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Tags Amanda Knox , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 30th November 2011, 09:57 AM   #121
Diocletus
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
This one intrigues me a lot. Miss Stefanoni BSc (not a Doctor) knew perfectly well that DNA material would degrade if stored in a plastic container. But she deliberately put that bra clasp in a plastic container. One might speculate as to why.

Then when she was challenged, she announced, apparently, that this was a certified container, from the USA, no less. She didn't say what it was certified for. It could have been certified watertight, or airtight, or to be 5ml in volume, or to be made of a certain grade of polypropylene. One thing it certainly was not, was certified to be suitable for storage of forensic DNA samples. But the mention of "the USA" was clearly intended to imply it was in some way superior to mere European requirements. (Quite funny in the light of the guilter criticism of Conti and Vecchiotti for citing some US references in their report.)

But there is no such thing as a plastic container suitable for storage of DNA for this purpose. Not in Italy, not in the USA, not anywhere. Earlier in the thread I linked to and quoted from current US federal guidelines for correct collection and storage of such material, and they were absolutely clear about using paper, not plastic, and why.
It appears that she used a centrifuge tube to store the bra clasp:

According to the description, centrifuge tubes "are ideal for centrifugation as well as storage of critical laboratory reagents including culture media, buffers and antibodies."

In other words, you use them to store liquids. I'm sure that Stephanoni had a bunch of these lying around her lab, but alas, apparently no envelopes for storage of solid-state and fungible evidence.
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Old 30th November 2011, 10:44 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Diocletus View Post
It appears that she used a centrifuge tube to store the bra clasp:

According to the description, centrifuge tubes "are ideal for centrifugation as well as storage of critical laboratory reagents including culture media, buffers and antibodies."

In other words, you use them to store liquids. I'm sure that Stephanoni had a bunch of these lying around her lab, but alas, apparently no envelopes for storage of solid-state and fungible evidence.

I think I saw a picture of the tube, and it was indeed a fairly standard centrifuge tube. Commonly used for all sorts of things, a nuisance because they won't stand up on their own, and being plastic they are very bad for collecting whole blood (it then clots and sticks to the plastic, and thus haemolyses - bane of my life that I can't get this through to some people).

I have to ask, what on earth did she mean by certified? There is no possible way on earth any certification possessed by these common laboratory consumables makes them suitable for storing forensic samples for DNA analysis.

She was trying to pull the wool over the court's eyes, trusting that none of the defence lawyers would enquire into what sort of certification she was talking about. Did they even get to cross-examine her on this point?

Rolfe.
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Last edited by Rolfe; 30th November 2011 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 30th November 2011, 01:01 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Commonly used for all sorts of things, a nuisance because they won't stand up on their own,
Perfect receptacle for forensic evidence in this case then
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Old 30th November 2011, 02:22 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
Perfect receptacle for forensic evidence in this case then



Rolfe.
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Old 30th November 2011, 03:50 PM   #125
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Why is it that PGP can come up with the most detailed theories of how the kids arranged to murder Meredith but they neglect to fit them into the known time lines.

From the beginning, Patrick needed to account for his time from 8 to 10 and that's where the Swiss professor was needed, but the murder morphed until 11:30 to fit the star witnesses. Now the PGP are claiming a murder at the same time Curatolo "saw" them and hours before the ear witnesses.

OT - anybody ever hear of "Operation Lockport"? Is my Google broken?
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Old 30th November 2011, 07:31 PM   #126
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pillowcase stain

