how the buildings supposedly fell, but for me the main reason why I assume it could not have been an "inside job" is the fact that way too many people would know about it and someone would say something.

For me the physics of the buildings is beyond my expertise and I would not pretend to be able to analyze the incident better than the consensus of experts in the field. So I'm not interested in a whistleblower who heard explosions, or who saw nanothermite, or molten steel or any aspect relating to physical arguments about the destruction of the buildings.

I am wondering if there has ever been anyone claiming to have knowledge about any inside job? So like the guys who rigged the buildings with explosives, the guys who detonated them, someone who knew about government involvement, etc.
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Old 4th October 2011, 03:39 PM   #2
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To my knowledge, no one has.

And really, if Ashton Kutcher can't hook up with a girl in a nightclub without her lawyering-up and demanding hush-money within a week, what are the odds that hundreds or even thousands of people could be involved in the murders of thousands of innocent people AND keep silent about it for over a decade?
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Old 4th October 2011, 03:51 PM   #3
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This is Konrad Morgen's justification at Nuremberg about why after investigating reports of gassing in the Nazi camps, was unable to stop it.

Quote:
Q. You said previously that you had reported to the various agencies and named three of them, I believe. Please describe how Nebe reacted. What was Breithaupt's attitude? What did Kaltenbrunner and Muller say? What was Pohl's attitude, and how did the Reich Doctor Grawitz react?

[.....]

THE PRESIDENT: Doctor Pelckmann, he said he did not report it. Surely that is sufficient. We do not want to know more about it. He did not report. We are not trying the witness.

DR. PELCKMANN: Pardon, I believe it is a mistake, if I understood your Lordship correctly. He said he did report.

THE PRESIDENT: He said he made no other report, as I understood it, except this that he has spoken of.

Q. Witness, will you comment on that?

A. That is true. Apart from the chief of the main office of the SS, no one else was informed.

Q. Did you not consider it your duty to inform the public or to clear your conscience somehow, to cry "murder"?

A. I would have needed access to technical means for that - the Press and radio - which I did not have. If I had screamed it from the roof-tops, no one would have believed me, because this system was beyond human imagination. I would have been locked up as insane.
Parallels?

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Old 4th October 2011, 03:59 PM   #4
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No. This is the ultimate debunker for most conspiracy theories. People can't shut up. Period. And how do They™ recruit?

Grand conspiracies only work in fiction, which is what the theories of 911 twoof are.
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Old 4th October 2011, 04:15 PM   #5
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None that i have heard of or read about. Nope.
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Old 4th October 2011, 04:53 PM   #6
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There was no inside job therefore there can be no whistle blowers. It's very simple.
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Old 4th October 2011, 05:13 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post

Parallels?


Not even close.
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Old 5th October 2011, 02:07 AM   #8
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Countdown till some truther (oxy-)moronically parades someone as a whistleblower who isn't even claimed to be on the inside of the conspiracy, such as Sibel Edmonds, April Gallup, Barry Jennings...

10 ... 9 ... 8 ...
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Old 5th October 2011, 02:46 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
This is Konrad Morgen's justification at Nuremberg about why after investigating reports of gassing in the Nazi camps, was unable to stop it.



Parallels?
That's a most interesting parallel. How different is 9/11 ? A controlled media, Nobody significant would listen, Fear of being accused of insanity. I can just hear a perp on the stand saying exactly the same things today. Nice one..thanks.
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Old 5th October 2011, 02:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
bill smith
This message is hidden because bill smith is on your ignore list.
Youtube is full of people who claim they are former members of the Illuminati. But there's not even one person willing to claim they planted the thermite. But then we're not even sure it was thermite, are we? It could just as well have been a space-based death ray turning steel into dust or even a nuclear bomb. It could be anything...and everything.

But I am surprised there's not even one nut case willing to claim they did the 9/11 attack. They'd be the hero of every Truther. Might be a good next idea for one of our resident Truthers. Get a handicam and put your own video on Youtube claiming it was you that planted the nuclear bomb or the thermite. Aren't you tempted to claim you were the guy who manned the death ray?
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Old 5th October 2011, 02:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
That's a most interesting parallel. How different is 9/11 ? A controlled media, Nobody significant would listen, Fear of being accused of insanity. I can just hear a perp on the stand saying exactly the same things today. Nice one..thanks.
You should be thanking your lucky stars if you ever get a perp on the stand. However Konrad Morgen was (supposedly) not a perp, but someone who claimed to have tried to fought the system (his claim is generally, although not universally, accepted. Personally, I think he was full of crap). There is a difference between a bystander and a perpetrator.

