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Old 8th April 2012, 08:14 AM   #121
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Beanbag View Post
Feature-length adventure film.

Logline (one-line summary of the story): Life becomes interesting (and complicated) in a quiet neighborhood when an occult group moves in next door and attempts to summon a demon in their back yard.

Beanbag
That's a great plot line. I can see how you might be concerned that directing and screenplay writing are two different skills. If it's a really low budget film like Blair Witch I could understand it, but I'm surprised producers wouldn't want you to co-direct or something.

BTW, I mention Blair Witch because it was a success, not because it was particularly good. (I liked the plot but hated the casting where a lot of the ad lib dialog came from that was dreadfully awful.) Rather, like we are talking about good writers going the route of low-budget publishing, I think a low budget production doesn't mean the story and screenplay are not also excellent. I know there are better examples out there I just didn't know any off the top of my head.

Of course, maybe you are a better director than you are giving yourself credit for and the producers can see that.


Anyway, it's great either way. I'm happy for you.

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Old 8th April 2012, 05:59 PM   #122
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It's not that I'm having doubts about my directorial skills -- I'm a DAMNED good director. The problem is that a director needs emotional distance from the material he is directing. As a screenwriter, I've already invested YEARS of time in the screenplay (yes, YEARS: I think I started this particular screenplay in late 2005, and finally got the copyright registered in 2009). My worry is that I've got too much attachment to the material and won't be able to cut or rewrite sections that don't work. The audience doesn't care about how hard it was to write -- they just want a good story.

It's also a little frightening and irritating when you actually cast a part. A good actor brings their own interpretation to a character, and a GREAT actor will absolutely make a part their own. The character's not quite how you wrote it any more. A director without the emotional investment of the author can evaluate the actor's take on the part without a deep-rooted previous impression. Sometimes I can do that with my work; other times, it HURTS.

A similar case exists for post-production and editing. The director is the WORST person to do the initial rough cut. The best thing to do is hand the raw footage, a copy of the script, and the script supervisor's notes to the editor AND LEAVE THEM ALONE to do the first cut. It's also better that the editor DOES NOT attend the shooting sessions. Why? Because you want them to see ONLY the material they have to work with. The audience doesn't care how hard it was to shoot that scene, nor will they know the cute little anecdotes about what went on that particular day. They only care if it advances the story. They're not interested in the fact that you shot that beach scene in 40 degree weather with the camera crew standing knee-deep in stagnant water to get the right angle -- things which might make a director reluctant to cut that footage if it isn't quite good enough because it was so damned hard to get. You need to look at it and ask, does it work? And if it don't, then you have to cut it remorselessly. Even if you spent days and weeks shedding blood on the keyboard to get that one passage written.

Film-making is brutal -- you have to mangle your baby.

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Old 8th April 2012, 06:55 PM   #123
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Beanbag, I can't possibly know what you already know.

But my gut reaction is, if you are a damned good director, just go for it. The rest of the problems can be solved in other ways.

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Old 9th April 2012, 02:14 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Curious about people's opinions:

Should I call my 17-19 yr olds boys/girls or men/women? Or should I make an effort to let the reader put their own image to the characters and use more neutral words like guys?

I think you've already been given some good answers, but I think context matters enormously, so it depends on the perspective and the society you're representing.

Even from country to country in our modern world, it varies enormously, let alone from era to era.

One word I make extensive use of is "youth", which might also be useful for people in the "in between".
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Old 9th April 2012, 06:31 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
A couple of books on the London Underground, the most advanced being one about its appearance or use in films and television (drama & comedy, not documentary). I have consequently been watching too many really bad romantic comedies lately....
Excellent, that sounds interesting. How about one on the Underground in literature?
If you have a couple of spare years............

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I'm working on a cookbook. The working title is "Outrageously Difficult, Time Consuming Recipes You Can Attempt at Home". I expect this will serve a niche market.
'Cooking for Cats'?

Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
The Hunger Games - Battle Royale parallel isn't actually merited, in my opinion. Not only is the execution different, but the actual premise is significantly different. In a very superficial way the premise is the same - a bunch of young people fight to the death - but otherwise there's really no similarity. Most importantly; "The Hunger Games" depicts a contest which is open, which society actively takes part in, and which is watched for entertainment. "Battle Royale" depicts a contest which is secret, which society knows very little about, and which is being conducted by the military for research.

Perhaps more relevant; the source for "The Hunger Games" is known, and it predates "Battle Royale" by several thousand years; it's based on the myth of Theseus and the Minotaur.
I thought the premise for Battle Royale was some sort of social control thing, to keep the teens in line? Though it's been a year years since I read the book.

It surprises me how few people notice the relationship between The Hunger Games and the Minotaur legend.
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Old 9th April 2012, 10:24 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
...

It surprises me how few people notice the relationship between The Hunger Games and the Minotaur legend.
My guess is it's because we all remember the labyrinth and the dangerous animal in it. It overpowers the rest of the story which then becomes background noise in our brains.
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Old 9th April 2012, 02:58 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
I thought the premise for Battle Royale was some sort of social control thing, to keep the teens in line? Though it's been a year years since I read the book.
The teens don't even know about it until they get drugged on their bus and turn up at an army base.

That's really the difference.

The Hunger Games makes the picking of names a ritual, and by offering up extra food for putting children's names in multiple times, they make the people complicit in the entire process, and then make them watch as well. So it's very effective as a form of social control.

The children in Battle Royale are abducted and simply disappear.
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Old 9th April 2012, 03:07 PM   #128
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I tell my wife that "I'm working on my novel", which has become sort of a joke. Someday, I'll let her in on the fact that I have been working on a novel. I've got about 100 pages, in desperate need of polish.

It's kind of a hard-science/alternative-history. Working title is "Nurikabe".
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Old 9th April 2012, 04:23 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by phildonnia View Post
I tell my wife that "I'm working on my novel", which has become sort of a joke. Someday, I'll let her in on the fact that I have been working on a novel. I've got about 100 pages, in desperate need of polish....
I thought for sure you were going with, "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" here.
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Old 10th April 2012, 01:49 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
My guess is it's because we all remember the labyrinth and the dangerous animal in it. It overpowers the rest of the story which then becomes background noise in our brains.
They didn't watch The Horns of Nimon then...........
Another Minotaur knock-off, with Lalla Ward.

Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
The teens don't even know about it until they get drugged on their bus and turn up at an army base.

That's really the difference.

The Hunger Games makes the picking of names a ritual, and by offering up extra food for putting children's names in multiple times, they make the people complicit in the entire process, and then make them watch as well. So it's very effective as a form of social control.

The children in Battle Royale are abducted and simply disappear.
Ah, thanks. It's been quite a few years since I read the book, I though the programme was publoically know.
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Old 10th April 2012, 10:18 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
...., I though the programme was publoically know.
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Old 10th April 2012, 11:02 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well it's been a while since I read the book, but I thought the Battle Royale programme was known to the protagonists before they were selected, part of the totalitarian state's social control mechanism.

OK obviously a re-read is in order when I've slimmed down my current pile.
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Old 10th April 2012, 11:23 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
Well it's been a while since I read the book, but I thought the Battle Royale programme was known to the protagonists before they were selected, part of the totalitarian state's social control mechanism.

OK obviously a re-read is in order when I've slimmed down my current pile.
I wasn't commenting on the book. I have no idea what, "I though the programme was publoically know," means.
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Old 10th April 2012, 01:09 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I wasn't commenting on the book. I have no idea what, "I though the programme was publoically know," means.
But "publoically" is an awesome word...

I think it's something like "I sing the body electric" - with the same intonation: "I though the programme was publoically know"...
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Old 10th April 2012, 01:19 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Tiktaalik View Post
But "publoically" is an awesome word...

I think it's something like "I sing the body electric" - with the same intonation: "I though the programme was publoically know"...
--
Quote:
‘publoically’ has been looked up 0 times, and is not a valid Scrabble word.
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Old 10th April 2012, 04:43 PM   #136
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I made another major change that fixed a problem and I'm pleased.