After some consideration, I have decided that the stain on Meredith's pillowcase is not semen; it is turnip juice.
[/sarcasm]
The pro-guilt community claims in effect that luminol-positive stains are blood, because the alternatives are unrealistic. This is bad forensic chemistry, but putting that aside for a moment, let us consider the pillowcase stain that was revealed by a crimescope. Here the pro-guilt community correctly but inconsistently points out that the crimescope is a preliminary test and that other substances could also be responsible.
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Old 1st December 2011, 02:39 AM   #127
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Hiya, I have not posted for a long time, I have been reading nearly every day, except when the blogg was taken down.
Just like the rest of you, except for a few, that Amanda is back home in Seattle good news.
I have a very funny feeling that the "Hellmanns report" has been done, and he is, with holding the report back, to give Amanda and Raffaele a chance to adjust to being free.
After all the press are still reporting her every movement.
Its has got to a stage that the press are using the long lens. to get pictures of her.
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Old 1st December 2011, 03:54 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by halides1 View Post
After some consideration, I have decided that the stain on Meredith's pillowcase is not semen; it is turnip juice.
[/sarcasm]
The pro-guilt community claims in effect that luminol-positive stains are blood, because the alternatives are unrealistic. This is bad forensic chemistry, but putting that aside for a moment, let us consider the pillowcase stain that was revealed by a crimescope. Here the pro-guilt community correctly but inconsistently points out that the crimescope is a preliminary test and that other substances could also be responsible.
What I find most curious about that argument being made is that I simply cannot come up with a single reason, rational or otherwise, for someone who thinks Amanda and Raffaele guilty not to want that stain tested. There's no downside whatsoever, especially to those like the Kercher family who still think others might be involved. That is the single strangest evidential decision made by the prosecution in this case, and that's saying a lot! At the site of a rape-murder, the stain that looks very much like semen and was identified as such by a forensic expert with a crimescope and was found under the body of the victim somehow goes untested and it's never insisted upon by the family's lawyer!

Anyone who thinks that there might have been others outside Rudy Guede involved, whether they are Raffaele and Amanda or not, ought to be demanding that stain be tested. If they are not, I cannot help but wonder why...
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Old 1st December 2011, 06:35 AM   #129
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If the entire prosecution team gang rapped Meredith before ritualistically slicing her throat and letting her bleed to death, they would not want the stain tested that could point back at themselves. Is that rational or otherwise enough for you?
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A text message was found to have been sent at 8:35PM of November 1st by KNOX's number to that of her co-defendant Patrick, in which she wrote "Ci vediamo dopo" ["See you later" or lit: "We'll see each other after"] thus confirming that in the following hours KNOX would find herself with Patrick in the apartment where the victim was. -- Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini (Order for arrests)
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Old 1st December 2011, 07:30 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Kaosium View Post
What I find most curious about that argument being made is that I simply cannot come up with a single reason, rational or otherwise, for someone who thinks Amanda and Raffaele guilty not to want that stain tested. There's no downside whatsoever, especially to those like the Kercher family who still think others might be involved. That is the single strangest evidential decision made by the prosecution in this case, and that's saying a lot! At the site of a rape-murder, the stain that looks very much like semen and was identified as such by a forensic expert with a crimescope and was found under the body of the victim somehow goes untested and it's never insisted upon by the family's lawyer!

Anyone who thinks that there might have been others outside Rudy Guede involved, whether they are Raffaele and Amanda or not, ought to be demanding that stain be tested. If they are not, I cannot help but wonder why...
Yes and it is odd that the PGP didn't want Mignini removed whether or not he was guilty of all the transgressions Preston et al. accused him of doing.

Also, their lack of seeing any problems with the handling of the case from the very first. How anyone could look at the collection videos, read about the lost evidence (Meredith's blood alcohol, computers, bloody towels, bra clasp etc.), the lack of witnesses discovered by the police rather than a local paper or TV station etc. isn't severely troubled by the investigation?

Reading elsewhere I'm struck by the rehashing of scenarios that just don't fit either the evidence, common sense, or the known time line. Now I'm reading that Rudy was invited to party with them so that they could set him up as the murderer without others complaining that there just is no evidence of that and that if that were the case they would have been pointing the finger at him from at least day two.

They are also speculating again that the kids were planning to kill her the day before because Amanda texted her. I'm curious how they were going to find Rudy that night or perhaps they had another stooge in mind.

These theories have Amanda organizing the murder two or three days after going to concert with Meredith and meeting Raffaele.

Is it possible that the kids were in some way involved? I can't rule it completely out but the theories don't move me in that direction at all.

BTW I turned my phone off yesterday, hope no one was murdered in the hood.
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Old 1st December 2011, 07:42 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
Why is it that PGP can come up with the most detailed theories of how the kids arranged to murder Meredith but they neglect to fit them into the known time lines.