Since there is not a snowball's chance in hell of ever getting anyone on the stand this is all academic
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Old 5th October 2011, 03:02 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
You should be thanking your lucky stars if you ever get a perp on the stand. However Konrad Morgen was (supposedly) not a perp, but someone who claimed to have tried to fought the system (his claim is generally, although not universally, accepted. Personally, I think he was full of crap). There is a difference between a bystander and a perpetrator.

Since there is not a snowball's chance in hell of ever getting anyone on the stand this is all academic
I don't really expect to. A kitchen table judgement will have to do unless there is an American French revolution. Only the Americans themselves can extract a pound of flesh. A kitchen table judgement on it's own is enough if it's on a world scale anyway.
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Old 5th October 2011, 03:03 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Scott Sommers View Post
...
But I am surprised there's not even one nut case willing to claim they did the 9/11 attack.
Urrr the nut jobs of AQ made that claim!

Originally Posted by Scott Sommers View Post
They'd be the hero of every Truther.
Strange that Truthers don't rejoice that we do have whistleblowers... (AQ, that is)

[/quote]Might be a good next idea for one of our resident Truthers. Get a handicam and put your own video on Youtube claiming it was you that planted the nuclear bomb or the thermite. Aren't you tempted to claim you were the guy who manned the death ray?[/quote]
If they have no artistic idea on how to do it, they may find some inspiration in the AQ videos
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Old 5th October 2011, 03:03 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Scott Sommers View Post
Youtube is full of people who claim they are former members of the Illuminati. But there's not even one person willing to claim they planted the thermite. But then we're not even sure it was thermite, are we? It could just as well have been a space-based death ray turning steel into dust or even a nuclear bomb. It could be anything...and everything.

But I am surprised there's not even one nut case willing to claim they did the 9/11 attack. They'd be the hero of every Truther. Might be a good next idea for one of our resident Truthers. Get a handicam and put your own video on Youtube claiming it was you that planted the nuclear bomb or the thermite. Aren't you tempted to claim you were the guy who manned the death ray?
As it happens I suspect that any insider did try to reveal the truth they would
a. Be utterly ignored
b. Suffer the fate of David Kelly - who committed a far less egregious offence.

Allow me to demonstrate the awesome lethality of the Alan Parsons' Project...

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Old 5th October 2011, 03:07 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
That's a most interesting parallel. How different is 9/11 ? A controlled media, Nobody significant would listen, Fear of being accused of insanity.
Apart from the facts that the "controlled media" doesn't exist, significant people have listened and say that the truthers' theories are hogwash, none of the prominent truthers have actually suffered anything as a result of accusations of insanity, and the fear in Nazi Germany was less of being "accused of insanity" and more of being quietly spirited away by the Gestapo, dispatched with a bullet to the back of the head in a filthy cellar and buried in an unmarked grave, in fact, it's an almost perfect parallel.

(In fact, it is a perfect parallel to reality, but only if you use the definition "not intersecting at any point".)

And, of course, within ten years after the Holocaust, rather a lot of people had admitted to their part in it. It took a change of government, of course; if only something like that had happened in the USA in the last ten years, then we might see some whistleblowers.

(But, of course, in truther fantasy world, the Democrats and Rebublicans, who hate each other so much that they're almost prepared to allow their country to collapse economically before they agree on how they're going to pay the gas bill, are all part of the same organisation, so changes in government don't mean anything either.)

The sad thing about having been here for a while is that I've already seen all the BS so I have a good idea what the next absurd responses are going to be. The nearest thing to unexpected to happen round here is the way bill smith, formerly just a harmless delusional fool, is now cosying up to the despicable human debris that fill the ranks of the Holocaust deniers. I hope you have fun with your new friends, bill, because it won't be long before they're the only ones you've got.

