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#241 |
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#242 |
Heretic Pharaoh
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Presumably you mean this nonsense: It appears beyond doubt that you are totally unable to accept that there is no historical evidence of any miracle ever occurring. None, DOC. Not one iota. Your claim that there is logical evidence for such an event is too ludicrous to even bother with, other than using such a claim to press home the complete absence of anything even resembling logic in the endless and pathetic apologetics with which you've been spamming this Forum for years. |
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#243 |
Heretic Pharaoh
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#244 |
Heretic Pharaoh
Join Date: Nov 2007
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You have not just a right, but a responsibilty to ensure that such responses contain the actual evidence that you claim to exist. That you feel compelled to use scare quotes around the word evidence itself is ample indication of the non-likelihood of such a thing ever happening. |
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#245 |
Heretic Pharaoh
Join Date: Nov 2007
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No, it's dumb because Sir Ramsay was demonstrably driven by faith rather than by reason to make statements like the one he did about Sir Luke. As US Founding Father, author, printer, political theorist, politician, postmaster, scientist, musician, inventor, satirist, civic activist, statesman, and diplomat Benjamin Franklin said: ![]() Maybe you think Ben Franklin is dumb too, do you DOC? |
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#246 |
Heretic Pharaoh
Join Date: Nov 2007
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No, one doesn't have to wonder any such thing. It's nonsense based on two millenia of institutionalised propaganda conducted by megalomaniacal fiends with a psychopathic interest in exerting power over those whom they subjugated in the name of salvation from horrors that they themselves invented and bolstered in many, many cases by the most abominable systems of punishment ever devised by man. People in any age are completely free to believe whatever they will. Perhaps these punishments were meted out for something more than simple belief. Maybe it was for annoying people to distraction with their endless, babbling proselytising. Seems legit. |
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#247 |
Heretic Pharaoh
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#248 |
Philosopher
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Some skeptics complain the synoptic gospels they are too similar and some skeptics like Tim Callahan complain they are too different. As I have said before I have never seen any alleged contradictions in the Gospels that can't be logically explained. Name an alleged contradiction in the NT and I'll find a website that will give a logical explanation of it. Now if one gospel said Jesus was crucified and one said he was thrown off a cliff that would be a contradiction that could not be explained.
And don't you think the many bishops at the Council of Carthage when they determined which gospels were inspired and were to be the official dogma of the Church knew of these alleged contradictions. They could have easily chose just one gospel to be the official dogma and there wouldn't have been any alleged contradictions. If you wanted to do a bio on Barack Obama and you asked his wife, his oldest daughter, the vice president, and his best friend, to write 5 pages describing everything they knew about him would you throw 2 of those 5 page reports away if two of them had an alleged contradiction on what his first job was. Or would you keep all four of them and get a more full description of him. |
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#249 |
Heretic Pharaoh
Join Date: Nov 2007
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And yet you never do. It's Been there, done that. Please highlight the portion of ddt's post that mentions a dislike of your posts. ![]() |
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#250 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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#251 |
Heretic Pharaoh
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Too similar in style and wording for them not have been copied, either from each other or from a common source. Too different to have been eye witness accounts. You've had this explained to you scores of times and it still escapes you? The complete lack of anything even remotely resembling logic in everything you've ever posted is probably a big pointer to how this situation has come about. ![]() Inventing your own, non-existent contradictions won't serve to distract us from your abject failure to address the ones that do exist. Of course they did. Lying for Jesus is hardly a new phenomenon. They didn't count on us learning to think for ourselves. Pretty arrogant, weren't they? |
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#252 |
Heretic Pharaoh
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Apart from the fact that nobody could possibly be tired of that which does not exist, dafydd's post is simply pointing out the endlessly repetetive nature of your failure to present a cogent argument. You're going to have to start actually reading what people post rather than inventing your own versions of it if you ever hope to correct the situation. |
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#253 |
Man of a Thousand Memes
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"There is no special treatment for guns." ~WildCat, confirmed gun owner. |
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#254 |
Banned
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No kidding, people have bet their entire life savings on sporting events .... people aren't rational critters (well not all the time, and some rarely)
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#255 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,331
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Hey, DOC's back!