From the beginning, Patrick needed to account for his time from 8 to 10 and that's where the Swiss professor was needed, but the murder morphed until 11:30 to fit the star witnesses. Now the PGP are claiming a murder at the same time Curatolo "saw" them and hours before the ear witnesses.

OT - anybody ever hear of "Operation Lockport"? Is my Google broken?
I haven't heard of Operation Lockport, but if it's a murder investigation that's been going on for 14 years, then I would say it's not a very successful one. After all, the Perugian cops can wrap up murder investigations in a matter of just days.
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Old 1st December 2011, 12:52 PM   #132
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The case was closed in days. But it was almost six weeks later when they wrapped up the mop.
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A text message was found to have been sent at 8:35PM of November 1st by KNOX's number to that of her co-defendant Patrick, in which she wrote "Ci vediamo dopo" ["See you later" or lit: "We'll see each other after"] thus confirming that in the following hours KNOX would find herself with Patrick in the apartment where the victim was. -- Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini (Order for arrests)
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Old 1st December 2011, 01:00 PM   #133
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Interesting and somewhat relevant NYT article:

The Certainty of Memory Has Its Day in Court
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Old 1st December 2011, 01:22 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Dan O. View Post
If the entire prosecution team gang rapped Meredith before ritualistically slicing her throat and letting her bleed to death, they would not want the stain tested that could point back at themselves. Is that rational or otherwise enough for you?
For the prosecution certainly, but would they be telling their fans down the Rabbit Hole that or the family's lawyer? Why would those people not want the test done and make excuses for it not being done, especially at this stage in the case?
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Old 1st December 2011, 02:24 PM   #135
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Hugo's opinion.

Quote:
No, that stain is nothing to do with Rudy Guede or the case in general. None of our business.The police do this stuff so you don't have to. Ignore it.

I'm not sure how one squares "the police do this stuff so you don't have to" with obsessive speculation about every minute detail of the evidence, to be honest.

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Old 1st December 2011, 02:45 PM   #136
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I read this by a man named Peter Quennell who owns the guilt blog Truejustice.org. He at one point said this about Hellmann:

"And Judge Hellman has a reputation similar to Judge Massei’s for making sure all the bases are covered and for not arriving at trial or appeal outcomes based on a few outlying contradictory “facts” or a mere whim. He too has been given very little that is new."

However, now that the Hellman acquitted the little angels, this Peter Quennell thinks Hellman is a stalwart idiot! I am VERY confused.

I am wondering if maybe Pilot, who is the sole and very brave voice of guilt here has any comment on this discrepancy.
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Even if you hate the Knox case, you'll appreciate this example of confirmation bias. Taken down by the "impartial mods" because certain aviators kept clickiting clicking violation.
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Old 1st December 2011, 06:36 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Hugo's opinion.

Quote:
No, that stain is nothing to do with Rudy Guede or the case in general. None of our business.The police do this stuff so you don't have to. Ignore it.
I'm not sure how one squares "the police do this stuff so you don't have to" with obsessive speculation about every minute detail of the evidence, to be honest.

Rolfe.
Here are a few details posted at PMF I would like to see some discussion on:

Quote:
There was the flurry of text messages that Knox sent Meredith on 31 October 2007, trying to meet up with her. In the light of what Knox did to Meredith the following day, it seems that Knox had sinister intentions, especially when you bear in mind that Knox had ripped out all the pages in her diary for October. The only plausible explanation for doing this is that what she had written was highly incriminating.

Knox's and Sollecito's actions shortly before and after Meredith was murdered show that they had their wits about them. I'm not sure Knox and Sollecito were seriously messed up on drugs and alcohol. Jovana Popovic saw them at approximately 8.40pm and Antonio Curatolo last saw them in Pizza Grimana at around 11.00pm. Their testimonies don't indicate that Knox and Sollecito were completely out of it on drugs or alcohol. The decision to turn off their mobile phones and take two knives to the cottage was surely made when they were sober. They took Meredith's mobile phones at about midnight and went down a dark and deserted road beyond the city gates and threw them away in a place where it would be difficult to find them. They did this and locked Meredith’s door to delay the discovery of her body until they had finished removing their own incriminating traces from the crime scene. They knew that the best time of the day to clean up the cottage was the morning when there would be more light.
I am starting to see this October pages ripped out of her diary claim in the last few weeks. Is this information coming from Follain's book and is there any other confirmation anywhere that this is true?

