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Old 27th October 2011, 08:23 AM   #1
Walter Ego
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JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

Quote:
When the Internet was in its infancy, a friend of mine introduced me to Internet newsgroups. I was thrilled at the idea of being able to instantly communicate with other serious researchers like myself from around the globe. He logged on to alt.conspiracy.jfk and turned the keyboard and mouse over to me. I eagerly began browsing the topics and reading a few entries. "Oh my gawd!" I exclaimed, absolutely horrified. "These people are nuttier than a fruit cake!" My friend laughed his fool head off.

To say that things have only gotten worse would be an understatement. My early vision of an Internet utopia where serious research and discussion of the Kennedy assassination would lead to truth and clarity floundered on the rocks of reality on day one. It never occurred to me that the Internet might allow lonely, irrational, and psychotic people to clutter up the chat rooms and discussion boards. And God knows, the Kennedy assassination is one big magnet.

The worse part about the Internet and the Kennedy assassination is that the technology has allowed old myths to rise from the ashes and proliferate. Spin down the subject headings of any newsgroup: The Figure in the Doorway, Two Rifles on the Sixth Floor, The Sidewalk Scar, Tommy Tilson's Car Chase, James Files and the Dented Cartridge Case, and on and on. These subjects were not just debunked decades ago - they were destroyed beyond recognition and don't belong in any serious discussion, except perhaps as part of a brief and whimsical look back on what passed for "important" issues. Yet, there they are - hot, time-wasting topics for a new generation of young, naive minds. Sadly, this cycle of endless myth-making, destruction, and resurrection will never go away. It is the heart of the Internet.

Posted by Dale K. Myers

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/06/it-never-ends.html
Nothing has changed much on alt.conspiracy.jfk since Myers wrote this back in 2007. Check out this thread to see how the conspiracy loons handle even mild criticism.
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Old 27th October 2011, 08:44 AM   #2
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Yes the same affect and reaction was noted for archaeology and pseudo-archaeology. The internet allowed the crackpots to organize!
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Old 27th October 2011, 01:00 PM   #3
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Last time I dabbled Mac Wallace was meant to have shot JFK for LBJ. With or with out the CIA merging the lives of Lee and Harvey Oswalds.


It got even more insane than that?
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Old 27th October 2011, 06:04 PM   #4
Walter Ego
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
Last time I dabbled Mac Wallace was meant to have shot JFK for LBJ. With or with out the CIA merging the lives of Lee and Harvey Oswalds.


It got even more insane than that?
Mac Wallace was just one of many alternative assassins, including Woody Harrelson's father (who along with E. Howard Hunt was one of the three tramps). And let's not forget Ricky Don White who announced in 1990 that My Daddy Killed JFK, something that Woody would not even fess up to.

Last edited by Walter Ego; 27th October 2011 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 28th October 2011, 02:35 AM   #5
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Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it?
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Old 28th October 2011, 02:55 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
The internet allowed the crackpots to organize!
"Organize" is probably too strong a word, and it has connotations that certainly do not apply. "Reach a critical mass of stupid" is more like it.
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Old 28th October 2011, 05:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it?
In general no, but there are several antisemitic conspiracy theorists like Michael Collins Piper and Gregory Douglas who have tried to ride the interest in JFK and produced antisemitically-inflected JFK CTs.
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Old 28th October 2011, 05:50 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it?
No, actually. The favorite suspects have been the same for the last 40 plus years. CIA, mob, Castro, military industrial complex, LBJ, etc.

The JFK conspiracy kooktards are as detestable as their 9/11 truther counterparts (who, in delicious irony, they label as kooks) in their arrogance but anti-semitism is one charge you can't use against them.
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Old 28th October 2011, 05:55 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it?
Yes, they have. One obsessive "anti-Zionist" I know on the internet has decided that it came down to JFK trying to stop Israel getting nuclear weapons. So the Israelis had JFK whacked and then LBJ winked at their nuclear weapons programme. This "theorist" even concocted his own versions of JFK speeches such as the "secret society" speech by replacing the actual words with things like "Israel" and "Mossad" etc...

Apparently James Jesus Angleton was also involved somehow.
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Old 28th October 2011, 06:24 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Apparently James Jesus Angleton was also involved somehow.
People seem to believe just about anything about guys whose name is Jesus.
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Old 28th October 2011, 04:55 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
People seem to believe just about anything about guys whose name is Jesus.
Just imagine if his name had been James Yeshua Angleton
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Old 28th October 2011, 06:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
"Organize" is probably too strong a word, and it has connotations that certainly do not apply. "Reach a critical mass of stupid" is more like it.
I bow to a superior statement
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Old 29th October 2011, 04:43 AM   #13
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Any Critical Thinkers Here? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
No, actually. The favorite suspects have been the same for the last 40 plus years. CIA, mob, Castro, military industrial complex, LBJ, etc.

