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Old 13th July 2012, 04:26 AM   #1
bit_pattern
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Is polyamory "morally corrupt"?

Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
This is a bit odd too .
Secret minutes of a meeting on June 30 also revealed that the leadership of the Australian Young Greens party wanted to push for a public debate on polyamorous marriage, which allows people to have several wives or husbands.
The party of the morally corrupt.
So, the question is, why is it morally corrupt to discuss the merits of familial relations that don't fit with the model of the so-called 'traditional' family structure? Is this just a religious hang-up, to define an individuals decisions on who they love a matter of morality? How do you think a modern day sceptic could justify having such 'moral' concerns over how people negotiate human relations?

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Old 13th July 2012, 04:32 AM   #2
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One piece of useful advice my dad gave me was "beware moralists, they have nothing to add to any conversation".
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Old 13th July 2012, 04:46 AM   #3
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One wonders why the meeting minutes needed to be secret. One also assumes that the push for the debate was buried by the quorum and perhaps a disgruntled supporter of the debate leaked them.

Curious anyway.

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Old 13th July 2012, 04:50 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
One wonders why the meeting minutes needed to be secret. One also assumes that the push for the debate was buried by the quorum and perhaps a disgruntled supporter of the debate leaked them.

Curious anyway.
That's not the question. Is it morally corrupt and if so why?
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Old 13th July 2012, 04:54 AM   #5
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What exactly does it mean for polyamory to be "morally corrupt" anyway? Are we anthropomorphizing polyamory, regarding it as a person who should be able to act in a moral fashion but chooses not to?
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:02 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
That's not the question. Is it morally corrupt and if so why?
In actual fact, the "morally corrupt" was a comment summarising the whole post and the Greens in general (you know 800 deaths at sea and all that? remember them?), not just the snippet that has been provided above.

Is your wife keen on another man in the relationship LK?

I've been barking up the third woman tree in my marriage - my wife isn't up for it sadly. Another dirty schoolboy dream dashed.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:03 AM   #7
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Your claim can be seen by everyone. I don't blame you for back peddling. It would be far more honest to say "I was wrong, I can't support that contention".
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:09 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Your claim can be seen by everyone. I don't blame you for back peddling. It would be far more honest to say "I was wrong, I can't support that contention".
Meh. If that were the case I would do so. Whether you believe me or not - it doesn't bother me. I am more than comfortable with the thread - in fact I think it will be very enlightening. A poll would have been more revealing though I think.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:23 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
One wonders why the meeting minutes needed to be secret. One also assumes that the push for the debate was buried by the quorum and perhaps a disgruntled supporter of the debate leaked them.

Curious anyway.
Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
In actual fact, the "morally corrupt" was a comment summarising the whole post and the Greens in general (you know 800 deaths at sea and all that? remember them?), not just the snippet that has been provided above.

Is your wife keen on another man in the relationship LK?

I've been barking up the third woman tree in my marriage - my wife isn't up for it sadly. Another dirty schoolboy dream dashed.
Please don't derail this thread. If you can't keep OT then just don't participate.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:25 AM   #10
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It really is a schoolboy's fantasy though don't you think? - and most men's I would venture.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:25 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
So, the question is, why is it morally corrupt to discuss the merits of familial relations that don't fit with the model of the so-called 'traditional' family structure? Is this just a religious hang-up, to define an individuals decisions on who they love a matter of morality? How do you think a modern day sceptic could justify having such 'moral' concerns over how people negotiate human relations?
I think he is objecting to the idea of public debate not polyamory.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:26 AM   #12
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:29 AM   #13
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Cool

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I think he is objecting to the idea of public debate not polyamory.
Yes.

Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
So, the question is, why is it morally corrupt to discuss the merits of familial relations that don't fit with the model of the so-called 'traditional' family structure?
Now we're all on the same page do you want to take a stab at answering the question?
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
That's not the question. Is it morally corrupt and if so why?
No.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
It really is a schoolboy's fantasy though don't you think? - and most men's I would venture.
No. I don't think. I know people, men and women, who have polyamorous relationships. So, on topic, why do you believe that an individual deciding to love other individuals (in the plural), or discussing the merits of recognising such relations in society, is morally corrupt?
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:34 AM   #16
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To further the question, how many have sounded out their partner about the inclusion of others?

I admit it, we have.

We didn't discuss another in the marriage though, which was the topic this political party put up for debate. Three in a marriage. Mormon's do that don't they, Moslems too?
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:38 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
Moslems too?
And, bingo, we have a name-o. I had a feeling that's where this was leading...
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:40 AM   #18
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if all involved parties agree on it, there is no problem with it for me.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:43 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
To further the question, how many have sounded out their partner about the inclusion of others?

I admit it, we have.

We didn't discuss another in the marriage though, which was the topic this political party put up for debate. Three in a marriage. Mormon's do that don't they, Moslems too?
Mormon's what?

And you will find that the the Church of the Latter Day Saints have not endorsed polygamy for decades.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:44 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Mormon's what?

And you will find that the the Church of the Latter Day Saints have not endorsed polygamy for decades.
Thanks. I really had no idea hence my question mark.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:45 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
if all involved parties agree on it, there is no problem with it for me.
Labor, Liberal, The Greens, Family First, The Nats, Bob Katter's Australia Party, etc...?

I really can't see them all coming to the party.

