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Tags general discussion , holocaust , holocaust denial

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Old 29th March 2012, 06:49 PM   #1
SnakeTongue
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General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

Mod InfoAs the original Holocaust Denial thread has reached over 10,000 posts, it has been closed and this new thread has been opened. This is to reduce the workload for our Forum software. I have moved the last three pages of discussion here for the sake of continuity. However, the exact first post below is a random artifact of page breaks. It has no other significance. Feel free to return to the first thread to quote anything you would like.

Read Part I here.

As always, all Holocaust-related conversation should be confined to this thread. Thank you.
Posted By:Loss Leader






Originally Posted by TSR View Post
Tell me -- why was the young lady in my avatar arrested by the Nazis in the Netherlands and shipped back to Germany, where she died? What about the close to 500k Hungarian Jews who can be documented as having been sent to Auschwitz, with no documentation of their ever going anywhere else? What about the traces of Cyanide found in the rooms testified to have been used as gas chambers -- and the lack of those traces elsewhere in the camps? What about all of those Nazis who testified to knowing about the extermination -- whose only defense was either "but I didn't participate" or "I was just following orders"?
Stop with the tales and provide reliable evidence.

I am not here to read tales about a picture of your avatar.
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Last edited by Loss Leader; 10th April 2012 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 29th March 2012, 06:53 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
It's not biased. You simply have no clue what you're actually talking about.
Really?

But you have, right?

You type like a fanatical priest telling his followers that they cannot interpret the bible.

Let me tell you something: discernment is not just reserved to you, but granted by nature to any human mind willing to learn.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
I'm going to go for the Randi Challenge, and right here and now predict that every document which shows that the Holocaust actually happened will miraculously, under SnakeTongue's "analysis", turn out to have been forged. And, even more miraculously, his "analyses" will end up being remarkably similar to "analyses" that other deniers have already written.
I dispense your arrogance.
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Last edited by SnakeTongue; 29th March 2012 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:04 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
I asked you to show me an accusation of extermination of millions of political prisoners by gas. You didn't. You still haven't.

No, I am not. I am asking that you - yawn - show me a claim made that millions of political prisoners were put to death by the Nazis using gas. You didn't. You still haven't.

Nor am I. I am asking about your lie. That the original claim was millions of political prisoners put to death by means of gas. As you wrote: Who made this claim? Show us an example. Where someone wrote or spoke about millions of political prisoners put to death in gas chambers. You didn't. You still haven't.

It was the Nazis who gave the Jews special treatment. But we are talking about a claim you say was made: that millions of political prisoners - your term - were killed by gas. Historians argue instead that over 2 million Jews were put to death in gas chambers. Not political prisoners. They also argue, for example, that millions of Soviet POWs were killed by the Germans - but not in gas chambers.

By the way, the manner in which you are hopping around gives away your confusion. At this point you seem not even to know what you wrote.

Of course there were. But concentration camps were not death camps, although prisoners were often killed in them. Auschwitz was such a prison camp for Polish political prisoners, for example, before it was a death camp. That isn't what we were discussing, though, was it? It was your statement that someone has claimed that the German gassed millions of political prisoners.

Leaving aside that we are talking about a state, the Reich, not simply a poltiical party, that depends on who these prisoners were. If they were Jews, I would call them Jews. If they were Jehovah's Witnesses, I would call them Jehovah's Witnesses. If they were Catholics, I would call them Catholics. If they were Sinti and Roma, I would call them Sinti and Roma. If they were so-called asocials, I would call them asocials. If they were political opponents of the state, or thought to be so, like Communists, Socialists, or liberals, I would call them political prisoners.

Political prisoner is a specific term, with a specific meaning - not whatever you happen to define it as. That aside, you said others made this claim - that the Germans gassed millions of, specifically, political prisoners. You can't demonstrate where this was supposedly claimed, can you? Instead, you think squirming and wriggling and making up new meanings for words will excuse your lie.

You are very bad at this, Bob.

By gas? As you first said?

Really, give it up. You lied. You were caught.
I am also really sorry for your have wasted your time typing all the above...

Your effort to divert the subject from my original enquires to my personal claims is USELESS!

WHATEVER I LIED OR NOT FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW, YOU DID NOT PROVIDED ONE SINGLE PRIMARY EVIDENCE WHICH PROVE THE SO CALLED MASS EXTERMINATIONS OF JEWS HAPPENED!

