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Old 23rd May 2012, 03:55 PM   #81
Dinwar
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The gospels tells you to not use money, the tool of evil, you can't have two masters God and money,
This is a flat-out lie. YOUR OWN QUOTE HAS JESUS TELLING US TO INVEST MONEY. I capitalized that so that you can't miss it. Either the Bible is lying, or Gaetan is.

As I said in your Money thread, you don't believe the Bible or God is the ultimate being. You believe Gaetan is, and twist everything else to where you are right, no matter what the Bible says.

Quote:
That's exactly why this man was rebuke, because he didn't give the money to the poor,
Right--a master that would have his slaves beat for not getting at least a 50% return on investment will be THRILLED to have the slave give the money away. Your reading comprehension is as low as your understanding of economics.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 04:03 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Because the man obviously didn't know how to make use of the money, he was prudent, was afraid to lose it, he hid the money. The bank would have put the money back in the economy, create job for him. Nowon we must have laws so that money is use to create jobs, so that banks or others investment office, markets, create jobs with money, have the money circulate.
Then you'll be happy to learn that that is how our economy works. Was there anything else I could help you with?
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Old 23rd May 2012, 04:19 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
When you use something stupid like money, you must have laws, guards to make sure nobody gets hurt with it, for exemple, cause starvation. Jesus Christ told you in what should consist these laws, to have the money circulate and not be kept in a safe box or useless investment not producing job. That's what this story says.
Just letting you know, No one named Jesus Christ has ever told me anything - - though I have heard some commentaries involving "H. F.Jesus Christ", "M.F. Jesus Christ", "G.D. Jesus Christ on a Crutch" (or, maybe a Crotch - it was loud but not completely clear) and, several times, "H. M. F. Jesus Christ on a M.F. plane". None were in situations that clearly invoved basic economic policies though.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 04:51 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Dinwar View Post
This is a flat-out lie. YOUR OWN QUOTE HAS JESUS TELLING US TO INVEST MONEY. I capitalized that so that you can't miss it. Either the Bible is lying, or Gaetan is.

As I said in your Money thread, you don't believe the Bible or God is the ultimate being. You believe Gaetan is, and twist everything else to where you are right, no matter what the Bible says.

Right--a master that would have his slaves beat for not getting at least a 50% return on investment will be THRILLED to have the slave give the money away. Your reading comprehension is as low as your understanding of economics.
The more i waste time to read you, the more you have gone on bad faith, no time to waste to answer your stupidities.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 05:08 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The more i waste time to read you, the more you have gone on bad faith, no time to waste to answer your stupidities.
ROFL! That's what I've been saying about your club's handbook.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 06:06 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The gospels tells you to not use money, the tool of evil, you can't have two masters God and money, but if you use money you must redistribute it to make it useless, that's what that story says. What would happen if rich, afraid to lose their money, would keep it in a safety box in a bank. Money must circulate freely, if it doesn't, people can't eat and live appropriately. Government must make laws to make sure there is redistribution and it is better to be done by job creation as it create value and wealth.
Mark 12:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”

And they were amazed at him.

What Jesus is saying is that money is an earthly entity. Thus we use money for trade, taxes and other things on earth. But you give to God what belongs to God. Such as devotion, worship and praise. The Bible mentions money quite frequently. Judas, the disciple, was the groups treasurer, which means they had money.

Gaetan is mistaken and using scripture out of context.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 06:58 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Mark 12:17
New International Version (NIV)
17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”

And they were amazed at him.

What Jesus is saying is that money is an earthly entity. Thus we use money for trade, taxes and other things on earth. But you give to God what belongs to God. Such as devotion, worship and praise. The Bible mentions money quite frequently. Judas, the disciple, was the groups treasurer, which means they had money.

Gaetan is mistaken and using scripture out of context.

It is not me or Jesus Christ who want to use money, it is rich people like you, so government got to have laws or guards to protect people from you, to keep money moving from rich to poor, you should have it circulate and create jobs with it, and what the parable says is that if you don't know how to do it you should give your money to someone who knows.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 07:07 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You see me as your enemy but i just try to save your live because you won't last very long in hell.
.
The "live" has already been lost.
And Hell is forever.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 07:20 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
It is not me or Jesus Christ who want to use money, it is rich people like you, so government got to have laws or guards to protect people from you, to keep money moving from rich to poor, you should have it circulate and create jobs with it, and what the parable says is that if you don't know how to do it you should give your money to someone who knows.
So Jesus preaches that you should steal money from people who have earned it through their labors, if they don't do what he wants them to do with it? Boy, Jesus is a real jerk.