The JFK conspiracy kooktards are as detestable as their 9/11 truther counterparts (who, in delicious irony, they label as kooks) in their arrogance but anti-semitism is one charge you can't use against them.
"Kooktards, Truther counterparts, anti-Zionists, Conspiracy Nuts, etc., etc., etc. And here I thought this forum was for critical thinkers.

Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? On previous JFK boards, no one dare answer betraying (A. a lack of scholarship on the subject, or (B. a retreat into the fog of a thousand pieces of evidenciary minutia, not one piece of which holds up under scrutiny..
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Old 29th October 2011, 05:07 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
"Kooktards, Truther counterparts, anti-Zionists, Conspiracy Nuts, etc., etc., etc. And here I thought this forum was for critical thinkers.

Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? On previous JFK boards, no one dare answer betraying (A. a lack of scholarship on the subject, or (B. a retreat into the fog of a thousand pieces of evidenciary minutia, not one piece of which holds up under scrutiny..
That's a loaded question - and you know it. There's no single piece of "strongest evidence". Put everything together, though - for the conspiracy believers or for the adherents of the single assassin, and the gestalt of anyone viewing the evidence without bias would fall to the side of the lone gunman.


Although I'm always still a bit suspicious as to why the Warren Commission didn't uncover anything on the former club connections between Ruby and Oswald.
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Old 29th October 2011, 05:34 AM   #15
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I also like the way that Conspiracy Folks need to justify Lee Harvey Oswald being both pro and anti cuban with something other "The kind of guy who joins those kinds of groups for attention".
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Old 29th October 2011, 05:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
"Kooktards, Truther counterparts, anti-Zionists, Conspiracy Nuts, etc., etc., etc. And here I thought this forum was for critical thinkers.

Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? On previous JFK boards, no one dare answer betraying (A. a lack of scholarship on the subject, or (B. a retreat into the fog of a thousand pieces of evidenciary minutia, not one piece of which holds up under scrutiny..
The backyard photographs.

Admittedly you cannot deduce from that that he was the lone assassin but in the absence of evidence that there were other assassins that seems to be the best thing going.
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Old 29th October 2011, 06:14 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The backyard photographs.

Admittedly you cannot deduce from that that he was the lone assassin but in the absence of evidence that there were other assassins that seems to be the best thing going.
Uh oh! Counting down to Jack White in 3.... 2....
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Old 29th October 2011, 06:32 AM   #18
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We only have evidence for Oswald. Any more, or different shooters are possible, but are not plausible with out evidence to support them. There is evidence that suggests the possibility, but little more in real terms.
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Old 29th October 2011, 06:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Uh oh! Counting down to Jack White in 3.... 2....
You mean this Jack White?

Quote:
Jack White, statement on the assassination of John F. Kennedy (31st March, 2004)

(1) President Kennedy was murdered by a cabal headed by Lyndon Johnson, Allen Dulles, J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon. The CIA and Pentagon carried out the hit... with help from Cubans and mobsters.

(2) Lee Oswald and Harvey Oswald were agents of the CIA and did not kill JFK. Both were controlled by the CIA.

(3) Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King were killed by the same cabal. Similar fate befell several others who threatened the cabal, such as George Wallace, Larry Flynt, John Lennon and Marilyn Monroe. Teddy Kennedy and Richard Nixon also were "eliminated" by the cabal. An attempt on the life of President Reagan tried to install G.H.W. Bush as president, but it failed, and Bush One had to wait his turn. Gerald Ford was installed as president because he was a willing stooge of the cabal.

(4) It is scientifically provable that the Zapruder film of the JFK assassination is a fabrication by the government.

Teddy Kennedy and Richard Nixon? The conspirators sure took their sweet time "eliminating" them. I guess that's why "eliminated" is in scare quotes. And Robert Prey is upset that I called people like this "kooktards"?

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Old 29th October 2011, 06:46 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
You mean this Jack White?
Yep, pretty sure that's the same Jack White. The self-described "photo expert". He's also got some charming work on the Pentagon,and Apollo Hoax, I believe. Funny how that puff piece in your link doesn't describe his embarassing testimony in front of the Warren Commission - on the topic of the backyard photos, which is why I alluded to him.