Dave
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Old 5th October 2011, 03:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Apart from the facts that the "controlled media" doesn't exist, significant people have listened and say that the truthers' theories are hogwash, none of the prominent truthers have actually suffered anything as a result of accusations of insanity, and the fear in Nazi Germany was less of being "accused of insanity" and more of being quietly spirited away by the Gestapo, dispatched with a bullet to the back of the head in a filthy cellar and buried in an unmarked grave, in fact, it's an almost perfect parallel.
Yes, although I believe David Kelly was cremated in a simple but dignified ceremony, but otherwise your analogy holds.

I am not sure there is any record that Konrad Morgen ever felt in any danger in being sent to a KZ, let alone a bullet in the head. But perhaps Mr Rogers' has more information?
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Old 5th October 2011, 03:24 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Yes, although I believe David Kelly was cremated in a simple but dignified ceremony, but otherwise your analogy holds.
And, of course, the media reported his death and has extensively questioned the circumstances surrounding it, there is a general public understanding that no WMD were found in Iraq, and it is widely debated whether the Blair government deliberately misrepresented the intelligence in order to justify war, suggesting that the ability of the state to cover up its misdeeds is somewhat less than absolute. But delusional idealogues have to feast on the few crumbs they can pick up from between the floorboards, so please don't let me stop you pretending that one suspicious suicide doth a police state make.

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
I am not sure there is any record that Konrad Morgen ever felt in any danger in being sent to a KZ, let alone a bullet in the head. But perhaps Mr Rogers' has more information?
It's almost certain that I have more information, because I haven't been through a rigorous process of denying the existence of any that disagrees with my prejudices. For example, I note that the major figures involved in the al-Qaeda attacks on the USA in 2001 have all admitted to their part in the attacks, whereas no participant in a conspiracy to carry out a false flag attack in 2001 has done the same despite the fact that the leaders of the 9/11 truth movement are still free to make a good living off the claim that, supposedly, the US government will imprison people in a mental hospital for making.

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Old 5th October 2011, 03:30 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Apart from the facts that the "controlled media" doesn't exist, significant people have listened and say that the truthers' theories are hogwash, none of the prominent truthers have actually suffered anything as a result of accusations of insanity, and the fear in Nazi Germany was less of being "accused of insanity" and more of being quietly spirited away by the Gestapo, dispatched with a bullet to the back of the head in a filthy cellar and buried in an unmarked grave, in fact, it's an almost perfect parallel.

(In fact, it is a perfect parallel to reality, but only if you use the definition "not intersecting at any point".)

And, of course, within ten years after the Holocaust, rather a lot of people had admitted to their part in it. It took a change of government, of course; if only something like that had happened in the USA in the last ten years, then we might see some whistleblowers.


(But, of course, in truther fantasy world, the Democrats and Rebublicans, who hate each other so much that they're almost prepared to allow their country to collapse economically before they agree on how they're going to pay the gas bill, are all part of the same organisation, so changes in government don't mean anything either.)

The sad thing about having been here for a while is that I've already seen all the BS so I have a good idea what the next absurd responses are going to be. The nearest thing to unexpected to happen round here is the way bill smith, formerly just a harmless delusional fool, is now cosying up to the despicable human debris that fill the ranks of the Holocaust deniers. I hope you have fun with your new friends, bill, because it won't be long before they're the only ones you've got.

Dave
You debunkers seem to be terribly fixated on the Holocaust Dave. Who cares about the Holocaust in 2011 ? and what has that got to do with 9/11 anyway? Personally I don't talk about it for the most part. it's just a distraction.
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Old 5th October 2011, 04:02 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
You debunkers seem to be terribly fixated on the Holocaust Dave. Who cares about the Holocaust in 2011 ? and what has that got to do with 9/11 anyway? Personally I don't talk about it for the most part. it's just a distraction.
A truther is the one who brought it up on this very thread, bill.

LGR seems to care very much. I've never seen one more fixated on the Holocaust as LGR. He seems to think that the environment in 1930's and 1940's Nazi Germany is exactly the same as 21st century United States, because he uses analogies comparing the two all the time.

