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Tags D.I.D. , Dr. Phil , false memory syndrome , Judy Byington , mind control , mpd , multiple personalities , recovered memory therapy , satanic ritual abuse

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Old 27th November 2012, 12:40 PM   #961
douglas mesner
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Am I reading this correctly, that "Felicity Lee," the tireless defender of children against Satanic Ritual Abuse...writes bondage porn??
She was very slow to respond the revelation on Amazon, but after a lengthy deliberation, she is doing what we've come to count on her to do -- denying everything while accusing me of heinous dark doings based on no evidence at all -- in this case she has suddenly decided that I'm surfing child porn! http://www.amazon.com/review/R1GR9B6...x3MDZ7TB1RREAF
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Old 27th November 2012, 01:37 PM   #962
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Quote:
Now I see that you author cheap bondage porn erotica, and your bizarre behavior takes on a whole new disturbing meaning. Is it possible that themes as depraved as these prove arousing to you, Lori?
You know, I think that we should be incredibly wary of implying that BDSM is "depraved" or in any way wrong in and of itself. I don't think that that will help anybody with anything. I'm not even sure what "outing" Felicity with her real name is supposed to achieve. Or, indeed, what the majority of the childish squabbling that the Amazon review comments has turned in to is supposed to achieve.

I think it's worth everybody taking a step back, taking a deep breath, and remembering that the point of the exercise is to provide information to uninformed spectators so that they can make informed decisions about the book and the contents thereof. It's to reduce the harm that this book and the industry that it's a part of cause. I don't see how anything that's been posted over there recently is supposed to accomplish that. Both sides seem as bad as each other.
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Old 27th November 2012, 01:49 PM   #963
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You know, I think that we should be incredibly wary of implying that BDSM is "depraved" or in any way wrong in and of itself. I don't think that that will help anybody with anything. I'm not even sure what "outing" Felicity with her real name is supposed to achieve. Or, indeed, what the majority of the childish squabbling that the Amazon review comments has turned in to is supposed to achieve.

I think it's worth everybody taking a step back, taking a deep breath, and remembering that the point of the exercise is to provide information to uninformed spectators so that they can make informed decisions about the book and the contents thereof. It's to reduce the harm that this book and the industry that it's a part of cause. I don't see how anything that's been posted over there recently is supposed to accomplish that. Both sides seem as bad as each other.
Allow me to be clear. I'm NOT saying that such fetish porn is in and of itself depraved. It's as I said previously, it's disturbing:

"Not because it's bondage porn, but because of the context it's given now that we know it is this particular author. It's disturbing in the way Rick Santorum being gay is disturbing: in a mentally disturbed ridiculously hypocritical self-deceiving way. It's disturbing in the context of knowing the author to be obsessed with fantastic stories of depraved child torture."

This is a woman who has done everything to affiliate critical commenters with her own pious ideas of "depraved". This is somebody who obviously isn't simply living out a healthy private sexual life in addition to DID advocacy. This is somebody with an extremely twisted cognitive dissonance that is not at all at ease with who she is. This is a woman who has based all of her "arguments" not at all on facts or evidence, but the idea that she is without fault, a paragon of virtue. This is somebody who seems to imply that alternative religion, secretive private practices, are the work of agenda-driven satanists. This is somebody who floods the comments, not with legitimate arguments, but masses of superfluous text meant to bury the criticisms. The arguments have been laid out again and again. Again and again she has tried to turn the argument into who we, the critics are. She has held up this idea that her only interest is in helping those who have suffered abuse. I think it is entirely fair game to point out that she herself seems to have a fetish for abuse.

[And further, if it happens that an interest in 22 Faces is based upon BDSM fetishism, it most certainly is depraved -- more so when one absolutely insists upon the reality of the story. It does, after all, involve children and murder]

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Old 27th November 2012, 02:16 PM   #964
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Originally Posted by douglas mesner View Post
Again and again she has tried to turn the argument into who we, the critics are. She has held up this idea that her only interest is in helping those who have suffered abuse. I think it is entirely fair game to point out that she herself seems to have a fetish for abuse.
I think that depends on what your aim in posting is. From my perspective it looks like descending to their level. We're supposed to be better than the squabbling.

Again, remember that the point is to inform potentially vulnerable people, and that doing so well may save lives. So let them rant and rave, and don't follow suit.
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Old 27th November 2012, 02:18 PM   #965
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You know, I think that we should be incredibly wary of implying that BDSM is "depraved" or in any way wrong in and of itself. I don't think that that will help anybody with anything. I'm not even sure what "outing" Felicity with her real name is supposed to achieve. Or, indeed, what the majority of the childish squabbling that the Amazon review comments has turned in to is supposed to achieve.

