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Old 10th March 2012, 02:53 PM   #1
Abdul Alhazred
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Lightbulb The Southern Poverty Law Center ... Menís Rights Movement

Wow. A whole nother sexist subculture Iíd never have heard of but for the internet.

The Southern Poverty Law Center notices the Menís Rights Movement
PZ Myers et al
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Old 10th March 2012, 04:46 PM   #2
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I have had a lot of my male acquaintances go through a pickup artist phase. (Oddly enough that label always makes me think pickpocket artist first. Which is somewhat less bad than the more appropriate label of "I wish my talking worked like roofies" dreamers.) Most of them got better. Still a lot of sexist drivel that comes with those "skills".
For some reason they seem unable to separate the men'r reproductive rights from wifebeating and rape fantasies. That makes me feel a bit awkward as a male.

Last edited by Moss; 10th March 2012 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 10th March 2012, 06:18 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Moss View Post
I have had a lot of my male acquaintances go through a pickup artist phase. (Oddly enough that label always makes me think pickpocket artist first. Which is somewhat less bad than the more appropriate label of "I wish my talking worked like roofies" dreamers.) Most of them got better. Still a lot of sexist drivel that comes with those "skills".
For some reason they seem unable to separate the men'r reproductive rights from wifebeating and rape fantasies. That makes me feel a bit awkward as a male.
On top of all of that they have the nerve to call their pickup techniques "game".

Its actually the exact opposite of game. Game in nothing more than confidence in who you are.
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Old 10th March 2012, 08:31 PM   #4
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Yeah the Men's Rights Movement is mostly filled with crass misogynists (you can get more details about this movement from this blog if you like).
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Old 10th March 2012, 10:15 PM   #5
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Talking about Men's Rights movement the way these people do is exactly like talking about Atheism in terms of Stalin and Mao and Hitler. Exactly, because of course, Hitler wasn't even an atheists.

Saying that it's mostly filled with crass misogynists is exactly like saying that feminism is mostly filled with clones of Andrea Dworkin.

As for the "sexist drivel that comes with those "skills"," which is really a swipe at the Seduction Community which is really another issue, there isn't any. I get annoyed with the Seduction Community people, too. But that's because I think they are stupid, and they only have a superficial understanding of something I have come to understand much better. In cultures like that of Italy and Greece and maybe France, when it is considered important to teach boys how to relate to women, the Seduction Community would be laughable.

But before you get mad at them, consider that they are the only people even trying in our sex-negative culture. If we had any sense, our culture would render it superfluous, and as an aside, get rid of that sexist and wooish drivel.

There is no sexism or woo in sexual socialization. It's in the way it comes to be taught, and the only reason people came up with that way of teaching is that is that nobody teaches it properly.
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Old 10th March 2012, 10:21 PM   #6
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http://xkcd.com/1027/

It seems related.

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Old 11th March 2012, 01:06 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by epepke View Post
Talking about Men's Rights movement the way these people do is exactly like talking about Atheism in terms of Stalin and Mao and Hitler. Exactly, because of course, Hitler wasn't even an atheists.

Saying that it's mostly filled with crass misogynists is exactly like saying that feminism is mostly filled with clones of Andrea Dworkin.

As for the "sexist drivel that comes with those "skills"," which is really a swipe at the Seduction Community which is really another issue, there isn't any. I get annoyed with the Seduction Community people, too. But that's because I think they are stupid, and they only have a superficial understanding of something I have come to understand much better. In cultures like that of Italy and Greece and maybe France, when it is considered important to teach boys how to relate to women, the Seduction Community would be laughable.

But before you get mad at them, consider that they are the only people even trying in our sex-negative culture. If we had any sense, our culture would render it superfluous, and as an aside, get rid of that sexist and wooish drivel.

There is no sexism or woo in sexual socialization. It's in the way it comes to be taught, and the only reason people came up with that way of teaching is that is that nobody teaches it properly.
What? No. Just no. I couldn't disagree more. Its not that no one teaches it properly, its that some people can't handle someone not being interested in them.
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Old 11th March 2012, 09:26 AM   #8
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'Pickup lines' is one thing, rationalizing date rape and glorifying the rohypnol culture, which feeds into DV and the 'women and kids are filthy liars who hate real men' inflation of false accusations is something else. And it isn't 'seduction'

The 'Men's rights' movement may have started off as an expression of outrage over bad divorce judgements and men as unseen victims of DV, but the label has been coopted.
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Old 11th March 2012, 12:13 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by epepke View Post
Talking about Men's Rights movement the way these people do is exactly like talking about Atheism in terms of Stalin and Mao and Hitler. Exactly, because of course, Hitler wasn't even an atheists.