Just between you and me, bill, I suspect LGR may be a rabid holocaust denier. Shhhhhhh. Don't tell anybody.
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Old 5th October 2011, 04:11 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
LGR seems to care very much.
Indeed, my cursory overview of the 9/11 movement suggests it is pretty hopeless to me. Short of some miracle like an insider suicidally breaking ranks, it will soon be shuffled off into Apollo crankism. In fact it has already.

Leveraging the Holocaust might give a slim chance of 9/11 Truth of achieving a breakthrough, because certain key aspects of the Holocaust can be shown by physical, repeatable methods to be utterly false. And this can be used to demonstrate a paradigm of social control that can be turned against 9/11. Sadly Americans are too stupid and hopeless to really expect this to happen.

But this is all leading to a derail. I am just pointing out in Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany there were was very little in the way of insiders appearing in the public sphere - opposition arose through word-of-mouth and pamphlets - the youtube of their age.

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Old 5th October 2011, 04:26 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
As it happens I suspect that any insider did try to reveal the truth they would
a. Be utterly ignored
I agree. The very idea of an "inside job" is so laughable that no one would take it seriously.
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Old 5th October 2011, 04:29 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
But this is all leading to a derail. I am just pointing out in Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany there were was very little in the way of insiders appearing in the public sphere - opposition arose through word-of-mouth and pamphlets - the youtube of their age.
In Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany, people like you would disappear.
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Old 5th October 2011, 04:45 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
In Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany, people like you would disappear.
At least somebody listened to them.
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Old 5th October 2011, 04:55 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Indeed, my cursory overview of the 9/11 movement suggests it is pretty hopeless to me. Short of some miracle like an insider suicidally breaking ranks, it will soon be shuffled off into Apollo crankism. In fact it has already.

Leveraging the Holocaust might give a slim chance of 9/11 Truth of achieving a breakthrough, because certain key aspects of the Holocaust can be shown by physical, repeatable methods to be utterly false. And this can be used to demonstrate a paradigm of social control that can be turned against 9/11. Sadly Americans are too stupid and hopeless to really expect this to happen.

But this is all leading to a derail. I am just pointing out in Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany there were was very little in the way of insiders appearing in the public sphere - opposition arose through word-of-mouth and pamphlets - the youtube of their age.
And I'm pointing out that Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany were totally different environments in a totally different world. Perhaps in North Korea the word won't get out, but your rationalization of no whistle blowers for 9-11 by pointing to Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia are ludicrous. There are no whistle blowers for 9-11 because there is nothing to whistle blow about.

In your mind there was nothing to whistle blow about in that utopia that was Nazi Germany either, so what's your point anyway?
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Old 5th October 2011, 04:57 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
In Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany, people like you would disappear.
Forget about this one. I live in a place where military rule and martial law are within almost everyone's living memory. I've tried this one on these guys. But what do you do with people who have no shame? We're talking about people who joke about murder on 9/11 or ponder whether anyone really died then. They are disgusting.

As I have said many times, put them in a box and throw it in the ocean.
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Old 5th October 2011, 05:49 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
In Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany, people like you would disappear.
In Soviet Russia, dissidents make government disappear!

Dave
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Old 5th October 2011, 06:58 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
... Sadly Americans are too stupid and hopeless to really expect this to happen.
A Truther calling Americans (or any other nationality) "stupid & hopeless" ...

There just aren't enough laughing dogs ...
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Old 5th October 2011, 07:07 AM   #28
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Without research, I'll bet that even in the most repressive societies, including North Korea, facts manage to escape, and insiders get some opportunity to make their tales known, even if the danger of being killed is great (or even if they eventually got killed for it).

It is really, really hard to maintain a large conspiracy of silence. The only viable conspiracy theories that involve keeping everyone successfully quiet, must involve a relatively small group of people that mostly agree ideologically. Even those, historically, have a poor record, I'll bet.
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Old 5th October 2011, 07:29 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
A Truther calling Americans (or any other nationality) "stupid & hopeless" ...

There just aren't enough laughing dogs ...
I just contacted the Laughing Dog Store. The laughing dogs are indeed back ordered due to increased demand from those dealing with delightfully idiotic statements that LGR makes.

