|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#1 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,863
|
STD's in the McMartin case
I was going back thru some of the McMartin threads scattered throughout the forums and was unable to find a definitive answer to a few questions.
Who was the original claim of STD's made by, and what sort was it, how many kids got the STD, and did it really turn out they had these STD's? What is the rate of that STD in the general population at that age (I guess I'm asking, in the general population, how many kids, of the kids who are molested had that particular STD)? How many did the prosecution claim had these STD's? What was the eventual shakedown on the cases of STD? |
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: orange country, california
Posts: 9,429
|
Hi,
I had never heard of STD's in association with the McMartin school case. But I was interested enough that I went poking around. I found a bit of the routine anecdotal stuff that hangs around as the routine chaff that these kind of things generate, but I didn't find anything of substance until I hit on the guy pipelineaudio pontificating in another forum.
Quote:
I also didn't know about the Ted Gunderson/McMartin school case/Art Bell tie-in. I wonder what that fellow pipelinaudio that seems so smart on the other forum would have to say about all that. The only thing I know about this is this long video that I looked at some of: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...84152254825718 ETA: I didn't know anything about Ted Gunderson before I started digging around. Seems like a bit of an interesting fellow and a bit of a whack job. Not sure of what the truth is but one thing seems clear. He's dead. He died July 31, 2011. |
__________________
The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,863
|
That pipelineaudio guy is actually a numbnutz....the only good stuff he knows is what he gets from reading the jref
|
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,863
|
Skepticginger are you around? You seemed to know a lot about the case
|
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
|
You can try to PM her.
All i know from the case I learned from wiki and a few other web site. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
|
I don't think there was any evidence in the case (in court) as to STDs. Jacque McGauley (who's a member here - Jacque) mentioned that there was ONE little girl who had an STD, but whose mother would not allow her to be a part of the trial.
There have been other articles that also mention STDs, but from interviews - not from police records or from the trial. There was no medical testimony on either side of the question ever introduced into evidence that I know of. |
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: orange country, california
Posts: 9,429
|
I went back and looked at the McMartin case thread that jacque participated in.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=74468 I searched it for references to STD and I didn't find any. I did find this comment by the poster, davefoc: I think I like that guy. He seems pretty reasonable and it sounds like his opinion about all this is probably correct. |
__________________
The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,863
|
Crap, Jackie just showed up, apparently didn't learn anything from the JREF, unfortunately
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=90315&page=2 |
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,073
|
No STD's, only a Salem witch hunt type of hysteria :
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Loftus Loftus has become a controversial figure since her testimony at the daycare panic child abuse trials, including the McMartin trials, with a variety of groups developing massive hate-ons due to her crossing their agendas. The more frothing-at-the-mouth members of the religious right decried her for covering up the ritual abuse of the vast Satanist conspiracy. Despite the charges being dropped in the McMartin cases with the help of Loftus, the school was demolished and the foundations dug up due to testimony by some of the children that there was a clandestine network of tunnels and catacombs that the Satanic rituals took place in. |
__________________
![]() |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,863
|
Any way to verify that? I'm dealing with true believers, not just in this case, but in invisible sky monsters as well
|
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,871
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,871
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,871
|
OK, looking at this thread I feel for the mother, however, my empathy is because she's been duped, not because her child was abused in some kind of Satanic ritual. The kids and parents were victims of the witch hunters and the incompetent interviewers, not victims of real physical abusers.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,871
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,863
|
|
__________________
Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,871
|
You can't find any links because there weren't any STDs. There wasn't any physical evidence any of the kids were ever sexually abused.
But here, try this: the cross examination of Dr. Bruce Woodling, director of medical examinations for Ventura County (Witness for the Prosecution). Notice the cross is all about the incredulity of diagnosing abuse occurred when no physical evidence of abuse was found. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,258
|
Another one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_C...ual_abuse_case . How this person managed to: 1) obtain an elephant 2) kill it (how?) in front of the class 3) dispose of several tons of dead elephant and 4) the owner of the elephant not raising a question got to me.. The DA in this case had to be frothing at the mouth while presenting her "evidence" to a jury. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
NWO Litter Technician
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 14,378
|
|
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,466
|
I'd be suspicious as to what any finding of molestation or STDs in the children could mean to the case, anyway. Because IIRC, wasn't it some 400 children who were ultimately "involved" in this case? In that large a segment, you're going to find some kids who've been molested elsewhere, by someone else, almost as a given. One or two, anyway, certainly.
A finding of evidence of molestation wouldn't mean much to me in this case, unless there were significant corroborating evidence to tie it to the defendants, like DNA or some such. It's possible there were molested kids in that group--molested by someone else. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 19,258
|
The kids were molested by the investigators that ginned up their recalled memories of the extreme fantasies of the obviously disturbed investigators and the prosecutors!
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#21 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
|
It was a long google search to find it. Can't remember if I googled "STD & McMArtin" or her name and STD. Down around the end of the page of links was a link-back to our own thread and someone commenting on Jacquie's comment and then a track back to there. I believe the latter, because I remember not finding it on the first hunt.
But it's in that long thread. And as sling noted, with the number of kids involved, the chance that one might have some form of STD is relatively high. The greater proof, though, is negative. She maintains that one kid (whose mom wouldn't allow to testify) had an STD. No one's mentioned more than one (the other articles were comments on comments and I couldn't find anything formal) and if there was one, in a case of RAMPANT abuse, there would've been others. None of the kids that were part of the trial had STDs. |
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|