Saying that it's mostly filled with crass misogynists is exactly like saying that feminism is mostly filled with clones of Andrea Dworkin.

As for the "sexist drivel that comes with those "skills"," which is really a swipe at the Seduction Community which is really another issue, there isn't any. I get annoyed with the Seduction Community people, too. But that's because I think they are stupid, and they only have a superficial understanding of something I have come to understand much better. In cultures like that of Italy and Greece and maybe France, when it is considered important to teach boys how to relate to women, the Seduction Community would be laughable.

But before you get mad at them, consider that they are the only people even trying in our sex-negative culture. If we had any sense, our culture would render it superfluous, and as an aside, get rid of that sexist and wooish drivel.

There is no sexism or woo in sexual socialization. It's in the way it comes to be taught, and the only reason people came up with that way of teaching is that is that nobody teaches it properly.
Wow. This explains so much. Honestly, I don't even know where to start. Sex-negative culture? Generalizations about the machismo techniques of southern Europe? Only PUA's are trying to relate to the opposite sex?

The US is sex-obsessed. We're sexually free and sexually repressed at the same time. This does cause a bit of cognitive dissonance. Women who use birth control are "sluts" and responsible for their own well being. One night stands are both socially frowned upon and treated as fairly trivial. The idea of consent is both overplayed and completely ignored/misunderstood. The population is more accepting of gay marriage but our politicians are going apepoop. Sexual permissibility is so prevalent that it is experiencing backlash. It's sex, that makes it complicated. Far too complicated for over-simplification like "sex-negative culture."

I'm not even going to touch the gross generalizations of Greek, French and Italian culture except to point out that media is worldwide these days and there is a lot of cross pollination of ideas.

You say that the PUA's are the only ones who are trying but trying to what? Have one night stands? Find long-term partners? Fill the aching void that is the human condition? I can't see how any of those would be the sole purview of the PUA community. You're ignoring an awful lot of people who simply talk to each other without an agenda and discover, to their surprise and delight, that they are simpatico. Dating (like sex, like friendship, like business associations and all other human interaction) is multifaceted.
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Old 11th March 2012, 12:38 PM   #10
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The wimminz are obviously evil bitchez, responsible for most of the murders, corruption and rapes. Men's rights!

Anyway, I hate Morris Dees, and I can't take the SPLC too seriously. But with that said, he is kind of my hero: I'd love to become a multi-millionaire by fighting poverty.
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Old 11th March 2012, 02:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
The wimminz are obviously evil bitchez, responsible for most of the murders, corruption and rapes. Men's rights!

Anyway, I hate Morris Dees, and I can't take the SPLC too seriously. But with that said, he is kind of my hero: I'd love to become a multi-millionaire by fighting poverty.
Oh I dunno, any org who bankrupts the Klan is OK in my book.
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Old 11th March 2012, 06:39 PM   #12
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Old 11th March 2012, 07:10 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by bookitty View Post
Wow. This explains so much. Honestly, I don't even know where to start. Sex-negative culture? Generalizations about the machismo techniques of southern Europe? Only PUA's are trying to relate to the opposite sex?

The US is sex-obsessed. We're sexually free and sexually repressed at the same time. This does cause a bit of cognitive dissonance. Women who use birth control are "sluts" and responsible for their own well being. One night stands are both socially frowned upon and treated as fairly trivial. The idea of consent is both overplayed and completely ignored/misunderstood. The population is more accepting of gay marriage but our politicians are going apepoop. Sexual permissibility is so prevalent that it is experiencing backlash. It's sex, that makes it complicated. Far too complicated for over-simplification like "sex-negative culture."

I'm not even going to touch the gross generalizations of Greek, French and Italian culture except to point out that media is worldwide these days and there is a lot of cross pollination of ideas.