Perhaps we could put our car keys in the ash tray instead?
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:45 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie
It really is a schoolboy's fantasy though don't you think? - and most men's I would venture.
Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
No. I don't think. I know people, men and women, who have polyamorous relationships. So, on topic, why do you believe that an individual deciding to love other individuals (in the plural), or discussing the merits of recognising such relations in society, is morally corrupt?
I would say you are both right. Polyamory -- more accurately polyginy, -- is in fact a schoolboy's fantasy, although most men grow out of it. Real-life polyamory, at least the kind I am familiar with (as in, know people involved), is not all that exciting.

A bit off-topic. Reminds me of this quote I saw few years ago:

"Vast majority of Western literature and film would fall apart if we dropped the assumption that it is only possible and/or desirable to love one person at a time"
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:48 AM   #23
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Morally corrupt, I don't think so, just too exhausting. I can barely keep up with the one wife I do have. And think of all those tax returns, yikes! If everyone involved is over 18 and not being forced, what's the harm? These type of relationships don't seem to work in the long-term (unless it religious based, cause then "you ain't goin' nowhere") because of a human trait that can't be avoided....jealousy.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:50 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
Labor, Liberal, The Greens, Family First, The Nats, Bob Katter's Australia Party, etc...?

I really can't see them all coming to the party.

Perhaps we could put our car keys in the ash tray instead?
an attempt to make a joke? or is that expression not used downunder?
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:50 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Mark6 View Post
I would say you are both right. Polyamory -- more accurately polyginy, -- is in fact a schoolboy's fantasy, although most men grow out of it.
Do you really think we do? I would love a poll on that - I reckon most blokes still hold some fantasy in that regard.
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Old 13th July 2012, 05:51 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
an attempt to make a joke? or is that expression not used downunder?
What does it mean where you come from?
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Old 13th July 2012, 06:20 AM   #27
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I'm betting on a friend to hit this thread and have something useful to say.

Myself, I don't see anything wrong with it if all adults understand the relationship and how they're involved. The only problem is that inevitably people have a desire to be "more" than the other person, have a desire to be the "favorite" and "special".

"I love you all the best" doesn't really cut it when that happens.
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Old 13th July 2012, 06:36 AM   #28
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As a British judge once commented when refusing to send a bigamist to jail:

“The penalty for bigamy is two mothers in law”.

I guess that applies to any form of multiple marriage - only worse.

Personally, I go with Alt+F4.

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Old 13th July 2012, 06:50 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
What does it mean where you come from?
all involved parties, means that all the people that are involved in a case of polyamory.
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Old 13th July 2012, 06:56 AM   #30
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Polyamory is not morally corrupt, if the participants know their rights (or lack thereof) in advance before joining the group relationship, if there is no discrimination between rights of genders (for example: one man vs. many women allowed, but not vice versa), and if they have the liberty to leave the group if they so wish.

/thread

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Old 13th July 2012, 07:06 AM   #31
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It's all about context. In a culture where the line of succession is an important aspect of the society, it makes sense for it to be considered morally corrupt. In a purely meritocratic culture, it shouldn't make any difference. But it does, because some things are hard for a culture to unlearn.
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Old 13th July 2012, 07:30 AM   #32
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There's nothing immoral about polyandry. The only problems with it are logistical. If those who want poly-marriage legalized can work out the legalities in a standardized manner that works for all group sizes, configurations, and foreseeable situations then I say they should be legal.
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Old 13th July 2012, 07:30 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by A.A. Alfie View Post
Meh. If that were the case I would do so. Whether you believe me or not - it doesn't bother me.
I think you should either support the contention or withdraw it. Making it, and then refusing to say whether you actually believe it or not is cowardly.
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Old 13th July 2012, 07:34 AM   #34
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The simple answer is no.

Why one would want to marry more than one person is a good question though. These kinds of relationships tend to be hard to keep together and require a particular kind of personality that most people don't have.
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Old 13th July 2012, 07:52 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
These type of relationships don't seem to work in the long-term (unless it religious based, cause then "you ain't goin' nowhere") because of a human trait that can't be avoided....jealousy.
I think it "works" a lot more often than you suspect.
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Old 13th July 2012, 07:54 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Monketey Ghost View Post
I'm betting on a friend to hit this thread and have something useful to say.

Myself, I don't see anything wrong with it if all adults understand the relationship and how they're involved. The only problem is that inevitably people have a desire to be "more" than the other person, have a desire to be the "favorite" and "special".

"I love you all the best" doesn't really cut it when that happens.
"Inevitably"?
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Old 13th July 2012, 08:01 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by ZirconBlue View Post
"Inevitably"?

According to my admittedly small understanding of human nature. Same reason Communism doesn't work: people want to own things. Sometimes it's other people, to whatever extent they can.
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Old 13th July 2012, 08:11 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by NewtonTrino View Post
The simple answer is no.

Why one would want to marry more than one person is a good question though. These kinds of relationships tend to be hard to keep together and require a particular kind of personality that most people don't have.
Looking at real world divorce rates, you might say the same of current marriages ...
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Old 13th July 2012, 08:14 AM   #39
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Polyamory is just as moral as monamory, therefore polyamory is not morally corrupt.
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Old 13th July 2012, 08:49 AM   #40
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Adults want to form their own families based on what works for them, with no coercion, I say have at at.
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