The comment that one witness saw them at 8:40 and another at 11PM seems to give a big window of opportunity. However that second witness said they were hanging around there during that window of opportunity and also stated that they were there a while longer than 11PM, IIRC.
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Old 1st December 2011, 06:46 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Katody Matrass View Post
Interesting and somewhat relevant NYT article:

The Certainty of Memory Has Its Day in Court
There was a National Geographic special called Brain Games, the part was called Remember This. Very interesting with many similar points. It showed the problems with witness identification with a fake crime and an interview with 10 or 20 real witnesses to the fake crime, most of whom got it wrong, including in the lineup. Well worth watching, if you can find a link to it.
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Old 1st December 2011, 07:08 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
Very aware of that.
1) Doctor Stefanoni quoted the US Federal Bureau of Investigation.
2) Hellmann's selected academic experts quoted the Missouri State Highway Patrol

So, are you really arguing that you want us to accept that the US Federal Bureau of Investigation is nothing more than just another glorified Missouri State Highway Patrol ???

Poor J.Edgar would roll over in his grave reading your comparison, I fear.
Doctor Stefanoni?

No, she has NO post-graduate university qualifications - she's no more a "doctor" than Valentino Rossi, "The Doctor".

Which isn't to say that I don't have tremendous admiration for Rossi (the Greatest Of All Time), as opposed to my utter contempt for Stephony.
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Old 1st December 2011, 08:31 PM   #140
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dubious rumor

Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
I am starting to see this October pages ripped out of her diary claim in the last few weeks. Is this information coming from Follain's book and is there any other confirmation anywhere that this is true.
RoseMontague,

I have never heard anyone mention ripped pages except starting roughly a month ago. In the first place, I don't know of any independent source that corroborates this information; therefore, I think it is a dubious rumor. In the second place, it would not be incriminating if there were pages ripped out. Trying to draw conclusions about what one cannot see is hazardous. MOO.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 03:34 AM   #141
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On .org, a poster named Stilicho makes the following "argument" concerning Meredith's mobile phones and Guede's potential involvement in their theft/disposal:

Quote:
I really doubt that Guede stole the phones because, as the Groupies™ correctly state, he left evidence everywhere. But there was no blood or prints on the recovered phones and no blood or prints on Amanda's lamp. Guede left very obvious clues because he left immediately and didn't return.

It's plausible that he stole the contents of Meredith's handbag but nobody will ever know for certain. We only know he had his hands on that. We know in the same way that he didn't have his hands on the phones or the lamp.

Needless to say, this "argument" appears to be borne of a mixture of ignorance and confirmation bias. Here's why:

Firstly, if Guede had taken the two phones and subsequently dumped them in Sig.ra Lana's garden (as I believe he did), then it's more than likely that he did so after cleaning blood from his hands. If so, then it's unlikely that any of Meredith's blood would have been found on the phones - especially since they had been lying on damp grass overnight prior to discovery the next morning.

Secondly, Guede's prints might well have been all over the phones when he threw them into the garden. But the phones were subsequently picked up and extensively handled by a number of people, including various members of Sig.ra Lana's family and various police officers. Incidentally, I would not seek to blame or censure the family/police for having handled the phones in this way: they were clearly not to know at that point that the phones were linked to a murder, and merely thought that they were abandoned phones that might (perhaps) be linked to the prank phone call to Sig.ra Lana the previous night. Therefore, by the time the murder was discovered, any probative fingerprint evidence on the phones had been effectively destroyed and obscured by the later prints from the family and the police. That's why the phones couldn't yield any useful prints.

So, in my view, it's laughably wrong to make a declarative statement such as this (my bolding):

Quote:
It's plausible that he stole the contents of Meredith's handbag but nobody will ever know for certain. We only know he had his hands on that. We know in the same way that he didn't have his hands on the phones or the lamp.