What a nice Yule surprise. And he's brought sir Ramsey! Remember sir Ramsey, of the slavegirl Paula fame? Of course it is, DOC, of course it is. And Alexander the Great, too! We ARE in goodly company. DOC, is Thomas Jefferson on the way? |
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#256 |
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#257 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
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i don't think he was dumb, i think 1) (15 March 1851, Glasgow –20 April 1939) that by 1906 he was missing a lot of things we learned in the mean time and (ETA) as pointed out by other driven by faith not fact 2) people which use a 100 year old info unquestionning without realizing they are outdated *are* dumb.
So yeah. That old dumb story about luke being an historien. |
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#258 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Dealt with in the previous thread you spammed with your recycled crap about Ramsay. Like the other lie you often repeat, that he was an atheist converted by the "evidence" he found.
Now about some evidence for your empty tomb claim? From something other than the holey babble. |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#259 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,293
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Here is a great graphic showing the material shared among the Synoptic Gospels. If you scroll down a bit you will fin another, simpler graphic of the first hypothesis of the relationship between the three Synoptic Gospels. According to this view, Matthew was the first of the three, and Mark was based on Matthew. Finally, Luke was based on both Matthew and Mark. So, who was the author of this hypothesis? Was it an atheist? A skeptic? Perhaps a Gnostic Christian trying to discredit the canonical gospels? In fact, it was none of these. Rather, it was an orthodox Christian, St. Augustine. He came up with this hypothesis in the fifth century.
Of course, I'm not complaining. I'm merely pointing things out to you. [quote=DOC;8870087]As I have said before I have never seen any alleged contradictions in the Gospels that can't be logically explained. Name an alleged contradiction in the NT and I'll find a website that will give a logical explanation of it. Now if one gospel said Jesus was crucified and one said he was thrown off a cliff that would be a contradiction that could not be explained.[QUOTE/] The contradictions I've pointed out to you are gross contradictions that cannot be harmonized, For example, either the women who met the angel at the tomb were so terrified that they ran away and told nobody of their encounter (Mark) or they told the disciples (Matthew). Either Jesus expressly gave the message he would meet the disciples in Galilee, and did so (Matthew) or he expressly told them not to leave Jerusalem (Luke). Either the risen Christ appeared to nobody (Mark), first appeared to women (Matthew and John) or did not appear to any of the women (Luke, 1 Corinthians). [quote=DOC;8870087]And don't you think the many bishops at the Council of Carthage when they determined which gospels were inspired and were to be the official dogma of the Church knew of these alleged contradictions. They could have easily chose just one gospel to be the official dogma and there wouldn't have been any alleged contradictions.[QUOTE/] I suspect they were under pressure to make what were essentially political compromises between various groups that each supported one gospel or the other. Of course, the contradictions I've pointed out to you are far greater than your example. Also, they weren't written by eyewitnesses. |
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#260 |
Philosopher
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DOC: Another problem with the veracity of the gospels is that they vary greatly from history. For example, according to Mt. 2:16 Herod the Great had all the male children two years of age and younger put to death, not only in Bethlehem, but in the regions surrounding the town, in an effort to kill the child destined, by the word of the Magi, to be king. Yet, Josephus, who speaks of Herod the Great and his evils in great detail, says nothing of this incident. This isn't something Josephus would have left out, and, had it happened, it's virtually impossible that it could have happened without his knowing of it.
Consider also Palm Sunday. What do we have to accept as true to accept this as a historical event? We have to believe that Jesus entered Jerusalem, hailed by crowds as a king, with the people crying "Hosannah!," meaning "Save us!" or, by extension, "Free us!" Yet, the Romans supposedly did nothing. However, we know from history that the Romans dealt harshly with putative messiahs, and that Pontius Pilatus was noted, not for his mercy or indecision, but rather for meting out gratuitous, excessive violence when his power was challenged. |
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#261 |
Philosopher
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So I assume you believe Jesus is a myth even though we have 31 Christian and 9 non-Christian historical written sources for his life (total of 40) compared to 9 non-Christian and 1 Christian source (total of 10) for the life of Tiberius Caesar (the emperor during the life of Jesus).