I think it's worth everybody taking a step back, taking a deep breath, and remembering that the point of the exercise is to provide information to uninformed spectators so that they can make informed decisions about the book and the contents thereof. It's to reduce the harm that this book and the industry that it's a part of cause. I don't see how anything that's been posted over there recently is supposed to accomplish that. Both sides seem as bad as each other.
I am very much for each her own. I don't happen to like 50 Shades and all the mutations it has spawned, but that has more to do with the horrific writing. Give me Anas Nin or Iris Murdoch...I'd curl up with them any day.

What has to be taken into context here is what many of these DID/trauma "therapists" are actually doing to their patients. They are in fact writing porn narratives on the minds of their unknowing patients...narratives so horrible that they drive some women to suicide. The few women who do make it out of this therapy will tell you that these therapists seemed to have a salacious fascination with the details of sex and/or abuse. They author a movie script and play it over and over with these women in living color, often for YEARS as a time.

The rape that is alleged here might well be very real to Jenny now. I cringe to watch that video. Judy, it is clear, is forcing a narrative on Jenny and Jenny has absorbed the details to a point she is terrified. That's what these therapists do. They make horrible rape and torture a real part of their victims' pasts.

I find it concerning that Felicity was obsessed with her idea that Doug was ritually abused and that she would be potentially interacting with vulnerable women on a website that claims to help people. If she were doing anything else, I'd say, have at it, lady, have a field day on your narratives, I really don't give a rat's ass...but when those narratives are forced upon others as she tried to do with Doug and as Judy did with Jenny is when I question what is being done in the name of "therapy".
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Old 27th November 2012, 02:29 PM   #966
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I think that depends on what your aim in posting is. From my perspective it looks like descending to their level. We're supposed to be better than the squabbling.

Again, remember that the point is to inform potentially vulnerable people, and that doing so well may save lives. So let them rant and rave, and don't follow suit.
Yeah, perhaps we can be clearer on this issue and why such a thing might be relevant. I admit to now harboring a visceral loathing for "Felicity" after her barrage of bizarre accusations and flat lies attempting to discredit the evidence that Judy Byington is lying about being a consultant for the Utah Attorney General's Office. have to keep in mind that some people might see that thread in isolation and wonder why some prigs are giving a lady a hard time about writing porn.
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Old 27th November 2012, 02:39 PM   #967
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Originally Posted by douglas mesner View Post
have to keep in mind that some people might see that thread in isolation and wonder why some prigs are giving a lady a hard time about writing porn.
That's exactly my concern. And not just about the porn, but every time I dip in to one of those threads it seems like a continuation of an argument from somewhere else, and to have deteriorated the way that internet arguments invariably do. Were I coming to the thread without any prior knowledge, I'd think that both sides were as bad as each other, and I certainly wouldn't find anything to change any opinion that I had previously held.

Again, I'd suggest that our model for this kind of discourse should be Robert Lancaster and his StopSylvia site. That, to me, seems to be the most effective way of spreading this kind of message, rather than any form of attack.
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Old 27th November 2012, 03:51 PM   #968
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I have to agree with Altus, there is a sexually exploitative dimension to this "therapeitic" relationship. It seems to me that compelling the patient to recite the therapists sexual fantasies (regardless of the S&M component) rather approaches rape. Keep in mind that these therapists deal with children as well. One wonders what sort unhealthy sexual gratification the abuser gets from these recitations?
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Old 27th November 2012, 04:08 PM   #969
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As I read posts 966 through 968, the latest three as I begin writing this, I immediately thought about all the Alien-Abduction stories, in which the aliens seem interested only in genetic/sexual interactions or extractions. I wonder why this is....*

At the risk of a slight derail, do you think that in the case of Felicity, this might be the same thing, a way to project one's fantasy into a story not just on paper, but in the mind of another person? This would be domination indeed.



* Not only am I not a psychiatrist or psychologist, not only don't I play one on TV, but I am a proponent of the Groucho Marks school.

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Old 27th November 2012, 04:09 PM   #970
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Again, I'd suggest that our model for this kind of discourse should be Robert Lancaster and his StopSylvia site. That, to me, seems to be the most effective way of spreading this kind of message, rather than any form of attack.

Well Squeegee I can't compare Sylvia and Judy, I wouldn't know where to start.
My elderly mother is a big Sylvia fan and has given way too much money to Sylvia and I fear that I may read my mother's will some day, far into the future, and find that everything has been left to Sylvia, but apart from that I can't say that I feel a lot of anger towards the woman, she's a con artist, a crook, a liar.
I am a victim of the very medical fraud that Judy and Felicity and all DID/MPD recovered memory therapists have and are continuing to perpetrate on vulnerable people all over the world. The victims of this fraud generally deteriorate into insanity and often commit suicide. The families of those victims are generally destroyed, often the fathers are criminally charged and sometimes find themselves in prison or they commit suicide. More than money is lost and more than silly stories of speaking to the dead are involved.

