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Old 20th November 2011, 12:26 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Logically
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Old 20th November 2011, 01:18 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
I think YHWH will probably win a Zeus (the Oscar of the gods) for all the special effects....maybe also for the most bizarre and convoluted plot.

“Great job of scripting, producing and directing…. But I think acting in the show too was a mistake” said Homer

"Me thinks he loves the limelight a wee bit too much" said Zeus

"A little too vain" said Narcissus

"Way too many wars" said Mars

"Too many bloody genocides" said Kali

"He ripped my heart out" said Quetzalcoatl

"Crucifying his son was a good twist.... but I am not so sure about the resurrection...it belies the sacrifice" said Agamemnon
Resurrection? That's child's play compared to a good flaying said Xipe Totec
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Old 20th November 2011, 04:50 PM   #83
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Today i'm gonna watch some more football, take a nap, study for a psychology exam, go to a show, and get drunk, in accordance with God's plan.
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Old 20th November 2011, 07:08 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
If it's all decided, then there's obviously no such thing as free will, plus it ruins watching sports.
Which would make the Baby Jesus cry. (I'm guessing He bet Denver against the Jets ...)
Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.
Edge, here's a mental puzzle for you.

One model/explanation of God holds Him to be omnipresent. (Was, is, shall be). Any being who is beyond time as you and I experience it probably doesn't need to plan, since a plan is how you deal with the future.
God in the above model has no need to consider the future.

Perhaps your idea is that we more limited beings need a plan, which He doesn't. As a few above have noted, this leads pretty frequently into predestination: what's the point of predestination, beyond an excuse not to make a decision?

Your life is the record of the choices you make, and also about choices others make that influence you.
Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
Today i'm gonna watch some more football, take a nap, study for a psychology exam, go to a show, and get drunk, in accordance with God's plan.
I didn't get drunk, which given how the Cowboys played today is a win for me. Saw a show last night, and walked out at intermission.

I wonder what tomorrow will bring?
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Old 20th November 2011, 10:01 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Actually, God put the plans on a map but a bunch of dwarves who work in his landscaping department stole them and then kidnapped a little kid, all in a plot to become filthy rich. They even ripped off Napoleon, but Robin Hood stole all their loot.

It all had something to do with free will, if I recall.
It's pure evil! Mom! Dad! Don't touch it!
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Old 20th November 2011, 10:06 PM   #86
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Question First things first

Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done.
Edge, it's not been established that God is real. Take care of that first, then we can talk about His power. If no one can establish the existence of God, a conversation about His powers is futile. Why is this so hard to understand?
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Old 21st November 2011, 12:27 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
And screw drivers..... not the drinks that is....
Not till Sonic Drive-in starts listing vodka and orange juice on their menu.
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Old 21st November 2011, 01:07 AM   #88
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i would belief you if there was any shred of evidence supporting the existense of any god.
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Old 21st November 2011, 04:09 AM   #89
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God's plans are as effective as the the plans of Thor and the nine billion other non-existent gods that people have believed in. God does not exist, therefore his plans do not exist. QED.
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Old 21st November 2011, 07:05 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done.
How do you know this?

Quote:
God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.
When did he tell us this?
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Old 21st November 2011, 04:27 PM   #91
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edge, everytime your so-called god of the bible has done anything, not once has it been shown that he knows anything about the furture, let along wjat humans will do.

He is worthless, end of story.


If you need a god, get a good one next time. There is nothing in the bible that says he is the only one.

Paul

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Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 21st November 2011, 05:32 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Lamuella View Post
How do you know this?

When did he tell us this?
I've been to the other side.

When did he tell us? Since the beginning of history B.C. to 2000 or more A.D.
People even today are experiencing God, and Jesus.

Darth says;
Quote:
Edge, here's a mental puzzle for you.

One model/explanation of God holds Him to be omnipresent. (Was, is, shall be). Any being who is beyond time as you and I experience it probably doesn't need to plan, since a plan is how you deal with the future.
God in the above model has no need to consider the future.