We absolutely do not "know" that Guede "didn't have his hands on the phones", for the reason I've outlined above. And regarding Knox's lamp, Stilicho is again making three observations based on confirmation bias. First, he's supposing that the lamp was placed in the room by whomever committed the murder (or "clean-up"). Second, he's supposing that the lamp was deliberately wiped of prints after the crime. And third, he's supposing that Guede wouldn't have engaged in any such clean-up (because he erroneously believes that the evidence "proves" that Guede left the scene immediately after the crime.

In fact, a perfectly plausible (and, in my view, probable) reason for the presence of Knox's lamp in Meredith's room is that Meredith herself borrowed it at some point - possibly in order to light her desk/mirror area without having to unplug her own lamp which she used at her bedside. The evidence suggests that the lamp was knocked over during a struggle. If the above is correct, then of course it's perfectly consistent with Guede being a lone assailant.

And, by the way, to set the record straight on another aspect of Meredith's phones: the Italian phone was turned off when it was found in Sig.ra Lana's garden the following day. It was found because it was laying in plain view in the middle of the lawn. Meredith's UK phone, on the other hand, was found switched on. It was laying hidden in the border of the garden, and was only found because an incoming call (almost certainly from Knox) caused the ringtone to alert Sig.ra Lana's family to its presence. This state of affairs also tends to lend credence to the idea that whoever killed Meredith (Guede) was trying to turn off both phones: he succeeded with the Italian phone, but failed in his attempt to turn off the UK phone (with whose operation he may well have been unfamiliar). This in turn tends to lend credence to the idea that the curious - and otherwise inexplicable - button presses on the UK phone at around 10pm were botched attempts by the murderer (Guede) to turn off the handset.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 03:50 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
There was a National Geographic special called Brain Games, the part was called Remember This. Very interesting with many similar points. It showed the problems with witness identification with a fake crime and an interview with 10 or 20 real witnesses to the fake crime, most of whom got it wrong, including in the lineup. Well worth watching, if you can find a link to it.

Yes, I agree. The programme aired here under the different series title "Test Your Brain". It was indeed very interesting and thought-provoking (as were the other episodes in the series). And open-minded psychologists and judiciary have become increasingly aware of the fact that eyewitness testimony can be extraordinarily incorrect and unreliable.

My father once served on an RAF Board of Inquiry into a fatal fast jet accident. He took statements from several people who had witnessed the entire crash (which happened over fields on the outskirts of a Dutch town), and various of them stated definitively that they had witnessed things such as parts coming off the aircraft before it hit the ground, or large flashes/bangs before the aircraft hit the ground, or even some sort of missile coming up from the ground to hit the aircraft. When the wreckage and flight data were examined, it could be conclusively determined that none of these things had happened, yet the witnesses earnestly believed that they had. The only accurate eyewitnesses turned out to be two 11-year-old Dutch girls on their way home from school, who stated that they had seen the aircraft flying low and level, then it had banked its wing, lost height, and the wing had hit the ground, causing the subsequent crash. This was in fact what had really happened: the crash was entirely due to pilot error (CFIT: controlled flight into terrain).

And that's one of the reasons why I think it's perfectly reasonable to discount - and in some instances dismiss - the testimony of various witnesses in the Kercher case, chiefly Capezzali, Monacchia, Curatolo and Quintavalle. I think that it's very possible that their testimony is, at best, a product of inaccurate memory that has been altered post-hoc by their knowledge of the crime. And, at worst, I think that some of them are willfully lying.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 04:27 AM   #143
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Where even brave souls hesitate to tread

Originally Posted by HumanityBlues View Post
I read this by a man named Peter Quennell who owns the guilt blog Truejustice.org. He at one point said this about Hellmann:

"And Judge Hellman has a reputation similar to Judge Massei’s for making sure all the bases are covered and for not arriving at trial or appeal outcomes based on a few outlying contradictory “facts” or a mere whim. He too has been given very little that is new."

However, now that the Hellman acquitted the little angels, this Peter Quennell thinks Hellman is a stalwart idiot! I am VERY confused.