I would like this to be a nice thread containing only logical arguments and rational discourse but I find myself to "close" to the subject to be that calm.
Of course you are right about how people may react to clicking on the "last page" of this thread and reading only the last few comments written by a few steady followers and I understand that. So Squeegee I will do my best not to gloat about the latest bits of ridiculous hypocracy that we have dug up exposing those DID therapists as something like, oh I don't know, something like drug abuse interventionists who secretly have major drug problems themselves and deal crack to children.
I am now putting on my rational argument cap and will try not to let you down, you do have a very good point.
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Old 27th November 2012, 04:20 PM   #971
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
As I read posts 966 through 968, the latest three as I begin writing this, I immediately thought about all the Alien-Abduction stories, in which the aliens seem interested only in genetic/sexual interactions or extractions. I wonder why this is....*

At the risk of a slight derail, do you think that in the case of Felicity, this might be the same thing, a way to project one's fantasy into a story not just on paper, but in the mind of another person? This would be domination indeed.
Regarding the sexual component of alien abduction narratives, check out this post on Dysgenics.com from last week. It's by a woman who suffered false memory coercion at the hands of a hypnotherapist (a Dr. of History) who made bizarre requests of her, such as asking for her unwashed panties to test for alien DNA. There was a sexual element to the narrative of the alien's experiments, but there was also a rather transparent sexual element to the "treatment" as well: http://www.dysgenics.com/2012/11/24/...nal-testimony/
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Old 27th November 2012, 04:27 PM   #972
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Originally Posted by Roma View Post
I would like this to be a nice thread containing only logical arguments and rational discourse but I find myself to "close" to the subject to be that calm.
Of course you are right about how people may react to clicking on the "last page" of this thread and reading only the last few comments written by a few steady followers and I understand that. So Squeegee I will do my best not to gloat about the latest bits of ridiculous hypocracy that we have dug up exposing those DID therapists as something like, oh I don't know, something like drug abuse interventionists who secretly have major drug problems themselves and deal crack to children.
I am now putting on my rational argument cap and will try not to let you down, you do have a very good point.
I don't mean this thread, so much. I would surmise that few people reading this thread wouldn't already fall on one side or the other of the debate. People will, generally speaking, find this thread if they specifically come looking for it. And, were they to read this thread and not know there is a wealth of information in this thread as it stands, and plenty of knowledgeable people posting here who can set them on the right path. So, actually, I don't see much of a problem with people posting whatever and however they want in this thread.

I was more specifically thinking of the comment threads to the reviews on Amazon and, indeed, any other more public places. Those are the comments that people who had never even heard of the Satanic Panic are likely to read, and it's people like that who may be at risk. Equally, you may get people who are starting to be drawn in to those kinds of stories who might be seeking out the book because of this. These are the people that I think it's important to reach. And, to that end, I think it's important to have a clear and civil message in mind when posting about this in public and, indeed, to constantly have in the back of our minds what the purpose of our speaking about this at all is - to educate those who might not otherwise be aware of the facts, and to minimise the harm that it can cause.
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Old 27th November 2012, 04:45 PM   #973
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Originally Posted by douglas mesner View Post
Regarding the sexual component of alien abduction narratives, check out this post on Dysgenics.com from last week. It's by a woman who suffered false memory coercion at the hands of a hypnotherapist (a Dr. of History) who made bizarre requests of her, such as asking for her unwashed panties to test for alien DNA. There was a sexual element to the narrative of the alien's experiments, but there was also a rather transparent sexual element to the "treatment" as well: http://www.dysgenics.com/2012/11/24/...nal-testimony/
There's also the third panel of the infamous "Turtleboy and Jet the Wonder Pup," which (one presumes) ostensibly depicts a scene of Satanic ritual abuse, but looks suspiciously like a porn scene between consenting adults. (The female in the image is clearly not a child in any biological sense of the word, and she appears to be rather, um, "into" the proceedings if what she's doing with her free hand is any indication.)

I'm hardly a prude, but I can't even imagine what kind of mind could derive sexual gratification from making others believe they've undergone horrific childhood tortures at the hands of their loved ones. What are these people thinking?
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Old 27th November 2012, 05:07 PM   #974
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
There's also the third panel of the infamous "Turtleboy and Jet the Wonder Pup," which (one presumes) ostensibly depicts a scene of Satanic ritual abuse, but looks suspiciously like a porn scene between consenting adults. (The female in the image is clearly not a child in any biological sense of the word, and she appears to be rather, um, "into" the proceedings if what she's doing with her free hand is any indication.)