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT HERE:

JREF Forum » General Topics » Conspiracy Theories » [Merged] General Holocaust denial discussion thread
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:05 PM   #4
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You dispense something, but it's not arrogance.
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
I am also really sorry for your have wasted your time typing all the above...

Your effort to divert the subject from my original enquires to my personal claims is USELESS!

WHATEVER I LIED OR NOT FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW, YOU DID NOT PROVIDED ONE SINGLE PRIMARY EVIDENCE WHICH PROVE THE SO CALLED MASS EXTERMINATIONS OF JEWS HAPPENED!

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT HERE:

JREF Forum » General Topics » Conspiracy Theories » [Merged] General Holocaust denial discussion thread
This post is evidence that my signature is absolutely true
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:09 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by LogicFail View Post
The retarded thing about this is that we have the nazi's themselves admitting the holocaust occurred under oath. They never denied it at all. Rather they tried to push the blame around and deny personal responsibility.

The people who did it don't deny it. The people who survived it don't deny it. The people who lived in the nearby villages don't deny it.

Only anti-semitic historical revisionists trying to run some sort of misguided Public Relations end around on behalf of a Nazi party that doesn't exist anymore deny it.

it's like believing God exists yet choosing to be a Satanist. It's dumb.


all the evidence you would ever need is here : http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10007147

but you won't read it, and if you do you will hand wave it all away......
Revisionists do not believe in tales told by people, as well forced confessions in war trials which the accused have no right to defence.

Revisionism is scientific analysis, something you should get grasp with it.
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:13 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Actually, SnakeTongue, I have a couple of questions about your "analysis" (or should that be "your" analysis?).

For instance, why is the "incomplete" date an indication of forgery to you? If the forgers were creating the document from whole cloth, why do you think they able to type out "26. März", the whole month and day, but only the last part of the year? Was their typewriter broken and missing the "1", "9", and "4" keys (which actually can't be the case, since the number "14" appears elsewhere in the document)?

If the forgers weren't creating a document from scratch (which you imply, but more on that in a bit), why would they be able to keep the year, but need to alter (or conceal) the decade? There's literally no other year ending in the number 2 besides "1942" that an altered original could have on it. 1932 was before Hitler even took power, and 1952 was long after the war ended.

Second, you say "Sending office code in the top right corner is not complete", because it's only "II D", and not "II D 3" (presumably, since you only have one question mark to represent the character you believe is missing, and that's what Alvarez thinks it's supposed to be). However, at the Czech site you cite as authoritative when it comes to Pradel's correct rank, it lists "II D 3" as Pradel's office (specifically, "II D 3 a" - "II D 3 b" was the Kraftfahrwesen des Sicherheitsdienst, headed by SS-Hauptsturmführer Gast and SS-Untersturmführer Heinrich), while Rauff's own office, being the overall commanding unit, is just "II D". Since the document is being sent by Rauff, not Pradel (it just mentions Pradel), why is it surprising to you that Rauff's office of "II D" is listed as the sending office instead of Pradel's office of "II D 3" (or "II D 3 a")? Especially when the document gets Pradel's own office of "II D 3 a" correct in the paragraph where it mentions his name?

As for the implications of an altered original, you say:

Why would the forgers need to alter an existing document to link Pradel with Rauff? It was well known and well documented (even at that Czech website you cited) that Pradel was Rauff's subordinate in the RSHA. Of all the things a potential forger would need to manufacture, a link between those two men was not one of them!

But if Paragraph 2 was a forged addition, and it wasn't needed to show that Pradel and Rauff were connected, why was it added to the "altered" original? It contains literally nothing incriminating...all the really incriminating stuff (the first mention of "Sonderwagen", the mention of the Mauthausen concentration camp that the "Sonderwagen" is for, the bottles of carbon monoxide) are in the non-"crooked" paragraphs.

If only the "crooked" paragraph was added by the forgers, why did they bother? If all the paragraphs are forgeries, then why is one crooked in the first place?

And how could the forgers be simultaneously so sloppy as to forget to type "194" before "2" in their document and get Pradel's rank wrong...and also so insidious and influential as to get Dr. August Becker himself to give a statement saying that Pradel's rank matched the erroneous rank on the forged document?
WOW!

AGAIN!

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!

Stop to divert the subject!