Perhaps your idea is that we more limited beings need a plan, which He doesn't. As a few above have noted, this leads pretty frequently into predestination: what's the point of predestination, beyond an excuse not to make a decision?

Your life is the record of the choices you make, and also about choices others make that influence you.
He has no need for a plan for himself, the plan is for us.
The plan is to unveil itsself so that in such a way we may recognize it is his plan through prophesies.
Only prophets are truly predestined, they have no choice but to do Gods will.
We still have a choice, and in that way most of us have freewill at the moment, and the predestination is to execute the plan of salvation for us all.
Yes there will be a record of your life that also is about choices we all make, freewill.

If one is a prophet then you are in agreement with God and made that choice using freewill to further his ultimate plan of grace and salvation.
They usually have prophesies to confirm a part of the plan that is a small part of proof that bolsters faith.
To be omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), ...
means to be everywhere or where you want to be, covering all bases, so all can be saved.
Who else could do this but God as discribed in the bible?

Mr. Scott says:
Quote:
Edge, it's not been established that God is real.
To some it has to some it hasn't been established.
Because it hasn't to you, you need what, DNA?
Sorry no can do.

Paul says:
Quote:
edge, everytime your so-called god of the bible has done anything, not once has it been shown that he knows anything about the furture, let along wjat humans will do.

He is worthless, end of story.


If you need a god, get a good one next time. There is nothing in the bible that says he is the only one.

Paul
OHHHKay.


Multivac, what are those other gods plans?
You're just whistling out your rear.

Paul put that bottle down.

Not only is He fully acquainted with all of the present facts, He also prophesied the future, including the death of His Son (Isa.. 53).
Quote:
Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed what he has heard from us?[a]
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected[b] by men;
a man of sorrows,[c] and acquainted with[d] grief;[e]
and as one from whom men hide their faces[f]
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
Read the rest of that above:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...53&version=ESV
Don't be afraid!

The prophesies of God did not stop with the sacrifice of Christ on the cross; He has also foretold the return of Christ at the end of this age when death will be finally overcome.
Quote:
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:51-57 (NIV)
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Old 21st November 2011, 05:41 PM   #93
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So, essentially, god is like Baldrick from Blackadder wth a cunning plan that never quite works out the way he planned...

Last edited by Parsman; 21st November 2011 at 05:41 PM. Reason: for spelling
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Old 21st November 2011, 05:47 PM   #94
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No gods, no plans.
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Old 21st November 2011, 06:22 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
I've been to the other side. He has no need for a plan for himself, the plan is for us.
Funny how you know so much about something that isn't.

Just make it up as you go along, all of you guys do.



Paul

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Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 21st November 2011, 06:46 PM   #96
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He's a real Nowhere Man
Living in His nowhere land
Making all His nowhere plans
For nobody
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Old 21st November 2011, 08:33 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
To some it has to some it hasn't been established [that God is real].
Because it hasn't to you, you need what, DNA?
Sorry no can do.
OK, I'll bite. How has it been established to you that God is real?

If you have any evidence at all that God is real, share it with us, will you?

Maybe we can decode the genome of the blood spots on the shroud of Turin. No can do?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 01:40 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Boy, this is enlightening....tossing bible quotes at each other. There just ain't enough of these:
You are going to love my contribution then.

Originally Posted by edge View Post
If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad.
Here, you are touching on that biblical paradox that must never be mentioned: Is God love or does God put people in hell (the ULTIMATE act of hatred)?

If you say, "both" then you do not have the same definition of love given in 1 Corinthians 13. There may be some passages in the bible that support your claim (surprise surprise) but 2 Corinthians 6:14-16 isn't one of them:
[14]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
[15]And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
[16]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?

Last edited by psionl0; 22nd November 2011 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 22nd November 2011, 02:52 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
When did he tell us? Since the beginning of history B.C. to 2000 or more A.D.
People even today are experiencing God, and Jesus.
I have never received a memo, letter, postcard, email, fax or text from god or any of his assistants.