I'm hardly a prude, but I can't even imagine what kind of mind could derive sexual gratification from making others believe they've undergone horrific childhood tortures at the hands of their loved ones. What are these people thinking?
Oddly, I've found that many of those who have come to identify themselves by the diagnosis of DID try to use the horror of Satanic Ritual Abuse narratives themselves as "evidence" that those stories are true. After all, who could possibly conceive of such a thing if it weren't true, and why would anybody want to continue to believe it if the evidence against it were compelling? Setting aside the fact that it is already quite clear that many of them want -- in fact are desperate to -- believe it, and it isn't up to anybody else to determine WHY, we nonetheless see uncomfortable motivators in the expression repressed sexuality that allows for the telling of the most explicit tales of torture porn, while allowing the author to maintain (and indeed increase) an image of untarnished piety. This overlaps, of course, with the psychology of spirit possession -- a phenomenon that has been known to arise in repressed environments allowing the "possessed" to act out spastic fits of vulgarity and dis-inhibition while in many cases actually increasing social status.
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Old 27th November 2012, 05:12 PM   #975
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I think that depends on what your aim in posting is. From my perspective it looks like descending to their level. We're supposed to be better than the squabbling.

Again, remember that the point is to inform potentially vulnerable people, and that doing so well may save lives. So let them rant and rave, and don't follow suit.
There exists the very real possibility that my "evidence" is incorrect. That there are two people with the same name and that they are linked by a number of common interests. And one bizarrely kept showing as a suggested book when I went on the 22 site. I have just communicated with whomever goes by Felicity and took my post down on Amazon and asked her to apologize to the woman by the same name as the author, who is a good friend of hers. She thanked me. Now, does anyone know how I can get a moderator to remove my post and the other post that quotes it? It's past edit time.

Geeze learning this cognitive bias stuff can be humbling. But when you may be wrong, no point in trying to spin it.
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Old 27th November 2012, 05:27 PM   #976
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Originally Posted by Altus View Post
There exists the very real possibility that my "evidence" is incorrect

[...] Now, does anyone know how I can get a moderator to remove my post and the other post that quotes it? It's past edit time.

Geeze learning this cognitive bias stuff can be humbling. But when you may be wrong, no point in trying to spin it.
Thanks for correcting yourself. You're right: When you're wrong, you're wrong.

I think you can ask any moderator to remove your posts-or to delete the content and add a note that the author (that's you) asked for it to be removed because it was in error.


However, your error does not negate the observation I made about Alien Abduction stories, nor the posts that Douglas Mesner made about the sexuality themes. ETA, not a flame, just a statement of my point.

Edited yet again: Does anyone have any idea whether Dr. Phil's staff or the staff of the network are reading this? That would be an interesting datum point, don't you think?

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Old 27th November 2012, 05:44 PM   #977
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
Edited yet again: Does anyone have any idea whether Dr. Phil's staff or the staff of the network are reading this? That would be an interesting datum point, don't you think?
The Dr. Phil thing seems to be all confusion at this point. They've apparently put off the show, and they still haven't scheduled an airing date, but they've also failed to say that they AREN'T going to air the show. It seems they've put it off without writing it off. I tend to think that the more time passes, the less likely the show becomes... especially with Judy making a fool of herself all over the internet.
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Old 27th November 2012, 05:57 PM   #978
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
Thanks for correcting yourself. You're right: When you're wrong, you're wrong.

I think you can ask any moderator to remove your posts-or to delete the content and add a note that the author (that's you) asked for it to be removed because it was in error.


However, your error does not negate the observation I made about Alien Abduction stories, nor the posts that Douglas Mesner made about the sexuality themes. ETA, not a flame, just a statement of my point.
Believe me, I don't take it as a flame at all. My feeling is, we can't cite lack of evidence and then hold up evidence that has a chance of being incorrect, even if it appears highly probable. There were a couple of things about it that made me question it in retrospect. If I spun it, I'd be as bad as the folks with whom I am taking issue.

I do not negate your observations either. In fact, I agree with them.
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Old 28th November 2012, 01:21 PM   #979
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This FMSF Newsletter contains a great article about the Greenbaum Speech of Corydon Hammond from which Judy derived elements of her own infantile conspiracy theory: http://www.fmsfonline.org/fmsf05.830.html
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Old 28th November 2012, 03:29 PM   #980
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The article in the newsletter contains this statement [emphasis mine]:

'The "misrepresentation" by Prime Time Live included the scene in its program "Devilish Deeds," January 7, 1993, where Professor Hammond said that therapists are not responsible for verifying the information they teach in workshops.'

Assuming that the statement is correct; that Hammond is quoted accurately; that Hammond was referring to information on whether and how to conduct therapy, not on whether a Satanic cult exists, then the following inferences can be made:

1. Professor Hammond was acting irresponsibly in making that statement.

2. Professor Hammond was acting unethically in making that statement.

3. Any therapist who follows the advice given, who does not verify that the information they teach is equally irresponsible and unethical.

4. If Professor Hammond was at the time a member of an organization of professional therapists, that organization should have censured him. (Apparently he was: the American Psychological Association.)

5. If he held from the State of Utah a license to practice psychological or psychiatric therapy, the State of Utah should have been the recipient of at least one complaint -- whether it was or not, I have not investigated. But thanks to Orphia Nay, the link to the professional complaints online database has been posted.

