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Tags Costa Rica incidents , environmental activists , paul watson , protest incidents

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Old 15th May 2012, 11:26 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
So..Noah...how does Sea Shepherd justify acts like this?

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I AGREE
thats awful, the way that Jap ship reversed deliberately into the Steve Irwin
won't somebody please think of the children
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:44 AM   #42
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If I see a sea shepherd boat on a plane...
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:48 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
So..Noah...how does Sea Shepherd justify acts like this?

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I AGREE
Research ships are evil and deserve to be rammed, obviously.
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:50 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
So..Noah...how does Sea Shepherd justify acts like this?

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I AGREE
They don't need to.

This isn't Greenpeace, where you put flowers into your hair and sing songs and hope that telling people not to do something actually works. SSCS has never and will never tell you one thing and do another. They're an action group, not a protest group.
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:51 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Research ships are evil and deserve to be rammed, obviously.
Research?

That's a joke, right? Sorry I can't tell.
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:56 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
That's the problem. The "appropriate authorities" DO NOTHING.
There's a reason for this, you know.

No laws are being broken.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:05 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Research?

That's a joke, right? Sorry I can't tell.
The ship is covered in loud RESEARCH markings. We know that research vessels exist and that some of these vessels take an occasional whale for biological study.

Are you contending that specific vessel was not a research vessel? If so, based on what?
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:18 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The ship is covered in loud RESEARCH markings. We know that research vessels exist and that some of these vessels take an occasional whale for biological study.

Are you contending that specific vessel was not a research vessel? If so, based on what?
"Occasional whale"?

1,000 is the quota. It's far from an occasional whale. The RESEARCH on the side of the vessel is a joke. It's a pretty poor attempt at implying they're not commercially whaling - which IS against the law, especially in a protected area.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:22 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
There's a reason for this, you know.

No laws are being broken.
Not true.

I don't know the outcome of this, and a fair assmption would be that it's stuck in paperwork phase, but they're clearly using a loophole that needs to be shut. Until it is, Sea Shepherd gets my support, financially and emotionally.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:26 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
"Occasional whale"?

1,000 is the quota. It's far from an occasional whale.
It's legal.

Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
The RESEARCH on the side of the vessel is a joke. It's a pretty poor attempt at implying they're not commercially whaling - which IS against the law, especially in a protected area.
We know that's the case with this vessel because...?
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:28 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Not true.

I don't know the outcome of this, and a fair assmption would be that it's stuck in paperwork phase, but they're clearly using a loophole that needs to be shut. Until it is, Sea Shepherd gets my support, financially and emotionally.
Did you read the article in your link? I mean, really read it?

It doesn't say any laws were broken, only that some eco-tards in Australia want it stopped. That doesn't make it illegal. In fact, it's basically proof of it's legality. Were it illegal, Australia (or a nation with an actual Navy) could have stopped it by now. As it currently stands, Japan can kill X number of whales per year. Period.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:29 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
im proud to have donated money to them. I hope they get bigger ships that can sink whale hunter boats.
Excellent. Because financiers of terrorists can be prosecuted too.

... and the authorities ARE doing something: arresting and prosecuting this criminal.

So much for your donation.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:29 PM   #53
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Maybe I'll start watching Whale Wars again this season, just to see that. That crew is more comical than Gilligan.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:30 PM   #54
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I've watched Whale Wars a few times, and it's pretty obvious that all those "research" signs are a load of rubbish. It's just to maintain plausible deniability.

With that said, I personally don't care about whales, and I'm not sure why I should. But when we're talking about Watson and gang "flaunting the law" or whatever, let's remember that it goes both ways. The only difference is that the Japanese whalers are competent at what they do and enjoy the tacit support of their country, whereas Paul Watson and company are highly incompetent.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:35 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's legal.
It's wrong.



