What Makes Something Funny?

Skeptical Greg

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Skeptical Greg
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The recent controversy about the appropriateness of posting jokes in R & P, and when is a joke 'just a joke', got me to thinking about this...

Someone once pointed out, that it is very difficult, as adults, to find something that makes us laugh that does not in someway degrade or ridcule another person ... ( or oneself )...

While childhood seems to have a higher share of spontaneous laughter, the cruel things that make us laugh, get an early kick off with the misfortunes of bungling and mangled cartoon characters..


So, this is a challenge for you to present to us a situation, in which you have found yourself laughing, that could not be tied to the real or imagined misfortune of someone else...


As an example of how this concept can seem to hide it's true nature; someone might quickly point out:

" Clowns make me laugh .. What's cruel or demeaning about clowns ? "

But a little thought, will reveal what a challenge it is to give us an example of a clown, or their performance, that is not a caricature of a disfigured; or a physically or mentally handicapped person...

I know this cruelty or ridicule is not in our ( most of us ) hearts, or conscious thoughts, when we find ourselves laughing; but I thought I would bring up for discussion, the idea that what we usually find funny, is at the expense of someone else's real or imagined misfortune..
 
Humor = Tragedy + Time *

Think of it as a coping mechanism.

You may have a small chuckle over an odd situation but laughter invariably involves tragedy.
As to your clown example, this is from memory, there are a variety of clown types.
The most basic is one that exemplifies a person or small group's deficiencies (deficiencies as viewed from the larger groups perspective) - a tramp clown or the like. Quiet a few clown acts deal with tragedies or tragic.
For a brief rundown of clowns start at the Clown Ministry.

Ossai

* I know this is a quote but I don't know from whom.
(edited for *)
 
I've heard many good jokes that don't involve tragedy or much in the way of degradation, either.

Maybe laughing just evolved as a way of saying "I like what you just did." Or perhaps it's a way of releasing the tension of the cognitive dissonance caused by the joke.

~~ Paul
 
Diogenes said:
So, this is a challenge for you to present to us a situation, in which you have found yourself laughing, that could not be tied to the real or imagined misfortune of someone else...
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The best definition of humor that I've heard is "a safe shock."

A situation comes up that should have a disastrous or predictable outcome, but then doesn't. Squirting someone with seltzer or throwing a pie in their face isn't funny itself; the non-violent reaction of the person targeted is what makes it funny. If the target responded to the squirting by pulling out a gun and killing the squirter, well then there'd be nothing funny about the squirting.

Same with clowns. You see someone that looks grotesque or downtrodden like a clown does, but then you realize that that person really isn't like that, and it's funny. That's also why people like High-Pitched Eric and Beetlejuice on Howard Stern really aren't funny - because they really are that way.

What's funny is imagined misfortune. Why tragedies become funny over time is the realization that the misfortune, to you, is imagined. Helen Keller jokes are funny because you aren't Helen Keller.

This is also why explaining a joke ruins it - if it's not a safe shock to begin with, no amount of explaining will go back in time and make it shocking.
 
Plays upon the expectation that men desire sex more than anything else.

Nah, it degrades men. That's why it's funny.
 
nonsense.

Another one - a little kid jumping up and down clapping their hands at their excitement at a birthday party (or similar).

more - just about any pun (yes, I know a lot of people hate puns).

witty expressions, such as "If horses were vicious, rides would go begging" (Oscar Wilde)

The scene in Woody Allen's movie where one character (the woman), while talking to her therapist, answer's his question about the frequency of sex, replies "All the time. We're always doing it. In the bedroom. In the kitchen. We must do it 3, 4 times a week." Cut to woody in same situation: "Never. We never do it. My god. Probably no more than 3, 4 times a week". (quotes made up from memory by me)
 
Children generally aren't funny, unless we're laughing at their lack of knowledge or sophistication.

Puns are highly unpleasant. They certainly don't help your case.

Again, making fun of the idea that men are sex-crazed fools who desire sexual stimulation constantly. Also plays off the idea that women hate sex.

See? All funny is pain.
 
I suppose so, if you twist things that way.

I'll choose not too, thanks.
 
Wrath said:
Plays upon the expectation that men desire sex more than anything else.