I am not going to follow a discussion about an already proven fraud.
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SanityGap View Post
It's your picture you posted, you show it is what you claim.
I am glad you had enjoyed it.
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:32 PM   #9
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Why yes it is

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The Holocaust Denier Thread, you will not find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by SanityGap View Post
Standard denier tactic.
Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
I was pegging SnakeTongue as Bob, but maybe not. If so, however, the withering is even more pronounced. That said, I think you're spot on. They come out of wherever they pick this stuff up full of bravado and confusion, and then many of them go silent rather quickly. They have nothing going for them and relying on old classics lands them in heaps of trouble.
Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Man, in the span of a week, you have gone from "Himmler? Who is he?" to knowing what stances typically come up in arguments about whether or not the Holocaust happened! How did you do it, man?? Are you jacked into the Matrix, or something??

Or maybe less than honest about why you are here?
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
I went over to the Skeptics Society forum to have a look, and they do share some remarkable similarities, don't they? Right down to the same innocuous "Can someone give me some proof?" first post, the same refusal to accept books or articles, and the same in-depth knowledge of all the denier canards found on denier websites.
WOW!

WOW!

WOW!

Every post I got more surprises!

YOU MORE CONCERNED IN TRY TO LOOK FOR FLAWS IN MY PERSONAL BELIEFS RATHER THAN PROVIDE THE PRIMARY EVIDENCE I ASKED DAYS AGO!

THAT ONLY PROVES YOU CAN ONLY TREAT THIS SUBJECT AS RELIGIOUS MATTER.
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by LogicFail View Post
This post is evidence that my signature is absolutely true
Right!

You signature proves the mass extermination of six millions Jews!

OH YEAH!

KEEP DREAMING!
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
What a waste of time.
Tell me about it.

Quote:
I am sorry for you have wasted your time typing all that above, but because someone already noticed what I noticed do not mean the fraud is not a fraud.
No, your complete and utter failure at even pretending to know what you're talking about means that the "fraud" is not a fraud.

Quote:
By the other way around: only proves that two independent analysis come to a similar conclusion.
You didn't do any kind of "independent analysis", though. You cut and pasted someone else's (wrong) analysis, without even knowing what the stuff you were copying meant.

Which is why you're now desperately avoiding answering my questions, which would otherwise be easy and simple for you to answer if your "analysis" was anywhere near what you purported it to be.

Quote:
WHO IS THE DENIER NOW?
Still you.

Quote:
I stand with my analysis. That document is not credible!

I WILL NOT FOLLOW YOUR SUBJECTIVE EFFORT TO DIVERT THE INITIAL SUBJECT.
You don't want me divert the discussion about the document by talking about your analysis of the document? That doesn't say a whole lot for your confidence in your own conclusions regarding the document, SnakeTongue.

So...back to your analysis.



What, according to you, should be in the space you marked with the question mark in the circle on the left, SnakeTongue? What is missing from the office code that makes it "incomplete"? What would a "correct" office code from Walter Rauff's RSHA Amt II D look like, and where can I see an example of this "correct" code being used on a contemporary document that you accept as genuine?

Once you answer that, we can move on to the next question.
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Last edited by A'isha; 29th March 2012 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 29th March 2012, 07:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
Really?
Really.

Quote:
But you have, right?
Yep.

Quote:
You type like a fanatical priest telling his followers that they cannot interpret the bible.
Actually, I'm typing like an elementary school teacher telling a child that they don't even know how to read.

Quote:
Let me tell you something: discernment is not just reserved to you, but granted by nature to any human mind willing to learn.
I agree. Your problem is that you aren't living up to the "willing to learn" part.

Quote:
I dispense your arrogance.
You're certainly dispensing enough arrogance for both of us.
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Old 29th March 2012, 08:01 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Tell me about it.



No, your complete and utter failure at even pretending to know what you're talking about means that the "fraud" is not a fraud.



You didn't do any kind of "independent analysis", though. You cut and pasted someone else's (wrong) analysis, without even knowing what the stuff you were copying meant.

Which is why you're now desperately avoiding answering my questions, which would otherwise be easy and simple for you to answer if your "analysis" was anywhere near what you purported it to be.



Still you.



You don't want me divert the discussion about the document by talking about your analysis of the document? That doesn't say a whole lot for your confidence in your own conclusions regarding the document, SnakeTongue.

So...back to your analysis.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4394/sample1m.jpg

What, according to you, should be in the space you marked with the question mark in the circle on the left, SnakeTongue? What is missing from the office code that makes it "incomplete"? What would a "correct" office code from Walter Rauff's RSHA Amt II D look like, and where can I see an example of this "correct" code being used on a contemporary document that you accept as genuine?

