Malaysia deports Saudi journalist Hamza Kashgari

Ah yes, the barbaric medeival [feces]hole known as Saudi Arabia.

No one cares because they have lots of oil, and besides this is the way most Saudis like it. If the House of Saud gets overthrown it will likely be from people who think it's not conservative or backwards enough.
 
WildCat said:
No one cares because they have lots of oil, and besides this is the way most Saudis like it. If the House of Saud gets overthrown it will likely be from people who think it's not conservative or backwards enough.
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Especially after the Saudi government strangled their own Arab Spring uprising (by oppressed Shia, disaffected poor youth, and reform activists) in its crib last spring, thanks to a combination of mass arrests, implicit and explicit threats, token social reforms, and hefty economic bribes.

The "Day of Rage" protests (which the incipient protesters wanted to occur on March 11, 2011, the anniversary date of the horrific tragedy in 2002 where members of the mutawwa prevented unveiled girls from escaping a school building fire, resulting in them burning to death) never stood a chance.
 
Just curious; What was the general reaction by the Saudi public to the 2002 event you referenced?
 
Is there anything we can do to stop this? Should we (the West) not have the balls to stand up to this sort of thing? If so what?

I am so saddened by this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17001900 and feel so powerless. Arggggggh!
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Who is this "we" Kimo Sabe? :confused:

I don't see much of anyone stepping forward to stand up for this fella. Given that a sovereign nation, Malaysia, chose to honor its extradition deal with the Saudis, for whatever reason, can you give a just cause for interfering?

Politically, how many nations need the standing practice of extradition treaties to remain effective so that they can track down and nail any number of serious criminals, or just nuisance criminals who it is politically important to get home to face whatever justice is available in that realm?

He's goin' home to face the music, it appears.

What do you suggest be done, given your keen interest in this affair? :confused:

Consider the precedent set a few years back by some Western governments: they sought extradition from nations for the Western citizens who were engaging in certain sexual practices, "sex tourism" as it were. I think the Germans led, but they weren't alone.

Well, to the Saudis, and this guy did what is apparently illegal in Saudi Arabia, it appears the blasphemy is as serious to them as screwing underage boys and girls is to Westerners. And the Malaysians appear to agree, somewhat.

Am I happy about this? No, this is step backwards, away from a freer world. :(

But precedent has been amply set: "He did something illegal in our homeland, please extradite him so we can deal with him." And sometimes, it has been agreed.
 
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Malaysia does not have an extradition treaty with Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia, however, controls all access to Mecca. Which matters quite a bit to Muslim governments of Muslim nations, given a Certain Pillar of Islam...
 
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ANTPogo said:
Malaysia does not have an extradition treaty with Saudi Arabia.
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Really? How did you arrive at that conclusion? (But now I need to look that up, so thanks for alerting me to a possibly erroneous assumption.)
*checks*
OK, they have an "informal deal" not a formal treaty. Thanks.

Malaysia and Saudi Arabia do not share a formal extradition treaty, but do have close ties as fellow Muslim countries. The Malaysian interior minister, Hishammuddin Hussein, said in a statement that Kashgari's deportation was due to a common agreement.

"Malaysia had a long-standing arrangement by which individuals wanted by one country are extradited when detained by the other, and [Kashgari] will be repatriated under this agreement," the statement read. "The nature of the charges against the individual in this case are a matter for the Saudi Arabian authorities."​
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/12/malaysia-deports-saudi-journalist-prophet

That doesn't change the political truth of what I wrote. Politics is about making deals, is it not?
Saudi Arabia, however, controls all access to Mecca. Which matters quite a bit to Muslim governments of Muslim nations, given a Certain Pillar of Islam...
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Fair enough.

Leverage.

Teaching point: you don't have to have a formal treaty to have a "special relationship" with another nation. ;)
 
Darth Rotor said:
Who is this "we" Kimo Sabe? :confused:

I don't see much of anyone stepping forward to stand up for this fella. Given that a sovereign nation, Malaysia, chose to honor its extradition deal with the Saudis, for whatever reason, can you give a just cause for interfering?

Politically, how many nations need the standing practice of extradition treaties to remain effective so that they can track down and nail any number of serious criminals, or just nuisance criminals who it is politically important to get home to face whatever justice is available in that realm?

He's goin' home to face the music, it appears.

What do you suggest be done, given your keen interest in this affair? :confused:

Consider the precedent set a few years back by some Western governments: they sought extradition from nations for the Western citizens who were engaging in certain sexual practices, "sex tourism" as it were. I think the Germans led, but they weren't alone.

Well, to the Saudis, and this guy did what is apparently illegal in Saudi Arabia, it appears the blasphemy is as serious to them as screwing underage boys and girls is to Westerners. And the Malaysians appear to agree, somewhat.

Am I happy about this? No, this is step backwards, away from a freer world. :(

But precedent has been amply set: "He did something illegal in our homeland, please extradite him so we can deal with him." And sometimes, it has been agreed.
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Semantically you know who 'we' are!

You maybe right, we have little to do, and I confirmed that in my stated true feeling of hopelessness.

I still am preparing a letter to the Saudi embassy which I will be delivering by hand tomorrow.