6. If Judy Byington operates under the same methodology -- treatment without investigation, therapy based on false premises -- she is as guilty as he is. More, because Hammond " In the course of the story it becomes apparent that Dr. Hammond was already in 1993 trying to distance himself from his own words." [quoted from footnote 10 the link given above.]

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Old 28th November 2012, 03:50 PM   #981
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
In the course of the story it becomes apparent that Dr. Hammond was already in 1993 trying to distance himself from his own words." [quoted from footnote 10 the link given above.]

xterra
Way back in 2004, before I had any real sense of all this at all, before I had any sense of false memories and therapeutic coercion, and I was just some lad trying to decipher the meaning and reliability of many of these claims, I began reading these extremely bizarre stories about The Process -- a cult that Hammond mentions in the Greenbaum Speech. Eventually, I would interview the people who actually made up The Process itself, but at that time I was more or less agnostic regarding what the facts would reveal. I emailed Hammond and asked:

>Why have you ended the cult research? Do you feel that the information
> >was flawed? Do you feel that it was too dangerous? Did you grow tired of
> >trying to convince others that something was amiss, or were there other
> >reasons?

This was his remarkable reply:

>I never really did cult research, but simply worked with some patients and
>consulted with other therapists who were working with them. By the latter
>part of 1992 I could see that it was becoming controversial and possibly an
>area of liability. It was exhausting, difficult work. Since it had never
>been more than a small part of my practice, I decided, why am I working
>this hard for the money when there are several other areas of specialty
>that I have where the work is much less gut-wrenching and the problems have
>a much more favorable prognosis than persons with extensive abuse histories?
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Old 28th November 2012, 04:17 PM   #982
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Douglas

Whatever Hammond's reasons for engaging in, and subsequently withdrawing from, therapy in this area, my comments about the statement I quoted, especially the part in bold, remain true:

To say that therapists or other instructors are not responsible for verifying the accuracy of the information they teach is irresponsible.

If I had done that in my college-teaching career, I wouldn't have had one, not for very long, anyway.

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Old 28th November 2012, 04:25 PM   #983
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
Douglas, whatever Hammond's reasons for engaging in, and subsequently withdrawing from, therapy in this area, my comments about the statement I quoted, especially the part in bold, remain true:

To say that therapists or other instructors are not responsible for verifying the accuracy they teach is irresponsible. If I had done that in my college-teaching career, I wouldn't have had one.
I agree entirely. Ironically, Byington (aka Weindorf) claims at the beginning of 22 Faces that Hammond "verified" the existence of Greenbaum, demonstrating that she doesn't really know the meaning of the word at all.
I think Hammond's reply to me is remarkable, not as a refutation of his clear irresponsibility, but when it's juxtaposed against the bold statements made in the Greenbaum speech -- all his tough-guy posturing that, dammit, he's going to speak out, and if the Satanists come after him, well, he'll deal with it. By 2004, he's essentially saying that it's not making money, it's liability, and he's out. Does this sound like a man who feels it's him against the Satanic "Them" who threaten to devour our minds if we don't now take a stand? (<=== Rhetorical question for the readership, of course.)

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Old 28th November 2012, 04:48 PM   #984
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That response of his says alot about his integrity.
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Old 28th November 2012, 06:15 PM   #985
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Here's another article about Byington's book....

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slackti...satanic-panic/
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Old 28th November 2012, 06:42 PM   #986
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Great info on Hammond and "Dr. Green", Doug. Good to see that Kerr Cuhulain's article on Witchvox on the subject can be supported.

Unfortunately, now I'm down the rabbit hole of David Shurter's Rabbit Hole. If I'm reading hsi blog right he's implicating Michael Aquino of the temple of Set in his SRA claims.

I'm sure you've all seen by now Judy's latest post. She's going to publish some letter of support from a former Lt Utah AG, Reed M. Richards, and is claiming that she's had an 8 hour consultation with the AG's office, and that she "consults with them to this very day."

Can you imagine 8 hours of having to sit through her whackadoodle garbage?
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Old 28th November 2012, 06:51 PM   #987
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I've heard of David Shurter, I wish I could remember in what context. Is he one of Noreen Gosch's dodgy friends?
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Old 28th November 2012, 08:00 PM   #988
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Here's another interesting link on the subject, but if Judy Byinton is still reading she shouldn't open it. I have it on good authority that whenever a true Christian clicks on this link a demon jumps out of the computer at them...

http://theisticsatanism.com/asp/sra.html#culture
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Old 29th November 2012, 01:30 AM   #989
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Originally Posted by ac2012 View Post
Great info on Hammond and "Dr. Green", Doug. Good to see that Kerr Cuhulain's article on Witchvox on the subject can be supported.

Unfortunately, now I'm down the rabbit hole of David Shurter's Rabbit Hole. If I'm reading hsi blog right he's implicating Michael Aquino of the temple of Set in his SRA claims.