Once you answer that, we can move on to the next question.
You cannot read? I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN: THE DOCUMENT IS A PROVEN FRAUD! WHATEVER YOU SAY YOU CANNOT CHANGE THAT.

I AM NOT GOING TO DEBATE A PROVEN FRAUD WHOSE TEXT DO NOT EVEN ADDRESS THE SUPPOSED MASS EXTERMINATION PLAN!
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Old 29th March 2012, 08:06 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Really.

Yep.

Actually, I'm typing like an elementary school teacher telling a child that they don't even know how to read.

I agree. Your problem is that you aren't living up to the "willing to learn" part.

You're certainly dispensing enough arrogance for both of us.
You are bit insistent, Miss elementary teacher.

Look the homework I did for you:

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Old 29th March 2012, 08:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
You cannot read? I WILL TELL YOU AGAIN: THE DOCUMENT IS A PROVEN FRAUD! WHATEVER YOU SAY YOU CANNOT CHANGE THAT.
If one of the reasons you think it's a "proven fraud" is because you claim the office code is incomplete, then you should easily be able to explain just how you know the office code is incomplete, tell us what's missing in the office code that would make it complete, and be able to show us (or provide a reference to) an example of a document that has this complete office code.

Why can't you do that, SnakeTongue?
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Old 29th March 2012, 08:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
You are bit insistent, Miss elementary teacher.
Sometimes it's the only way to get the student to learn.

Quote:
Your homework is incomplete. There are plenty of images showing both the emaciated survivors and the corpses at the death camps, taken both before and after the camps' liberation, so go back and fill in the blank where the question mark is.

And while you're at it, please provide the forensic and documentary proof that the person shown in the Dresden section was actually killed at Dresden by Allied bombing, and that the child shown in the Hiroshima section was actually injured in Hiroshima by the atomic bomb.

Because I know you'll ask for that same proof regarding the images of Nazi death camp victims.
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Old 29th March 2012, 08:19 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Snaketongue and the most recent denier who joined the Skeptic Society's anti-holocaust denial forum are both non-english speakers. I had incorrectly thought that there may be a last ditch spurt of junior holocaust english speaking deniers, reacting to Caroline Coll's Treblinka investigations. This didn't seem to happen. If anything the trickle of new deniers has simply reduced to a drip. I'm now guessing that, like any withering cult, the last vestiges of the cult is found in obscure niches, in non-english and non-german speaking areas around the world. They read CODOH and think "this is easy" not realising CODOH is a propaganda site for rich holocaust authors to make money selling books to the naive.

Bradley Smith seeks donations to keep his operation going and for him to place pro-holocaust denial adverts in campus newspapers. No accounting is offered as to how the money is spent or if expenses match donations. It is a much smaller version of the Bakker's PTL scam. He says he needs to raise $100 for an advert. $300 is donated. He pay $100 for the advert and pockets the rest and then launches another donation appeal.

Holocaust denier, David Duke has already been to gaol once for doing this scam concerning presidential campaign donations. David Irving probably recanted with an eye on future publishing revenue. It is all about a handful of deniers making money of naive individuals. History has nothing to do with holocaust denial. This is why Clayton Moore is so amusing as he attacks the normal media for doing something his cult's "media" specifically does.
Something like this Internet Page?

Quote:
Donations

This Internet site is maintained by The Holocaust History Project,Inc. The Holocaust History Project, Inc. is a not for profit corporation organized under the laws of the state of Texas and is recognized by the U.S. government as a tax-exempt educational organization under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. All contributions received from residents of the United States are tax deductible to the extent permitted by law. The Holocaust History Project, Inc. has no paid employees and is made possible by the efforts of the members who contribute their time, skill, and money to develop one of the leading resources for accurate historical information and original documents about the Holocaust on the Internet. If you found this site useful and wish to help defray the expenses of our work, contributions may be sent to:

Treasurer
The Holocaust History Project, Inc.
14427 Brook Hollow Boulevard
Suite 281
San Antonio, Texas 78232-3826
You may also donate via Paypal, it's fast and easy.
http://holocaust-history.org/donations/
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Old 29th March 2012, 08:31 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
Something like this Internet Page?



http://holocaust-history.org/donations/
No, nothing at all like that, since unlike Smith's and Duke's unaccountable (and therefore scam) requests for donations, as a registered 501(c)(3), you can obtain information about the Holocaust History Project directly from the IRS at this handy website.
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Old 29th March 2012, 08:47 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Your homework is incomplete. There are plenty of images showing both the emaciated survivors and the corpses at the death camps, taken both before and after the camps' liberation, so go back and fill in the blank where the question mark is.