You say that the PUA's are the only ones who are trying but trying to what? Have one night stands? Find long-term partners? Fill the aching void that is the human condition? I can't see how any of those would be the sole purview of the PUA community. You're ignoring an awful lot of people who simply talk to each other without an agenda and discover, to their surprise and delight, that they are simpatico. Dating (like sex, like friendship, like business associations and all other human interaction) is multifaceted.
I wish I could Like this post, ala Facebook. In lieu of that, I am forced to Nominate it.
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Old 11th March 2012, 07:31 PM   #14
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Also, note that PUA (pick-up artists) and MRAs (Men's Rights Activists) don't really like one another and lumping them together is just a ploy to tar one group using another. SAVE was also on their list, for what ... wanting to make DV laws gender neutral and to get some federal money to go to men's shelters (oh, those evil people). Plus, anyone that believes Manboobz site is anything but bigotry and cherry-picking needs to hand in their skeptic card. I won't even go into all crap they got wrong. As a side note: the SPLC didn't even do the report they contracted out and refuses to tell who did (can anyone say obvious bias).
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Old 11th March 2012, 10:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Naive1000 View Post

Also, note that PUA (pick-up artists) and MRAs (Men's Rights Activists) don't really like one another and lumping them together is just a ploy to tar one group using another.
of course. Father's rights movement = so-called Men's Rights Movement = pickup artists, pedophiles, mass murderers...

The writer feels you are either a feminist or a misogynist. He attacked foreign marriages because the wives are too submissive. Feminist immigration is just fine. Why not just have re-education camps? And for their husbands too, of course.
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Old 11th March 2012, 11:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by bookitty View Post
Wow. This explains so much. Honestly, I don't even know where to start. Sex-negative culture? Generalizations about the machismo techniques of southern Europe? Only PUA's are trying to relate to the opposite sex?

The US is sex-obsessed. We're sexually free and sexually repressed at the same time. This does cause a bit of cognitive dissonance. Women who use birth control are "sluts" and responsible for their own well being. One night stands are both socially frowned upon and treated as fairly trivial. The idea of consent is both overplayed and completely ignored/misunderstood. The population is more accepting of gay marriage but our politicians are going apepoop. Sexual permissibility is so prevalent that it is experiencing backlash. It's sex, that makes it complicated. Far too complicated for over-simplification like "sex-negative culture."

I'm not even going to touch the gross generalizations of Greek, French and Italian culture except to point out that media is worldwide these days and there is a lot of cross pollination of ideas.

You say that the PUA's are the only ones who are trying but trying to what? Have one night stands? Find long-term partners? Fill the aching void that is the human condition? I can't see how any of those would be the sole purview of the PUA community. You're ignoring an awful lot of people who simply talk to each other without an agenda and discover, to their surprise and delight, that they are simpatico. Dating (like sex, like friendship, like business associations and all other human interaction) is multifaceted.
"The US is sex-obsessed"

The US is a filled with individuals and diverse cultures.


"The idea of consent is both overplayed and completely ignored/misunderstood."
Huh?

I'm interested in the ideas you're expressing, but I don't really understand alot of what you wrote. Could you clarify?
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Old 12th March 2012, 01:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Naive1000 View Post

Also, note that PUA (pick-up artists) and MRAs (Men's Rights Activists) don't really like one another and lumping them together is just a ploy to tar one group using another. SAVE was also on their list, for what ... wanting to make DV laws gender neutral and to get some federal money to go to men's shelters (oh, those evil people). Plus, anyone that believes Manboobz site is anything but bigotry and cherry-picking needs to hand in their skeptic card. I won't even go into all crap they got wrong. As a side note: the SPLC didn't even do the report they contracted out and refuses to tell who did (can anyone say obvious bias).
Those links certainlly aren't biased either..

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
of course. Father's rights movement = so-called Men's Rights Movement = pickup artists, pedophiles, mass murderers...

The writer feels you are either a feminist or a misogynist. He attacked foreign marriages because the wives are too submissive. Feminist immigration is just fine. Why not just have re-education camps? And for their husbands too, of course.
And this is just wrong.
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Old 12th March 2012, 01:54 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by epepke View Post
Talking about Men's Rights movement the way these people do is exactly like talking about Atheism in terms of Stalin and Mao and Hitler. Exactly, because of course, Hitler wasn't even an atheists.

Saying that it's mostly filled with crass misogynists is exactly like saying that feminism is mostly filled with clones of Andrea Dworkin.

As for the "sexist drivel that comes with those "skills"," which is really a swipe at the Seduction Community which is really another issue, there isn't any. I get annoyed with the Seduction Community people, too. But that's because I think they are stupid, and they only have a superficial understanding of something I have come to understand much better. In cultures like that of Italy and Greece and maybe France, when it is considered important to teach boys how to relate to women, the Seduction Community would be laughable.