I'm sure you've all seen by now Judy's latest post. She's going to publish some letter of support from a former Lt Utah AG, Reed M. Richards, and is claiming that she's had an 8 hour consultation with the AG's office, and that she "consults with them to this very day."

Can you imagine 8 hours of having to sit through her whackadoodle garbage?
Do you have Shurter's book?
I'll contact Reed Richards, see what he has to say about this.
Here's a nice summary of the Ritual Abuse investigations in Utah in the '90s: http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_rep04.htm (see the hyperlink within this link to find an analysis of the Utah task force's report)
Even the grossly irresponsible ABC4 coverage of 22 Faces still at least mentioned something Judy never does -- the investigations amounted to nothing except for strong suspicions that the reports of the abuse were the result of paranoid conspiracies passed on from ignorant and/or idiotic therapists.
It is quite possible that Richards spoke to Judy in the course of this investigation, as I'm sure she was involved in the panic then (and she hasn't grown up at all since). It's also possible (if you give her the benefit of the doubt) that she doesn't know what it means to be a "consultant" and actually thinks that being questioned in a dead-end investigation constitutes some type of official contract between herself and the AG's office. I say this gives her the benefit of the doubt because it exonerates her from willful deception, though it doesn't say much for her intelligence... which there clearly isn't much to be said for to begin with.
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Old 29th November 2012, 08:10 AM   #990
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Originally Posted by douglas mesner View Post
Do you have Shurter's book?
I'll contact Reed Richards, see what he has to say about this.
Here's a nice summary of the Ritual Abuse investigations in Utah in the '90s: (see the hyperlink within this link to find an analysis of the Utah task force's report)
Even the grossly irresponsible ABC4 coverage of 22 Faces still at least mentioned something Judy never does -- the investigations amounted to nothing except for strong suspicions that the reports of the abuse were the result of paranoid conspiracies passed on from ignorant and/or idiotic therapists.
It is quite possible that Richards spoke to Judy in the course of this investigation, as I'm sure she was involved in the panic then (and she hasn't grown up at all since). It's also possible (if you give her the benefit of the doubt) that she doesn't know what it means to be a "consultant" and actually thinks that being questioned in a dead-end investigation constitutes some type of official contract between herself and the AG's office. I say this gives her the benefit of the doubt because it exonerates her from willful deception, though it doesn't say much for her intelligence... which there clearly isn't much to be said for to begin with.
No, I haven't bought Shurter's book. I'm not compelled to spend the money as of yet, and I'm already wasting enough time on this stuff as is.

At his blog, I see a list of horrible things that all happened in Omaha in 1983. This is starting to look like "The Ultimate Evil" - a string of very tenuously connected, if at all - murders, rapes, disappearances, etc. Strawberry, I do believe he mentions Noreen Gosch or her son.

He seems like someone willing to converse, at least, from his postings on the amazon 22 Faces comments section. But who knows - he might go all "Felicity" if questioned too much. He mentioned "ample evidence" of SRA in his comments, so I'd like to know exactly what that is.

I also suspect that the times Judy has tried to insinuate herself in the Utah task force's investigations is enough to convince her she's a "consultant", and that's how she'll try to spin it. Richards's letter could even just be a "thank you for giving us your information, Regards" - but in her mind that means she's on staff.

Let us know what you come up with re: Reed Richards (sorry but I keep seeing the Fantastic Four in my mind's eye).
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Old 29th November 2012, 09:28 AM   #991
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Here's another interesting link on the subject, but if Judy Byinton is still reading she shouldn't open it. I have it on good authority that whenever a true Christian clicks on this link a demon jumps out of the computer at them...

http://theisticsatanism.com/asp/sra.html#culture
Good link. However, I'd like offer some info regarding a quote from the site:

"Although the SRA scare has been discredited in the eyes of the people who matter most (e.g. most police departments, social workers, psychotherapists, and relevant academic experts), there are lots of uneducated people who still do believe in SRA and Satanic conspiracy theories - which still do give rise to quite a bit of general cultural paranoia."

I'd take issue with the word "uneducated". There are MDs and PhDs attached to this, along with a lot of MSWs. The fact that Judy constantly pumps her connections to ISSTD, which is seen as credible in the psych community and which offers continuing ed credits to therapists as they get drawn into this conspiracy, is concerning. Again, an ISSTD member got DID to stay in the DSM, despite protests by a number of researchers. But here's what is more concerning:

A PANEL DISCUSSION (longer and more widely attended than a mere workshop) from their annual conference in Oct:

"Therapists Reporting Histories of Ritual Abuse Trauma: Preliminary Results on Beneficial and Detrimental Treatment Approaches Lacter, Sinason"

http://www.isst-d.org/annual_conference/2012/index.htm

(The "Integrating Science" at the top is interesting since their peer reviewed papers make it into so few respectable journals. That does not stop them from publishing for each other and appearing legit to the average MSW, who form the bulk of therapists in the USA.)