Quote:
We know that's the case with this vessel because...?
Its part of the fleet illegally whaling in protected waters. Just because you don't want to see what's really happening, doesn't mean it's not actually happening.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:35 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Lowe View Post
If they don't want to be in danger they could always not kill whales. It's not like it serves any useful scientific or economic purpose.
There is an economic purpose. Have you seen the price of whale meat on some market, or the bubbler price ? You are certainly not the targeted market, but that don't mean the market don't exist.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:36 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
Did you read the article in your link? I mean, really read it?

It doesn't say any laws were broken, only that some eco-tards in Australia want it stopped. That doesn't make it illegal. In fact, it's basically proof of it's legality. Were it illegal, Australia (or a nation with an actual Navy) could have stopped it by now. As it currently stands, Japan can kill X number of whales per year. Period.
That's the "loophole" portion of the "loophole".

They're exploiting a flaw in the law. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:38 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
That's the "loophole" portion of the "loophole".

They're exploiting a flaw in the law. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.
Yep.

Therefore, legal.

You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.

Now, should it be made illegal? Probably. But that doesn't make it illegal right now.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:44 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Not true.

I don't know the outcome of this, and a fair assmption would be that it's stuck in paperwork phase, but they're clearly using a loophole that needs to be shut. Until it is, Sea Shepherd gets my support, financially and emotionally.
Using A loophole *IS* to on the legal side.

But rather than admit it , and admit the vigilant were in the wrong (since they were ramming people doing LEGAL stuff) , you still pretend the shepherd ******** were in the right.

Until the law changed then vigilantism should be rightfully put in prison. You may even call that civil protest if you wish, but civil protest imply you accept what you are doing is ILLEGAL, and you get to be put in prison.

I am glad the guy is headed to a place where he can't put other in danger.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:45 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
Yep.

Therefore, legal.

You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.

Now, should it be made illegal? Probably. But that doesn't make it illegal right now.
It means that they only people who CAN do something about it are groups like Sea Shepherd. That's what it means. And since they're they only ones who seem to want to enforce the ban on commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean, they're the ones who get my support.

As far as I'm concerned the Japanese whalers can get all their ships sunk. The day the Nissan Maru slips beneath the waves will be a banner day indeed.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:45 PM   #61
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NoahFence++

I usually end up giving a few hundred dollars to Sea Shepard Society every year. I think, especially for what they're doing, direct action really helps, and it brings the issue of whale hunting into the mainstream, and puts huge amount of international pressure on nations which permit research commercial whaling.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:46 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
It's wrong.


Its part of the fleet illegally whaling in protected waters. Just because you don't want to see what's really happening, doesn't mean it's not actually happening.
I'm sorry, I don't understand.

If an activity is legal but one feels it's still wrong, one is not allowed to simply declare it illegal, then attack vessels engaged in it while claiming to be "enforcing maritime law". See how that doesn't work? International Maritime Law is not Sea Shepherd's Personal Maritime Law.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:48 PM   #63
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Quote:
Using A loophole *IS* to on the legal side.
Again, "legal" does not equal "right".


Quote:
But rather than admit it , and admit the vigilant were in the wrong (since they were ramming people doing LEGAL stuff) , you still pretend the shepherd ******** were in the right.
On the flip side of the coin, not everything that is illegal is wrong.

Quote:
I am glad the guy is headed to a place where he can't put other in danger.
And I'm glad his current address doesn't matter. There are a TON of people ready to pick up the mantle.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:49 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
It means that they only people who CAN do something about it are groups like Sea Shepherd. That's what it means. And since they're they only ones who seem to want to enforce the ban on commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean, they're the ones who get my support.

As far as I'm concerned the Japanese whalers can get all their ships sunk. The day the Nissan Maru slips beneath the waves will be a banner day indeed.
No.

When you interfere with a legal activity, no matter how right you think you are, you are breaking the law. As far as the law is concerned, they are pirates, and could be treated as such. Count yourself lucky that Japanese whalers aren't outfitted with machine guns...
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:50 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
It's a multi million dollar slice of the Japanese economy.