The clerk said she can place an order but can't promise quick delivery on those models. She recommended we use face palms temporarily, but she also can't guarantee even those will be in stock for much longer.
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Old 5th October 2011, 07:40 AM   #30
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It seems the main explanation offered for there being no whistleblowers is that nobody would ever go public with the information because they would be killed or ridiculed or locked up or something. However there are many options available to a whistleblower willing to come forward.

1. Get the information out anonymously (like wikileaks or something)
2. Go tell the story to a reputable reporter under the condition of anonymity.
3. Go to another country that is not allied with the USA and release the information there under government protection.
4. Wait until you have cancer or something and are about to die anyways and go public.
5. Release some information to people in the truth movement that they can independantly verify and have them break the story without mention of your involvement.

Beyond these possibilities there is always the chance that someone decides to do what is right regardless of the risks to themselves. Certainly these sorts of acts are not unheard of in history.

It just doesn't seem possible (at least for any alternative theory I'm aware of) that we could be going on ten years now without anyone coming forward in any way. This leads me to the conclusion that it couldn't have been an inside job and I don't think any debates regarding free fall speed or melted steel could change this conclusion for me.
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Old 5th October 2011, 07:54 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by JLord View Post
Beyond these possibilities there is always the chance that someone decides to do what is right regardless of the risks to themselves. Certainly these sorts of acts are not unheard of in history.
Indeed. Earth's history is absolutely filled with people willing to risk their lives to end injustice.
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Old 5th October 2011, 08:05 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by JLord View Post
However there are many options available to a whistleblower willing to come forward.

1. Get the information out anonymously (like wikileaks or something)
2. Go tell the story to a reputable reporter under the condition of anonymity.
3. Go to another country that is not allied with the USA and release the information there under government protection.
4. Wait until you have cancer or something and are about to die anyways and go public.
5. Release some information to people in the truth movement that they can independantly verify and have them break the story without mention of your involvement.
And who says insiders would only want the truth to come out for the good of society? I'd imagine that if someone were rotten enough to go along with a plot to kill thousands of American civilians on US soil to further the political agenda of the Bush Administration, he'd be rotten enough to blackmail an enemy with the threat of leaking details of his rival's involvement in the plot.

That's one of the main things I figure would hinder people from engaging in an inside job like this. Even if you have no ethical problem with the operation, you certainly don't want to be exposed in front of people who would have such moral qualms.

-Mike
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Old 5th October 2011, 08:12 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Without research, I'll bet that even in the most repressive societies, including North Korea, facts manage to escape, and insiders get some opportunity to make their tales known, even if the danger of being killed is great (or even if they eventually got killed for it).

It is really, really hard to maintain a large conspiracy of silence. The only viable conspiracy theories that involve keeping everyone successfully quiet, must involve a relatively small group of people that mostly agree ideologically. Even those, historically, have a poor record, I'll bet.


Daniel Ellsberg, Governmant insider and whistleblower extraordinaire of the Pentagon papers. Privy to top level government secrets for many years Says:-

''It is a commonplace that "you can't keep secrets in Washington" or "in a democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you're likely to read it the next day in the New York Times." These truisms are flatly false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out that wouldn't in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of Congress and the press is that secrets that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders.'
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Old 5th October 2011, 08:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Indeed. Earth's history is absolutely filled with people willing to risk their lives to end injustice.


Something that I've tried to point out to the truthers before, with predictable results.
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Old 5th October 2011, 08:18 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Daniel Ellsberg, Governmant insider and whistleblower extraordinaire of the Pentagon papers. Privy to top level government secrets for many years Says:-

''It is a commonplace that "you can't keep secrets in Washington" or "in a democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you're likely to read it the next day in the New York Times." These truisms are flatly false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out that wouldn't in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of Congress and the press is that secrets that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders.'
Yea, I'm sure the kind of secrets he's talking about are mass murder by the government, isn't he bill?

In my mind, if Iran Contra can get out, ANYTHING can.
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Old 5th October 2011, 08:23 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Micromegas View Post
And who says insiders would only want the truth to come out for the good of society? I'd imagine that if someone were rotten enough to go along with a plot to kill thousands of American civilians on US soil to further the political agenda of the Bush Administration, he'd be rotten enough to blackmail an enemy with the threat of leaking details of his rival's involvement in the plot.