But before you get mad at them, consider that they are the only people even trying in our sex-negative culture. If we had any sense, our culture would render it superfluous, and as an aside, get rid of that sexist and wooish drivel.

There is no sexism or woo in sexual socialization. It's in the way it comes to be taught, and the only reason people came up with that way of teaching is that is that nobody teaches it properly.
Ahahaha what? Out of all countries where the male population is supposedly on good terms with the female one, you pick Italy and Greece? Really?
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Old 12th March 2012, 05:07 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by epepke View Post
Talking about Men's Rights movement the way these people do is exactly like talking about Atheism in terms of Stalin and Mao and Hitler. Exactly, because of course, Hitler wasn't even an atheists.

Saying that it's mostly filled with crass misogynists is exactly like saying that feminism is mostly filled with clones of Andrea Dworkin.

As for the "sexist drivel that comes with those "skills"," which is really a swipe at the Seduction Community which is really another issue, there isn't any. I get annoyed with the Seduction Community people, too. But that's because I think they are stupid, and they only have a superficial understanding of something I have come to understand much better. In cultures like that of Italy and Greece and maybe France, when it is considered important to teach boys how to relate to women, the Seduction Community would be laughable.

But before you get mad at them, consider that they are the only people even trying in our sex-negative culture. If we had any sense, our culture would render it superfluous, and as an aside, get rid of that sexist and wooish drivel.

There is no sexism or woo in sexual socialization. It's in the way it comes to be taught, and the only reason people came up with that way of teaching is that is that nobody teaches it properly.
This implies that there needs to be a set of taught social skills that are specific in relating to the opposite gender. I think this is true up to a point (like if you're a boy, don't pull down a girls pants) but for the most part socialization is a general thing, and people learn how to relate to different individuals. The problem with so many of these types of groups or programs or whatever is they assume there is some universal code to sexual relations that applies to nearly every member of gender. That's just not true, and how people relate to each other, especially in the realm of sexual and romantic relationships, varies and is highly individual.
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Old 12th March 2012, 05:09 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Abdul Alhazred View Post
Wow. A whole nother sexist subculture Iíd never have heard of but for the internet.

The Southern Poverty Law Center notices the Menís Rights Movement
PZ Myers et al
Why does the SPLC hate men?
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Old 12th March 2012, 05:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Why does the SPLC hate men?
I guess this is sort of a tangent, but the SPLC infuriates me.
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Old 12th March 2012, 05:49 AM   #22
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Men's rights activism is extremely important, because there is a lot of misandry embedded in our culture, as well as in our law enforcement and court system, that needs to be addressed.

But just as feminist circles are often a breeding ground for distructive misandrist attitudes, so MRA sites give cover for a lot of misogyny.

I will take the SPLC seriously on this issue as soon as they add the feminist groups encouraging the death of all males to their list.
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Old 12th March 2012, 05:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Galteeth View Post
This implies that there needs to be a set of taught social skills that are specific in relating to the opposite gender. I think this is true up to a point (like if you're a boy, don't pull down a girls pants) but for the most part socialization is a general thing, and people learn how to relate to different individuals.
I very much disagree. Have you ever heard expression "men and women speak different languages"? As an Aspie, I have a certain amount of outside perspective, for as far as I was concerned at adolescence, BOTH men and women spoke (different) foreign languages. Both men and women used code words, unspoken assumptions, and non-verbal cues which were totally bizarre to me (like, men using insults as terms of endearment to each other? That's just insane).

Which does not mean I could not learn. I could and did. However, learning "men's language" got me at the time no discernible benefit, whereas learning "women's language" got me laid. Consequently I put far more effort into latter, and now at the age of 45 am much more comfortable communicating with women than with neurotypical men. But this an aside. My main point is, men and women DO communicate differently, yet it is something that CAN be taught -- but rarely is.
Quote:
The problem with so many of these types of groups or programs or whatever is they assume there is some universal code to sexual relations that applies to nearly every member of gender. That's just not true, and how people relate to each other, especially in the realm of sexual and romantic relationships, varies and is highly individual.
Not having any experience with "these types of groups or programs", I cannot judge. And if they really do assume some "universal code to sexual relations" then they really are barking up the wrong tree. But if these groups teach men how to understand women, then it is an entirely legitimate -- and underserved, -- pursuit.
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:16 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Naive1000 View Post
Why do you think the blathering of an idiot who knows sod-all about small-cell terrorist operations has any value in this discussion?
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
Men's rights activism is extremely important, because there is a lot of misandry embedded in our culture, as well as in our law enforcement and court system, that needs to be addressed.
Prove it.