And while you're at it, please provide the forensic and documentary proof that the person shown in the Dresden section was actually killed at Dresden by Allied bombing, and that the child shown in the Hiroshima section was actually injured in Hiroshima by the atomic bomb.
The picture is primary evidence, and any cross reference with the testimonies claims will prove that really happened!

VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE HOLOCAUST CLAIM!

Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Because I know you'll ask for that same proof regarding the images of Nazi death camp victims.
Right on the target: Where is a picture of the supposed homicidal gas chamber? Where is a picture of bodies being retrieved from the fictional homicidal gas chambers? Where is the picture of a body killed by gassing?

By the way, Miss elementary teacher, could you explain why the numbers bellow proves the allegations of mass extermination are exaggerated?

Quote:
The Nazis constantly searched for more efficient means of extermination. At the Auschwitz camp in Poland, they conducted experiments with Zyklon B (previously used for fumigation) by gassing some 600 Soviet prisoners of war and 250 ill prisoners in September 1941. Zyklon B pellets, converted to lethal gas when exposed to air. They proved the quickest gassing method and were chosen as the means of mass murder at Auschwitz. At the height of the deportations, up to 6,000 Jews were gassed each day at Auschwitz.
United States Holocaust Museum, GASSING OPERATIONS

Now the question: how much corpses was the crematorium able to burn per day?

Quote:
Some indication of the actual capacity of the crematoria may be found in a letter from the firm of Topf & Söhne to the Mauthausen concentration camp. It states that in the “coke-fuelled Topf dual-muffle cremation ovens… about ten to thirty-five corpses” could be cremated “in about ten hours” and that as many could be “cremated daily without overloading the ovens” even if the “cremations took place one after the other, day and night.”
Schnabel, Macht ohne Moral, p. 346 (Document D 132)

6000 - 35 = 5965

That is only for one oven!

Let's suppose that there was 5!

6000 - (35*5) = 5825

So, Miss elementary teacher, give your light on the subject and bring us a rational explanation to the above!

What happened with the 5825 daily leftover bodies which could not be cremated?
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Old 29th March 2012, 08:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
No, nothing at all like that, since unlike Smith's and Duke's unaccountable (and therefore scam) requests for donations, as a registered 501(c)(3), you can obtain information about the Holocaust History Project directly from the IRS at this handy website.
Pay tax to the IRS is not proof of credibility.

Failed "appeal to authority" argument...
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Old 29th March 2012, 11:25 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Wow, you can post an image. That's a strong argument.

Now, could you twaddle along? The grown ups might want to use this thread.
Oh, sorry, I almost ignored your post...

Grown ups? Like the one which can only posts laughing dogs instead of the evidence required?

Right?
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Old 30th March 2012, 12:07 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
You are bit insistent, Miss elementary teacher.

Look the homework I did for you...

Oh, goody, the old Dresden canard. Whenever that comes up it's proof positive that the poster hasn't got the first clue about the history of aerial operations during WWII. Or else they'd know why raising Dresden in the manner they do is a canard.
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Old 30th March 2012, 12:22 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
For instance, on May 16, 1942, Becker wrote a full report to Rauff about the operation of the gas vans (you can view images of the originals here), where he says,



And before you perform a "fraud" analysis on this document too (as Ingrid Weckert and Thomas Kues have tried and failed miserably to do), you might be interested to know that Rauff himself acknowledged the above as an actual and real message that he received from Becker.
Before I proceed on the analysis of the document above, I need an answer for two questions:

Is the document a copy from the original or the original itself?

How many pages compose the document? Two or three?
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Old 30th March 2012, 02:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Sometimes it's the only way to get the student to learn.



Your homework is incomplete. There are plenty of images showing both the emaciated survivors and the corpses at the death camps, taken both before and after the camps' liberation, so go back and fill in the blank where the question mark is.
Please provide examples of images showing emaciated survivors and dead people at death camps taken before the camp's liberation. Please provide examples of images showing emaciated survivors and corpses taken after the camp's liberation. Identify which are which and how you know. And remember--death camps. Not concentration camps.