Originally Posted by edge View Post
Who else could do this but God as discribed in the bible?
The bible is a work of fiction written by bronze-age goat herders. Unfortunately, due to transcription errors, the first page of the bible is missing which is a shame as the authors dedicate the book to their wives and children who put up with them while they wrote it. The editor is also mentioned.


Originally Posted by edge View Post
Multivac, what are those other gods plans?
Thor was too busy playing with his hammer to bother writing a plan.

Originally Posted by edge View Post
You're just whistling out your rear.
Sorry, but I can't whistle at all, not even out of my rear. Gas sometimes escapes from my rear but nobody has ever referred to it as whistling.



Originally Posted by edge View Post
The prophesies of God did not stop with the sacrifice of Christ on the cross; He has also foretold the return of Christ at the end of this age when death will be finally overcome.
And, 2000 years later, this still hasn't happened. Why? Wasn't JC supposed to return within the lifetime of his disciples?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 03:07 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
I've been to the other side.

When did he tell us? Since the beginning of history B.C. to 2000 or more A.D.
People even today are experiencing God, and Jesus.
so basically you're saying that I have to take your word for it, or their word for it.

I'm going to need a bit more than that. Something a bit more independently verifiable.
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Old 22nd November 2011, 06:48 AM   #101
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Edge, why did it take your so-called god so long to show up, man in his present form has been around for tens of thousands of years.

Paul

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Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 22nd November 2011, 07:30 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You are going to love my contribution then.

Here, you are touching on that biblical paradox that must never be mentioned: Is God love or does God put people in hell (the ULTIMATE act of hatred)?

If you say, "both" then you do not have the same definition of love given in 1 Corinthians 13. There may be some passages in the bible that support your claim (surprise surprise) but 2 Corinthians 6:14-16 isn't one of them:
[14]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
[15]And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
[16]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
Where's your sorce?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 07:35 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Where's your sorce?
Yes edge, where is your source, the bible does not count here, so please give us a real source. And trying to be fancy with words means nothing too.

Paul

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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 22nd November 2011, 07:52 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Multivac View Post
I have never received a memo, letter, postcard, email, fax or text from god or any of his assistants.
The bible is a work of fiction written by bronze-age goat herders. Unfortunately, due to transcription errors, the first page of the bible is missing which is a shame as the authors dedicate the book to their wives and children who put up with them while they wrote it. The editor is also mentioned.
Thor was too busy playing with his hammer to bother writing a plan.
Sorry, but I can't whistle at all, not even out of my rear. Gas sometimes escapes from my rear but nobody has ever referred to it as whistling.
And, 2000 years later, this still hasn't happened. Why? Wasn't JC supposed to return within the lifetime of his disciples?
In yellow, totally wrong.
Why is it, that skeptics always use this?
You need to study your history, ask Piggy what they knew back then and you'll see is, they were somewhat as sophisticated as we are today, look at what they built.
Are there goat herders today? Are they stupid? No education?
Come on!
These others have no plan then? Empty are they?

My bolding:
He did come back, according to what is written and that was witnessed by many people.
He basically in the physical showed us what would happen after death, and when he said, "you will see me coming back in the clouds," this is what is reported by many people who have died and come back to life to re-report it to us as a conformation.

None of this was in place till the father accomplished the plan that Jesus was able to give us. The resurrection of humans was not in place till after the assentation of Christ.

Now if you are talking about a physical return that also was promised.
All of us will see what is there, on the other side. That is also part of the plan.
It's to be a surprise.
I'm going to add this link to because I don't have much time but read this and all of that thread as I have to go to class.

I understand because knowing the real truth is a scary process.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...72#post7779672

Last edited by edge; 22nd November 2011 at 07:58 AM. Reason: added for time
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Old 22nd November 2011, 08:00 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Paulhoff View Post
Yes edge, where is your source, the bible does not count here, so please give us a real source. And trying to be fancy with words means nothing too.