That's one of the main things I figure would hinder people from engaging in an inside job like this. Even if you have no ethical problem with the operation, you certainly don't want to be exposed in front of people who would have such moral qualms.

-Mike
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad adressed the assembled United Nations the other week saying that he believed the Twin Towers were brought down in a Controlled demolition. While the Americans and Europeans walked out few others did and gave Mahmoud sustained applause at the end of his speech. Clearly most of the World does not reject his statement.

The Japanese leader of the opposition has made clear statements regarding 9/11 as has Andreas von Bulow a former very senior German politician. There are quite a few more such.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1vv7OVtto Andreas von Bulow

Would you like some long lists of senior American military and FBI and on and on ?
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Old 5th October 2011, 08:23 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Daniel Ellsberg, Governmant insider and whistleblower extraordinaire of the Pentagon papers. Privy to top level government secrets for many years Says:-

''It is a commonplace that "you can't keep secrets in Washington" or "in a democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you're likely to read it the next day in the New York Times." These truisms are flatly false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out that wouldn't in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of Congress and the press is that secrets that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders.'


I invite everyone to read the paragraph following this one, and decide if he was really talking about the sorts of secrets that would have to be kept by people involved in mass murder against their own citizens.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=bQl4...ers%22&f=false
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Old 5th October 2011, 08:25 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Yea, I'm sure the kind of secrets he's talking about are mass murder by the government, isn't he bill?

In my mind, if Iran Contra can get out, ANYTHING can.
You get the point then ? Who wants to be murdered or have their family members murdered ? That kind of threat keeps the mind focussed on keeping the mouth firmly shut.
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Old 5th October 2011, 08:43 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad adressed the assembled United Nations the other week saying that he believed the Twin Towers were brought down in a Controlled demolition. While the Americans and Europeans walked out few others did and gave Mahmoud sustained applause at the end of his speech. Clearly most of the World does not reject his statement.

The Japanese leader of the opposition has made clear statements regarding 9/11 as has Andreas von Bulow a former very senior German politician. There are quite a few more such.

Would you like some long lists of senior American military and FBI and on and on ?
Bill,

I'm not sure you even understood the point I was trying to make.

Even if we assume our evil overlords wouldn't have qualms about killing thousands of innocent US civilians to achieve some policy aims, we can't assume they'd want to run the risk of being exposed for their involvement in such a plot. Seeing that there would have had to have been many, many people involved in the 9/11 Inside Job, how would a powerful perp in the military, industry, or the government be sure he wouldn't be exposed through someone's negligence? Or through the machinations of a political rival?

This is the reason I doubt most people would go along with a plot as heinous as the 9/11 Inside Job. If you'd rather take it for granted that high-ranking officials have no ethical qualms about killing thousands of innocent US civilians, and have no concerns about their own security from exposure, then that speaks volumes about your imagination.

-Mike
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Old 5th October 2011, 08:53 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Micromegas View Post
Bill,

I'm not sure you even understood the point I was trying to make.

Even if we assume our evil overlords wouldn't have qualms about killing thousands of innocent US civilians to achieve some policy aims, we can't assume they'd want to run the risk of being exposed for their involvement in such a plot. Seeing that there would have had to have been many, many people involved in the 9/11 Inside Job, how would a powerful perp in the military, industry, or the government be sure he wouldn't be exposed through someone's negligence? Or through the machinations of a political rival?

This is the reason I doubt most people would go along with a plot as heinous as the 9/11 Inside Job. If you'd rather take it for granted that high-ranking officials have no ethical qualms about killing thousands of innocent US civilians, and have no concerns about their own security from exposure, then that speaks volumes about your imagination.

-Mike
It's better not to be so naive. The American Joint Chiefs of staff put their John Hancock's on the Northwood document , proposing the murder of American civilians on American streets to manufacture a reason to attack Cuba. Johnston called the fighters back that were on the way to protect the American sailors on the USS Liberty many of whom were subsequently cut to pieces by Israeli fighters.

So don't tell me that killing a few thousand Americans would cause those animals to lose any sleep, particularly in the high stakes game they were playing- and are still playing.. The proof is in already.
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