(He's often cited as the grand poobah of photographic evidence and is a complete charlatan in that area, but conspiradroids love him.)
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Old 29th October 2011, 07:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Yep, pretty sure that's the same Jack White. The self-described "photo expert". He's also got some charming work on the Pentagon,and Apollo Hoax, I believe. Funny how that puff piece in your link doesn't describe his embarassing testimony in front of the Warren Commission - on the topic of the backyard photos, which is why I alluded to him.

(He's often cited as the grand poobah of photographic evidence and is a complete charlatan in that area, but conspiradroids love him.)

White is mentioned on this page along with some of other bogus JFK photographic "experts." My favorite "expert" is Robert Groden who was riding high in the 1970s doing campus tours with Dick Gregory screening his bootleg copy of the Zapruder film.

Groden was blown out of the water during the O.J. Simpson trial where he testified that a photo of Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes was faked. The prosecutors produced thirty other photos by different photographers showing Simpson wearing the same shoes and totally exposed Groden's compete lack of qualifications and experience as any kind of "expert."

Groden currently makes his living peddling JFK conspiracy literature in Dealey Plaza. How the mighty have fallen!

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Old 29th October 2011, 07:24 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
You mean this Jack White?




Teddy Kennedy and Richard Nixon? The conspirators sure took their sweet time "eliminating" them. I guess that's why "eliminated" is in scare quotes. And Robert Prey is upset that I called people like this "kooktards"?
The idea must be that Teddy Kennedy was 'removed' as a viable presidential candidate as a result of Chappaquiddick and Nixon forced from office due to Watergate, thus 'eliminated' from power.

I guess they must think someone ran Teddy off the road or exposed it when it could have stayed hidden?

At this point this 'cabal' must control about everything, I think there's one conspiracy we can prove. Humans did it! The human race is conspiring against itself! Why has no one else discovered this? They're everywhere I tell you!
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Old 29th October 2011, 07:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
That's a loaded question - and you know it. There's no single piece of "strongest evidence". Put everything together, though - for the conspiracy believers or for the adherents of the single assassin, and the gestalt of anyone viewing the evidence without bias would fall to the side of the lone gunman.


Although I'm always still a bit suspicious as to why the Warren Commission didn't uncover anything on the former club connections between Ruby and Oswald.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...bebe0cccf1.jpg
There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge.
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Old 29th October 2011, 07:42 AM   #24
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Oswald's Ghost

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The backyard photographs.

Admittedly you cannot deduce from that that he was the lone assassin but in the absence of evidence that there were other assassins that seems to be the best thing going.

No, you certainly cannot deduce from those backyard photos that LHO was the lone assassin, but upon close examination, you can deduce a carefully planned frame-up to influence the Court of Public Opinion. There is strong evidence of forgery in these photos. And although Marina originally testified that she took the photos, she subsequently changed her mind. And have you seen the backyard photo of Oswald's ghost? Very incriminating of a forgery and frame-up by the government.
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Old 29th October 2011, 07:43 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge.
How about the absence of evidence for more than one assassin? Evidence shows one man was involved, no evidence shows that anyone else was involved, therefore the evidence shows that most likely he was the only one.
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Old 29th October 2011, 07:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge.
So what's your single piece of BEST evidence that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK? Evidence, mind you, material or circumstantial, not suspicions or coincidences or "unanswered questions."
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Old 29th October 2011, 07:50 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
How about the absence of evidence for more than one assassin? Evidence shows one man was involved, no evidence shows that anyone else was involved, therefore the evidence shows that most likely he was the only one.
First of all, the absence of evidence is not evidence. Nonetheless, there is a mountain of evidence that points to a conspiracy. But hundreds of books have been written on the subject and this is only a small space. I'll get to it later, only citing two pieces of evidence, for the sake of brevity.
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Old 29th October 2011, 07:52 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
So what's your single piece of BEST evidence that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK? Evidence, mind you, material or circumstantial, not suspicions or coincidences or "unanswered questions."
I'll get to that, but I'd first like to prove that no one on this board can successfully answer my challenge. So far, three replies, but no cigar.
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Old 29th October 2011, 08:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge.
No one's failed your challenge because the challenge is bogus. As you'll note, I already told you I wasn't slipping into your rhetorical trap.

That's some great way to judge a case. I wonder why it hasn't caught on in the courts, yet? "Okay, the District Attorney will be allowed to present one piece of evidence - they get to choose their best single piece - but no others."
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Old 29th October 2011, 08:13 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
I'll get to that, but I'd first like to prove that no one on this board can successfully answer my challenge. So far, three replies, but no cigar.
Because the challenge is bogus. You're making up a rule that everyone has to adhere to and it has no place in scientific enquiry, evidenciary hearings, jurisprudence or critical thinking.

