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Old 8th June 2012, 09:44 AM   #1
Clayton Moore
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Bob McIlvaine: US gov behind 9/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErHfTQAvDnw

This thread is to discuss the testimony and views of the father of 9/11 victim Bobby McIlvaine, an Oreland Pennsylvania native who was murdered at age 26.

The injuries to his son and other victims will be discussed.


http://www.infowars.com/wtc-bone-fra...ade-after-911/
Quote:

“My name is Bob McIlvaine. I’m from right outside the Philadelphia area. I’m the father of Bobby McIlvaine, who was killed in the lobby of the North Tower on September 11th, 2001. I’ve been searching to get the truth of exactly what happened to Bobby.”

“Bobby was one of the first ten bodies found. We took him home that week. We were one of the few. I finally found the doctor who examined him. He gave me an outline of a body, and he described all the injuries he had. But the fact is that all his injuries were in the face, the front of his face, his face was blown off, massive cuts in his chest, and his right arm were blown off. To me, that means explosion.”

Jane Pollicino

“My husband Steve was 48 years old when he was killed on September 11th. I have no identification. Why is that? It seems to me we should know why for over 1000 victims there are no trace for and no identification… of over 1000 victims. We should know why there are over 700 bone fragments found on the top of Deutsche Bank building less than a half an inch long, we should have that information, why were they up there, why weren’t they found? What kind of explosion was there?”
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Old 8th June 2012, 09:58 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErHfTQAvDnw

This thread is to discuss the testimony and views of the father of 9/11 victim Bobby McIlvaine, an Oreland Pennsylvania native who was murdered at age 26.

The injuries to his son and other victims will be discussed.


http://www.infowars.com/wtc-bone-fra...ade-after-911/
I don't even know where to start with the stupid presented here.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:31 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErHfTQAvDnw

This thread is to discuss the testimony and views of the father of 9/11 victim Bobby McIlvaine, an Oreland Pennsylvania native who was murdered at age 26.

The injuries to his son and other victims will be discussed.


http://www.infowars.com/wtc-bone-fra...ade-after-911/
Please link to an article, a confession, a video, anything that would indicate that there is a single human being alive that doesn't believe there were explosions in NYC on 9/11.


Just one.
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:35 AM   #4
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Talk about clutching at straws. is this all that truthers have nowadays? Explosions in a large building which is on fire.
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:36 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
This thread is to discuss the testimony and views of the father of 9/11 victim Bobby McIlvaine,
Does he bring anything new to the table that wasn't already proven false back in 2006?


Quote:
Ah... an Alex Jones link.

I guess not.

/thread

Last edited by Sword_Of_Truth; 8th June 2012 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:38 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Talk about clutching at straws. is this all that truthers have nowadays? Explosions in a large building which is on fire.
Science isn't exactly their strong suit.

We don't actually know what their strong suit is, mind you.
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:53 AM   #7
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Yeah, we do. It has wraparound sleeves and buckles in interesting places.
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Old 8th June 2012, 10:53 AM   #8
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If this thread was a bit more worth my time I'd do the research. I can say that it is documented that a large fireball came down the elevator shaft when the plane hit. It blew out a ton of glass and basically exploded in the lobby.

The injuries described are perfectly in line with that type of impact from the victim.
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Old 8th June 2012, 11:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
Yeah, we do. It has wraparound sleeves and buckles in interesting places.
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Old 8th June 2012, 11:17 AM   #10
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"What kind of explosion was there?"

The kind that happens when a large jetliner, almost full of fuel crashes into a large office building at 500+ MPH.
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Old 8th June 2012, 11:20 AM   #11
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Is there any other reasont to bring up Bob McIlvaine, other than as an appeal to emotion? Truthers have invoked his name before to support all sorts of nonsense, from the petition for NIST to "corrrect" their findings to testimony supposedly supporting the notion of explosives use on 9/11.

Brainster had it right all the way back in 2007:
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
People gain credibility in the Denial movement not based on what they have done, but on who they are and how that can be sold to the public. McIlvaine because he's a family member and that gives him a shield against criticism for his CT beliefs. Steven Jones because he's a scientist, and now they can say they have one of those. Morgan Reynolds because he's a former Bush Administration official (however minor) and now they can say they have one of those.
It was true then, it's true now. I feel as bad for Bob McIlvaine as I do any other person who lost family members on 9/11. But beliefs don't change the fact there were no explosives used at the towers, nor the fact that all the arguments raised by conspiracy peddlers has been proven wrong time and time again.