Now I'm working on trying to project some current events into a future scenario that people will get emotionally into in the story. The problem is these are significant current events that people are very apathetic about now. I think I know what is needed. Pulling it off is another story.

And I have to be careful to set my protagonist folk hero apart from the recent protagonist symbol for the revolution in the Hunger Games. My protagonist is much more involved as opposed to being a symbol because of her actions but that others choose and manipulate. The Hunger Games (nothing remotely close to the story in my book) is too recent. I wouldn't want people to see a redundant character in my story.
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Old 11th April 2012, 03:04 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I wasn't commenting on the book. I have no idea what, "I though the programme was publoically know," means.
Originally Posted by Tiktaalik View Post
But "publoically" is an awesome word...

I think it's something like "I sing the body electric" - with the same intonation: "I though the programme was publoically know"...
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
--

OK then...........
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Old 11th April 2012, 06:29 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post

OK then...........
Sorry, CM, no offense...it just struck a funny chord. We all make typos when we're posting; I'm especially bad with a laptop keyboard.
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Old 11th April 2012, 07:27 AM   #139
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It seems like most of the people here are talking about writing fiction. How about the non-fiction? It's a totally different set of skills.
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Old 11th April 2012, 10:01 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I think that's very clever. Most cookbooks are the 'wonderful dishes you can make in 30 minutes' types.
Thanks, I wish more publishers thought that. This will surprise you, but there's not a huge market for cookbooks that assume you want to make your own demiglase.
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Old 11th April 2012, 10:20 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Thanks, I wish more publishers thought that. This will surprise you, but there's not a huge market for cookbooks that assume you want to make your own demiglase.
That's one of the very good things about E-Publishing: low up front costs and widespread access means you can sell to a niche market.
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Old 11th April 2012, 10:27 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
Quote:
...The children in Battle Royale are abducted and simply disappear.
Ah, thanks. It's been quite a few years since I read the book, I though the programme was publoically know.
I hate to belabor this but I think I get it now. Tell me if I'm right or still lost in typospace.

In Battle Royale the public doesn't know about the program so Catsmate1 said "I thought the program [American sp] was publicly known".

It seems so simple but I have to say it only now makes sense to me.

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Old 11th April 2012, 10:36 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
It seems like most of the people here are talking about writing fiction. How about the non-fiction? It's a totally different set of skills.
I keep the telly on CSPAN's BookTV every weekend. They have authors speaking about their non-fiction works and I love it.

There are some of the topics that have to have mind bogglingly tiny niche interests. I chuckle when someone in the audience inevitably asks, "How did you pick your subject?"
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Old 11th April 2012, 11:41 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
It seems like most of the people here are talking about writing fiction. How about the non-fiction? It's a totally different set of skills.
I also write non-fiction and have had four non-fic stories published in various anthologies. I only write non-fic shorts, but write fiction novels as well as fiction shorts. Not sure why it seems to work out that way. One of my non-fic shorts (previously published) and two fictionalized non-fic shorts are also up on KDP as singles.

I agree it's different. You almost have to become not-you in order to see the whole picture. And you have to leave out a whopping huge amount of details that you know but aren't really relevant to the story. In fact, the general impression of the story may come out to be less than the precise truth due to having to adjust some of those details. Non-fic is never totally non-fic, I don't think...
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Old 11th April 2012, 11:56 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Tiktaalik View Post
Sorry, CM, no offense...it just struck a funny chord. We all make typos when we're posting; I'm especially bad with a laptop keyboard.
Don't worry, I've done it myself.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I hate to belabor this but I think I get it now. Tell me if I'm right or still lost in typospace.

In Battle Royale the public doesn't know about the program so Catsmate1 said "I thought the program [American sp] was publicly known".

It seems so simple but I have to say it only now makes sense to me.
Yep. I read the book years ago and I came away thinking that the kids (and everyone else) knew about the BR programme [proper spelling].


OK now I'm off to have my notebook exorcised for typo fairies.
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Old 13th April 2012, 11:58 PM   #146
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I haven't made a whole bunch of progress lately, but I did write a new blog entry today, this one exploring the widespread use of the trilogy in the fantasy genre.