And what makes you think Joecool is rich?
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Old 23rd May 2012, 07:23 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
It is not me or Jesus Christ who want to use money, it is rich people like you, so government got to have laws or guards to protect people from you, to keep money moving from rich to poor, you should have it circulate and create jobs with it, and what the parable says is that if you don't know how to do it you should give your money to someone who knows.
You are badly misguided and do not understand the Bible. Jesus recognized that money is an earthly entity. Thus he tells his followers to use money. He does advise people to give to the poor. But money is nowhere made to be evil. The love of money can have roots in evil, but not money itself. But nowhere does it say money must move from rich to poor. Jesus said that God provides for the birds and animals, thus he will provide for people. Money is just a tool, not more or less than any other tools. He does advise people to steward their money as well. There is nothing to indicate that Jesus was against people having money.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 07:41 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
You are badly misguided and do not understand the Bible. Jesus recognized that money is an earthly entity. Thus he tells his followers to use money. He does advise people to give to the poor. But money is nowhere made to be evil. The love of money can have roots in evil, but not money itself. But nowhere does it say money must move from rich to poor. Jesus said that God provides for the birds and animals, thus he will provide for people. Money is just a tool, not more or less than any other tools. He does advise people to steward their money as well. There is nothing to indicate that Jesus was against people having money.

Rediculous, just to say that if i would answer every stupid post like that i wouldn't have enough of 24 hours a day with of course no sleep.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 07:50 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Rediculous, just to say that if i would answer every stupid post like that i wouldn't have enough of 24 hours a day with of course no sleep.
On the contrary I think Joecool has offered a pretty balanced summary of Jesus and his teachings in the Bible regarding money.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 07:54 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
You are badly misguided and do not understand the Bible. Jesus recognized that money is an earthly entity. Thus he tells his followers to use money. He does advise people to give to the poor. But money is nowhere made to be evil. The love of money can have roots in evil, but not money itself. But nowhere does it say money must move from rich to poor. Jesus said that God provides for the birds and animals, thus he will provide for people. Money is just a tool, not more or less than any other tools. He does advise people to steward their money as well. There is nothing to indicate that Jesus was against people having money.
.
"Render unto Caesar...etc".. That's a quote...
And god provides for the birds but he doesn't throw the food into the nest.
They have to work for it.
No workee, no eatee.
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Old 24th May 2012, 06:57 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
On the contrary I think Joecool has offered a pretty balanced summary of Jesus and his teachings in the Bible regarding money.
All this was disinformation of the teaching of Jesus Christ:

Quote:
You are badly misguided and do not understand the Bible. Jesus recognized that money is an earthly entity. Thus he tells his followers to use money.
Where is that, Jesus said that you can't have to master God and money, that means that if you use money you are not of God

Quote:
He does advise people to give to the poor. But money is nowhere made to be evil. The love of money can have roots in evil, but not money itself. But nowhere does it say money must move from rich to poor.
Many times Jesus said that rich must share their money with poor, this is a good exemple of his disinformation and bad faith.

Quote:
Jesus said that God provides for the birds and animals, thus he will provide for people. Money is just a tool, not more or less than any other tools. He does advise people to steward their money as well. There is nothing to indicate that Jesus was against people having money.
Jesus was a lot against people having money because he blame them all the time to not share with poor and he advise them they'll be hungry and do not have consolation, and the parable of rich and Lasare specifies that rich goes to hell, maybe you don't believe him but that's what is going to happen to you if you are rich:

Luke 6, ESV

Jesus Pronounces Woes
24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.

25 “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry.
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Old 24th May 2012, 07:13 AM   #95
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As I've said before, Gaetan wants us all to wallow in filth, disease, misery, and death, because of his religion. He wants us to revert to barbarism, and will twist anything to make it sound like he doesn't.
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Old 24th May 2012, 07:20 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
When you use something stupid like money, you must have laws, guards to make sure nobody gets hurt with it, for exemple, cause starvation. Jesus Christ told you in what should consist these laws, to have the money circulate and not be kept in a safe box or useless investment not producing job. That's what this story says.
You have no idea what the bible says, what history teaches us, what money is, what laws are.