Nah, it degrades men. That's why it's funny.
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Huh? The guy is clever enough to get his house painted for $20. Mere expectation is not degradation.

Well, maybe it is. But he showed them!

~~ Paul
 
Ah, but we're lead to expect the guy is going to get his tuba polished (if you'll excuse the crudity) for only $20.

The idea that there's something he'd want even more than that is what makes the joke funny.

All funny is pain; yours, or someone else's.
 
Wrath of the Swarm said:
All funny is pain; yours, or someone else's.
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I dont know, some of George Carlin's Short Takes are a gray area:

Test of metal:
* Will of iron
* Nerves of steel
* Heart of gold
* Balls of brass


Kilometers are shorter than miles. Save gas, take your next trip in kilometers


If you mail a letter to the post office, who delivers it?


"On the fritz" is a useful expression only if you're talking about a home appliance. You wouldn't say, "The Space Shuttle is on the fritz." You'd never hear it in a hospital. "Doctor, the heart-lung machine is on the fritz."


Some see the glass as half-empty, some see the glass as half-full. I see the glass as too big.
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Wrath of the Swarm said:
All funny is pain; yours, or someone else's.
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Those who research humor (and there are a few--a former colleague of mine was one) make a distinction between disparagement humor, which is what most examples in this thread have been, and a humor based on the juxtaposition of unexpected elements (exemplified in Freud's Humor and its relation to the unconscious). A clever play on words need not be unkind to any individual or group in order to be funny.

That said, the vast majority of the actual experimental work on humor has examined disparagement humor, in part because it is much easier to look at. And despite Wrath's assertion that no one has figured out the purpose of humor (an odd requirement, unless he means the selective advantage to it, in which case there are a few theories, the dominant one being that it is a social signal of a dominance hierarchy), we do know a bit about gender differences, status differences, some of the "under what conditions is humor employed?" type of questions that science is better at.

Oh, I forgot...there is also a third line of research in humour, one that looks at the physiological correlates. Here, the measurements are most often EEG or other polygraph measures, although one researcher, Ron Shor, invented what he called the "mirthometer" which used strain guages to measure facial expression as his physiological measure (this, of course, ties humor research with that on general emotional expression, which is a pretty cool area itself). Some of the measures are pretty delicate, and are generated by projecting jokes on a screen while the subject is wired up and grounded...not a very "real life" situation, for such a real-life phenomenon. Oddly enough, the humor researcher Shor...committed suicide, shooting himself in his office (and we know that a bullet in the office is fatal) (note, all the elements of a joke, but not funny in the slightest--to me, anyway).
 
When I was kid I loved elephant jokes and knock knock jokes.

Images of elephants jumping out of trees or in the fridge leaving footprints in the butter... and the plays on words of the knock knock were smilers if not always laughers.

So absurdity I guess is the term is not always at anyone's expense - But I did like Dr. Strangelove too and they pretty much blew up the world in that one.
 
Mercutio said:
Oddly enough, the humor researcher Shor...committed suicide, shooting himself in his office (and we know that a bullet in the office is fatal) (note, all the elements of a joke, but not funny in the slightest--to me, anyway).
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That is absolutely hilarious.

Your point about plays on words and puns is well taken, but keep in mind that many people find them mildly unpleasant, even painful. Sometimes the pain in the funny is your own.
 
Wrath of the Swarm said:
That is absolutely hilarious.

Your point about plays on words and puns is well taken, but keep in mind that many people find them mildly unpleasant, even painful. Sometimes the pain in the funny is your own.
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Many people? Got any numbers? Data? I used to follow humour research closely, but have not in the past couple of years. Have you a survey or something I could look at?
 
No, I'm afraid not. I have only my anecdotal experience.

It seems to me that there is a minor but definite cultural tradition that puns are "painful". They're also considered the lowest and least sophisticated form of humor.
 
Wrath of the Swarm said:
No, I'm afraid not. I have only my anecdotal experience.