You can check it out here. (Yeah, I'll have a proper blog up soon, but this does the job for now...)
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Old 14th April 2012, 10:42 AM   #147
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Four's good.

Mine's part one and part two. Not a trilogy but two interlinked while still independent stories.

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Old 14th April 2012, 05:16 PM   #148
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...

um.
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Old 14th April 2012, 05:22 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
Just finished _The Quiet American_ -- Graham Greene

and dove right into _A Burnt Out Case_.

I'm so happy to have discovered a new writer I love. I intend to read everything he wrote, one book after another. Middle aged world-weariness, with some pale green things coming up through the cracks in the pavement, with exotic locations and just enough excitement to keep things interesting.
Ahem, I think you're in the wrong thread. Reading and writing can look the same if the rest of the sentence is the same and you're skimming too fast.
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Old 14th April 2012, 05:32 PM   #150
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Indeed. btw, you were right about Franco Garcia. In the reservoir. (Also the wrong thread.)
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Old 24th April 2012, 11:59 AM   #151
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How Do You Know? One Man Tries to Understand Faith.



That's the title.

Through interviews, I try to crack the nut and understand how and why people have faith in God.

I just got back from my first meeting with a local publisher and she said, "I'm intrigued and can't wait to start reading it"

That's good, right?
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Old 24th April 2012, 12:23 PM   #152
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That depends. Is she religious ;-)
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Old 24th April 2012, 04:10 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
That depends. Is she religious ;-)
No, she isn't.

We talked about what and if she believes.
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Old 24th April 2012, 08:53 PM   #154
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I love to write and write little scenes all the time. I have trouble focusing on one story. My main effort is Three Men in a Tub, about a group of aliens who (quite incorrectly) decide to pick up 3 men and 30 women to help colonize a planet. One man seizes on the opportunity and picks 10 models, one wants to escape and picks 10 very intelligent women, and one picks his fiance, and not wanting her to be uneasy, picks 9 other rather unattractive women. There is a deep plot about an alien conspiracy on top of another conspiracy but the main jist of the story is about the three groups of women, and how they polarize and interact/conflict with each other. And, of course, it's all played for laughs.

I'm also writing a book geared towards kids about 5 camels trying to make it to Cairo. Well, 4 camels and a horse who thinks he's a camel.

Opposite the funny pages I'm writing a horror story about a castle in Europe where some survivors of gruesome nazi experiments are still alive, due to the success of the experiments forced on them. The castle also contains an ancient nuclear weapon and the secret to the success of the VW Beetle.

Fishbowl is about a South American drug lord who tries to take over a nuclear power plant but gets sidetracked and obsessed with a gaurd who locked himself inside a bullet proof room and refuses to come out.

I also wrote a book, yet unpublished, about two cousins who find a picture from the 1930's of their great grandfather with an alien. According to their grandmother's diary the alien was buried in a secret place when it died and if they can find it they'll have proof that aliens visited our planet.

A modern airman finds his own remains in an ancient Egyptian tomb.

A man, a talking bear, and an animated skeleton must cross the country to find a cave full of gold.

A man keeps meeting different versions of himself as he breaks up with his girlfriend. Turns out he eventually invents a time machine and is trying to prevent a chaotic outbreak, but each attempt goes wrong so he keeps coming back until there are dozens of him trying to figure out what to do.

A guy gets knocked out and his dreams try to keep him unconcious so they can survive.

And about a dozen more. Twice I've seen my ideas come to life by someone else. I once started a story about a white blood cell trying to save it's human, back in the 80's, very similar to Osmosis Jones, and I outlined a comedy where an astronaut gets stranded on an inhabited planet, which Planet 51 came so close to that I can no longer pursue that idea. I need to focus! Focus!
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Old 24th April 2012, 09:10 PM   #155
Skeptic Ginger
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There's something about those crazy ideas that is oddly promising. You should go for it.
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Old 24th April 2012, 09:13 PM   #156
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I'm re-writing a scene right now and I sound like a broken record but every time I get a better idea for a scene I just get more excited about this book. I'm excited tonight.
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Old 24th April 2012, 11:45 PM   #157
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Most my projects seem to go nowhere.