I am wondering if maybe Pilot, who is the sole and very brave voice of guilt here has any comment on this discrepancy.
You only quoted the complimentary things PQ said at one point previous to the verdict.
You did not quote him about what he supposedly now thinks.
I honestly do not regularly read TJMK as part of my usual morning cyber circuit scan.
Therefore, I respectfully reserve comment at this point.

But I do appreciate the sole brave soul characterization.
Even though I suspect it may be tongue in cheek.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 07:11 AM   #144
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Depends on who is building the qualifications barricade

Originally Posted by Supernaut View Post
Doctor Stefanoni?

No, she has NO post-graduate university qualifications - she's no more a "doctor" than Valentino Rossi, "The Doctor".

Which isn't to say that I don't have tremendous admiration for Rossi (the Greatest Of All Time), as opposed to my utter contempt for Stephony.
You might want to do a few moments research into previously thoroughly discussed Italian law and protocol on the Doctor matter.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited to conform to rules of moderated threads.

Last edited by Loss Leader; 2nd December 2011 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 07:18 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by halides1 View Post
RoseMontague,

I have never heard anyone mention ripped pages except starting roughly a month ago. In the first place, I don't know of any independent source that corroborates this information; therefore, I think it is a dubious rumor. In the second place, it would not be incriminating if there were pages ripped out. Trying to draw conclusions about what one cannot see is hazardous. MOO.
I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time understanding the rules of this game.

If the "fact" you wish to use against Raffaele and Amanda came from a comment in an alternative newspaper's blog, one report in a tab or just created by repetition on a PG site, that is good hard evidence to discuss.

If the "fact" you wish to discuss is pro the kids, then it had better come from the Massei report or court documents.

Also, you are having another basic problem with procedure here. If the "evidence" can possibly be interpreted to point to their guilt then it is definite evidence of guilt. Don't believe me, read Massei.

The diary is a little like the phones. Turning them off made no sense. Leaving at the flat turned on could provide "proof" they were there if someone happened to call or text them. Of course the PGP would now be claiming that they didn't answer because they were off killing someone, which is what I was doing the other night when I turned off my phone. (Not really, I just didn't want to be disturbed and last night I left it in the kitchen so I wouldn't hear the damn alerts, guilty again.)
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Old 2nd December 2011, 07:31 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post

Therefore, I anxiously await reaction here to the Prosecutor winning his Appeal last Monday
Let's get something clear for our readers;

Migini didn't "win" his appeal, the charges of which he was orinally convicted weren't adjudicated on AT ALL,

Rather, the judges at the appeal simply washed their hands of the case by using a get-out in the form of a ruling about the jurisdiction of the original court.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 07:44 AM   #147
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Very harsh treatment of Knox by an author who claims to have interviewed Perugia jail Wardens and inmates:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/mai...anda_Knox.html
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Old 2nd December 2011, 07:46 AM   #148
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Question

Originally Posted by HumanityBlues View Post
I read this by a man named Peter Quennell who owns the guilt blog Truejustice.org. He at one point said this about Hellmann:

"And Judge Hellman has a reputation similar to Judge Massei’s for making sure all the bases are covered and for not arriving at trial or appeal outcomes based on a few outlying contradictory “facts” or a mere whim. He too has been given very little that is new."

However, now that the Hellman acquitted the little angels, this Peter Quennell thinks Hellman is a stalwart idiot! I am VERY confused.

I am wondering if maybe Pilot, who is the sole and very brave voice of guilt here has any comment on this discrepancy.
Yes, I have been similarly confused and bewildered by many - who pre-acquittal assured all that they would "accept whatever verdict the high Appellate court deems fit" - who now see Hellmann and his lay judges as disastrously and catastrophically wrong.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 08:58 AM   #149
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Yes, lets do get something clear

Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Very harsh treatment of Knox by an author who claims to have interviewed Perugia jail Wardens and inmates:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/mai...anda_Knox.html
The author was not particularly harsh.

The author is again simply a messenger who does little than offer verbatim very uncomplimentary quotes from several people who have been with Knox 24/7 for years.