Quote:
And while you're at it, please provide the forensic and documentary proof that the person shown in the Dresden section was actually killed at Dresden by Allied bombing, and that the child shown in the Hiroshima section was actually injured in Hiroshima by the atomic bomb.
That picture's from Hamburg, not Dresden. I know they all look alike to you guys. Show me a picture of a body that had been gassed.

Quote:
Because I know you'll ask for that same proof regarding the images of Nazi death camp victims.
No I won't because I'm just jumping in here for a second while taking a break from doing taxes. I'm not sticking around. I tell you, tax time's getting harder every year, what with all the money I'm making from my denial work. I thought being filthy stinkin' rich was suppose to be fun.

Anywhoo, if you do dredge up some photographs, be sure and explain what exactly they are showing vis-a-vis, the holocaust. You don't need to prove they were actually taken at German camps upon liberation. You just need to prove that they actually prove what you say they prove. For example: this isn't evidence of a gas chamber. Neither is this.
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Old 30th March 2012, 02:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
I am also really sorry for your have wasted your time typing all the above...
No doubt. Since it is probably the case you didn't read it.

Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
Your effort to divert the subject from my original enquires to my personal claims is USELESS!
I think this can be translated, accurately, to mean that my corrections to your ridiculous and unfounded claim aside, you will continue to post whatever you feel like making up.

Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
WHATEVER I LIED OR NOT FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW,
I am not sure that shouting is needed here, but, to focus on the supposed claim of gassing of millions of political prisoners, as you wrote, at first I had thought maybe you just made a dumb mistake, but your persistence leads me to conclude you were trying to put one over. So, where is the evidence for anyone's claiming gassing of millions of political prisoners? We're still waiting.

Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
YOU DID NOT PROVIDED ONE SINGLE PRIMARY EVIDENCE WHICH PROVE THE SO CALLED MASS EXTERMINATIONS OF JEWS HAPPENED!
In a reply to your distortion of what historians have written about the Holocaust? Why on earth would I?

Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT HERE:

JREF Forum » General Topics » Conspiracy Theories » [Merged] General Holocaust denial discussion thread
Well, yes, but. If you will notice, in this thread I have cited many primary sources showing mass extermination of Jews. However, you introduced the silliness that the NAzis are accused of murdering millions of political prisoners by gas -- "What I indeed wrote was the accusation which is made against the Third Reich" -- so my asking for your evidence of this accusation is more than pertinent.

Noted that you are trying to had your failure with shouting caps and other diversions.
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Old 30th March 2012, 03:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
No I won't because I'm just jumping in here for a second while taking a break from doing taxes. I'm not sticking around. I tell you, tax time's getting harder every year, what with all the money I'm making from my denial work. I thought being filthy stinkin' rich was suppose to be fun.
Baffling.

Doing taxes? I thought you'd gone back to school to actually learn something about all this. Or had taken the time to sound out the Jaeger report so you could finally say what Jaeger was writing about. Have you read the report, then, finally?
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Old 30th March 2012, 03:37 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
Before I proceed on the analysis of the document above, I need an answer for two questions:

Is the document a copy from the original or the original itself?

How many pages compose the document? Two or three?
And so, unable to answer the questions put to him by ANTPogo, SnakeTongue decides the best defense is to divert by asking questions himself. Sad. And a very blatant dodge.
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Old 30th March 2012, 04:15 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
Oh, sorry, I almost ignored your post...

Grown ups? Like the one which can only posts laughing dogs instead of the evidence required?

Right?
What else is there to do with your laughable posts? You're in danger of taking flight if you continue waving your hands like that.
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Old 30th March 2012, 02:57 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
Revisionists do not believe in tales told by people, as well forced confessions in war trials which the accused have no right to defence.

Revisionism is scientific analysis, something you should get grasp with it.
Edited by jhunter1163:  Edited for Rule 0.

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Old 30th March 2012, 08:46 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
No doubt. Since it is probably the case you didn't read it.

I think this can be translated, accurately, to mean that my corrections to your ridiculous and unfounded claim aside, you will continue to post whatever you feel like making up.
You are not trying to correct anything at all. If my claim is wrong, and I did not provided reliable evidence for what I claimed, why you do not just show where I am wrong?

What indeed happened? What you support?

Show what is the correct claim and prove me wrong with arguments!

Did millions were killed in gas chambers? Who they were? Jews? Homosexuals? POWs?

Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
I am not sure that shouting is needed here, but, to focus on the supposed claim of gassing of millions of political prisoners, as you wrote, at first I had thought maybe you just made a dumb mistake, but your persistence leads me to conclude you were trying to put one over. So, where is the evidence for anyone's claiming gassing of millions of political prisoners? We're still waiting.

In a reply to your distortion of what historians have written about the Holocaust? Why on earth would I?
So what exactly historians have written about? What is the original claim for the supposed mass extermination plan?

Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Well, yes, but. If you will notice, in this thread I have cited many primary sources showing mass extermination of Jews. However, you introduced the silliness that the NAzis are accused of murdering millions of political prisoners by gas -- "What I indeed wrote was the accusation which is made against the Third Reich" -- so my asking for your evidence of this accusation is more than pertinent.
You cited references to interpretations made on secondary evidence. The primary evidence you still did not provided.

If that accusation is wrong, which is the right one?

Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Noted that you are trying to had your failure with shouting caps and other diversions.
No, I am only expressing my astonishment in face of the posts I discovered debating "SnakeTogue" rather than "Holocaust".
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Old 30th March 2012, 09:05 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
And so, unable to answer the questions put to him by ANTPogo, SnakeTongue decides the best defense is to divert by asking questions himself. Sad. And a very blatant dodge.
I made an analysis from a document which was indicated as "proof" of a mass extermination plan.

I find signs of forgery in the document. The document content do not address anything which proves the execution of a mass extermination plan by the Third Reich.

ANTPogo is trying to prove that I "copied" my analysis. That is not going to change the lack of credibility of the forged document.

There are still many documents which I want to verify. So I am not interested to waste time in a debate which will not provide any additional and helpful information to prove that a mass extermination plan really happened.
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Old 30th March 2012, 09:13 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
That picture's from Hamburg, not Dresden. I know they all look alike to you guys. Show me a picture of a body that had been gassed.
That is interesting. I find that picture on the Internet in a search for Dresden bombing. Do you know where I can find the original picture?
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Old 31st March 2012, 12:00 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
That picture's from Hamburg, not Dresden. I know they all look alike to you guys.
"You guys?" Your fellow rev who put together ST's image was the one who labeled that photo "Dresden."

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Old 31st March 2012, 02:37 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
You are not trying to correct anything at all. If my claim is wrong, and I did not provided reliable evidence for what I claimed, why you do not just show where I am wrong?
Let's see how this works. You write:
Quote:
The original claim: German Third Reich had mass exterminate millions of political prisoners with gas chambers.

Therefore, being the German Third Reich the accused, the burden of proof remains on the accuser.
Then you write:
Quote:
What I indeed wrote was the accusation which is made against the Third Reich. In no moment I affirmed that really happened. That is why I am asking for evidence.
Not ever having read this accusation, and not wanting to cite every book, article, web post, blog, etc. ever written, I reasonably reply,
Quote:
Please provide a quotation for this specific claim and show where it has been made.
You post a quotation that doesn't mention political prisoners in it. So now you think that I need to produce examples of people NOT making the accusation? LOL That seems to be your way of acknowledging you can't produce one example of someone making the accusation you charged people with making.

Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
So what exactly historians have written about? What is the original claim for the supposed mass extermination plan?
You're supposed to be the revisionist. Why don't you tell us, with an accurate statement, not using a strawman or lying, what it is you think needs revising?

Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
You cited references to interpretations made on secondary evidence. The primary evidence you still did not provided.
Throughout this thread, as I wrote, I've cited primary as well as secondary sources. Don't lie about what I have posted, please.

Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
If that accusation is wrong, which is the right one?
Let's deal with your false charge for now. When we have cleaned that up, we can move on.

Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
No, I am only expressing my astonishment in face of the posts I discovered debating "SnakeTogue" rather than "Holocaust".
Well, that pretty much goes with the territory. You make false statements, you turn into fair game. Easy solution: stop making false statements.
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Old 31st March 2012, 02:41 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
ANTPogo is trying to prove that I "copied" my analysis. That is not going to change the lack of credibility of the forged document.
As far as I can tell, ANTPogo proved that you cribbed your analysis. Then he asked you some follow up questions. Like:
Quote:
If one of the reasons you think it's a "proven fraud" is because you claim the office code is incomplete, then you should easily be able to explain just how you know the office code is incomplete, tell us what's missing in the office code that would make it complete, and be able to show us (or provide a reference to) an example of a document that has this complete office code.