Let's not beat around the bush regarding what the belief system in question here is:
Quote:
Bob McIlvaine, father of Robert McIlvaine, Assistant Vice President, Merrill Lynch, WTC North Tower, 106th floor. Interview by Evan Solomon, CBC News 8/30/06: Bob McIlvaine: "I believe 100% that the U.S. orchestrated 9/11 with the help of other agencies around the world. But my blame goes to the United States because it happened in the U.S. There's people within the U.S. that knew it happened, that planned this to happen."
A person's belief does not change reality, regardless of how personally that person was affected by the event. He believes "that the U.S. orchestrated 9/11 with the help of other agencies around the world". As has been pointed out time and time again, the evidence given for this by the so-called "Truth" movement has been weak in the extreme, from insipid and silly insinuations about "Dancing Israelis" to long disproven claims like the "NORAD stood down" one. Fact is, objective evidence builds an entirely diferent story than one truthers like to tout. And appeals to emotion do not change that.

We all feel terrible for Bob McIlvane. But none of that changes the fact that explosives were not used in the towers, and that radical Islamicists hijacked jets and killed over 2000 people that day. Hoping that people will suspend critical thinking in the face of a grieving parent is a trick, not an argument. And it shows us all that no matter how low we think the so-called "Truth" movement can get, the reality is that they can exceed our expectations in this regard with no effort.
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Old 8th June 2012, 11:20 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
"What kind of explosion was there?"

The kind that happens when a large jetliner, almost full of fuel crashes into a large office building at 500+ MPH.
Now how could that cause an explosion? Surely the evil Zionist conspirators would have had to have planted a bomb or two?
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Old 8th June 2012, 11:21 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
Science isn't exactly their strong suit.

We don't actually know what their strong suit is, mind you.
Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
Yeah, we do. It has wraparound sleeves and buckles in interesting places.
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Old 8th June 2012, 11:28 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
"What kind of explosion was there?"

The kind that happens when a large jetliner, almost full of fuel crashes into a large office building at 500+ MPH.
This is the part I think twoofies struggle with the most. Hell, it's even hard for me to imagine the sheer magnitude of an impact like that. The fact that the towers remained standing as long as they did after the planes hit is astonishing in and of itself.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 8th June 2012, 11:39 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
This is the part I think twoofies struggle with the most. Hell, it's even hard for me to imagine the sheer magnitude of an impact like that. The fact that the towers remained standing as long as they did after the planes hit is astonishing in and of itself.
In Trutherland every big building that was ever hit by a large, fast moving plane remained standing, therefore bombs.
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Old 8th June 2012, 11:54 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
If this thread was a bit more worth my time I'd do the research. I can say that it is documented that a large fireball came down the elevator shaft when the plane hit. It blew out a ton of glass and basically exploded in the lobby.

The injuries described are perfectly in line with that type of impact from the victim.
No it didn't.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/eng...tural/wtc3.htm
Quote:
"Instead of building enough elevators to move everybody from the ground floor to their destination, (the designers) decided to split the trip to the upper floors between multiple elevators. If people wanted to get from the ground to the top floor, they would need to jump from elevator to elevator, in the same way you might switch cars on a subway system."
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Old 8th June 2012, 11:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Tell me, Clayton, how many elevator SHAFTS were there in the WTC buildings, and was there a clear path from top to bottom in the SHAFT networks, regardless of how many floors the individual cars served?
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Tell me, Clayton, how many elevator SHAFTS were there in the WTC buildings, and was there a clear path from top to bottom in the SHAFT networks, regardless of how many floors the individual cars served?
Stop, you'll only confuse him. I'm sure he thinks an elevator is some kind of "teleporter".

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Old 8th June 2012, 12:12 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Did you even read your own link? There were EXPRESS ELEVATORS that went to each of the sky lobbies. Care to guess which elevator shaft(s) the fireball came down?
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by thedopefishlives View Post
Did you even read your own link? There were EXPRESS ELEVATORS that went to each of the sky lobbies. Care to guess which elevator shaft(s) the fireball came down?
Beat me to it. Thanks Clayton for disregarding all the other people handing you your ass on a platter in exchange for doing it yourself.
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Beat me to it. Thanks Clayton for disregarding all the other people handing you your ass on a platter in exchange for doing it yourself.
The more he posts, The more the "truth" movement bleeds. I'm surprised he has not been dubbed "disinfo" by the other resident "truthers". I guess at this point they need all the "members" they can get, good or bad.
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:27 PM   #22
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lol pwned
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:28 PM   #23
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I put Clayton Moore
On "Ignore".
I now confess
I get Clayton Less.


(I get the impression that Clayton is looking at the Forum through a piece of Slow Glass* with a delay of 6 years)


*Copyright Bob Shaw
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
The more he posts, The more the "truth" movement bleeds. I'm surprised he has not been dubbed "disinfo" by the other resident "truthers". I guess at this point they need all the "members" they can get, good or bad.
There's still enough room in the phone booth where they hold their meetings.
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:30 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Beat me to it. Thanks Clayton for disregarding all the other people handing you your ass on a platter in exchange for doing it yourself.
I mainly remember that from reading the NIST report. The description of the elevator arrangement was rather detailed because it factored into several non-collapse-related areas of the report, such as the evacuation improvements made after the 1993 bombing attempt.
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:31 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErHfTQAvDnw

This thread is to discuss the testimony and views of the father of 9/11 victim Bobby McIlvaine, an Oreland Pennsylvania native who was murdered at age 26.
What testimony? He is just repeating stuff he heard on Loose Change. Its not like he worked in the towers and is saying "yea and we saw lotsa black ops ninjas installing spolsives and we were all like wtf and then the towers just don sploaded!"
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Please link to an article, a confession, a video, anything that would indicate that there is a single human being alive that doesn't believe there were explosions in NYC on 9/11.