Quote:
I will take the SPLC seriously on this issue as soon as they add the feminist groups encouraging the death of all males to their list.
Got any evidence that any exist this side of the line that rational humans do not cross?
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
Got any evidence that any exist this side of the line that rational humans do not cross?
True Scotsman fallacy. Everyone knows those people are crazy; it doesn't change the fact that they speak as feminists.
Characterizing a movement by its extreme members is generally inadviseable.
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Prove it.
It's well-documented that family courts overwhelmingly presume the mother to be the more fit parent in custody proceedings, and the police officers presume the husband to be the violant party in any DV call.

Convictions for violent crime are even more disproportionately male than they are disproportionately black.

Which of these do you dispute?
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:54 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mark6 View Post
(...)as far as I was concerned at adolescence, BOTH men and women spoke (different) foreign languages. Both men and women used code words, unspoken assumptions, and non-verbal cues which were totally bizarre to me (...) My main point is, men and women DO communicate differently, yet it is something that CAN be taught -- but rarely is.
Well.. sort of. The point you don't want to miss is that this divide itself is also (at least partly) taught. Girls who grow up steeped in boy culture don't get any automatic insight into the girl culture they haven't been paying attention to, and end up finding interacting with most women as mysterious as the typical male does. With the added fun of trying to figure out which women have recognised your lack of 'getting it' and are trying to help you and which women have recognised same and are enjoying tearing your outsider butt to shreds while you can't quite tell what they are even talking about.
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Old 12th March 2012, 07:15 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
It's well-documented that family courts overwhelmingly presume the mother to be the more fit parent in custody proceedings, and the police officers presume the husband to be the violant party in any DV call.
Based on statistical probability and typical case histories, they would be right.

Out of a hundred DV homicides, how many were committed by the wife? As for custody, I know a lot of men who get custody.

Quote:
Convictions for violent crime are even more disproportionately male than they are disproportionately black.

Which of these do you dispute?
I'm saying that your argument is non causa pro causa.
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Old 12th March 2012, 07:17 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
True Scotsman fallacy. Everyone knows those people are crazy; it doesn't change the fact that they speak as feminists.
Characterizing a movement by its extreme members is generally inadviseable.
But you suggested that you do not take SPLC seriously because they are not hunting down a conspiracy that exists only between your ears.
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Old 12th March 2012, 07:21 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
I will take the SPLC seriously on this issue as soon as they add the feminist groups encouraging the death of all males to their list.
I'm sure they will get around to that right after they add the Sasquatch Supremacist League.
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Old 12th March 2012, 09:01 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
Men's rights activism is extremely important, because there is a lot of misandry embedded in our culture, as well as in our law enforcement and court system, that needs to be addressed.

But just as feminist circles are often a breeding ground for distructive misandrist attitudes, so MRA sites give cover for a lot of misogyny.

I will take the SPLC seriously on this issue as soon as they add the feminist groups encouraging the death of all males to their list.
And as soon as those groups actually show evidence of existing in any effective manner... say by concerted action, or publication of some manifesto, they stand as good a chance of making the list as anyone else.

But you knew that, and were just hoping that no one would call you on it, right?
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Old 12th March 2012, 09:08 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
It's well-documented that family courts overwhelmingly presume the mother to be the more fit parent in custody proceedings, and the police officers presume the husband to be the violant party in any DV call.

Convictions for violent crime are even more disproportionately male than they are disproportionately black.

Which of these do you dispute?
It is well known that Milli Vanilli were great musicians too... what's your point?

In the real world, gender based presumption has been eroded by BIOTC tests, and the actual percentage of custody awarded to females can no longer all be automatically assumed to be due to bias.

As far as police bias, I suggest you actually go through a police academy and learn how incredibly ignorant that comment sounds when compared to what police are really thinking while going into a DV situation.
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Old 12th March 2012, 09:10 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Naive1000 View Post
Now, a proud member of the MRM.
fnarr fnarr
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Old 12th March 2012, 09:18 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
But you suggested that you do not take SPLC seriously because they are not hunting down a conspiracy that exists only between your ears.
I do not take the SPLC seriously because they color contrary movements with the "extremist" brush while ignoring/whitewashing the extremist views in movements they agree with.