Why can't you do that, SnakeTongue?
Unable, apparently, to answer this simple request, you asked questions instead. I merely pointed out your failure and mendacity.

Got it?

Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
There are still many documents which I want to verify. So I am not interested to waste time in a debate which will not provide any additional and helpful information to prove that a mass extermination plan really happened.
As above, you can try rushing on to the next topic when you are caught lying and empty-handed, but we will keep calling you on your tactics.
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Old 31st March 2012, 05:30 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
Before I proceed on the analysis of the document above, I need an answer for two questions:

Is the document a copy from the original or the original itself?

How many pages compose the document? Two or three?
I'm sure the National Archives would be more than happy to answer a polite inquiry regarding your questions. However, you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, aren't you? You still haven't answered my questions regarding your "analysis" of the first document we talked about.

If one of the reasons you think the March 1942 document is a "proven fraud" is because you claim the office code is incomplete, then you should easily be able to explain just how you know the office code is incomplete, tell us what's missing in the office code that would make it complete, and be able to show us (or provide a reference to) an example of a document that has this complete office code.

First things first, SnakeTongue. Now please either answer my questions, or explain why you can't answer my questions.
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Old 31st March 2012, 05:41 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
Please provide examples of images showing emaciated survivors and dead people at death camps taken before the camp's liberation. Please provide examples of images showing emaciated survivors and corpses taken after the camp's liberation. Identify which are which and how you know. And remember--death camps. Not concentration camps.
I'm not going to do SnakeTongue's homework for him. If he can find pictures for Dresden and Hiroshima, he can find pictures for Auschwitz.

There's a question mark in his stupid image macro not because those pictures don't exist, but because deniers are willfully refusing to look at them.

Quote:
That picture's from Hamburg, not Dresden. I know they all look alike to you guys. Show me a picture of a body that had been gassed.
Take it up with your denier compatriot SnakeTongue. He's the one that claimed it was a Dresden victim, not me.

Quote:
Anywhoo, if you do dredge up some photographs, be sure and explain what exactly they are showing vis-a-vis, the holocaust. You don't need to prove they were actually taken at German camps upon liberation. You just need to prove that they actually prove what you say they prove. For example: this isn't evidence of a gas chamber. Neither is this.
I will provide just as much "proof" as SnakeTongue provides for his other images. So if he wants more from me, he's going to have to step up and provide something for the images he posted.
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Old 31st March 2012, 06:13 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by SnakeTongue View Post
...
I WILL NOT FOLLOW YOUR SUBJECTIVE EFFORT TO DIVERT THE INITIAL SUBJECT.
Most people would just say "You're trying to derail" or "You're trying to change the subject". I don't think the caps are necessary.
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Old 31st March 2012, 11:08 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Let's see how this works. You write: Then you write: Not ever having read this accusation, and not wanting to cite every book, article, web post, blog, etc. ever written, I reasonably reply, You post a quotation that doesn't mention political prisoners in it. So now you think that I need to produce examples of people NOT making the accusation? LOL That seems to be your way of acknowledging you can't produce one example of someone making the accusation you charged people with making.
No, I am not asking you to produce examples of people NOT making the accusation. I am asking you which is the ORIGINAL claim related to the supposed mass extermination plan.

Who was killed? How many? In which way?

Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
You're supposed to be the revisionist. Why don't you tell us, with an accurate statement, not using a strawman or lying, what it is you think needs revising?
I am not supposed to be a revisionist. I never admitted to be a revisionist. You are doing the assumption.

I have already answered to another user that I do not consider myself a specialist in the Holocaust matter.

That is why I am asking for the evidence.

What I think need to be revised is the evidence presented to prove the supposed mass extermination plan, but not because I consider myself a revisionist, but just a curious persons looking for answers.

Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Throughout this thread, as I wrote, I've cited primary as well as secondary sources. Don't lie about what I have posted, please.
No, you did not provided any PRIMARY evidence.

So far only ANTPogo had provided documents which I can verify.

Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Let's deal with your false charge for now. When we have cleaned that up, we can move on.

Well, that pretty much goes with the territory. You make false statements, you turn into fair game. Easy solution: stop making false statements.
I will ask again: if I did a false statement about a claim which historians do not support, what is the ORIGINAL CLAIM?

What is the ORIGINAL CLAIM which the historians support with reliable evidence?

In the supposed extermination plan executed by the Third Reich, who was killed? How many? In which way?

You indeed do not provided any response to this matter, which I had already addressed in the last post.
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