Other than that, why not do a 'Draw Mohamed Day' every day, and not some yearly statement.

I am happy to start.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/album.php?albumid=317&pictureid=5568

album.php


album.php
 
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I don't know what you expect; I, from long experience, expect nothing at all -- complete indifference -- form the usual "human rights" gang which goes berserk over anything Israel does, that's for damn sure.
 
Human Rights Watch (a group funded by the Dark Lord Soros himself!) has also spoken out against this.

Even "hacktivist" collective Anonymous has come out in support of Kashgari.

You know who hasn't been all over this outrage, and is really the one showing "complete indifference" to Kashgari's plight? Fox News, that's who.

As of this writing at least, almost a week after the Kashgari story broke, I can't find a single story on it at the Fox website.

Meanwhile, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC and CNN have all reported the Kashgari story, cluing their viewers in on how far totalitarian Islam, Saudi style, will go to exert its control over the human spirit. But not Fox.

Say -- you don't suppose the fact that Prince Talal bin Alwaleed owns the second-largest block of stock (7 percent) in Newscorp, Fox News' parent company, not to mention a new $300 million stake in Twitter (almost 4 percent), has anything to do with Fox silence on this Saudi black eye of a story?

After all, it was Saudi dictator King Abdullah -- Alwaleed's uncle -- whom press accounts credit with ordering the tweeting journalist's hot pursuit and imprisonment. And it is Saudi Arabia's adherence to Islamic limits on free speech that is driving Kashgari's ordeal.
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I have an even lower opinion of Fox now.


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I tried other searches including for the key words "malaysia" "deportation" "saudi" "arabia".

Wow, Fox.
 
Not the smartest idea to travel to Malaysia after trying to escape (possible) blasphemy charges in Saudi Arabia. Probably had a facepalm moment thinking back on his decision process.
 
bigjelmapro said:
Not the smartest idea to travel to Malaysia after trying to escape (possible) blasphemy charges in Saudi Arabia. Probably had a facepalm moment thinking back on his decision process.
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Malaysia was just a layover. He was actually trying to get to New Zealand to claim asylum, when Malay officials detained him at the airport.
 
bigjelmapro said:
Ok then, via Malaysia.
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I don't know exactly what the circumstances were regarding his decision to leave Saudi Arabia, but it's possible he was trying to leave as quickly as possible and just picked the first available flight to a country where he could claim asylum, and so didn't have a lot of choice in the matter when it came to other countries where the plane might land before arriving at his chosen final destination.

I'm not trying to be contrary or anything, I just think it's premature to condemn his decision process based simply on what happened to him in Malaysia during a layover on his flight to New Zealand.
 
ANTPogo said:
I don't know exactly what the circumstances were regarding his decision to leave Saudi Arabia, but it's possible he was trying to leave as quickly as possible and just picked the first available flight to a country where he could claim asylum, and so didn't have a lot of choice in the matter when it came to other countries where the plane might land before arriving at his chosen final destination.

I'm not trying to be contrary or anything, I just think it's premature to condemn his decision process based simply on what happened to him in Malaysia during a layover on his flight to New Zealand.
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Hmm, there appears to be a "special relationship" between Malaysia and Saudi Arabia. Rather quick moving to catch him in transit.
 
And now this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17187560

Malaysia has cancelled a concert by US singer Erykah Badu after a publicity photo showed her with the Arabic word for "Allah" tattooed on her upper body.

Officials say the photo of Ms Badu in The Star newspaper was "an insult to Islam". The paper has apologised.
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Can Islam get any more thin skinned?

ETA: Why exactly does the paper that published this photo need to apologize for it?
 
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UMNO, the ruling party in Malaysia, has been trending rightward in recent years due to ethnic tensions between Malays and Chinese in the country. Since Malay ethnic identity has been strongly tied to Muslim religious identity, the more Malay-nationalist UMNO gets, the more conservative-Islamist it seems to get.

This has resulted in things like the riots over Malaysian Catholic churches using the word "Allah" in masses, crackdowns by "religious police" on Muslim couples celebrating Valentine's Day, and even last year's government ban of the Seksualiti Merdeka (Sexuality Independence) sexual rights festival, which had been celebrated every year without problems since 2008. And, of course, things like the sudden deportation of Kashgari ("conveniently" right before a Malaysian court ordered that deportation proceedings be halted) and the cancellation of Erykah Badu's concert ostensibly because of her tattoo.

Needless to say, this has not been seen as a positive trend among ethnic and religious pluralists and moderates in Malaysia.
 
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ANTPogo said:
I don't know exactly what the circumstances were regarding his decision to leave Saudi Arabia, but it's possible he was trying to leave as quickly as possible and just picked the first available flight to a country where he could claim asylum, and so didn't have a lot of choice in the matter when it came to other countries where the plane might land before arriving at his chosen final destination.

I'm not trying to be contrary or anything, I just think it's premature to condemn his decision process based simply on what happened to him in Malaysia during a layover on his flight to New Zealand.
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I definitely understand the argument, but nonetheless, the guy must be retrospectively thinking back on his poor decision making process of his stopover choice.

I really hope that the US government puts some weight on the Saudi government to cease acting the way it does and rewrite their blasphemy laws.
 
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