Compare their treatment of the Tea Party with their treatment of Occupy Wall Street for an easy example.

Or, as I was attempting to point out in my earlier post, contrast their treatment of MRAs with their treatment of feminists.
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Old 12th March 2012, 09:20 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
I do not take the SPLC seriously because they color contrary movements with the "extremist" brush while ignoring/whitewashing the extremist views in movements they agree with.

Compare their treatment of the Tea Party with their treatment of Occupy Wall Street for an easy example.

Or, as I was attempting to point out in my earlier post, contrast their treatment of MRAs with their treatment of feminists.
So in this case, the extremist movement that wants to kill all men is what... battered women's shelters?
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Old 12th March 2012, 11:11 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Galteeth View Post
"The US is sex-obsessed"

The US is a filled with individuals and diverse cultures.


"The idea of consent is both overplayed and completely ignored/misunderstood."
Huh?

I'm interested in the ideas you're expressing, but I don't really understand alot of what you wrote. Could you clarify?
The USA, for all it's sexual liberalism still has a very wide puritanical streak. Both sexual liberalism and sexual puritanism focus on sex (although you're right, obsessed was too strong a word.) This causes a cultural cognitive dissonance - conflicting, opposite ideas which are presented as fact. And may very well be fact depending on where one is standing or they might a be reactionary response to this discomfort caused by this dissonance.

Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
Men's rights activism is extremely important, because there is a lot of misandry embedded in our culture, as well as in our law enforcement and court system, that needs to be addressed.

But just as feminist circles are often a breeding ground for distructive misandrist attitudes, so MRA sites give cover for a lot of misogyny.

I will take the SPLC seriously on this issue as soon as they add the feminist groups encouraging the death of all males to their list.
Please, give an example of a feminist group that is encouraging the death of men. I will be happy to send it to the SPLC and ask that they add it to their groups to be watched.

ETA: As a feminist, I am against harmful gender stereotypes because they are the greatest stumbling block to an egalitarian society. The bias of the court system is well documented and has been part of my focus for over 20 years for this very reason. The MRA's claim that feminists are perpetuating the stereotype of the non-nurturing male for their own ends.* This makes no sense.

*Because they apparently believe that the average amount of child support is enough to keep single mothers in mani/pedis and Cadillacs for life.
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Old 12th March 2012, 11:18 AM   #38
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On the SLPC:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...mist-groups-at

I am going to quote some things. See if you can spot the problem!


"The dramatic expansion of the radical right is the result of our country's changing racial demographics, the increased pace of globalization, and our economic woes,” said Mark Potok, senior fellow at the SPLC and editor of the new report.

“For many extremists, President Obama is the new symbol of all that's wrong with the country - the Kenyan president, the secret Muslim who is causing our country's decline,” Potok said. “The election season's overheated political rhetoric is adding fuel to the fire. The more polarized the political scene, the more people at the extremes.”


"The continuing tough economy appears to offer the best single explanation for the expansion of a major subset of the larger Patriot movement - antigovernment “sovereign citizens.” Sovereign citizens generally believe they are not obliged to follow most laws or comply with requirements for driver's licenses and vehicle registrations. They also typically believe that they don't have to pay taxes, that they can stop foreclosures with ease, and that with the right procedure they can extract millions from the government - all of which makes the movement especially attractive at a time of general economic hardship.

The FBI considers the sovereign movement dangerous enough that it issued a special bulletin to law enforcement officials last September describing it as “domestic terrorist,” and reported that six officers have been murdered by sovereigns since 2000....

The hate groups listed in this report include neo-Nazis, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, Klansmen and black separatists. "

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...-united-states

"Generally, Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the “New World Order,” engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing, or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines. Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist."
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Old 12th March 2012, 12:04 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by AvalonXQ View Post
It's well-documented that family courts overwhelmingly presume the mother to be the more fit parent in custody proceedings, and the police officers presume the husband to be the violant party in any DV call.

Convictions for violent crime are even more disproportionately male than they are disproportionately black.
Do the assumptions differ from what is actual fact? If so, how much?
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Old 12th March 2012, 12:15 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Moss View Post
Do the assumptions differ from what is actual fact? If so, how much?
I find it interesting that this is the first reaction. That is, sexism is so engrained in society, particularly the "violent husband" and "deadbeat dad" memes, that the first question isn't "Why are we treating men this way", but rather "doesn't the evidence support our decision to treat men this way?"
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