This thread recently expended much space discussing the difference between message carriers and message writers.
A plea was made then that applies to your argument.
The universal tendency here is to shoot messengers carrying messages the majority dislikes reading.
Your argument blaming the author does exactly that.

The majority here definitely will not like this message.
The Warden, Guard and Cellmate report exactly the personal habits and personality traits that guilt arguers have been soundly ridiculed here for previously exposing.
Interviewees are also identified by name which also says a lot to me about credibility.
Therefore, I await with bated breath the inevitable forthcoming spin about what the Warden, Guard, and Cellmate meant to say

BTW
1) Do skeptics universally use the derogatory terminology like:... an author claims to have interviewed.
Asking because I do not ever recall that same derogatory terminology, that infers doubt on credibility, ever cast upon any author presenting anything favorable to Knox here.

2) To continue the pedantic parsing traditions so popular here.

a) The author states that interviews were with Warden, Guard and Cellmate.
This is significant because Capanne prison probably has hundreds of inmates.
Knox only had 3 cellmates at any one time.
Quotes from Cellmates are therefore obviously much more credible.
Incidentally, Interviewees are also identified by name which also says a lot to me about credibility.

b) The Interviewees (Warden, Guard, and cellmate were from Capanne prison. Not Perugia prison.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 09:13 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
You might want to do a few moments research into previously thoroughly discussed Italian law and protocol on the Doctor matter.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited to conform to rules of moderated threads.
Don't affect superiority with me.

I'm quite aware that Italian phone directories are filled with thousands upon thousands of entries titled "dottore" - dentists, chiropodists etc'.

If they were to settle in any other Western country and continue their vocations there, they'd find themselves in a tad of trouble were they to continues calling themselves "doctor".
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Old 2nd December 2011, 09:24 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Very harsh treatment of Knox by an author who claims to have interviewed Perugia jail Wardens and inmates:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/mai...anda_Knox.html
I wanted to add that these writings and interviews will absolutely add to the incendiary theories about Knox as sociopath, as killer who got away with it, as psychotic, as actress and poser, falsely acquitted.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 09:25 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
You might want to do a few moments research into previously thoroughly discussed Italian law and protocol on the Doctor matter.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited to conform to rules of moderated threads.
And if you do so, you'll find out that Stephanoni is as much of a "doctor" as Dr. J.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 10:03 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Very harsh treatment of Knox by an author who claims to have interviewed Perugia jail Wardens and inmates:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/mai...anda_Knox.html
That is a real hit piece.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 10:14 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Diocletus View Post
It appears that she used a centrifuge tube to store the bra clasp:

According to the description, centrifuge tubes "are ideal for centrifugation as well as storage of critical laboratory reagents including culture media, buffers and antibodies."

In other words, you use them to store liquids. I'm sure that Stephanoni had a bunch of these lying around her lab, but alas, apparently no envelopes for storage of solid-state and fungible evidence.
It would have been fine to use such a container had she also included a dessicant with the clasp. But she was either too dumb to realise this or was deliberately destroying evidence (of her fraudulance).
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Old 2nd December 2011, 10:41 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
The author was not particularly harsh.

The author is again simply a messenger who does little than offer verbatim very uncomplimentary quotes from several people who have been with Knox 24/7 for years.

This thread recently expended much space discussing the difference between message carriers and message writers.
A plea was made then that applies to your argument.
The universal tendency here is to shoot messengers carrying messages the majority dislikes reading.
Your argument blaming the author does exactly that.

The majority here definitely will not like this message.
The Warden, Guard and Cellmate report exactly the personal habits and personality traits that guilt arguers have been soundly ridiculed here for previously exposing.
Interviewees are also identified by name which also says a lot to me about credibility.
Therefore, I await with bated breath the inevitable forthcoming spin about what the Warden, Guard, and Cellmate meant to say

BTW
1) Do skeptics universally use the derogatory terminology like:... an author claims to have interviewed.
Asking because I do not ever recall that same derogatory terminology, that infers doubt on credibility, ever cast upon any author presenting anything favorable to Knox here.