And the whale harvest is well within the sustainable yield, so it isn't harmful to the ecology. Tuna, I'm not so sure.
That's it. I really can't understand the fuss about whales. Minke whales are the cows of the sea.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:50 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'm sorry, I don't understand.

If an activity is legal but one feels it's still wrong, one is not allowed to simply declare it illegal, then attack vessels engaged in it while claiming to be "enforcing maritime law". See how that doesn't work? International Maritime Law is not Sea Shepherd's Personal Maritime Law.
Commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean IS illegal. That's exactly what they're doing. Spending a few extra yen to paint "RESEARCH" on the side of your ship doesn't change that. They're not fooling anybody!

Well, I guess they must be fooling some, or it wouldn't be an issue.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:52 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkmite
It's legal.
It's wrong.
Yeah, many things that are legal are wrong, and vice versa



Quote:

Its part of the fleet illegally whaling in protected waters. Just because you don't want to see what's really happening, doesn't mean it's not actually happening.
And just because you don't like what is happening, doesn't mean it can't happen

And the "Southern Ocean Whale Sanctury" has no force in International Law, and most of the world's governments want it that way. If the International Court of Justice knows what good for it, it will acknowledge that.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:54 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean IS illegal. That's exactly what they're doing. Spending a few extra yen to paint "RESEARCH" on the side of your ship doesn't change that.
Well obviously it does, doesn't it? Because research vessels ARE allowed to take whales in the southern ocean aren't they?

Was this vessel engaged in whaling when it was rammed by the Steve Irwin? Didn't look that way to me...
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:55 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
It means that they only people who CAN do something about it are groups like Sea Shepherd. That's what it means. And since they're they only ones who seem to want to enforce the ban on commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean, they're the ones who get my support.

As far as I'm concerned the Japanese whalers can get all their ships sunk. The day the Nissan Maru slips beneath the waves will be a banner day indeed.
I am frankly glad a lot of people don't think like you. Imagine how society would be like if those vigilanty decided to correct what they see as wrong, but is otherwise perfectely legal ? I mean, some people see gay life as wrong, so what's to stop one of those "gay shepherd" in a car simply ram a few of those type to teach them god fear or something. Same with those "upitty black", sure it is now legal that they are on equal footing with WASP, but hey, some people see that as morally wrong, and ramming a few might teach them. Or even those who have adulterous sex. That is so wrong, but legal, but let us ignore that and use "red A shepherd" cruise around, pickup those adulterous people and brand them. Illegal I know, but wrong is wrong.

Wright ?

See this is why in a civil society we have things called law, and a process to change those laws, and why vigilanty are seen as criminal. What one is legally entitled to, another might find wrong. And ocne you start that way, there is soon non turning back.
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Old 15th May 2012, 12:58 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush View Post
No.

When you interfere with a legal activity, no matter how right you think you are, you are breaking the law. As far as the law is concerned, they are pirates, and could be treated as such. Count yourself lucky that Japanese whalers aren't outfitted with machine guns...
SSCS flies the flag of a couple of countries. Shooting them is not a good idea.

Are they pirates? Hell yes they are.
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:04 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
SSCS flies the flag of a couple of countries. Shooting them is not a good idea.
If a private vessel is deliberately trying to ram you, shooting in self defense is 100% legal no matter what flag the vessel is flying.

Flying the flag of more than one country however is illegal.
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:05 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
SSCS flies the flag of a couple of countries. Shooting them is not a good idea.

Are they pirates? Hell yes they are.
That is an interresting admission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy

Scroll down or search for "singapour". I hope for them they are not caught "pirating" around whalling ship near singapour.

Also scroll to : Self protection measures and increased patrol

Using weapon against pirate is perfectely acceptable.


Oh and about your flag protection ?

"Because of universal jurisdiction, action can be taken against pirates without objection from the flag state of the pirate vessel. "
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:06 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
SSCS flies the flag of a couple of countries. Shooting them is not a good idea.