The 1,000+ member ISSTD, which could affect tens of thousands of patients with whom these therapists interact, does nothing to stop the Satanic Abuse conspiracy. In fact, it gives some people promoting it a high profile status. (Ross is another one who gets to pump his stuff with these folk.)
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Old 29th November 2012, 10:08 AM   #992
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Originally Posted by ac2012 View Post
I also suspect that the times Judy has tried to insinuate herself in the Utah task force's investigations is enough to convince her she's a "consultant", and that's how she'll try to spin it. Richards's letter could even just be a "thank you for giving us your information, Regards" - but in her mind that means she's on staff.
And yet, when asked, instead of attempting to elucidate her alleged role as might be expected in the above scenario she laughably claims that they are denying her role in order to maintain her undercover status (or self-servingly refers us to her next book).

Maybe she's truly delusional enough so that a part of her really believes she's a bona fide consultant but clearly there must be a part of her which understands to some degree how ridiculous she is being or else she would not be so evasive and absurd in her responses to inquiries about this.
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Old 29th November 2012, 02:48 PM   #993
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Originally Posted by ac2012 View Post
Unfortunately, now I'm down the rabbit hole of David Shurter's Rabbit Hole. If I'm reading hsi blog right he's implicating Michael Aquino of the temple of Set in his SRA claims.

I'm sure you've all seen by now Judy's latest post. She's going to publish some letter of support from a former Lt Utah AG, Reed M. Richards, and is claiming that she's had an 8 hour consultation with the AG's office, and that she "consults with them to this very day."
David is a broken person. I think he's got a restraining order out on him by his own mother. He just goes off. I was in a dentist chair yesterday reading Judy's reply to his post on my phone. No Jenny was not dead and no she, Judy, was not a Satanist, as David had written. The bizarre nature of the exchange had me suppressing laughter to the point of tears. When the woman working on me returned after a brief trip down the hall, I had to explain the tears were from nothing she had done to me.

Hopefully, Doug can get to the bottom of the Reed stuff. Saw the post that she "consults with them to this very day". In light of the AG statement, this is just mind-boggling. If Phil's folk are following this forum, I doubt they have any interest at this point in her stuff---wilder things have happened. But, she's pretty much trashed herself for all to see.

I do think Doug's article and this forum helped bring her antics to screeching halt and encouraged her to hang herself with her own words. She was getting a bewildering amount of coverage until the article and the forum...now, she's got one lie on her calendar about a library book signing today http://22faces.com/events-calendar/ The library in question does not have an event on their website calendar. http://www.viridiancenter.org/ev/index.htm
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Old 29th November 2012, 04:15 PM   #994
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Folks, we are not done with this, whatever happens to Judy Byington.

Altus included a reference to a paper by Sinason and Lacter. Here is a link to a book with a chapter by Sinason and another by Lacter:

http://tinyurl.com/bq3l2hd

Check the reviews; the first was written by a licensed clinical social worker, the second (I qupte from the signature on the review) by "Wanda Karriker, Ph.D. (Author of Morning, Come Quickly)"

xterra

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Old 29th November 2012, 04:15 PM   #995
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I see Judy's now, rather bizarrely, denying the contents of her own book. In 22 Faces Jenny Hill runs away from her for two years because she saw the "mark of Cain" on her and thought she was a Satanist. Yet on Amazon Judy claims Jenny never thought she was a Satanist.

I wish I could post on Amazon. Those of you who can post there, can you try and get her to say when exactly did she (or Jenny) report the eyewitness account of Kathleen Shea's murder, and to whom?
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Old 29th November 2012, 04:27 PM   #996
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
Folks, we are not done with this, whatever happens to Judy Byington.

Altus included a reference to a paper by Sinason and Lacter. Here is a link to a book with a chapter by Sinason and another by Lacter:

http://tinyurl.com/bq3l2hd

Check the reviews; the first was written by a licensed clinical social worker, the second (I qupte from the signature on the review) by "Wanda Karriker, Ph.D. (Author of Morning, Come Quickly)"

xterra
Interesting that one of the reviewers, Shamai Currim PhD, a therapist from Canada, also gave "22" 5-stars. This stuff travels the world and nobody in the profession calls these folks to task. They still practice and treat and teach others how to do so. They can literally earn credits listening to each others' conspiracies.
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Old 29th November 2012, 04:59 PM   #997
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Another score for the team!

Last night I emailed back to the Utah Attorney General's office about the following statement by Judy Byington:

"Another lie repeated over and over is that I have not been a consultant to the Utah AG office. If one is so concerned about that they will have to wait and read my next book, "Saints, Sinners and Satan." It goes into specific detail and includes copy of a 1994 support letter about that relationshp written by Utah Lieutenant Attorney General Reed Richards. He penned the letter after my 4 hour consult with him on 8 satanic covens the Utah AG office are following. I continue those consults with them today."