Why should we bother listening to you, ever ?
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Old 24th May 2012, 07:21 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The more i waste time to read you, the more you have gone on bad faith, no time to waste to answer your stupidities.
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Old 24th May 2012, 08:03 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Where is that, Jesus said that you can't have to master God and money, that means that if you use money you are not of God
LOL, right here:

Quote:
Many times Jesus said that rich must share their money with poor, this is a good exemple of his disinformation and bad faith.
Quote:
Jesus was a lot against people having money because he blame them all the time to not share with poor and he advise them they'll be hungry and do not have consolation, and the parable of rich and Lasare specifies that rich goes to hell, maybe you don't believe him but that's what is going to happen to you if you are rich:

Luke 6, ESV

Jesus Pronounces Woes
24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.

25 “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry.
Are you going to start a thread saying we should abolish food?
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Old 24th May 2012, 10:21 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
All this was disinformation of the teaching of Jesus Christ:

Where is that, Jesus said that you can't have to master God and money, that means that if you use money you are not of God
Gaetan, do you have money or have you given all of it to the poor? If you haven't given all your money away, does that mean you are of bad faith and not following what Jesus taught?

When Jesus said that you cannot serve God and money, he meant that you should not be obsessed with money, making money or accumulation of money the focus of your life. You should be focused on doing God's work. Money still has it's place on earth and in society.
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Old 24th May 2012, 10:37 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Gaetan, do you have money or have you given all of it to the poor? If you haven't given all your money away, does that mean you are of bad faith and not following what Jesus taught?
It would not only mean he is of bad faith, but also a hypocrite for telling us to do what he does not.

Gaetan, if you would like the addresses of some charities to send all of your filthy money, please let me know.
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Old 24th May 2012, 12:46 PM   #101
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Either we abolish money or we keep it and make sure people have enough to live properly. The fisrt option is my option.
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Old 24th May 2012, 01:38 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Either we abolish money or we keep it and make sure people have enough to live properly. The fisrt option is my option.
Sweet! No more money! No, how will you pay the doctor for his services?
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Old 24th May 2012, 02:26 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Baloney View Post
Sweet! No more money! No, how will you pay the doctor for his services?
By making a cabinet for him. And thus barter economy starts and it inevitably goes from there to a money economy.

Of course, in Gaetan's worldview, the carpenter is the doctor.
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Old 24th May 2012, 02:46 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Baloney View Post
Sweet! No more money! No, how will you pay the doctor for his services?
The service of the doctor is free, food is free, natural ressources are free, your work is free, others goods and services are free, no money, no barter.
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Old 24th May 2012, 02:48 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The service of the doctor is free, food is free, natural ressources are free, your work is free, others goods and services are free, no money, no barter.

Yawn. Your fantasy is tiresome.
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Old 24th May 2012, 02:50 PM   #106
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Free is worth what you paid for it.
Just like all the advice one sees on the Internet.
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Old 24th May 2012, 03:25 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The service of the doctor is free, food is free, natural ressources are free, your work is free, others goods and services are free, no money, no barter.
Well old Joe over there just wants to drink beer and smoke dope so he likes this.
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Old 24th May 2012, 03:36 PM   #108
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[quote=Gaetan;8313972]All this was disinformation of the teaching of Jesus Christ:



Where is that, Jesus said that you can't have to master God and money, that means that if you use money you are not of God [/quote[Jesus said we should not let money rule us. He did not say we should have none. It's very real. You are not thinking well here.
Quote:



Many times Jesus said that rich must share their money with poor, this is a good exemple of his disinformation and bad faith.
Once again you confuse the worst example with all examples. Jesus, it would appear, did not want people to be rich and careless. He may, if a practical sort, have realized that this does not mean that everyone must be poor. If one does away with all money, all its advantage is lost too.
Quote:



Jesus was a lot against people having money because he blame them all the time to not share with poor and he advise them they'll be hungry and do not have consolation, and the parable of rich and Lasare specifies that rich goes to hell, maybe you don't believe him but that's what is going to happen to you if you are rich:

Luke 6, ESV

Jesus Pronounces Woes
24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.

