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Tags pareidolia , shroud of turin

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Old 14th March 2012, 02:47 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
The cut and paste job does give the show away, doesn't it.
Still, Jabba=DOC?
Interesting, if so.
They appear to follow the same M.O.
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Old 14th March 2012, 03:16 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
They appear to follow the same M.O.
However the shroud is mainly considered a Catholic artifact and DOC is from a different sect.
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Old 14th March 2012, 06:11 AM   #203
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Even if 2000 yrs old

Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
...Paladin,
- Before I do that, I will try to provide some of the evidence to which I referred back in #163.
Paladin,
- I'm going to have to give you the last word (for now!) on this particular sub-topic. For the moment, I need to restrict my attention to the carbon dating sub-topic.
- Thanks.
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Old 14th March 2012, 06:16 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
However the shroud is mainly considered a Catholic artifact and DOC is from a different sect.
I'm not so sure. DOC has regurlarly referenced the RCC in the "evidence" thread and he won't tell when asked. Maybe they're cousins.
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Poe's Law!!! im christian if we came from apes how come were not hairy and have a big mouth and did we end up looking like we do know and besides there isnt any serious proof of apes they showd a video saying an ape was wondering around in the forest that thing looked exactly like a costume that i had saw at a store know one ever cought an ape (spelling/punctuation by original author)
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Old 14th March 2012, 06:27 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
(Just to remind viewers that I'm currently trying to answer Paladin's question about even if we could show that the Shroud was 2000 years old, why would we logically think that it had to be that of Jesus.)
Glad to see that, because I have asked this question, in vain, in several other similar debates.

Quote:
- But anyway, for the moment it is my understanding (and it makes sense) that the crown of thorns was not just atypical -- it was unique.
However, the evidence of a crown of thorns in the shroud is virtually non-existent. There is a faint shadow that could be anything, and indeed there is no reason to assume a crown of thorn would leave any traces.

Quote:
The spear in the side was not unique -- apparently, that was used to make sure the victim was dead. But from what I've read, most of the time it wasn't necessary -- the Romans usually left the body on the cross for the carrion to eat. In this case, so as not to agitate the Jewish leaders, they wanted to get him down before the Sabbath.
So this could be any body

Quote:
No-broken-bones was supposedly atypical because in order to breathe the victim had to keep lifting himself up, and the Romans would typically break the victims' legs in order to speed things up. And again, the Bible agrees with the no-broken-bones scenario.
How can you infer from even much better markings on a shroud that the body had no broken bones? It is normal to place a dead body in a natural position on burial. Not even a photograph would necessarily reveal broken bones.

Quote:
- The Shroud is very fancy -- not something that most crucifixion victims would receive -- but, it was a fabric and weave available in Jerusalem during the first century CE.
You have no idea of this.

Quote:
- And finally, the Shroud is essentially the only example of such image formation, and it would make for quite a coincident if this one example just happened to fit perfectly with the Biblical description of Jesus' crucifixion.
Premises fail for this conclusion. And we have no idea whether this is the only example. Only that it is (probably) the only surviving one. Usually, objects preserved over such long time are quite representative, because the chance for any individual object to be preserved is small. (So if one survives there was probably many from the start).

Hans
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Old 14th March 2012, 06:30 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by realpaladin View Post
Jabba... I have a lot of patience (not to mention nifty tools that remind me if I have not received an answer on various fora for a while)... so please do take your time but do not think that I have forgotten our Q&A.

The reason I am tenacious about it is because the whole forensics thing is applicable to most religious artefacts.

A lot of them are 'taken for granted' as being 'the thing' because they were introduced and 'ratified' way before methodological/forensical thinking was in place.

So, please do research the answers.
Paladin,
- Sorry. I hadn't read your message above before I posted my last message (#203)... Now what do I do???
- I'll get back to you...
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Old 14th March 2012, 06:46 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Paladin,
- Sorry. I hadn't read your message above before I posted my last message (#203)... Now what do I do???
- I'll get back to you...
Paladin,
- OK. You win. Hans just joined your team...
- I'll try to answer your questions/comments one at a time.
- I'll be back.
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Old 14th March 2012, 07:00 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Jabba
(Just to remind viewers that I'm currently trying to answer Paladin's question about even if we could show that the Shroud was 2000 years old, why would we logically think that it had to be that of Jesus.)