2) To continue the pedantic parsing traditions so popular here.

a) The author states that interviews were with Warden, Guard and Cellmate.
This is significant because Capanne prison probably has hundreds of inmates.
Knox only had 3 cellmates at any one time.
Quotes from Cellmates are therefore obviously much more credible.
Incidentally, Interviewees are also identified by name which also says a lot to me about credibility.

b) The Interviewees (Warden, Guard, and cellmate were from Capanne prison. Not Perugia prison.
Pmf exposed Amanda might have bad hygiene and that certain people don't like her? Big scoop there pilot. Must have earned a bunch of atta boys on the sick sites.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 11:18 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
That is a real hit piece.
Yes. And already, it is making droves of people feel vindicated and validated, because it is confirming their view of her as an ice-cold actress and sociopath.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 11:19 AM   #157
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Wrong (again)

Originally Posted by Diocletus View Post
And if you do so, you'll find out that Stephanoni is as much of a "doctor" as Dr. J.
And if you do so you will find out that:

Dr J earned his bachelor's degree in 1986
If Julius Irving was a citizen of Italy and had done his college work there, his comparable college degree there would have also earned him the right to be correctly called Doctor

again:

Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
You might want to do a few moments research into previously thoroughly discussed Italian law and protocol on the Doctor matter.
BTW
We are discussing Doctor Stefanoni (sp), are we not?

Doctor Patrizia Stefanoni from the Meredith Kercher murder, whom the Telegraph said this about:
"... is one of Italy's leading forensic experts and was part of the disaster investigations team sent to the scene of the 2004 Asian tsunami to identify victims.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rder-flat.html
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Old 2nd December 2011, 11:20 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Very harsh treatment of Knox by an author who claims to have interviewed Perugia jail Wardens and inmates:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/mai...anda_Knox.html
Wow Can't help but wonder why the freelance journo failed to sell this bomb of a piece to any tabloid. Let's look for an answer on her blog:

Quote:
Within a day of finding them I travelled to Perugia
The interviews took place in conversational Italian, fast, full of jokes, anecdotes, and sometimes above my head.
Sometimes? I say most of the time, considering the following:
Quote:
Those 6 months I’d lived in Florence and studied at the British Institute all those years ago came in very handy. And the lovely Sonia Tardetti acted as my translator filling in gaps with immense patience.
I bet there was a lot of filling in
A lot of heavy editing, too. The resulting text is no longer an interview, by any standards. Sure it's is very funny in it's contradictions and interesting in a way (mostly as a look inside an extremely biased mind).
I don't doubt there are grains of truth to be found there with some critical thinking, but let's leave it for another post..
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Old 2nd December 2011, 11:30 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Very harsh treatment of Knox by an author who claims to have interviewed Perugia jail Wardens and inmates:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/mai...anda_Knox.html
I thought it must be satire at first.

But no - I guess Ms Feinstein's chops as the renowned journo she is actually blagged her these interviews, no pecuniary reward to the interviewees required.

How gauche I must be that I'd never heard of her before.

Very swish, expensive-looking personal website Ms. Feinstein has there.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 11:58 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Very harsh treatment of Knox by an author who claims to have interviewed Perugia jail Wardens and inmates:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/mai...anda_Knox.html
As far as I can see there no quotes of what these people said except inside what should be quoted. For example: But in the cell she carried on eating meat. So eventually we started teasing her: "So you're vegetarian are you? " For her it was all a strategy.

Now if this were published by some real paper, even the Daily Mail, I'd think a little more of it.

She claims to have interviewed a cellmate and a warden - she mentions a guard in the intro but then calls this person The Warden in the body of the article. Why do I say claims? Because, she is nothing but a blogger. She is no more reputable than MissRepresented.

One must ask oneself how did this person get these "exclusive interviews" Did she pay for them? How did she locate these people?

It is very hard to believe that she could compete with the entire tab industries in Italy and England and land these exclusive stories.

I would suggest to all, a quick tour of her site, noting the paucity of articles and the lack of real publications printing what she has.

Perhaps, the PGP people can find a comment on a blog that says she didn't bathe while in college and they can retell the story a thousand times.

Did Massei say she didn't shower regularly?
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