My latest experiment is a paranormal romance with the villains inspired by Lovecraft, and the male love interest an angel, outcast from heaven during the Satanic Uprising for being part of a faction who wants to neither serve humanity nor enslave them (so were abstainers?). He has to help his new found love fight evil while dodging the Seraphim angels sent to imprison the fugitives in hell.


It truly is exactly as awful as it sounds, but is fun to write.
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Old 25th April 2012, 08:36 AM   #158
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
Most my projects seem to go nowhere.

My latest experiment is a paranormal romance with the villains inspired by Lovecraft, and the male love interest an angel, outcast from heaven during the Satanic Uprising for being part of a faction who wants to neither serve humanity nor enslave them (so were abstainers?). He has to help his new found love fight evil while dodging the Seraphim angels sent to imprison the fugitives in hell.


It truly is exactly as awful as it sounds, but is fun to write.
That sounds like a great plot. I'm serious.

My original story has the same overall framework but I've changed dozens of elements as I rework the story and research the elements I want the story to contain. For example one of the two protagonists (two part story with a different protagonist in each part) is captured by some bad guys. I changed it so that now she is picked up by preserve rangers looking for poachers ending up in the hands of the bad guys after a bit more of the story unfolds. It gave me more room to describe the social situation and made more sense how things happened.

In another part of the story I had a release of information putting pressure on people to act. My latest change was making that, hiring a lawyer and a private investigator, instead of just the pressure of some uncomfortable information.

That resulted in a change in a later reunion between two lovers so I'm now reworking that scene. Changes have cascading effects.

If there's something about your stories you don't like, have you thought about just reworking parts of them instead of giving up on them?
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Old 25th April 2012, 10:36 AM   #159
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I've just discovered the wonders and delights of this thread. I've especially appreciated/been educated by the e-book-vs.-traditional-pub discussion of the first two pages. Thanks to all for a very informative series of points and counter-points.

I'm currently shopping around a Gothic Horror-Adventure novel complete at 81,000 words. I've submitted queries (and the occasional synopsis, and the even-more-occasional sample chapter/s) to 12 agents so far.

Of these, I've received six rejections. I actually get a little thrill from each rejection, because at least I know someone has actually been reading it. And I fantasize that when the book finally is published, those who rejected me will be kicking themselves for not jumping on the opportunity.

The novel is something of an interlude to Dracula, and concerns an idea that has been hanging, unanswered, in the aether since Stoker first published in 1897. The writing style is late Victorian, the setting a certain haunted fortress in the Carpathians.

I expect it to be published within the year. It's called Escape from Castle Dracula.
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Old 25th April 2012, 11:35 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
I've just discovered the wonders and delights of this thread. I've especially appreciated/been educated by the e-book-vs.-traditional-pub discussion of the first two pages. Thanks to all for a very informative series of points and counter-points.

I'm currently shopping around a Gothic Horror-Adventure novel complete at 81,000 words. I've submitted queries (and the occasional synopsis, and the even-more-occasional sample chapter/s) to 12 agents so far.

Of these, I've received six rejections. I actually get a little thrill from each rejection, because at least I know someone has actually been reading it. And I fantasize that when the book finally is published, those who rejected me will be kicking themselves for not jumping on the opportunity.

The novel is something of an interlude to Dracula, and concerns an idea that has been hanging, unanswered, in the aether since Stoker first published in 1897. The writing style is late Victorian, the setting a certain haunted fortress in the Carpathians.

I expect it to be published within the year. It's called Escape from Castle Dracula.
Reminds me of another work in progress I have called The Early Adventures of Jesus of Nazereth where he learns tricks from the people he meets on the road such as how to turn water into wine, how to clear someone's eyes, etc. clearing the way for him to perform these "miracles" in his later years. Kinda modeled on the old Kevin Sorbo "Hercules" series.
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