Paladin,

- I don't know anything about what you do (so, I really shouldn't say a whole lot about it), but my best guess is that the situations with which you're involved are not especially analogous to the Shroud issue.
Originally Posted by realpaladin View Post
What makes you say that? You know more about me and from a direct source than that you know about the situation of the shroud...
Paladin,
- I don't think that's true -- in reality, I don't know you from Adam...
- I do like your style, and you seem pretty knowledgeable about things that I'm not. But then, I've read a hell of a lot about the Shroud -- I think that I started sometime in the 70's. I started reading about you last monday.

--- Jabba
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Old 14th March 2012, 07:18 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Jabba#163
- But anyway, for the moment it is my understanding (and it makes sense) that the crown of thorns was not just atypical -- it was unique. The Bible story claims that many of the Jewish people welcomed Jesus as King when he entered Jerusalem a few days before his crucifixion, and that the Romans sarcastically placed the "crown" on his head and a sign on top of the cross saying "King of the Jews" because many Jews did consider him the Messiah and King.
Originally Posted by realpaladin View Post
But why would someone who loved him not first remove that symbol of mockery and despise? That is just downright evil...
Paladin (&Hans),
- They didn't leave the "crown of thorns" on Jesus' head -- what they left were some significant puncture wounds.
- Do you want references? (I ask that because providing the references will slow me down -- and probably, some of my answers will seem reasonable enough in themselves so as to not require references.)

Last edited by Jabba; 14th March 2012 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 14th March 2012, 07:40 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by jabba#163
- No-broken-bones was supposedly atypical because in order to breathe the victim had to keep lifting himself up, and the Romans would typically break the victims' legs in order to speed things up. And again, the Bible agrees with the no-broken-bones scenario.
Originally Posted by realpaladin View Post
What with the large number of people crucified in those same days, it stands to reason that not breaking bones was rather a timesaver, so it would probably occur with more people on that day.
Especially with Sabbath...
Paladin (& Hans),
- The quick answers:
1) I assume that it would only take one swing of an iron bar (which is what they used, if I remember correctly) to break one tibia or fibula.
2) From my understanding, the Romans generally avoided crucifixions on Fridays so as not to irritate the Jewish power brokers. In this case however, according to the New Testament, they were pressured by the Jewish Power brokers to do it, and to finish the job, before the Sabbath (beginning Friday evening).
- Would you like references?

Last edited by Jabba; 14th March 2012 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 14th March 2012, 07:55 AM   #211
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Jabba, do we have an updated list of discussion topics for this subject. I have a point or two that can wait a couple of pages, but I would like to make sure they is not overlooked.

Arms
  • How does the right arm reach the left side of the body? And the left arm also might be impossibly long.
  • And what's with those unnaturally long fingers? It's creepy. In fact it makes Jesus quite asymmetrically deformed. Wasn't there a rule about deformed folks not being able to go into the temple?

Head
  • Are issues related to the proportions at the top of the head?
  • How does one explain the wrap-around effect (which has been mentioned several times, but I want to get it on the official list of things to be addressed)?

I think there is something wrong with the height, but I'll let someone else descibe exactly what that is.

Last edited by Ladewig; 14th March 2012 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 14th March 2012, 08:36 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
That's not the explanation given by Jabba, it's just the explanation given in this pro-authenticity video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRmCaindCpg at about 1:10.

It's pretty funny, but not the explanation given by Jabba, in fact Jabba has offered no explanation for the non-distorted image.

Is this the correct explanation, Jabba?

Ward
Ward,
- I don't know -- but, I do expect quantum physics to change a lot of our notions about the nature of reality...
- For me, a very interesting video.
--- Jabba
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Old 14th March 2012, 08:48 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Jabba, do we have an updated list of discussion topics for this subject. I have a point or two that can wait a couple of pages, but I would like to make sure they is not overlooked.

Arms
  • How does the right arm reach the left side of the body? And the left arm also might be impossibly long.
  • And what's with those unnaturally long fingers? It's creepy. In fact it makes Jesus quite asymmetrically deformed. Wasn't there a rule about deformed folks not being able to go into the temple?

Head
  • Are issues related to the proportions at the top of the head?
  • How does one explain the wrap-around effect (which has been mentioned several times, but I want to get it on the official list of things to be addressed)?