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1J8BMB...x2PEOMNMYTBNT9


This is the reply I received:

"Orphia, Byington's statement is a lie. She may have talked to Reed Richards in 1994. He has not been in our office since January, 2001. Byington does not consult with the Utah AG's Office on any subject. I am the division chief of the Children's Justice Division in the AG's office. My division prosecutes cases of child sexual abuse. If Byington had any relationship with our office, I would be the contact person and I would know of her involvement. I know with complete confidence that she does not have a relationship with our office either formally or informally."
Craig Barlow
Division Chief.

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Old 29th November 2012, 05:01 PM   #998
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
[size="2"]Folks, we are not done with this, whatever happens to Judy Byington.
I could not agree me, and I can't stress this enough. This asinine book, 22 Faces, is just a window into a larger -- much larger -- problem. The ISSTD likes to present itself with a veneer of scientific credibility, and tries to keep its lunacy buried as best it can, but 22 Faces -- with endorsements from ISSTD past presidents Colin Ross and Joyana Silberg, along with Judy's claim that Lacter and Sinason actually used the book in their co-presentation on Ritual Abuse at this year's ISSTD annual conference -- gives ample evidence, I think, that this anti-therapeutic, anti-rational, conspiracy-theory-driven quackery pervades dissociative studies. Outright delusional organizations like S.M.A.R.T. (Stop Mind-control And Ritual abuse Today) (...a tortured acronym if there ever was one) and Survivorship -- both headed up by a LICENSED THERAPIST, Neil Brick, who claims to have been a brain-washed Illuminati/Masonic/CIA assassin, peddle paranoia to the vulnerable in need of proper mental health care. I would love help in considering an action plan. I would like to forward a type of public policy initiative for which, perhaps with a high volume of signatories, we can pressure licensing boards to be rid of their delusion-mongering professional disgraces who have run rampant unchecked for far too long.
Who wants to talk tactic?
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Old 29th November 2012, 05:09 PM   #999
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post

"Orphia, Byington's statement is a lie. She may have talked to Reed Richards in 1994. He has not been in our office since January, 2001. Byington does not consult with the Utah AG's Office on any subject. I am the division chief of the Children's Justice Division in the AG's office. My division prosecutes cases of child sexual abuse. If Byington had any relationship with our office, I would be the contact person and I would know of her involvement. I know with complete confidence that she does not have a relationship with our office either formally or informally."
Craig Barlow
Division Chief.

Thanks Orphia. This is exactly as I suspected. I, too, emailed the AG's office, but they haven't replied to me yet, probably because I'm asking more of them. I acknowledge their previous email and even quote from it, but I inform them that Byington aka Weindorf nonetheless persists, and I provided a recent quote from Amazon. I wanted to know if they could do something more than just re-affirm by email. I asked if, as a citizen, one might file an official complaint on the basis that this smacks of opportunistic fraud designed to profit Byington in book sales and increased business to her Trauma Center.
I see that you forwarded the email to me. Thank you so much. I will place this one online as well for reference. I should also forward this on to Dr. Phil's people just to make clear, yet again, what they are tying their own credibility to.
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Old 29th November 2012, 05:22 PM   #1000
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Originally Posted by douglas mesner View Post
I could not agree me, and I can't stress this enough. This asinine book, 22 Faces, is just a window into a larger -- much larger -- problem. The ISSTD likes to present itself with a veneer of scientific credibility, and tries to keep its lunacy buried as best it can, but 22 Faces -- with endorsements from ISSTD past presidents Colin Ross and Joyana Silberg, along with Judy's claim that Lacter and Sinason actually used the book in their co-presentation on Ritual Abuse at this year's ISSTD annual conference -- gives ample evidence, I think, that this anti-therapeutic, anti-rational, conspiracy-theory-driven quackery pervades dissociative studies. Outright delusional organizations like S.M.A.R.T. (Stop Mind-control And Ritual abuse Today) (...a tortured acronym if there ever was one) and Survivorship -- both headed up by a LICENSED THERAPIST, Neil Brick, who claims to have been a brain-washed Illuminati/Masonic/CIA assassin, peddle paranoia to the vulnerable in need of proper mental health care. I would love help in considering an action plan. I would like to forward a type of public policy initiative for which, perhaps with a high volume of signatories, we can pressure licensing boards to be rid of their delusion-mongering professional disgraces who have run rampant unchecked for far too long.
Who wants to talk tactic?
Yes, let's talk tactics. We can already see on Amazon that this scam is by no means limited to the States. There are people giving favourable reviews from Australia, Canada and Britain, and I wouldn't be surprised if its going on in my own country, (Ireland), too.

Maybe we could start by getting together a list of all the regulatory bodies in the various countries which make up the english speaking world, if this hasn't been done already. Once we have contact details compiled for those who should be policing the professional therapists in their countries we can start with other ideas like petitions, letter writing or whatever else.
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