My best single piece of evidence: The Warren Commission Report - all of it.

And I think Bill Clinton might have a suggestion as to what you can do with that cigar, Robert.
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Old 29th October 2011, 08:14 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin?


Oswald's rifle was stored in the Paine's garage before the assassination then was found in the TSBD.
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Old 29th October 2011, 08:32 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
And although Marina originally testified that she took the photos, she subsequently changed her mind. And have you seen the backyard photo of Oswald's ghost? Very incriminating of a forgery and frame-up by the government.
Apparently Marina still stands by her story that she took the photos.

Never seen Oswald's ghost, no. What does Oswald's ghost say?
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Old 29th October 2011, 08:42 AM   #33
Walter Ego
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
I'll get to that, but I'd first like to prove that no one on this board can successfully answer my challenge. So far, three replies, but no cigar.
You are playing games here and I don't play games with conspiritoids. Your challenge is bogus. There is never one piece of evidence that convicts a defendant in a criminal case. There is abundant evidence the Oswald killed Kennedy.

I have other things to do today. I'll check back tonight to see if you can come of with ONE piece of evidence for a conspiracy.
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Old 29th October 2011, 08:53 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
First of all, the absence of evidence is not evidence. Nonetheless, there is a mountain of evidence that points to a conspiracy.
The kind of mountain that is invisible to all but the true believer?

Quote:
But hundreds of books have been written on the subject and this is only a small space. I'll get to it later, only citing two pieces of evidence, for the sake of brevity.
By all means, do it. We´re waiting.
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Old 29th October 2011, 09:18 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
There is strong evidence of forgery in these photos.

You would be referring to Jack White's "analysis", of course. Jack White, the man who has repeatedly demonstrated he cannot visualize the world in three dimensions and was responsible for this unbelievable example of intellectual dishonesty: http://www.clavius.org/earthmt.html
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Old 29th October 2011, 09:23 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Robert Prey View Post
Nonetheless, there is a mountain of evidence that points to a conspiracy.
And you can't even be bothered to show the mountaintop?
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Old 29th October 2011, 09:48 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Yep, pretty sure that's the same Jack White. The self-described "photo expert". He's also got some charming work on the Pentagon,and Apollo Hoax, I believe. Funny how that puff piece in your link doesn't describe his embarassing testimony in front of the Warren Commission - on the topic of the backyard photos, which is why I alluded to him.

(He's often cited as the grand poobah of photographic evidence and is a complete charlatan in that area, but conspiradroids love him.)
.
He is sincere.....ly deluded.
I've talked with him on the Compuserve Conspiracy forum, and he doesn't come across as a charlatan, just deluded... invincibly so.
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Old 29th October 2011, 09:54 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Because the challenge is bogus. You're making up a rule that everyone has to adhere to and it has no place in scientific enquiry, evidenciary hearings, jurisprudence or critical thinking.

My best single piece of evidence: The Warren Commission Report - all of it.

And I think Bill Clinton might have a suggestion as to what you can do with that cigar, Robert.
.
The Warren Commission Report - ALL of it !
And Posner's examination of the event.
The hundreds of fairy tales spewed out of the conspiracy sewer are just garbage. That which isn't bat-crap crazy... Weisberg, Livingstone... is only intended to make your money the CTwinky's money. Groden, Lane, Lifton..
Trask's "Pictures of the Pain" is a good source also.
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Old 29th October 2011, 09:55 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
And you can't even be bothered to show the mountaintop?
.
It's in the conspiracy sewer, which is deeper than the mountain is high.
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Old 29th October 2011, 09:59 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Walter Ego View Post
White is mentioned on this page along with some of other bogus JFK photographic "experts." My favorite "expert" is Robert Groden who was riding high in the 1970s doing campus tours with Dick Gregory screening his bootleg copy of the Zapruder film.

Groden was blown out of the water during the O.J. Simpson trial where he testified that a photo of Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes was faked. The prosecutors produced thirty other photos by different photographers showing Simpson wearing the same shoes and totally exposed Groden's compete lack of qualifications and experience as any kind of "expert."

Groden currently makes his living peddling JFK conspiracy literature in Dealey Plaza. How the mighty have fallen!
.
We were amused at Groden's "examination" of the negatives of OJ in the 'ugly ass shoes', pointing out all the places where the -color negative- had been retouched!!!!!!!
Lifton told us that Groden protested Lifton's presence in the court room, and had him removed...
I guess one liar at a time is enough for anything.
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