It seems to me that there is a minor but definite cultural tradition that puns are "painful". They're also considered the lowest and least sophisticated form of humor.
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In defence of the pun
In the last FAPA mailing but one Harry B. Warner said something so dreadful and I can hardly force my hand to write it down. (Three of my fingers are willing enough, but my thumb and forefinger are opposed.) He said -- Ghod forgive him -- that the pun was " the simplest and lowest form of humour". Comes the next FAPA mailing and I see that Warner is still alive -- by FAPA standards anyway. He has not been struck down. Obviously Simon Salt Peter, patron saint of punsters, has left it to me to warn the Warner, and to prove that the pun is not only the most complex, but the very highest--I might even say the all-highest -- form of humour.
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Actually, a pretty nice essay, for those who appreciate the pun.
 
I can see an argument defending the quality and value of puns, but it seems clear they're among the simplest forms of humor.

Possibly laughter is how our brain reconciles and eliminates cognitive dissonance, which would explain a great deal of Samuel Clemens' beliefs about it. Also why people who believe stupid things tend not the have a sense of humor about them.
 
Wrath of the Swarm said:
I can see an argument defending the quality and value of puns, but it seems clear they're among the simplest forms of humor.
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"seems clear"? I will assume that this is once again your opinion, and you have already made it clear that you find puns "highly unpleasant". Puns may be simple, of course, but they may also be extremely sophisticated. I don't much care for Freud, but some of his analyses of puns demonstrate how complex some puns are. Puns are, quite simply, a different form of humor than disparagement; to lump all puns together as "simple", or "complex", or "painful" or any one thing would be foolish.

But then, I am biased; Shakespeare was extraordinarily fond of puns, and gave them to characters from kings to fools...

Possibly laughter is how our brain reconciles and eliminates cognitive dissonance, which would explain a great deal of Samuel Clemens' beliefs about it. Also why people who believe stupid things tend not the have a sense of humor about them.
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Are you using "cognitive dissonance" colloquially? Certainly, Festinger's term would have to be stretched almost to the breaking point to fit your first sentence here. Or, of course, you could be refering to a use I have not seen in the literature.

Also...once more, is this your personal experience about "people who believe stupid things" and a lack of sense of humor? Or could you point me to a source? My own personal experience offers many counter-examples, but I am always willing to admit I am wrong in the face of evidence. It just seems that your statement is more parsimoniously explained by simply seeing that it is you who define both "people who believe stupid things" and "people with no sense of humor". Again, unless you can show me a study; I know that there have been studies of intelligence and humor, but I am not aware that any have found what you say.
 
Wrath of the Swarm said:
I can see an argument defending the quality and value of puns, but it seems clear they're among the simplest forms of humor.
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Hmmm....this is a very interesting statement, now that I think on it a bit. Which is simpler, a pun, or a guy slipping on a banana peel? (The latter as, arguably, the distillation of disparagement humor and laughing at another's pain)

What makes a put-down (and I do appreciate a good put-down) more sophisticated than a pun? Or are you speaking of the quality of the disparagement, rather than its function?

I rather like the question...
 
Not quality in terms of value or worth, no. But I can't shake the feeling that the aspect of puns that make them funny is a very basic and fundamental one.

We have some reason to believe that humor is a very "primitive" function of the brain, as serious brain injuries that negatively impact higher functions are known to frequently leave the "sense of humor" unaffected.

Perhaps puns are extremely simple examples of the type of cognitive contradiction or conflict that induces humor? (Not in the degree of thought put into them, but in their mechanism of action.)

Asimov went through great lengths to write a short story involving a criminal who stole a time machine and went into the future until the penalty for his crime expired. He explained the arguments from both the defense and the prosecution, and had the judge return the following verdict:

"A niche in time saves Stein."

Very, very clever lead-up, but the pun itself is a transposition that leads to a coherent sentence. It's basic, simple even, although the framework necessary to understand it was quite complex.
 