Just one.
Clayton...this was directed at you.
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
This thread is to discuss the testimony and views of the father of 9/11 victim Bobby McIlvaine, an Oreland Pennsylvania native who was murdered at age 26.
Some impressive credentials there.

My grandmother died of pneumonia, which means I'm now an expert in pulmonary disease.
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:53 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Edx View Post
What testimony? He is just repeating stuff he heard on Loose Change. Its not like he worked in the towers and is saying "yea and we saw lotsa black ops ninjas installing spolsives and we were all like wtf and then the towers just don sploaded!"
You speak fluent Trutherese!
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:57 PM   #30
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Some guy I have never heard of and whose only credientials are that he lost someone in the attack thinks the government did it.

That's it, I'm totally sold on trutherism now.
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Old 8th June 2012, 01:01 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
There were two elevators in both buildings that ran the whole length. The freight elevator and express elevator exploded in back drafts a few minutes apart. Naudet recounts coming in and finding burning bodies on the floor. This is consistant with a back draft in an area filled with hot jet fuel. FAIL.
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Old 8th June 2012, 01:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by thedopefishlives View Post
Did you even read your own link? There were EXPRESS ELEVATORS that went to each of the sky lobbies. Care to guess which elevator shaft(s) the fireball came down?
Phfffttt... Reading stuff is for the Government Truther BeDunkers©®‽. Real Truthers all know from mere intuition what really happened.
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Old 8th June 2012, 01:02 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
I put Clayton Moore
On "Ignore".
I now confess
I get Clayton Less.


Eta: And nominated.

Last edited by Bell; 8th June 2012 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 8th June 2012, 01:09 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep View Post
Some guy I have never heard of and whose only credientials are that he lost someone in the attack thinks the government did it.

That's it, I'm totally sold on trutherism now.
Me too. The government must have done it. How else could a person caught in a collapsing, burning building be so badly injured? I feel deeply for the family of the victim. I too have lost some one in a disaster, but this is just silly.
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Old 8th June 2012, 01:20 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Me too. The government must have done it. How else could a person caught in a collapsing, burning building be so badly injured? I feel deeply for the family of the victim. I too have lost some one in a disaster, but this is just silly.
The way I understand it I don't think he was in the building when it collapsed. Am I wrong? I thought they found him pre-collapse in the lobby. That was how they were able to recover his body.
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Old 8th June 2012, 03:03 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
I don't even know where to start with the stupid presented here.
"Clayton Moore" about covers it.
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Old 8th June 2012, 03:13 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErHfTQAvDnw

This thread is to discuss the testimony and views of the father of 9/11 victim Bobby McIlvaine, an Oreland Pennsylvania native who was murdered at age 26.

The injuries to his son and other victims will be discussed.


http://www.infowars.com/wtc-bone-fra...ade-after-911/
Gee, I wonder what kind of explosions could be responsible for this... maybe a couple of high speed Boeings with 10,000 gallons of fuel on board crashing in to the towers?

Nah... must not be.



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Old 8th June 2012, 04:01 PM   #38
Clayton Moore
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Originally Posted by thedopefishlives View Post
Did you even read your own link? There were EXPRESS ELEVATORS that went to each of the sky lobbies. Care to guess which elevator shaft(s) the fireball came down?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_lobby

The WTC sky lobby was on the 78th floor of the North building. Bobby McIlvaine
was murdered in the North building.
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Old 8th June 2012, 04:10 PM   #39
plague311
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_lobby

The WTC sky lobby was on the 78th floor of the North building. Bobby McIlvaine
was murdered in the North building.
Either you aren't saying what you mean to say, or you aren't understanding what you're actually saying. The fireball went down the elevator shaft and blew out several floors along the way, including the lobby. When it hit the lobby a lot of glass also blew out, along with the elevator doors, and a few marble tiles.

The glass explains the mass amount of cuts he had, and anyone piece of the flying debris could be responsible for his other wounds.

This is a tragic loss, no doubt about that. However, there's nothing dubious about it (other than terrorists killing thousands of our citizens). Maybe nefarious would be a better word....
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Old 8th June 2012, 04:13 PM   #40
332nd
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_lobby

(One of)The WTC sky lobbies was on the 78th floor of the North building. Bobby McIlvaine
was murdered in the North building.
Ftfy.

Oh btw.


http://science.howstuffworks.com/eng...tural/wtc2.htm
https://sites.google.com/site/911sto...elevatorshafts
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Last edited by 332nd; 8th June 2012 at 04:18 PM.
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