I think there is something wrong with the height, but I'll let someone else descibe exactly what that is.
Ladewig,
- Good questions.
- I'll see what I can do about a list of discussion topics. I'm just having a hard time keeping up.
- Though I am retired, my afternoons and evenings tend to be taken up with other responsibilities (my to-do list seems to grow with each passing day, and I save the evenings for communing with my wife...) -- so these discussions are pretty much limited to the mornings for me.
--- Jabba
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Old 14th March 2012, 09:26 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
Nitpick, it's probably a fourteenth century fake, ~1350.
You're right, thankyou for the correction.
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Old 14th March 2012, 10:17 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Ward,
- I don't know -- but, I do expect quantum physics to change a lot of our notions about the nature of reality...
- For me, a very interesting video.
--- Jabba
Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. The Quantum has been introduced.
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Old 14th March 2012, 10:25 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Ward,
- I don't know -- but, I do expect quantum physics to change a lot of our notions about the nature of reality...
- For me, a very interesting video.
--- Jabba
Maybe - but I don't believe anyone with an understanding of quantum physics believes it will make any appreciable difference to our notions of reality at a macro level...
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Old 14th March 2012, 10:32 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. The Quantum has been introduced.
It was only a matter of time, it has an amazing attraction for woosters of all types.
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:03 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Paladin,
- I don't think that's true -- in reality, I don't know you from Adam...
- I do like your style, and you seem pretty knowledgeable about things that I'm not. But then, I've read a hell of a lot about the Shroud -- I think that I started sometime in the 70's. I started reading about you last monday.

--- Jabba

Jabba, seriously and without wishing you any ill will at all, if you've been trying to look into the shroud story since the 1970's, then you really should do yourself a favour and get a copy of Harry Gove's book.

That's not an atheist book or a shroud sceptic book. It's a first hand account of what happened in all of the 10 years of meetings meetings which the Vatican and it's science advisors arranged to discuss with radicarbon scientists (inc. Gove) whether or not they should agree to radiocarbon dating, and if so then which labs they would entrust with the samples and how they wanted the samples handled etc.

If you read that book you will see very clearly how the Vatican's science advisors behaved throughout all those 10 years of meetings (all the advisors were priests), and how the STURP members behaved throughout (STURP are the Vatican's unofficially endorsed group of US Christian scientists who have been conducting what they like to call "scientific" tests on the shroud since the 1970's).

You will, of course also see very clearly from that book why the C14 dates are almost certainly correct. As well as why the cloth samples were definitely not from any patch or repair.

Do yourself a cheap favour - spend $5 on a used copy of that book, eg here at US Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Relic-Icon-Hoa...1747808&sr=8-3
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:20 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Ladewig,
- Good questions.
- I'll see what I can do about a list of discussion topics. I'm just having a hard time keeping up.
- Though I am retired, my afternoons and evenings tend to be taken up with other responsibilities (my to-do list seems to grow with each passing day, and I save the evenings for communing with my wife...) -- so these discussions are pretty much limited to the mornings for me.
--- Jabba


Jabba,

I do not think you understand what is going on here.

Let me tell you..... If I have never ever heard of the Shroud and I have not an iota of information about it.... I would still not accept your claim that it is made by some miracle of a man/god rising from the dead.

Not because I am inclined to reject it..... I am just inclined to not believe you or anyone that claims such things.

So the only way I might even entertain that it might be something as worthy of even considering on par with the sandals found at Masada, I need incontrovertible proof that it is from 33 AD.

Once we have undeniable PROOF..... not proof that it is from 1200 AD that is denied....see the difference...... until then I would believe you.

All your argument is based upon, is that the proofs that it is from 1200 AD are wrong.

Well ..... ok then.... I will grant you that.....what does that prove consequently? What does the fact that the proof it is from 1200AD is wrong establish?

Come on.....use your brain that you use on daily basis to avoid being fooled (e.g. when buying a used car). Use that normal healthy logic and skepticism that you use say against Islam or Scientology or Mormonism. Use your "common sense".

Tell me....what does saying that it is not from 1200 AD prove?

If I argued that it is actually from 5000 AD and came back in a time machine or it is from 2000 BCE and it is the one used by Zeus (the guy looks like him).... what would your healthy normal logical brain say to that?

All that you know is that the tests to prove what year it is from FAILED to establish the date according to your wishful thinking and delusions and blinded bias.....THAT IS ALL YOU "know"

So how can you then jump to the conclusion that because it is not from 1200 AD it must be from 33 AD???? How on earth can your logic all of sudden become so devoid of any rational thinking.