Paul

I need to know where he is coming from and in here it's the rules... when you copy and paste?
So How you doing Paul?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 08:01 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
I've been to the other side.
Lot's of this going around. No, you haven't. You imagine you have, but no.
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Old 22nd November 2011, 09:40 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Where's your sorce?
You don't recognize the King James Bible?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 09:42 AM   #108
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"God's Plan" animation

Sometimes, animations can purify and expose the truth of the matter. Here's a good portrayal of "God's Plan" by DarkMatter2525:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 22nd November 2011, 09:56 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Mr. Scott View Post
Sometimes, animations can purify and expose the truth of the matter. Here's a good portrayal of "God's Plan" by DarkMatter2525:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
That video pretty much wraps it all up.

The god of the bible needs to hold up a mirror to itself.

Paul

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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 22nd November 2011, 11:51 AM   #110
Filippo Lippi
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
You need to study your history, ask Piggy what they knew back then and you'll see is, they were somewhat as sophisticated as we are today, look at what they built.
Tell it to this bloke

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=212889

You do know what happens to folk who tell fibs, don't you?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 11:59 AM   #111
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I was going to plan a trip for winter break, but now i don't have to bother, knowing GOd's got it all planned out for me. I wonder if he'll print me out an itinerary?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 12:37 PM   #112
tsig
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Lot's of this going around. No, you haven't. You imagine you have, but no.
We seem to be having a regular zombie jamboree.
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Old 22nd November 2011, 12:44 PM   #113
tsig
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
I was going to plan a trip for winter break, but now i don't have to bother, knowing GOd's got it all planned out for me. I wonder if he'll print me out an itinerary?
Sure:

Die in sin

Go to Hell, Go Directly to hell, Do Not Pass god or collect any reward.

(received on my Tap-a-God)
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Old 22nd November 2011, 02:01 PM   #114
gabeygoat
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Sure:

Die in sin

Go to Hell, Go Directly to hell, Do Not Pass god or collect any reward.

(received on my Tap-a-God)

Oh! is a tap-a-god like a celestial telegraph?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 02:47 PM   #115
tsig
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
Oh! is a tap-a-god like a celestial telegraph?
It's that still, soft voice in the night that says "Love, it's your turn to feed the baby".
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Old 22nd November 2011, 02:55 PM   #116
dafydd
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
I need to know where he is coming from and in here it's the rules... when you copy and paste?
So How you doing Paul?
Can you ask god to tell you what I will be doing next week?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 04:04 PM   #117
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I've verified for myself that the Divine, whatever it is, is real. As for the plans of the Divine, I think they are difficult for us to wrap our heads around because the Divine uses both causality and retro-causality to bring itself about in both the past and the future (alpha and omega). The plan of the Divine is to be.
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"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
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Old 22nd November 2011, 04:53 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
I've verified for myself that the Divine, whatever it is, is real. As for the plans of the Divine, I think they are difficult for us to wrap our heads around because the Divine uses both causality and retro-causality to bring itself about in both the past and the future (alpha and omega). The plan of the Divine is to be.
The plans of the Divine are difficult for us to wrap our heads around.
The plan of the Divine is to be

They're difficult to understand but you've got it figured out?

Does god send you an email, have his thoughts bubble up into your brain or appear in person?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 05:00 PM   #119
dafydd
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Where's your sorce?
What is a 'sorce'?
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Old 22nd November 2011, 08:12 PM   #120
JudeBrando
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Originally Posted by Paulhoff View Post
edge, everytime your so-called god of the bible has done anything, not once has it been shown that he knows anything about the furture, let along wjat humans will do.

He is worthless, end of story.


If you need a god, get a good one next time. There is nothing in the bible that says he is the only one.

Paul


"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god."


"I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things."


"For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other. I did not speak in secret, in a land of darkness; I did not say to the offspring of Jacob, 'Seek me in vain.' I the LORD speak the truth; I declare what is right. "Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, you survivors of the nations! They have no knowledge who carry about their wooden idols, and keep on praying to a god that cannot save. Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other."


"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

Last edited by JudeBrando; 22nd November 2011 at 08:18 PM.
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