Are they pirates? Hell yes they are.
No. They're idiots, but they can be treated like pirates, if the Japanese decide to. Then your donations will go towards things like first aid and burial at sea instead of buying cool skull-and-crossbones hoodies for fugly hippie chicks.
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:12 PM   #74
portlandatheist
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I wonder why these jerks don't target the Inuit in Barrow Alaska who harvest around 80 Bowheads per year. They would be much easier targets than the Japanese in their small boats:

I was lucky enough to be up in Barrow when they caught one and spent six or so hours out on the ice as they brought this whale in:


I think South Park said it best:
Quote:
An unorganized incompetent media whore who thought lying to everyone was OK as long as it served his cause
Paul Watson endangers his own crew and the crew's general incompetence makes for good comedy but its only a matter of time before one of these activists gets themselves killed.
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:15 PM   #75
Howie Felterbush
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Paul Watson endangers his own crew and the crew's general incompetence makes for good comedy but its only a matter of time before one of these activists gets themselves killed.
I'm not the kind of guy who wishes death on people, but in this case I'll keep my fingers crossed. It would be pretty cool if one of the Sea Shepherds went over the side and was savagely mauled by a whale.
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:20 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If a private vessel is deliberately trying to ram you, shooting in self defense is 100% legal no matter what flag the vessel is flying.
I agree. I never said what SSCS does is safe.

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Flying the flag of more than one country however is illegal.
Different ships, different flags.
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:27 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
And that's the evidence of "authorities" not doing a damn thing. They're afraid of Japan. The crew of the Ady Gil was resting on the outside of the ship - it wasn't a matter of maintaing their course and speed. They were just sitting there. The video doesn't lie. The video taken from the Ady Gil shows this quite clearly.
It sounds as if Japan was not cooperating with the investigation, which kept the investigators from drawing a more definite conclusion. I don't like what little I have read of Sea Shepherd's tactics, but I am inclined to put the bulk of the blame on the Japanese vessel in this instance.
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:32 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
I wonder why these jerks don't target the Inuit in Barrow Alaska who harvest around 80 Bowheads per year. They would be much easier targets than the Japanese in their small boats:

I was lucky enough to be up in Barrow when they caught one and spent six or so hours out on the ice as they brought this whale in:


I think South Park said it best:


Paul Watson endangers his own crew and the crew's general incompetence makes for good comedy but its only a matter of time before one of these activists gets themselves killed.
Is commercial whaling banned in Barrow?

Look at the documentation from either side in this fight. Japan isn't even hiding the fact they're commercially whaling. Not with any serious effort at least. You should see the documents they pass off as "research". It's a friggin joke.

JARPA was supposed to last 16 years. And it did. Then what happened? JARPA II of course! They gave themselves permits to do this commercial whaling, in the Southern Ocean sanctuary that each and every country in the International Whaling Commission created. Well, all but one country. Betcha can't figure out who didn't vote for it!

http://www.whaling.jp/english/qa.html

Apparently that's the website if the "Bad Guys" if you will. Read it. It's a friggin joke.
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:38 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
They don't need to.

This isn't Greenpeace, where you put flowers into your hair and sing songs and hope that telling people not to do something actually works. SSCS has never and will never tell you one thing and do another. They're an action group, not a protest group.
Hilarious delusion. He's explained clearly that lying is perfectly acceptable to him, so dupes who believe what he says are fools.
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Old 15th May 2012, 01:42 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
They don't need to.

This isn't Greenpeace, where you put flowers into your hair and sing songs and hope that telling people not to do something actually works. SSCS has never and will never tell you one thing and do another. They're an action group, not a protest group.
So what gives them the right to take action, and place the lives of the Japanese sailors in danger by purposefully ramming their ship? If a Japanese sailor had been crushed to death by the bow of the Steve Irwin...would that have been murder?
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