Why is it that you REJECT that it is Zeus or Argaroan from the future?

What basis do you have for rejecting either of the claims that it is Zeus or from 5000 AD come back in a time machine?

Use the exact same "logic" that makes you reject the above two claims and apply it to your claim that it is Jesus.

I am sure that you are capable of buying a used car without being fleeced and I am sure that you do not accept the claims that Mohammad Travelled to Jerusalem and then took an elevator up to God..... I mean there is the proof for you shiny and beautiful....The Dome of the Rock....it is right there to prove the power of Mohammad..... if it was not god who helped him how could a barefoot camel herder in the span of 50 years conquer half the civilized world of the time and establish 1400 years of Islam with 1.9 billion people genuflecting 5 times a day as a proof of the fact.

Apply the same "logic" you use to reject the claims of Moslims that Mecca was built by God and they need to go there to walk around it a few times every year.

Why are you not a Hindu or Zoroastrian?

Could it be because you are blinded by your TRIBALISM and you are incapable of shaking off your childhood inculcations and your societal indoctrination? Could it be wishful thinking and desire to alleviate cognitive dissonance pangs?

How can a sane human being jump from the fact that something is not known when it was made to it is definitely made in 33 AD?

And even if it were from 33 AD why would it be Jesus..... why can't it have been Simon Bar Kochba or The Roman Emperror Vespasian who no less than Josephus claimed was the messiah.


Do you really not see how ludicrous your claim is? Are you really that incapable of recognizing a SHAM?

Stop wasting your time trying to sell us the fake gold bar.... we will not buy it because despite all the desire to buy a pound of gold for $100 dollars we are not going to let our wishful thinking delude us into falling for a HOAX.
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:33 AM   #220
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Leumas,
- I'm not claiming that there is anything miraculous about it.
- As and aside, how do I get an avatar. I thought I had uploaded one in my profile...
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:45 AM   #221
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Calvary twill?

Jabba

In your post #163 you tell us
Quote:
The Shroud is very fancy -- not something that most crucifixion victims would receive -- but, it was a fabric and weave available in Jerusalem during the first century CE.
In fact, it was something that one priest at least didn't receive.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it is reported in http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...salem-leprosy/ that a first century shroud has indeed been found in a Jerusalem tomb, in a cemetery "filled with priestly and aristocratic burials" which would, unlike that of the average executed felon, have included the best shrouds available. Despite this
Quote:
The weave of the Tomb of the Shroud fabric, the new study says, casts further doubt on the Shroud of Turin as Jesus' burial cloth.

The newfound shroud was something of a patchwork of simply woven linen and wool textiles, the study found. The Shroud of Turin, by contrast, is made of a single textile woven in a complex twill pattern, a type of cloth not known to have been available in the region until medieval times ( ... )

Assuming the new shroud typifies those used in Jerusalem during the time of Jesus, the researchers maintain that the Shroud of Turin could not have originated in the city.
It would therefore be helpful if you could give us a source confirming the availability of fabrics of this kind in Jerusalem in the first century, in contradiction to the National Geographic's 2009 report, cited above.
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:56 AM   #222
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Craig,
- You're right. I'll get that for you as soon as I can.
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:57 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
Jabba, seriously and without wishing you any ill will at all, if you've been trying to look into the shroud story since the 1970's, then you really should do yourself a favour and get a copy of Harry Gove's book.

That's not an atheist book or a shroud sceptic book. It's a first hand account of what happened in all of the 10 years of meetings meetings which the Vatican and it's science advisors arranged to discuss with radicarbon scientists (inc. Gove) whether or not they should agree to radiocarbon dating, and if so then which labs they would entrust with the samples and how they wanted the samples handled etc.

If you read that book you will see very clearly how the Vatican's science advisors behaved throughout all those 10 years of meetings (all the advisors were priests), and how the STURP members behaved throughout (STURP are the Vatican's unofficially endorsed group of US Christian scientists who have been conducting what they like to call "scientific" tests on the shroud since the 1970's).

You will, of course also see very clearly from that book why the C14 dates are almost certainly correct. As well as why the cloth samples were definitely not from any patch or repair.

Do yourself a cheap favour - spend $5 on a used copy of that book, eg here at US Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Relic-Icon-Hoa...1747808&sr=8-3
IanS.
- I'll do that. Hopefully, they have it in Kindle.
- Thanks.
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Old 14th March 2012, 12:50 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Leumas,
- I'm not claiming that there is anything miraculous about it.
- As and aside, how do I get an avatar. I thought I had uploaded one in my profile...
Thats all you have in response to Leumas? Thats it?