And also, I assume you disagree with skeptic Bart Ehrman who said Jesus "certainly existed" in his latest book. |
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#262 |
Troublesome Passenger
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Of these, how many were a contemporary source? Not including the biblical ones of course.
If you keep hitching your intellectual wagon to the likes of Geisler, Turek and Strobel (with a nod to Ehrman when convenient) you will continue to have it upended in as many threads as you care to open. |
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#263 |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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#264 |
Philosopher
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You've got to admit the guy has a thing for detail. Scroll down this link a little ways until you get to a list of the 84 facts of Gospel writer Luke. For that matter so did gospel writer John, scroll down further until you get to the 59 facts of John.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...-Be-an-Atheist |
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#265 |
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#266 |
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It seems likely that dafydd has read the other threads in which your pathetic attempts to demonstrate the historical accuracy of these alleged sources have been completely shredded every single one of the scores of times you've made them. Likewise, anyone who has read the utter demolition of the fifth rate apologetics in that book (which you yourself haven't even read) which took place in TTTWND would have no hesitation in disagreeing with Ehrman. |
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#267 |
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#268 |
Heretic Pharaoh
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#269 |
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#270 |
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I am not the one who said:
"Some skeptics complain the synoptic gospels they are too similar and some skeptics like Tim Callahan complain they are too different. As I have said before I have never seen any alleged contradictions in the Gospels that can't be logically explained. Name an alleged contradiction in the NT and I'll find a website that will give a logical explanation of it. Now if one gospel said Jesus was crucified and one said he was thrown off a cliff that would be a contradiction that could not be explained." (quoting you) I have a logical explanation for the differences among the gospels--even about such pivotal things as the birth of, or the death of, the supposed messiah. You said you could provide a "logical explanation" for "alleged contradictions in the NT". I am curious to see the hand-waving, special pleading, interpolations, redactions, and secondary/tertiary sources you would present as a "logical explanation". |
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"They want to make their molehills equal to the mountains by cutting the mountains down." -turingtest "The universe did not come from nothing, it came from 'We don't know'." -Dancing David "Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze |
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#271 |
Heretic Pharaoh
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I've already searched the entire web and all I found were the same logic-challenged evasions, muddle-headed obfuscations and outright lies that you've been posting here for years. But it's Wednesday! Answers day! Stick to the scenario, DOC. The most noticeable thing is that you aren't answering any of them. |
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#272 |
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#273 |
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Why is it that so many non believers occupy their time trying to prove there is no God? Why bother?
True believers know, they have the knowledge within, and do not need to prove anything. Matthew Chapter 16 : 13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Cæsarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that Thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. The Lord has said “My sheep know my voice” .... Mosiah 6:10–13. John 10:1–15. John 21:15–17. Isaiah 40:10–11. The true sheep know His voice. The true Shepherd knows and owns His sheep and He calls them. http://www.lds.org/manual/the-life-a...sheep+know+%22 |
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#274 |
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#275 |
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#276 |
Heretic Pharaoh
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Asking for evidence of the historical accuracy of a book that millions of people claim contains the word of the all-powerful creator of the Universe is not "trying to prove there is no God". It's a search for truth, and the inability of believers to furnish the aforementioned evidence tells us that we're probably closer to finding it than they are. No, True Believers™ have belief. Knowledge is a whole 'nother thing. Indeed. |
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#277 |
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Concerning the hilited area: Now that you've made this assertion, back it up with specific facts, citations or links. In other words, you need to tell us who these nine sources are, so we can judge whether they were contemporaries with Jesus, near contemporaries or later writers.
As to Bart Ehrman and the historicity of Jesus, it's one thing to say that Jesus existed, quite another to say he walked on water, cast out demons, cured leper etc. or rose from the dead. |
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#278 |
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Concerning the hilited area: Now that you've made this assertion, back it up with specific facts, citations or links. In other words, you need to tell us who these nine sources are, so we can judge whether they were contemporaries with Jesus, near contemporaries or later writers.
As to Bart Ehrman and the historicity of Jesus, it's one thing to say that Jesus existed, quite another to say he walked on water, cast out demons, cured leper etc. or rose from the dead. |
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#279 |
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#280 |
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