Wrath of the Swarm said:
Not quality in terms of value or worth, no. But I can't shake the feeling that the aspect of puns that make them funny is a very basic and fundamental one.
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Hmmm....why would something basic and fundamental to our nature be something that you find "highly unpleasant", and yet is also something we tend to seek out? (just thinking out loud, not trying to make a point)

We have some reason to believe that humor is a very "primitive" function of the brain, as serious brain injuries that negatively impact higher functions are known to frequently leave the "sense of humor" unaffected.
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any sources on this? (for the record, I am not trying to hoyt you to death with this; it honestly is an area of interest, so if you have sources, I am interested in seeing them)

Perhaps puns are extremely simple examples of the type of cognitive contradiction or conflict that induces humor? (Not in the degree of thought put into them, but in their mechanism of action.)
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A reasonable hypothesis. Makes me wonder if there might not be two completely different humour mechanisms, for the pun/cognitive conflict type and for the disparagement/social dominance type...or perhaps if two mechanisms piggyback some of the brain hardware....I gotta get back into that literature, that's what I gotta do...
 
Sources? No, not that I can remember. I have seen it - and in discussions about people who have suffered serious brain injury, I've heard it mentioned that humor didn't change although cognitive capacity did.

I'll go take a look around, see what I can find.

And then there's tickling, which many people perceive as highly unpleasant, yet makes us laugh.

Peculiar, no?
 
Wrath of the Swarm said:
And then there's tickling, which many people perceive as highly unpleasant, yet makes us laugh.

Peculiar, no?
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I've seen some neat evolutionary biology explanations for tickling...but I don't remember enough to speak on it without checking first.

Yeah, the difference between what we label as unpleasant and what we approach or avoid is an interesting problem (why do we feel the need to stick the tongue into the tooth-socket after losing a tooth?); it is the reason, for example, that reinforcement is defined by its consequences rather than by some feeling of pleasantness or some such. When we choose to ignore the specific scientific vocabulary that a given research area has developed, it can easily lead to misunderstandings. In this case, for instance...if we colloquially link laughter and pleasantness, and link pleasantness with reward or reinforcement (again, colloquially), then an aversive event that makes us laugh is problematic. Only when we recognise that the subjective feelings and the behaviors are not necessarily causally linked (that is, the feelings causing the behaviors) can we start to make sense of the seeming conundrum.
 
Ossai said:
Humor = Tragedy + Time *

...

* I know this is a quote but I don't know from whom.
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"Comedy is tragedy plus time "
- Carol Burnett

"Humor is tragedy plus
time".
- Mark Twain (Maybe)

"Satire is tragedy plus time. "
- Lenny Bruce
 
Mercutio said:
Puns may be simple, of course, but they may also be extremely sophisticated.
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A wealthy Texan cattle rancher split his ranch in two and gave one of the parts to his two children, Jack and Bill. He named the part he gave to them "The Focus Ranch." Why?

Because it's where the sons raise meat.




(That is the most sophisticated pun I know of. Three homophones in a row.)
 
I have a beef with that pun... as the groan grows. It's real PUNishment.

For me, the sort of Humor that seems to be funniest when it has a component that is truth, or at least like enough to truth.

Usually when it exposes a new way to perceive something in an absurd way.

Generally, if you know it's false, or have had that perception already, the joke falls flat.

If it's some new way of seeing something that makes that absurd connection, it seems to become humor.

Something that has been loaded with absurd social pressure or emotion is usually the "funniest", for having a lot of different, but "forbidden" ways to think about it. It's why religion tends to be funny.

Now the following jokes may or may not be funny, yet, given the tragedy+time figure. These are examples of tragedy+time for most, but some found them funny shortly after the events. Forbidden, and emotionally loaded. They're 9/11/WTC based, so don't go if you think you'll be offended... because you almost certainly will be.
http://www.temple.edu/isllc/newfolk/bigapple/bigappleappa.html

Challenger/Columbia jokes...
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/88q3/16840.12.html

The really 'awful' thing is, people are more inclined to forgive a horrible disaster joke than a cheesy pun... what's with that Mr. Peabody?
 
Beleth said:


A wealthy Texan cattle rancher split his ranch in two and gave one of the parts to his two children, Jack and Bill. He named the part he gave to them "The Focus Ranch." Why?

Because it's where the sons raise meat.
Click to expand...

That took me a while to figure out, but it's a good one...

I'm pretty sure there's no pain in that joke, yet it made me laugh.
 
What makes something funny?

Black & white drawings with strong Christian messages.

This summer, I'm going to make a movie based on Dark Dungeons. Don't worry, it's a parody, but then again, I think the original is also a parody.
 
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