Leumas never says you claimed it was miraculous, he spent a great deal of words asking you to think about the following.

If you can prove the carbon dating was wrong or inaccurate you still have not proved when the shroud was made and you still have not proved the shroud is that of the Jesus. You will have only proved that the carbon dating was wrong. That doesn't even prove that it wasn't made in the 1300's only that there was a flaw in the testing.

Why then do you jump to the conclusion that bad carbon dating = burial shroud of Jesus?

Go into "forum help" to learn about your avatar.
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Old 14th March 2012, 01:08 PM   #225
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Biscuit (& Leumas),
- Sorry about that. I've been rushing.
- Unfortunately, if a response takes much thought and is not about Paladin's question -- i.e., even if we could show that the Shroud was 2000 years old, why would we logically think that it had to be that of Jesus -- I have to put it on hold.
- I'll go back, fully read Leumas' post this time, and see if I have any quick answers.
- If I should have read your post more carefully, I'll be back.
--- Jabba

Last edited by Jabba; 14th March 2012 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 14th March 2012, 01:39 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Leumas,
- I'm not claiming that there is anything miraculous about it.
..
Quick question to cover my sloppy reading of the thread.

Your position is that the Shroud is not miraculous and the Shroud is impossible to recreate even with 21st century knowledge?

Last edited by Ladewig; 14th March 2012 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 14th March 2012, 01:39 PM   #227
realpaladin
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Originally Posted by Biscuit
If you can prove the carbon dating was wrong or inaccurate you still have not proved when the shroud was made and you still have not proved the shroud is that of the Jesus. You will have only proved that the carbon dating was wrong. That doesn't even prove that it wasn't made in the 1300's only that there was a flaw in the testing.
Indeed. Because even *IF* the carbon dating were spot-on 33 AD, there is nothing to prevent an unused piece of cloth being used by a 14th century forger...

There are some documented cases, in painting, where the whole (carbon) dating was completely spot-on, but in the end it were forgeries.

That was why I kept insisting on a documented trail of transference of this single object. And even then...

I do not want to Godwin this thread, but a certain, from quite recent history, group of Europeans did things to people who now live where Jesus would have lived and they documented things like nothing ever before... and even their exploits are not without doubters...
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Old 14th March 2012, 01:40 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Biscuit (& Leumas),
- Sorry about that. I've been rushing.
- Unfortunately, if a response takes much thought and is not about Paladin's question -- i.e., even if we could show that the Shroud was 2000 years old, why would we logically think that it had to be that of Jesus -- I have to put it on hold.
- I'll go back, fully read Leumas' post this time, and see if I have any quick answers.
- If I should have read your post more carefully, I'll be back.
--- Jabba
if you spent as much time responding as you do telling us when you are scheduled to respond (according, no doubt, to the incredibly complex procedures laid down in your shroud debate site) you'd have told us everything by now, and saved yourself a lot of stress and wasted energy.
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Old 14th March 2012, 01:49 PM   #229
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You know, Jabba, I can't help but think that if you spent less time posting about how you can't post or how you'd like to post and instead just posted, then this whole thread would go a lot smoother and quicker for everybody.

In fact, doing a quick count, 15 of your thus far 41 posts in this thread have been about how you can't post, or how you intend to post. That's 36%. More than a third. And that's being generous and counting posts that merely have contents like saying thanks to someone for recommending something for you to read, or asking someone to re-post a link they've posted earlier in the thread as on-topic responses, rather than as pointless posts.

Seriously, if you stopped worrying about how you're posting and directed that energy into actually posting, then I'm sure everyone would find it all a lot easier, yourself included.
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Old 14th March 2012, 01:50 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
if you spent as much time responding as you do telling us when you are scheduled to respond (according, no doubt, to the incredibly complex procedures laid down in your shroud debate site) you'd have told us everything by now, and saved yourself a lot of stress and wasted energy.
Great minds...
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Old 14th March 2012, 01:53 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Biscuit (& Leumas),
- Sorry about that. I've been rushing.
Then wait to respond with a reasoned answer. This isn't a chess match and there is no clock but answers like this are a waste of everyones time.

Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
- Unfortunately, if a response takes much thought and is not about Paladin's question -- i.e., even if we could show that the Shroud was 2000 years old, why would we logically think that it had to be that of Jesus -- I have to put it on hold.
Fine but it seems to me you are arguing from an unsubstantiated assertion.

Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
- I'll go back, fully read Leumas' post this time, and see if I have any quick answers.
You should have read it the first time before responding. But if you make an honest attempt then all we be forgiven... by me anyway. You already have several members calling troll and with out some serious effort on your behalf I might be joining that camp soon. Lots of people have carefully read and responded to your posts, please take the time to do the same or don't bother.

Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
- If I should have read your post more carefully, I'll be back.
--- Jabba
My post is a quick summation of Leumas' post. Answer either.
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Old 14th March 2012, 01:58 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Paladin (&Hans),

- Do you want references? (I ask that because providing the references will slow me down -- and probably, some of my answers will seem reasonable enough in themselves so as to not require references.)
YES! For the love of Vishnu if you make claims that contradict the referenced claims of others you need to produce a source for that claim.
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Old 14th March 2012, 02:15 PM   #233
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well my firefox seems to have it about right. This is all I can get from the site slideshow:

I wonder if this constitutes a miracle? (The miracle didn't extend to avoiding the awful cheesy 'Ave Maria' MIDI sound though)
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Old 14th March 2012, 03:34 PM   #234
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Part 2 of the slideshow works, but the navigation on that site is brutal.

100% paraedolia.
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Old 14th March 2012, 04:00 PM   #235
Jabba
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Quick question to cover my sloppy reading of the thread.

Your position is that the Shroud is not miraculous and the Shroud is impossible to recreate even with 21st century knowledge?
Ladewig,
- I'm not claiming that the Shroud is miraculous -- but, neither am I claiming that it is not. I guess that I'm "neutral" so far.
- One problem is that what is "miraculous" now -- in that it doesn't fit with current scientific principles -- might fit quite snuggly with future scientific principles.
- Whatever, for now, I'm not claiming anything about "miracles."

- Regarding 21st century knowledge -- I suspect that the Shroud cannot be recreated using current knowledge.

- Thanks for the questions.
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Old 14th March 2012, 04:04 PM   #236
carlitos
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
- Regarding 21st century knowledge -- I suspect that the Shroud cannot be recreated using current knowledge.
Italian scientist recreates shroud using mideival technology.


Quote:
Garlaschelli reproduced the full-sized shroud using materials and techniques that were available in the middle ages.

They placed a linen sheet flat over a volunteer and then rubbed it with a pigment containing traces of acid. A mask was used for the face.

PIGMENT, BLOODSTAINS AND SCORCHES

The pigment was then artificially aged by heating the cloth in an oven and washing it, a process which removed it from the surface but left a fuzzy, half-tone image similar to that on the Shroud. He believes the pigment on the original Shroud faded naturally over the centuries.

They then added blood stains, burn holes, scorches and water stains to achieve the final effect.
With today's technology, we could make a Jesus burial shroud dance and sing in a 3d hologram. You are wasting your free time on this nonsense.
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Old 14th March 2012, 04:37 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by carlitos
Italian scientist recreates shroud using mideival technology.

With today's technology, we could make a Jesus burial shroud dance and sing in a 3d hologram. You are wasting your free time on this nonsense.
With todays technology we could make a 3D model of a 'shroudprinter', distribute it via the Internet and have thousands of people create shrouds on-demand (after they printed the 'shroudprinter' via a 3D printer and assembled it).
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Old 14th March 2012, 04:44 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Alex Cured View Post
well my firefox seems to have it about right. This is all I can get from the site slideshow:
http://i43.tinypic.com/353830h.jpg
I wonder if this constitutes a miracle? (The miracle didn't extend to avoiding the awful cheesy 'Ave Maria' MIDI sound though)
You have your tabs on the side?

A) How?

and

B) Why?
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Old 14th March 2012, 04:46 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
- Regarding 21st century knowledge -- I suspect that the Shroud cannot be recreated using current knowledge.
This has been refuted, in this thread, more than once. Either you've not been reading this thread, or you're deliberately ignoring anything that incontrovertibly contradicts you.
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Old 14th March 2012, 05:05 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You have your tabs on the side?

A) How?

and

B) Why?
a) https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...ree-style-tab/

b) it saves a bit of vertical space; tabs self-organise in trees; easy to reorder trees and tabs; trees expand/collapse with/without focus.
I think it's neat(er)
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