25 “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry.
lkWhat we don't know and can only guess here is where Jesus draws the line between the truly rich and those who earn a good living, something he's on the record as having supported.

edit to add: too disabled and sick to do much research here yet, so you're on your own for bible references, but I might point out the passage, wherever it is, in which a disciple castigates a woman for wasting expensive lotion onb Jesus when it could have been sold for the benefit of the poor. The upshot is that the poor will always be with us, but the value of the commodity requires at least occasionally that it be used, and there is no better use than anointing the lord. Hmmm.
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Old 24th May 2012, 04:32 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The service of the doctor is free, food is free, natural ressources are free, your work is free, others goods and services are free, no money, no barter.
And what will you do if people decide they don't want to work at all? What if I want to play golf for a living while you clean my toilets and prepare my dinner?

What will you do about vandalism and rapists who commit non monetary crimes?

What if I grow apples and give them all away? If I live in the US, those guys starving in Africa will still be starving even if I give my apples away for "free".
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Old 24th May 2012, 04:46 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The service of the doctor is free, food is free, natural ressources are free, your work is free, others goods and services are free, no money, no barter.
It's been tried, several times, several places. Never seems to work. But there always seems to be another dreamer or crackpot who claims to know how to make it work. This time. Just like all the other times.
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Old 24th May 2012, 07:02 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Either we abolish money or we keep it and make sure people have enough to live properly. The fisrt option is my option.
So let's say everything is free in your mystical world. I raise cattle and water and I allow my neighbors and others to take livestock for food. In return, my neighbors give me chickens and some others give me lettuce and other vegetables. One guy gives me a TV and another guys fixes my car.

How do those starving people in Africa get any of this "free" stuff?
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Old 24th May 2012, 08:47 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Baloney View Post
Sweet! No more money! No, how will you pay the doctor for his services?
In the UK we don't pay the doctor. We pay the tax collector. That way we don't get bankrupted if we require protracted treatment.

But I take your point, because the taxes are paid in money.
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Old 25th May 2012, 06:19 AM   #113
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What i said is that if we got to use your money system, we got to have laws, for exemple, the recent entrance in market of facebook, i can say without making mistake that these people, if we exclude a few fellows, have probably stolen more money than all the people who have been in prison in the entire world since six thousand years. All rich got to do is to buy medias, manipulate people , have the right people elected, and the are in business, no laws. That why your system don't work and lead the humanity in misery and hell.
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Old 25th May 2012, 07:12 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What i said is that if we got to use your money system, we got to have laws, for exemple, the recent entrance in market of facebook, i can say without making mistake that these people, if we exclude a few fellows, have probably stolen more money than all the people who have been in prison in the entire world since six thousand years. All rich got to do is to buy medias, manipulate people , have the right people elected, and the are in business, no laws. That why your system don't work and lead the humanity in misery and hell.
Who "these people"? Which "few fellows"? Why only 6,000 years? You don't have to be rich to manipulate people. What do you mean "no laws"?

You do know that there is an investigation into the IPO?
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Old 25th May 2012, 07:25 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Either we abolish money or we keep it and make sure people have enough to live properly.
Right. And since we'Ve already demonstrated that the first is impossible, and we know the second works... you still opt for the first option ? That makes no sense and is not the mark of a reasonable person.
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Old 25th May 2012, 07:26 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The service of the doctor is free, food is free, natural ressources are free, your work is free, others goods and services are free, no money, no barter.
1. If you work, it's not free.
2. No one is going to work at all under this system.
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Old 25th May 2012, 07:27 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What i said is that if we got to use your money system, we got to have laws, for exemple, the recent entrance in market of facebook, i can say without making mistake that these people, if we exclude a few fellows, have probably stolen more money than all the people who have been in prison in the entire world since six thousand years. All rich got to do is to buy medias, manipulate people , have the right people elected, and the are in business, no laws. That why your system don't work and lead the humanity in misery and hell.
What in the blue hell are you talking about ?
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Old 25th May 2012, 07:30 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by the PC apeman View Post
It's been tried, several times, several places. Never seems to work. But there always seems to be another dreamer or crackpot who claims to know how to make it work. This time. Just like all the other times.
But it can work - If you watch the 40th anniversary of Woodstock documentary you will introduced to two groups that are still successful to this day.

Yes the vast majority of these social experiments fail - but some do make it
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Old 25th May 2012, 07:49 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The service of the doctor is free, food is free, natural ressources are free, your work is free, others goods and services are free, no money, no barter.
Ask any Cuban emigre how well this system works.
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:41 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
But it can work - If you watch the 40th anniversary of Woodstock documentary you will introduced to two groups that are still successful to this day.

Yes the vast majority of these social experiments fail - but some do make it
I'll check it out. Thanks.
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